Episode 74: Paying Attention to Shifting Behaviors Can Lead to Increased Customer Satisfaction

Join us as we discuss rewriting your message to acknowledge current realities, the pros and cons of sharing your email address, and the perils of always being connected.

Binging, Auto-Adding, and Considering – Oh My!

[This Just Happened] Netflix Nailed It!

Joey and his two sons have a Saturday morning ritual. No matter what time the boys wake up, they all head to the basement (letting mom sleep in) for Saturday morning cartoons! In an effort to shake things up a bit, they recently started watching a show called Nailed It! on Netflix. On the show, home bakers with a poor track record in the kitchen seek redemption and cash by trying to re-creating edible masterpieces. Needless to say, hilarity ensues.

While the episode was certainly entertaining, the most interesting part of the show came at the end, just after the winner was announced. The hostess signed off the current episode by welcoming the viewers to the next episode. This was brilliant as it assumed that Joey and his sons would continue to watch more episodes! With on-demand availability, people are now watching more than one episode in a single sitting. In fact, many people binge-watch shows like Nailed It! Amazingly, Nailed It has acknowledged this behavioral shift and adjusted their programming accordingly.

How are you adjusting your offerings to take into consideration the tectonic shifts that are occurring in customer behavior? Are you considering your content release schedule and what your customers want vs. what’s easiest for you?

Joey Coleman, co-host of ExperienceThis! Show podcast

Sometimes, even if you are not an early adopter or raving fan of these shifting trends, you must realign your message with the present day realities of customer behavior. What are you doing to continuously evolve your offerings so that customers and prospects feel like you are taking their needs, wants, and behaviors into consideration? 

On that note, we want to make sure to take our listeners’ behaviors into consideration! Do you think we should release the entire season of ExperienceThis! Show once a week (like old TV), or all at once (like a Netflix show)? Please take 3 seconds to vote in the poll below and let us know!

Coming Soon
Do you think we should release the entire season of ExperienceThis! Show once a week (like we do currently), or all at once (like an entire season of your favorite TV show being released on Netflix or Amazon)?
Do you think we should release the entire season of ExperienceThis! Show once a week (like we do currently), or all at once (like an entire season of your favorite TV show being released on Netflix or Amazon)?
Do you think we should release the entire season of ExperienceThis! Show once a week (like we do currently), or all at once (like an entire season of your favorite TV show being released on Netflix or Amazon)?

[I Love It, I Can’t Stand It] Email Lists

Most people have a very complex relationship with email. On one hand, it helps us to do business in an increasingly digital age. On the other hand, our email inboxes are becoming more crowded by the minute! How your email is used and even abused by email lists is a topic for recipients and senders alike. When you give your email to someone, what they do with it can vary from actually using it to communicate, to adding you to one of many email distribution lists.

Things We Can’t Stand:

  • When someone we meet at an event adds us to their e-newsletter.
  • When companies share your email with third parties who in turn start marketing to you.
  • When you make a donation, and the cause/non-profit immediately starts emailing you for more donations.
  • When you want to access content on a website, you enter your email, and then a sales person starts reaching out to set up a call so they can pitch you.

Things We Love:

  • When people ask permission to introduce me to someone via email rather than in Messenger, or by text, or without asking!
  • When people are transparent about how many emails you will receive in the coming weeks after you provide your email for the first time.
  • When someone forwards you a newsletter and gives you the option of receiving more issues (instead of automatically subscribing you).
  • When people receive your email from a third party that you do have a relationship with, but acknowledge the mutual relationship when they send the first message.

Always consider the golden rule when you are dealing with email: Do unto others’ email as you would want done unto yours!

[Start the Conversation] Avtex: Employee Experience Matters Too

While having satisfied customers may seem to be the most important focus, if your employees aren’t having a good experience, your customers will suffer as well. CX leaders are often solely focused on their customers’ experience, but the truth is, the employee experience matters too. Failing to consider the employee experience can lead to unnecessary stress, frustration, and staff turnover, especially when the employees are asked to do too much with too little support.

Here are three ways to improve the employee experience:

  1. Ensuring the organization’s CX technologies and tools are capable of supporting employees and the CX strategy.
  2. Integrating commonly used technology platforms to streamline routine activities, such as customer data review or entry.
  3. Continually reviewing processes and policies to eliminate common pain points or roadblocks that negatively impact employees.

Start the conversation with this question: Are my employees given the tools and support they need to do their jobs and execute our CX strategy?

To continue the conversation, go to: experienceconversations.com.

[Book Report] Indistractible by Nir Eyal

The modern world is filled with distractions – most notably, the technology at our fingertips. In his book Indistractible: How to Control Your Attention and Choose Your Life, Nir Eyal addresses the hidden psychology that causes us to constantly be distracted. Interestingly enough, Nir’s first book was called Hooked, which addressed the four step process companies use to get customers “hooked” on their products. In Indistractible, Nir provides a way to break this ongoing, addictive cycle.

Now we should realize that distraction is not a new problem. But by understanding the root cause of distraction, the deeper psychology of why we go off track, we can make sure that we can get the best out of these technologies without letting them get the best of us.

Nir Eyal, author of Indistractible

An interesting aspect of this book, is that Nir doesn’t suggest technology abstinence. Instead, he suggests a four step process to help create boundaries, take back control over the distractions, and return balance in your life.

If you are ready to take control of your life again and establish some healthy boundaries for the role technology plays in your life, make sure to read Indistractible.

Links We Referenced

Host Contact Information

Tweet Dan Gingiss: @DGingiss

Email Joey: JoeyC@JoeyColeman.com



Subscribe to Experience This on Apple Podcasts

Episode Transcript

Download a transcript of the entire Episode 74 here or read it below:

Dan Gingiss: Welcome to Experience This.

Joey Coleman: Where you’ll find inspiring examples of customer experience, great stories of customer service, and tips on how to make your customers love you even more.

Dan Gingiss: Always upbeat and definitely entertaining, customer retention expert, Joey Coleman.

Joey Coleman: And social media expert, Dan Gingiss, serve as your hosts for a weekly dose of positive customer experience.

Dan Gingiss: Now hold onto your headphones. It’s time to Experience This!

Dan Gingiss: Get ready for another episode of the Experience This show.

Joey Coleman: Join us as we discuss scripting your message to acknowledge current realities, the pros and cons of sharing your email address, and the perils of always being connected.

Dan Gingiss: Binging, Auto Adding and Considering. Oh my!

[This Just Happened] Netflix Nailed it! (binge watching)

Joey Coleman: We love telling stories and sharing key insights you can implement or avoid based on our experiences. Can you believe that this just happened?

Joey Coleman: In our house, I have a Saturday morning ritual with my boys. Whenever they wake up, which to be honest is usually super early, they come and wake me up and we all go downstairs to our living room to watch cartoons together.

Dan Gingiss: Oh, I remember those days. Mine are now teenagers and near teenagers, so we’re not really watching cartoons anymore.

Joey Coleman: Not as much into the cartoons anymore. No, I hear you. And to be honest, it’s one of the reasons I do it because not only does taking the boys allow my wife to sleep in after a long week, but it gives me some quality time together with my sons that I know won’t be as interesting to them as they get older.

Joey Coleman: So what we usually do is watch cartoons on Netflix. But recently we tried a new show that I had heard about and I thought they might enjoy, called Nailed It. Have you ever watched, Nailed It, Dan?

Dan Gingiss: So I have not watched Nailed It, but I want to ask a question before you even start. Was it something you thought they would enjoy or something Netflix thought that they would enjoy?

Joey Coleman: Good clarifying question. Netflix suggested it and I had also heard from our niece that she likes to watch the show. And so I thought, “All right, maybe the boys will like this too.” And to be honest, you can only do so many episodes of Paw Patrol and Octonauts before you say we got to throw something different into the system.

Dan Gingiss: And Spongebob. That was the one I could not stand.

Joey Coleman: Oh yeah, we don’t do SpongeBob at our house. We are a SpongeBob free home. Thankfully. Octonauts, Paw Patrol, love them. Great shows. But something that wasn’t a cartoon seemed like it might be interesting as well. So we decided to watch Nailed it.

Joey Coleman: Now for all of you that may not be familiar, Nailed It is a baking show that brings together three amateur bakers who compete against each other to win a $10,000 prize. Now, each round sees the host, comic Nicole Byer, and renowned pastry chef Jacques Torres, showcasing a beautifully made cake or cookies or a dessert of some type. And then the contestants are given a limited period of time, usually 20 minutes to two hours, to make something that looks just like the example. Now the phrase, Nailed It, comes from a popular trend on Pinterest to try to make what you see and even when you basically fail epically, you say “Nailed it.”

Dan Gingiss: Nailed it.

Joey Coleman: Yeah. Okay, good. You knew that one. I like it.

Dan Gingiss: I can’t decide what’s more shocking, Joey, that you’re watching a baking show because I know you don’t know how to bake, or that you know about Pinterest and the concept of ‘nailed it.’

Joey Coleman: Well I resemble those remarks, Dan. I agree with you. I am not into baking but I can certainly appreciate a well-designed and baked dessert. I also love the concept of boldly claiming that you nailed it, when in reality your finished product looks nothing like what you saw on Pinterest. But to be honest, the thing I wanted to talk about has less to do with the show and more to do with what happened at the end of the show we were watching in the final few seconds.

Joey Coleman: I want to play for you a clip of the show so that you understand what I mean. By way of setting this up a bit, the host, Nicole, is going to announce the winner of the episode and then she’s going to encourage her guest hosts to shower the winner with money. They have this device that shoots the $10,000 bills all over the winner. The part to pay specific attention to is right after that when the host speaks directly to the viewer. Take a listen.

Nicole Byer: The winner is … Chris. Hit him with that cash.

Chris: I can finally say, “Chris, you nailed it.”

Nicole Byer: Thanks for joining us on Nailed It. The next episode starts in four, three, two, one.

Nicole Byer: Welcome to Nailed It.

Dan Gingiss: Very interesting. It’s as if the show is both encouraging the viewer to watch more and anticipating that they’re going to watch more right now.

Joey Coleman: Exactly, and this is the thing. I had never seen this before in any type of show. As anyone who is a subscriber to Netflix knows, as soon as you finish watching one episode of a show, they automatically start playing the next episode a few seconds later. This helps everyone involved. The viewer who’s engrossed in the TV doesn’t have to select the next episode and Netflix keeps you engaged and watching by automatically starting the next episode. But what caught my attention is that the producers and writers for the show Nailed It are so familiar with the typical binge watching that occurs on Netflix, that they actually built the prompt to stay watching into the script of the show.

Dan Gingiss: Wow. We have clearly come a long way since the way the shows ended when we were kids. I remember  it being this huge deal when a show would end with ‘to be continued.’ Because it was a two parter, whereas most of the time when we were kids, the episodes kind of stood on their own. So this is however completely taking that to a different place.

Joey Coleman: Yeah. I mean there’s something completely different from tune in next week to the next episode starts in four, three, two, one and then it’s playing. Now I know consumers have been binge watching shows ever since it became possible to view things on demand. But I have never seen a show address this behavior so head on.

Dan Gingiss: Yeah, I agree. I don’t think I’ve ever seen that either. The only thing I can maybe compare it to is that some of the reality shows like America’s Got Talent will have a live performance show on one night and then the results on the next night. And you almost can’t help but watch two nights in a row. But even then, it’s not immediate. And this is this understanding that the whole concept of binge-watching is now this moment. And I just wonder, how many episodes are there of this thing? How many hours into the night am I going to stay up if I just leave it going?

Joey Coleman: Right. And most of the research actually shows, since on demand TV has come out, the amount of time people spend watching in a single setting has increased dramatically. So overall TV usage and a lot of demographics is going down because there are so many other distractions. Your phone and the internet and things you could be doing on a laptop or an iPad. But when you do sit down to watch, binging is kind of a common practice and behavior.

Joey Coleman: So here’s our question for you, loyal listeners, how are you adjusting your offerings to take into consideration the tectonic shifts that are occurring in customer behavior? Are you considering your content release schedule and what your customers want? Or are you considering what’s easiest for you in terms of a production schedule? Does your messaging and positioning align with the present day realities of customer behavior, even if you yourself aren’t an early adopter or a raving fan of these shifting trends? What are you doing to constantly evolve your offerings so that customers and prospects alike feel like you’re taking their needs and their wants and their behaviors into consideration?

Dan Gingiss: Joey, you and I have talked about something related to this about our very show. One thing I think that our listeners and friends and, well, my social media followers know is that-

Joey Coleman: That was subtle, wasn’t it? For those of you keeping score at home, social media expert, Dan, one, non social media expert, Joey, zero.

Dan Gingiss: So what they all know is that you and I both practice what we preach.

Joey Coleman: We try to.

Dan Gingiss: That’s really important.

Joey Coleman: We try to.

Dan Gingiss: Yes. So to that end …

Joey Coleman: Yeah. So to that end, let’s put this to the test. You’re listening to our show and since season one, Dan and I have been having conversations outside of the recording room, discussing whether or not we should drop our shows, an entire season of the Experience This show, once a week like we currently do, or whether we should release an entire season all at once, a la Netflix. Thus far, we’ve decided to release the shows in a weekly fashion.

Joey Coleman: But it’s an ongoing discussion we’re having. In fact, we want to ask you what you think. Would you like to have an entire season of Experience This released all at once? Or do you like the fact that we drip a little bit out every week? We release a single episode. To do this, visit experiencethisshow.com and click on the listener poll at the top of the homepage. We’d love to see what all of you think and if there’s a strong consensus one way or the other, we’re happy to adjust the plans for future seasons of the Experience This show.

[I Love It, I Can’t Stand It] Email Lists

Joey Coleman: Sometimes the customer experiences is amazing. And sometimes we just want to cry. Get ready for the roller coaster ride in this edition of I Love It.

Dan Gingiss: I can’t stand it.

Joey Coleman: I’m in a very complicated relationship that I want to tell you about, Dan.

Dan Gingiss: Uh oh, this doesn’t sound good. Everything okay with you and Berit?

Joey Coleman: No, no. It’s all good. I’m not talking about my personal relationships. I’m talking about my relationship with email.

Dan Gingiss: Oh, I can understand that. That is complicated.

Joey Coleman: Yeah, so in fact, the specific aspect of my email that I want to talk about in this segment is how my email address gets used and regularly abused by other people. I thought it might actually be a ripe topic for us to discuss. And considering there some things that I absolutely love but many that I can’t stand, I thought this could be a good format for it. So that we end on a high note, let’s start with the things that we can’t stand about how our email is used in ways that are not exciting to us.

Joey Coleman: So for example, when I meet someone at an event and we exchange business cards and I think, “Oh, this is interesting. I’ll be in communication with this person.” And then they take the email on my business card, which is my personal email and add me without asking to their e-newsletter, which usually is about something that I have zero interest in. It drives me insane.

Dan Gingiss: How about when companies share my email address with third parties, that then start marketing to me? And this happens sometimes because I go by Dan, but every once in a while I’ll get something that’s addressed to Danny or Daniel or I’ll have my last name misspelled. And you can see it propagate as the name gets sold and sold over and over again.

Joey Coleman: So true. That’s kind of like what we’ve talked about in episodes in the past. As somebody who goes by Joey, if I get anything addressed to Joseph or to Joe, I know that they don’t actually know me. Yeah, I agree.

Joey Coleman: The other one that drives me crazy is when I donate to a friend’s cause. So like on Facebook, somebody says, “Hey, for my birthday I’m raising money for this cause.” And I donated to that cause. And then that cause automatically starts emailing me their newsletter, asking me for additional donations, giving me random thoughts. And I feel it’s one of those times where I feel like I want to say to them, “Folks, I appreciate you’re hopefully doing good work in the world. But the only reason I know about you, the only reason I’m interested in giving money to you is because my friend asked me to. I’m not actually interested in your cause.”

Dan Gingiss: You know when I share my email to access some content on a website for example, and then you get an email back from the sales team asking to set up a call so that they can sell me something. And it’s like, “Well, no, I really just wanted the content on your site and you put it up there and you made me put in an email. If I want to talk to you for a sales presentation, I know where to reach you.”

Joey Coleman: Yeah. And that one in particular happens to both of us, we’ve talked about this on the show before, all the time because we do a lot of research. We’re speakers, we’re writers. We’re trying to find things and it’s like there’s a giant disconnect between a company’s content arm and their sales arm. The content can stand alone and be free and it establishes you as a thought leader or as an industry leader. It doesn’t mean that I’m interested in buying your widgets.

Joey Coleman: Okay. So we’d better stop there because I get the feeling we could go on and on about all the ways that companies and people misuse email addresses. But let’s talk about some of the best practices for using a customer email address instead. Dan, why don’t you go ahead and start us off on this one?

Dan Gingiss: Well, I think one of the great ways to kind of overcome one of the things we can’t stand is when somebody forwards me say a single copy of a newsletter or a piece of content and then gives me the choice of continuing on to subscribe. So I’m okay with them sending the taster without signing me up continuously without my permission.

Joey Coleman: So true. And what about when people ask my permission to make an introduction and then they do it over email instead of connecting me via messenger or text message? Email has its purpose and I like it when it’s used that way, but before you share my email with another person, make sure that I’m okay with that.

Dan Gingiss: I also like it when people are transparent about the fact that sharing my email will bring a series or sequence of emails to my inbox over the coming days and weeks. We talk about setting customer expectations a lot on this podcast and this is very similar is that if you tell people, “Hey, when you give me your email, you’re going to hear from me twice a week or you’re going to hear from me every other week.” That makes me much more comfortable giving you my email rather than having no idea how often you’re going to use it and abuse it.

Joey Coleman: Yeah. Last but not least, I love it when people do gain my email from a third party that I have a relationship with and then they acknowledge it or cite that when they send me the first message. So, “Oh, we got your information from so-and-so because they thought you might be interested in XYZ.” That I’m okay with. Friends, let’s be candid. Seth Godin addressed this way back in 1999 in his book Permission Marketing. And if you haven’t read it, go read it right now, as the concepts and the principles he outlines have certainly stood the test of time and clearly not enough people read the book because they wouldn’t be behaving this way if they had. In the meantime, please, please, please consider your customer’s emails to be sacred and follow the golden rule. Do onto those emails as you would have done unto yours.

[Start the Conversation] Employee Experience Matters Too

Joey Coleman: Sometimes all it takes is a single question to get your company thinking about an improved customer experience. Here’s an idea for how you can start the conversation.

Joey Coleman: This week’s start the conversation topic is employee experience matters too. CX leaders are often laser focused on the experience customers have while interacting with their brand. While the customer’s experience during an interaction is important, of course, so is the experience of employees who support customers during these interactions. Employees are often overlooked during customer experience planning. Failing to consider the employee can lead to unnecessary stress, frustration, and staff turnover, especially when the employees are asked to do too much with too little support.

Dan Gingiss: And believe you me, your customers can see it on your employee’s faces. A happy employee equals a happy customer. So here are three ways to improve employee experience. One, ensuring the organization’s customer experience technologies and tools are capable of supporting employees and the CX strategy. Two, integrating commonly used technology platforms to streamline routine activities, such as customer data review or data entry. Three, continually reviewing processes and policies to eliminate common pain points or roadblocks that negatively impact employees.

Joey Coleman: Dan, you’re so right. I often think of it as the customer experience and the employee experience being two sides of the same coin. As we elevate the customer experience, we by default elevate the employee experience. If the employee experience is in the tank and not doing well, the customer experience is going down too.

Joey Coleman: You can’t ask your employees to create a remarkable customer experience if they don’t know what one is. We need to, as employers, show our employees the same laser focus and dedication to their experience that we’re asking them to show when it comes to the experiences they create for our customers. So how might we do this? Well, one quick idea is from the concept of personalization. We think about all the different ways we personalize for our customers, but do we have that same kind of data about our employees? Do we know their spouse’s name? Do we know their anniversary, their birthday? Do we celebrate those things? Or are those the kinds of communications that are only reserved for data we collect from our customers? Something to think about.

Dan Gingiss: And now for this week’s question about the importance of employee experience. Are my employees given the tools and support they need to do their jobs and execute on our customer experience strategy? We encourage you to start the conversation within your own organization and then continue it with our friends at AVTECH, by going to experienceconversations.com. Once again, that is experienceconversations.com.

[Book Report] Indistractible

Joey Coleman: We spend hours and hours nose deep in books. We believe that everything you read influences the experiences you create. So we’re happy to answer our favorite question. What are you reading?

Joey Coleman: Dan, I have to tell you, I’ve been reading a book that I think you would enjoy, but it goes a little bit against the grain when it comes to social media.

Dan Gingiss: What do you mean?

Joey Coleman: So as you know, I’m not that active on social media. I know. Shocker, shocker.

Dan Gingiss: You don’t say.

Joey Coleman: We’ll pause a moment, everyone, so you can pick yourself up off the floor. But I’m willing to confess to you and to our loyal listeners that I don’t have the best relationship with social media. Not just because of the things you would say about how I need to be tweeting more and doing things like that. The fact of the matter is I regularly find myself mindlessly wandering through Facebook, scrolling through LinkedIn or even looking to see what you’re up to on Twitter. I know, it does actually happen.

Dan Gingiss: Hey, thanks buddy.

Joey Coleman: I know it’s shocking. You’re the only one I look at. It’s okay. The problem with this isn’t that I’m on social media. The problem is that technology is distracting me from things that I know are more to me. I say these things are more important to me and yet when it comes to my behavior, I still do them.

Dan Gingiss: Yeah, I feel you here, man. I mean this is the first year, 2019 is the first year that I have worked for myself. And so I now work from home every day. And dealing with distractions is literally a daily challenge for me. There’ve been days where I will intentionally go and sit out on my deck so that I’m not inside where I can see the refrigerator or I can go play with one of my pinball machines or-

Joey Coleman: Or I’ll just go fold that laundry. It will only take me a minute. Or maybe I can rearrange the linen closet today.

Dan Gingiss: Yes. What’s for dinner tonight? I better go shopping. But so, distractions can be both technological and not, but they’re very, very difficult to deal with. And I think technology in particular, because of its addictive nature, is one of the hardest ones to push out.

Joey Coleman: I totally agree. And that’s why I wanted to talk about this book I’ve been reading and how to take action on these things. But I’ll come back to the action part. So the book is called Indistractible, How To Control Your Attention And Choose Your Life. It’s written by my good friend Nir Eyal, who we talked about way back in season one, episode 32.

Dan Gingiss: Hey, look who’s the episodes savant now.

Joey Coleman: I know. How about that? Well, I knew I was going to be trying to convince you that technology and social media was a little bad. So I thought I’d play your role here.

Joey Coleman: So what’s fascinating to me is that Nir’s first book, Hooked, which was fantastic by the way, was all about how technology companies use a four step process embedded into their products to subtly encourage customer behavior. Another way to put that, to get you addicted. So through consecutive hook cycles, these products bring the user back again and again and it creates this repetitive behavior. Now in Nir’s newest book, Indistractible, he teaches readers how to counter those hooking behaviors. I had the chance to talk with him about why he thinks this book and its message are so important at this time in human history. Here’s what he had to say.

Nir Eyal: Becoming indistractible is the skill of the century. We’ve all seen how potentially distracting our devices can be in our day to day lives. Products like Facebook, your iPhone, Instagram, WhatsApp, Slack. I mean it goes on and on and the fact is these products are designed to hook you. I should know because my first book was a Wall Street Journal bestseller by the title Hooked, How To Build Habit Forming Products. Now I wrote Hooked so that all sorts of products can use the same techniques that the social media networks use, that all kinds of technology companies use to keep you hooked in order to build healthy habits in our lives.

Nir Eyal: However, there is a dark side. The cost of these products that are so engaging, that are so habit forming is that sometimes we can go overboard. Now we should realize that distraction is not a new problem. But by understanding the root cause of distraction, the deeper psychology of why we go off track, we can make sure that we can get the best out of these technologies without letting them get the best of us.

Dan Gingiss: Well, first of all, I absolutely love that this guy first writes about the addictive nature of technology and then writes about how to get yourself unaddicted from said technology. So that is a person who clearly has his eyes wide open and understands the changes of the world. So I think that’s super cool.

Dan Gingiss: This is a really complex topic because the technology to which we have become addicted is also a critical part of our lives and has changed our lives for all of the good reasons that Nir outlined in his first book. And so it’s really difficult because … My dad has a saying, if some is good, more is better. And I think that generally is true in life. But perhaps with these kinds of technologies, it may not be. So what are some of your favorite takeaways so far?

Joey Coleman: Well, first and foremost, I’ve noticed how increasingly distractable I’ve become over the years. So the fact that I’m even aware that there’s a problem, I think is moving in the right direction. There’s so many things that are vying for my attention. And to be honest, I often struggle to maintain specific focus without succumbing to avoidable interruptions and unnecessary distractions. At times, I get pretty frustrated with myself. But one of the things I’ve loved about Nir’s book is it’s helped me to see that there’s a hidden psychology that is driving all of us to distraction. It’s not that I’m bad, it’s that we’re hardwired to succumb to these type of challenges.

Dan Gingiss: So does he suggest that we just get rid of all of our social media, technology, phones, and every distraction in life?

Joey Coleman: No. He doesn’t. And what’s interesting is most people who ,when they hear about Nir’s book or they hear the title, they’re going to go, “Oh great. Then I have to just go cold turkey and get rid of everything and abstain.” And in fact he actually describes that solving the problem is not as simple as deleting apps and destroying cell phones. In fact, he says that’s a mistake because abstinence doesn’t actually work.

Joey Coleman: Instead he provides a four step process for making the most of technology without letting the technology take over your life.

Dan Gingiss: Well, that sounds more appealing than trashing my cell phone.

Joey Coleman: It does. I think it sounds more appealing and it also sounds more realistic. Nir does a great job of giving advice on how to raise indistractable children, for example, in an increasingly distracting world. Something that frankly hit home for me because of the way watch my son’s clamor for screen time, even though we limit screen time in our house pretty significantly. But what I did notice is going through this and reading this book is that while I will say to my sons, without hesitation or guilt, “We are not using the iPads today.” If someone said to me, “You are not using your phone today,” I think I’d react even more strongly than they do. I mean, they’re not happy when I say no iPad time. If somebody said to me, no iPhone time, I wouldn’t be happy at all.

Dan Gingiss: Well, as I like to say to my kids, the iPhone is a privilege, not a right.

Joey Coleman: Fair enough. Fair enough.

Dan Gingiss: And the thing is is that for you and I, Joey, we use our phones all day for business and it becomes a required part of doing our jobs. And yet we also use our phones for things like checking our social media platforms and playing games and other things that are obviously the privileges of life. And I think that the trick is making sure that that balance is in place.

Joey Coleman: I agree. I think all too often, and I am guilty of this too, so listeners, if this applies to you, please know I’m not judging. I claim that my phone is for business, but when I get into bed after a long day of work and it’s midnight and my wife’s already asleep and I go on Facebook and next thing I know it’s 2:30 AM. I’ve been scrolling and watching videos and entertaining myself. That’s not work. I’ve sacrificed sleep because of the addiction.

Dan Gingiss: And I definitely suggest that that’s a habit you may want to consider changing.

Joey Coleman: Oh, 100%.

Dan Gingiss: And similarly with the kids, sometimes they’re using it for educational purposes and many times it’s sitting mindlessly watching video after video after video. Kind of like we were talking previously. It’s really easy once you get onto YouTube, it’s kind of like Nailed It, is that as soon as you’re done with one video, another one pops up.

Joey Coleman: Absolutely. And as I mentioned earlier, the book has already produced actions and results in my life. Now we’ve talked a little bit here about social media in our phone. The book actually lays out simple and effective ways to improve your relationships across the board with family and friends and work. And one of the things I looked at specifically was my relationship with email. Prior to reading Nir’s book, I was constantly checking and rechecking email. I know it’s something that I know I shouldn’t do, but after reading Indistractible, I had a better understanding of why I do it.

Joey Coleman: So to fix this problem, I started scheduling long stretches of time where I would shut off my email on my laptop and put my phone into airplane mode. This lets email pile up instead of constantly bombarding me throughout the day. I also got aggressive on deleting apps from my phone, especially those that I noticed were distracting me the most. I can still access these sites on my laptop, but since laptop is tucked into my bag when I travel versus being in my hand or my pocket, like my phone, I find that I spend less time mindlessly consuming content. If I want to consume content, it takes a specific action, which by its very nature means it’s a more intentional activity.

Dan Gingiss: Well, as I said earlier, I feel you because all of this is very familiar to me and I have the same issues. And I think for me, it also involves going to a place where I’m not as likely to connect with email or go onto social media. It’s why I go outside. Sometimes the internet isn’t as good outside. And what I find is when I’m say, writing a post for Forbes, if I go put myself out of wifi range and sit down, I can write a post in 45 minutes to an hour. Whereas if I do it in my family room or living room where the wifi is great, I’ll get distracted so many times it’ll take me two hours to write the same post. So that’s one of the hints that I’ve at least used that I think has helped.

Joey Coleman: I love it and I think this is an evolving consideration and conversation for all of us. What I like the most about this book was not the tips, although there were certainly many, or the stories which were fantastic, or even the psychology which knowing Nir, it was incredibly well-researched and cited. What I enjoyed the most is that it shifted my thinking. I’m now more aware when a distraction tries to draw me in and I immediately take action to refocus or I figure out a way to minimize the likelihood of that distraction coming back in the future.

Dan Gingiss: Hey look, Joey, over here.

Joey Coleman: Squirrel?

Dan Gingiss: Hey. Hey.

Joey Coleman: Squirrel? So at the risk of distracting you from listening to this podcast, don’t worry, we’re nearing the end of the episode anyway, I recommend you go pick up a copy of Nir Eyal’s book Indistractible, How To Control Your Attention And Choose Your Life. Not only do I think you’ll enjoy it, but I think it could end up being the catalyst that allows you to take control of your life again and reestablish some healthy boundaries for the roles that technology plays in your life.

Joey Coleman: Wow. Thanks for joining us for another episode of Experience This.

Dan Gingiss: We know there are tons of podcasts to listen to, magazines and books to read, reality TV to watch. We don’t take for granted that you’ve decided to spend some quality time listening to the two of us.

Joey Coleman: We hope you enjoyed our discussions and if you do, we’d love to hear about it. Come on over to experiencethisshow.com and let us know what segments you enjoyed, what new segments you’d like to hear. This show is all about experience and we want you to be part of the Experience This show.

Dan Gingiss: Thanks again for your time and we’ll see you next week for more …

Joey Coleman: Experience.

Dan Gingiss: This.