Episode 113 – Getting Customers Talking – For the Right Reasons

Join us as we discuss reading in darkness, servicing on video, and confusing your customers.

Floating, Humanizing, and Infuriating – Oh My!

[CX Press] Not Seeing is Experiencing

Things We Mentioned in This Segment:

Wuguan Books – Taiwan (photo courtesy Lee Kuo-min)

• “At this bookstore in Taiwan, visitors shop in the dark” – by Maggie Hiufu Wong for CNN Travel (cnn.com)
• Dans le Noir – “dinner in the dark” restaurant in Paris, France
• “A Surreal New Bookstore Has Just Opened in China” – by Elizabeth Stamp in Architectural Digest
• Harry Potter – Lumos!
• Episode 42, Season 2 – “Signing” – Starbucks + Gallaudet University
• Episode 75, Season 4 – “The Smell of Experience” – Fresh Scents, Inc.
• Episode 82, Season 4 – “Serving Up Remarkable Experiences and Great Pizza to An Inclusive Audience” – Pizzability

[Listener Stories] How Best to Humanize the Customer Experience?

Things We Mentioned in This Segment:

• Lindsay McDermott – Chief Happiness Officer at HabitNest
• Habit Nest – find your journal today
• BombBomb – personalized video messaging via email
• Winning at Social Customer Care – by Dan Gingiss
• Tim Chang – Mayfield Fund
• Submit Your Listener Story Here

[Partnership with Avtex] Playing Experience Points – Think Fast!

Things We Mentioned in This Segment:

• Avtex
• Experience Points
• Think Fast!

[This Just Happened] Make Errors Easy to Correct

Things We Mentioned in This Segment:

Prepaid Visa Cards
• Web-Friendly Date Formats
• Error Messages for Websites

Host Contact Information

Email Dan: Dan@dangingiss.com

Tweet Dan Gingiss: @DGingiss

Email Joey: JoeyC@JoeyColeman.com

DanGingiss.com

JoeyColeman.com

Subscribe to Experience This on Apple Podcasts

Episode Transcript

Download an unedited transcript of Episode 113 here or read it below:

[SHOW INTRO]
Dan Gingiss (00:05):
Welcome to Experience This!

Joey Coleman (00:08):
Where you’ll find inspiring examples of customer experience, great stories of customer service, and tips on how to make your customers love you even more!

Dan Gingiss (00:17):
Always upbeat and definitely entertaining customer attention expert, Joey Coleman

Joey Coleman (00:23):
and social media expert, Dan Gingiss serve as your hosts for a weekly dose of positive customer experience.

Dan Gingiss (00:30):
So hold on to your headphones, it’s time to Experience This!

[EPISODE 113 INTRO]
Dan Gingiss (00:39):
Get ready, for another episode of the Experience This! Show!

Joey Coleman (00:45):
Join us as we discuss reading in darkness, servicing on video, and confusing your customers.

Dan Gingiss (00:56):
Floating, humanizing, and infuriating… Oh my!

[SEGMENT INTRO – CX PRESS]
Joey Coleman (01:04):
There are so many great customer experience articles to read, but who has the time?! We summarize them and offer clear takeaways you can implement starting tomorrow, enjoy this segment of CX Press – where we read the articles, so you don’t need to!

[CX PRESS][Not Seeing is Experiencing]
Dan Gingiss (01:22):
This week’s CX press article comes to us from CNN Travel and is titled “At this bookstore in Taiwan visitors shop in the dark.” And it’s written by Maggie HIFU Wong. It tells the story of uhon books located in [inaudible], which is Taiwan’s second largest city. Now the unique bookshop was created by the award-winning architecture and space designer, Chu Chicong, and it requires shoppers to navigate through the store in almost complete darkness, except for little dim spotlights on each of the book covers the result creates the illusion that the books are floating. Now, as you probably know, Joey, when we lose the ability to use one or more of our senses, the other senses become heightened. And that is exactly what happens to visitors in this bookstore. In fact, the stores translated slogan refers to being able to read your soul while inside of it.

Joey Coleman (02:25):
Well, there are so many things about this story that I absolutely love and friends, listeners, to give you a little insight to how this works every once in a while, Dan or I will text each other, a link to a story and say, Hey, what do you think about this one for experiences? When Dan texted me this link, not only was I like, yes, we need to talk about this on the show. But if we weren’t in the COVID environment while we’re recording this, I would’ve wanted to book a flight to Taiwan to go see this place. It looks fascinating. And there were a couple of pieces about this that really stood out to me in an era where everybody is paying attention to quote unquote, the death of retail and the moving of retail online individual physical stores need to think differently about the experience they create. And that’s clearly what this bookstore is doing. There’s an entire experience here in the heightened senses. I mean, it reminds me of a restaurant that I went to in Paris years ago called Dans le Noir – Dinner in the Dark. And it was basically a restaurant where you ate in complete darkness. The staff is all blind, so the darkness doesn’t bother them. They’re able to navigate between the tables and serve you. But as an individual who can see you are quote unquote, visually impaired for the meal, which heightens your sense of taste by having a delicious meal.

Dan Gingiss (03:43):
See, now that would drive me nuts because I like when I watch occasionally we’ll watch TV during dinner and the kids sometimes want to turn the light off. I can’t have the light off while I’m eating. I need to be able to see my food. It just gives me it kind of skeeves me out. Not to be able to see what I’m eating.

Joey Coleman (04:00):
Oh, see, I loved, loved to love this restaurant because it was that same thing. Like the smells were heightened, the tastes were heightened and you had to figure things out like how much, you know, what food am I pulling off my plate? And where is my plate? And where is the fork in relationship to my mouth? And all of these mustard exactly created a totally fantastic experience. And here I am years later, I mean, it was more than a decade ago that I ate at that restaurant and I can be transported instantly back to that experience. And I imagine folks going to this bookstore in Taiwan would have a similar experience.

Dan Gingiss (04:37):
Well, and I love that you mentioned Amazon, obviously we’re both Amazon fans here are both prime members for a long, long time, but I sorta get a little bit uptight when people blame Amazon for the death of small business. And I turn it around and I say, no, it’s the small businesses that have caused the death of small business in more cases than not because they didn’t respond to what was going on around them. And I always advise, I know you do too, Joey, that one of the ways that you compete with an Amazon is to do things they can’t do. And this is a great example of it. Amazon can’t turn off the lights, at least not yet in your house and create darkness in a bookstore and make it look like books are floating. And so I thought that was a really interesting comparison, but the article also talks about how this bookstore doesn’t even have a very big selection. It only has 400 books. Now, a typical medium-sized bookstore is going to have several thousand books. So 400, not much, but they’re so focused on creating an experience. And in the article, the store manager reports that people are spending much longer in this store than a typical bookstore. And even more than that, because it’s dark, they’re actually willing to consider books that they probably aren’t considering at the big bookstore, things like erotica and other topics that maybe are a little bit taboo when the lights are on.

Joey Coleman (06:10):
Fair enough, fair enough. And family show friends, don’t worry. It’s going to be okay. I totally embrace this concept because I agree with you, Dan. I don’t know that I’d go so far as to say that the, the small retail stores are to blame for not being able to stand up against Amazon because you run into a lot of things around pricing and availability and access. And, and we’ve really over-indexed, especially in the United States, but in a lot of countries in the world on the power of convenience and how convenience trumps everything. One of the places where we haven’t seen that as much is in some of the experiences I’ve had in Asian countries. I know you and I have both talked about the shopping experience in Ginza in Japan. And there’s this bookstore in Taiwan. And I read an article recently in Architectural Digest, which was about another bookstore – this one in Chung du in China that is designed to look like the MC Escher bookcase drawing, or, you know, illustration illusion, if you will. Uh, and we’ll link to that in the show notes at ExperienceThisShow.com as well. So you can see that, but I do think there is going to be this move, not only brought on by economics of creating more of an experience when it comes to the store. But I think in response to COVID, what we’re going to see is when people begin venturing out into the retail environment, again, in large numbers, physical locations are going to have to compete with the convenience of everything being delivered to home. And the best way for them to compete is not going to be on price. It’s not gonna be on convenience. It’s not going to be on size of selection. It’s going to be on the experience they create when you go to their location.

Dan Gingiss (07:54):
Absolutely. I mean, let’s be honest, books are more or less a commodity, the 400 books that are being sold in this store being sold in a store down the street. So it’s not about the inventory that they have. It’s about the experience that they’re creating and how memorable it is. Now. You also know, because I talk about it all the time that I love signs. And I think signage is such an interesting, fascinating way to communicate with your customers and to really show your brand personality. Well, it turns out that before you enter this dark bookstore, there are a series of rules that are posted at the entrance. Now, one of the main rules, which is important to note is you cannot bring in a flashlight, can’t turn on your phone or anything else to ruin the atmosphere for others. But the other rules seem to be a little bit tongue in cheek. Now I’ll be honest. I’m guessing that these are translations, uh, but I’m not entirely sure that the CNN article didn’t, didn’t say, but one of the articles, one of the signs says, don’t shout when someone steps on your toes, step on his or hers knife, which I love another one says, if someone wants the same book as you buy the book or get his or her number. And then the third one, which I particularly appreciated because when I saw the picture of these books, the first thing I thought of was Harry Potter. And I was thinking about the massive dining hall where all the students eat in the candles,

Joey Coleman (09:24):
Floating, floating candles, right? Yeah. And the great hall.

Dan Gingiss (09:27):
I love it. And so sure enough, the third, the third sign says, if you think it’s too dark inside, pick up a tree branch and shout Lumos.

Joey Coleman (09:36):
I love it. I love it. And what’s so great about this. And I’m in the midst of reading the third Harry Potter book, Prisoner of Azkaban to my two boys who are four and seven listeners. You can write in later and judge, if that’s too early to expose them to the Harry Potter books. But what I love about that particular sign, Dan is it’s a sign that anyone who’s read, the Harry Potter books will immediately resonate with. And if you haven’t read the Harry Potter books, you probably won’t. And it goes to show that it’s okay to have communication with your customers that targets into this specific type of customer you’re attracting. If you’re a bookstore, chances are pretty good. They’re familiar with Harry Potter and they’ve read Harry Potter, the person coming to your store. So I love the way there were some literary references in those signs that kind of took the conversation to the next level.

Dan Gingiss (10:30):
Absolutely. So here are the takeaways. The first is even in a commodity industry like books, customer experience can be a differentiator. The second is this is how to compete with the behemoths brands like Amazon is do things that an online retailer can’t do. And the challenge, I think, which is also a third takeaway, is how do you look at the sensory experience of your business? Now, this is not the first time we’ve talked about sensory experience and I’m going to pull my little rain man trick here, which I know you love because it’s going to be impressive. Ladies and gentlemen, hold on because we’ve actually talked about it multiple times. We talked about, uh, first we talked about the Starbucks near Gallaudet university that caters to the deaf community (that was episode 42). Then we talked about using smell as part of the experience. And, and we talked to a friend of mine that works for a scent company that was episode 75. And then you described your experience at Pizbility, where it was intentionally removing some of the different sensory aspects of the restaurant and creating a memorable experience. So this bookstore managed to do that with darkness. I’d be fascinated to know how you might be able to do it with your business, but standing out and creating an experience is a way to be remembered.

[SEGMENT INTRO – LISTENER STORIES]
Joey Coleman (11:52):
You listen to us, now we want to listen to you. By visiting our website and sharing your remarkable customer experiences with us, we can share them with a broader audience. Now, sit back and enjoy our Listener Stories.

[LISTENER STORIES][Humanize the Customer Experience]
Dan Gingiss (12:11):
So, as we’ve told you multiple times, we love it when listeners send in stories.

Joey Coleman (12:16):
Yes! We love it, keep them coming friends.

Dan Gingiss (12:19):
Yes. And while we always point you to the contact page on our website, which allows you to leave us a voicemail, some of you decide to send us an email instead, and you know what that is absolutely. Okay.

Joey Coleman (12:33):
You communicate in the way that works for you, friends.

Dan Gingiss (12:35):
Yes. We, we all believe in the channel of your choice, not to channel of our choice and Lindsey McDermott, who is the chief happiness officer of a company called habit nest that, uh, makes these beautiful leather-bound journals for all different occasions. I went to the website and I found some holiday gifts there. It’s beauty there. They’re great.

Joey Coleman (12:56):
And ladies and gentlemen, if Dan Gingiss went to the site, cause Dan’s not a big journal guy, let’s be honest. I’m more of a journal and like the tactile guy, Dan, not as much. So Lindsay kudos to you that I, Dan was so intrigued that he ordered some holiday gifts. Great job Habit Nest.

Dan Gingiss (13:11):
Yes. I didn’t say I ordered one for me. I heard of them as gifts, but he was, he was compelling you to take action. I liked it. I, Lindsay, reaching out to us has created sales for habit nest. So that’s wonderful. So anyway, what Lindsay wrote to us is, uh, first of all, thank you Lindsay, because she said that she has listened to virtually every one of our podcasts. And so she happens to know that we haven’t talked about this topic and, and she’s right. So she said one topic that I’d love to hear you talk about is humanizing customer engagement, for instance, should customer service folks respond with videos or voice notes? Do people want this or is it totally presumptive to say, Hey, you want to see my face? Or you want to hear my voice and Lindsey? I think it’s an awesome question. And in fact, I remember when I

worked for dDiscover, I did a lot of traveling, not traveling, sitting with customer service agents and, and call listening with them. And I talked to them about this. And one of the things that I found almost immediately was none of them wanted to be on camera, none of the customer service reps, just to be clear, none of the customer service reps. Correct. And, and I don’t know if it’s because they felt like they had a face for radio or, or, or they just weren’t comfortable with it. And this was several years ago. So it could be that. So I think my first thought about this topic is, is that you’d have to hire a different type of customer service agent who is comfortable being behind the camera. But I think it’s a great idea because it adds this level of personal connection that I think everybody’s looking for, especially right now, uh, that we’re missing, we’re missing that human connection. And so I think a really cool idea. What do you think Joey?

Joey Coleman (14:54):
I think it is not only a cool idea, but I think it is a must in your business. If you do not currently have ways to overemphasize the human nature of your brand, interacting with your customer, you are missing out on a huge opportunity. And I love the example of voice notes and videos. I mean, let’s look at the reality. We are at a really unique time in human history and that we all have the technology in our pocket or in our purse, a cell phone with a camera on it. That is more powerful that camera than the cameras used by network news just 30 years ago. And right now the majority of people who text you videos are your family and friends, your loved ones, the closest people in your circle. And yet when I go to the typical business’s website, they talk all about how as a customer, you’re going to be part of our family and the Acme Corp family looks out for our people. We care for et cetera. Why not use the technology and the tool that is most often used for family members to communicate with your customers? Not only does it put a face onto the image of the brand, but it allows for those unscripted interactions, those personalized interactions that let you know that you matter as a customer. And I think so many customers would happily continue to do business with an organization if they felt like they mattered. And this is one easy way to let the tool of communication prove that you matter.

Dan Gingiss (16:23):
Absolutely. And that kind of reminds me of just two episodes ago in Episode 111, when we talked about texting, it’s very similar, right? Is that, that’s how we communicate with friends and family. And so why shouldn’t companies communicate with us that way. Now there is software out there for people to use this. Uh, I’m certainly familiar with one called BombBomb that allows you

Joey Coleman (16:44):
Yeah. Our good buddy Ethan at BombBomb!

Dan Gingiss (16:47):
Exactly. And you know, you could record quick videos and send them via email. In fact, I’ve, I’ve received one. I remember one that I received from actually was a salesperson and the salesperson was sitting there in the thumbnail of the video with a sign that he was holding and it said, hi dad.

Joey Coleman (17:03):
And I’m like, well, of course I got to watch this now click on the video. Exactly. You know, it’s funny, Dan, you mentioned that I actually did a case study in my book about a company called Zogics that does the same thing. They send these little thumbnail videos to all of their new customers, with them holding a clipboard with the name of the customer on it and a button that encourages you to start watching. Now let’s break it down for the numbers. People real quickly, the typical email confirmation gets opened about four to 6% of the time their videos get watched. Last I checked, it was like North of 78% of the time. So these little personalized communications really do work.

Dan Gingiss (17:44):
Absolutely. And, and, and talking about customer service, which Lindsay specifically up, one of the people that I interviewed for my book Winning at Social Customer Care was David Basulto, who is the founder of a company called [inaudible]. I prefer basically helps you transform your iPhone or your iPad into state-of-the-art video equipment. And one of the things that David was he’s one of the first people to do this. He was using Snapchat for customer service, and he told me the story about a customer who had called, and they couldn’t figure out what he was doing wrong until they went on the Snapchat and the customer shot a quick video of his setup. And David immediately noticed that he had two cords that were plugged in backwards. They were, you know, he had reversed them. And as soon as he saw the picture, he’s like, Oh, just do this. And that fixed the problem. And he said, from that moment on, I realized that customer service adding a visual element to it was far more effective than somebody trying to explain a technology set up on the phone, which could be very frustrating, especially for those of us that aren’t as technologically inclined.

Joey Coleman (18:56):
Absolutely. Why not use the technology tools that we have to create better experiences and better interactions for our customers. I love that example. You know, I had the chance earlier today to hear a keynote presentation by a guy by the name of Tim Chang. And Tim is with the Mayfield fund. It’s a big, incredibly well-known venture capital firm out in

Silicon Valley. And he was talking about this shift in to, in technology to focus less on hyperconnection and to focus more on rehumanizing. He specifically mentioned that do not talk to me button on Uber. So like when you call an Uber, you could set it up that you don’t want to talk to the driver. And on one hand, while that increases efficiency and effectiveness and maybe makes for a better experience for you as the passenger, it takes a little piece of our humanity and does away with it. Like if you don’t want to talk to the driver, get comfortable with saying, Hey, I really appreciate it, but I’ve got something I need to work on. If you don’t mind, I’d love to just be able to work on that while I ride in your car. That to me, at least allows us to engage human to human. Instead of let me press a button. That means I don’t have to acknowledge your existence. And so I think the question that Lindsay asked about is something where, you know, we want to do this. We want to have these types of connections as humans yet because of technology. We think that, you know, it’s okay not to when the reality is technology gives us the opportunity to connect in ways we weren’t otherwise able to before technology.

Dan Gingiss (20:32):
Totally agree. So what can you do in your company? Here’s what I would suggest find a customer service agent who’s willing to be the Guinea pig and make sure that they’re working on a channel where video is possible. It might be chat. It might be social media. It might be messaging and text and have them shoot a video in response to a question rather than just sending text back and see what happens, see how your customers respond. I’m going to guess that they’re going to love it.

Joey Coleman (21:04):
Absolutely. And by the way, you mentioned this earlier, Dan, I just want to briefly give, cause you asked me, you know, I’m not sure if customer service reps, I was working with some customer service reps the other day who were really anxious about starting to do video calls. And I explained a little bit what I’ve learned about the science of video. One of the main reasons people don’t like to see themselves on video is not because they think they’re unattractive or as you said, they have a face for radio. It’s that when we use a video camera, especially on our computer to shoot one of these little videos, we don’t see a mirror image when you are eye goes and stands and looks in front of a mirror. We see a mirror image of ourself. But when we see something that’s been filmed, we’re not seeing the mirror image. So it feels off to us. And it’s off to us in a way that we can’t describe because we know it’s us and we know what the situation is, but we’re seeing a view of ourselves that we’re not used to seeing. It’s the same reason why people don’t really like photos of themselves often is because they’re seeing a view that is not the view that they see when they look in the mirror. Now, the reality is that is the way the rest of the world has always seen you. You are the only person on the planet that is seeing the vision of you looking in the mirror. Everybody else sees the vision looking at you. So the reality is your employees are going to feel a little anxious about this in the beginning, push through it, shoot videos for them, have them shoot videos for each other, like any tool, the more you use it, the more comfortable you will be.

Dan Gingiss (22:33):
And set up incentives for it as well. Cause everybody loves a good contest or a good incentive. And I think you’ll get people doing it. Lindsey. Thank you so much for writing in. We really appreciate you listening and coming up with a great topic for us for this listener stories. And if anybody is listening right now and is inspired to go try this at your business, please let us know, go to experience this show.com to the contact section and either record us some audio, send us an email or heck send us a video.

[PARTNERSHIP WITH AVTEX][Playing Experience Points – Think Fast]
Dan Gingiss (23:13): Joey, think fast!

Joey Coleman (23:13): Think what?

Dan Gingiss (23:15):
Think fast. It’s the third of three games that we’re playing on our hit new game show, experience points presented by our friends at Avtex.

Joey Coleman (23:26):
Ah, yes. Think fast. This game is so fun precisely because it makes people sit up straight and pay attention. Let’s hear how the game works:

Rules Hostess (23:38):
In Think Fast, you will have one minute to answer five experience questions for each question you must quickly choose between two possible answers. Correct answers. Given before time runs out are worth 100 points, five, correct answers will earn you 500 bonus points for a possible score of 1000 points.

Dan Gingiss (24:01):
I really like this game because we take a study that a white paper, a report to survey, whatever it is that has been put out by real grownup research. That’s exactly. It’s been put out by a legitimate companies and we pull some of the statistics from the study and we turn them into questions. And what’s interesting is they’re only mult, they’re multiple choice, but there’s only two possibilities. So they’ll never be on the window. Yeah, you have a 50 50 chance. And yet the questions are really, really hard.

Joey Coleman (24:38):
Exactly. And in fact, they are so hard that only one person thus far has gone five for five with all the questions you’ll have to tune in at ExperiencePointsGame.com, that’s ExperiencePointsGame.com to see which contestant goes five per five when thinking fast.

Dan Gingiss (24:58):
Absolutely. And the other great thing about this game is that it gives our contestants the biggest potential to earn money for their charity. They can earn up to a thousand experience points, which converts to a thousand dollar donation. And I’ll tell you, one of the things Joey I’ve loved about this game show is the charities that our cusp that our contestants have picked are like, everyone is more amazing than the last one. And it feels so good that we’re doing something that is raising money for such great work.

Joey Coleman (25:31):
Dan, I couldn’t agree more. And in many ways it’s not surprising because our contestants, everyone is more amazing than the last one. We got some incredible customer experience, professional friends, folks that you’ve heard about folks that you’ve never heard about. But once you do get the chance to experience their wit their wisdom, their insight, their perspective, you will be paying attention to what their view on the customer experience landscape is going forward.

Dan Gingiss (25:58):
So come play along with us as we play Think fast on Experience Points brought to you by Avtex.

[SEGMENT INTRO – THIS JUST HAPPENED]
Joey Coleman (26:06):
We love telling stories and sharing key insights you can implement – or avoid – based on our experiences. Can you believe that This Just Happened?

[THIS JUST HAPPENED][Make Errors Easy to Correct]
Dan Gingiss (26:20):
So the other day I opened up my mailbox and I got one of those envelopes that feels like there’s a credit card inside.

Joey Coleman (26:28):
Ooo la la – you were intrigued.

Dan Gingiss (26:30):
I was because I didn’t order a credit card, like.

Joey Coleman (26:33): Free money, Free money!

Dan Gingiss (26:35):
Well, as it turns out, Joey, it was free money. I got a prepaid visa card worth $20.

Joey Coleman (26:45): Interesting. Who is this from?

Dan Gingiss (26:47):
That’s a great question, Joey. I have no, I don’t have a clue.

Joey Coleman (26:53):
A loyal listener from Experience This was kind enough to send Dan a prepaid… wait! I didn’t get a prepaid call. I got, maybe it wasn’t a listener. I don’t know. It was probably somebody from the Twitters.

Dan Gingiss (27:03):
Well, I got to tell ya, so I get this card and what was fascinating to me was I get, there’s a letter that comes with it and it’s kinda, you know, it’s a similar to the letter that you, um, that you get when you get a new credit card, except it’s like, you know, dear customer, here’s your prepaid card. And here’s all the rules around. It love us. And I’m like, okay, but why am I getting this prepaid card? Now I had an idea. It probably had something to do with a rebate form that I filled out at some point in time. And you know, sometimes they send you rebates as a prepaid card. So I’m assuming that’s what it is. There’s a name on the card that I’ve never heard of. So it’s a brand name. I’m not gonna mention it, but it’s a

brand name that I don’t recognize and don’t believe I’ve ever bought a product from it. It’s probably a holding company or something like that. So obviously this was strange, but it kinda got stranger. And this is really what I want to talk about is it had a little sticker on it, much like a credit card that said, you know, go ahead and activate it online. Now you go to activate it at, uh, you know, some website called prepaid cards are us or whatever it is. Um, and so you go in and it says, activate my card. And it asks you to type in the card number and the expiration date pretty and the three digit code. Okay.

Joey Coleman (28:29): We know this game.

Dan Gingiss (28:30):
So I hit submit and I get an error message and it says, invalid expiration date. I’m like, Oh, okay, hold on. Let me check. It was only four numbers. I go back, Oh four slash two, one. I’m like, okay. I typed in Oh four slash two on what do you mean in valid? And it won’t even let me resubmit it because now the submit button has been great out until obviously I make some sort of a change and I’m like, Whoa, what do I do? And so I started playing around and I should say, I spent almost three years at discover, heading up digital customer experience. So the way I run a website,

Joey Coleman (29:07):
You know your way around a website and particularly, you know, your way around a website around activating a card.

Dan Gingiss (29:13):
Well, actually that’s so true.

Joey Coleman (29:15):
So you have hyper relevant experience.

Dan Gingiss (29:17):
I do. I do. And so I cut to the chase. The website wanted me to enter the expiration date as Oh four slash 2021. In other words, month, month slash year, year, year, year. But number one, I’ve never seen an expiration date on a credit or debit or prepaid card that has the four digits. And number two, that’s not what this card says. So card says the, uh, the expiration date is Oh four slash two one. So why in the world would a programmer require a four digit year in order to submit this successfully? And so that got me thinking about a number of different things. First of all, when you have an error message on your website, it is so critical. And I worked on this a lot at discover. It is so critical that you tell people what is the error? You can’t just say error or, you know, invalid expiration with no explanation. All it needed to say was please enter the expiration date as M M slash. Why, why, why, why? And I would have known exactly what to do. It’s like when we forget our password and you know, they only tell you about the 27 rules of the password when you set it, but not when you can’t remember,

Joey Coleman (30:32):
You’d write away. Remember this is one of those times where you needed to use an uppercase and lowercase and a number and not the name of anyone related to you or that you’ve ever met. Oh, great. Great. That’s my cue that it’s “password4” is the answer.

Dan Gingiss (30:48):
Exactly. Exactly. So air messages actually are, it’s one of these forgotten parts of the user experience in digital because error messages happen all the time. And if you don’t program your website correctly, or you don’t give it a lot of thought, oftentimes it’s an error message. It’ll show up just in red letters. And it won’t say anything specific. It’ll just say error. And, um, I had one situation. I recall where there was, uh, the error message did not show up when people had expanded their screens had zoomed in their screens more than a hundred percent, the error message fell off the screen. So we had people that were getting error messages and literally couldn’t see the error message

Joey Coleman (31:28):
Message to them. Yeah. These are things,

Dan Gingiss (31:30):
These things sound small people, but they’re a really big, it can be a very frustrating pain point for a customer.

Joey Coleman (31:39):
And we talk about empathy a lot on this show. And frankly, the reason we talk about empathy is because we need to talk about it a lot, because most organizations aren’t showing empathy for their customers. I think this is a great example of really connecting with the frustration that a customer would feel when something goes wrong. We’ve all been in that position. As you alluded to earlier, Dan, where something is wrong on the form, and we’re not sure what it is. And we’re sitting there trying to figure it out. And if it’s something that we really want, we’re going to invest a lot of

time trying to figure it out. And if it’s something that we don’t care about, we’re going to move on to the next thing. And either way your brand loses, because either I’ve moved on or I’ve had to fight to stay there. And now I’m irritated at you.

Dan Gingiss (32:23):
Absolutely. And remember, I’m in the process of self-serving here, right? So I’m not using up your customer service time or dollars or resources because I’m self-serving. And yet you’re preventing me from doing that. The other thing that crossed my mind on this, and since we are listeners now know that you recently moved back to Iowa, I’m gonna let you tell your silo joke. One more time for a sec.

Joey Coleman (32:45): Should I do it right now?

Dan Gingiss (32:47): Go for it.

Joey Coleman (32:47):
Okay. I’m ready. So ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls silos work fantastically on the farm, but they are a nightmare in your organization. Leave the silos on the farm. We don’t need them in your company.

Dan Gingiss (33:02):
Absolutely. And I would say that in this case, almost guaranteed, there were silos in the organization. One silo was in charge of sending out the card and the mailing that didn’t tell me who it was from and another silo was responsible for the website and those two silos didn’t talk. And thus, one of them has a two digit year on the expiration date. And one of them has a four digit deer year. And again, I know this sounds like it’s really small, but the little details add up and they make a big difference because really we should be trying to frustrate our customers when Joey, uh, that it would be certainly less, if not, never on that for her, we don’t, we never want to frustrate our customers. And so any time we were doing that, even inadvertently, we gotta be aware of it and fix it. So look, people, listeners, and companies around the world. If you’d like to keep sending me prepaid cards, I am fine with it. I will work my butt off to activate them online. If you want to keep sending me free money, but do yourself a favor, make it easier on the customer and check your work with the other silos in your company or better yet. Knock down those silos and design the experience together.

[SHOW OUTRO]
Joey Coleman (34:20):
Wow! Thanks for joining us for another episode of Experience This!

Dan Gingiss (34:25):
we know there are tons of podcasts to listen, to magazines and books to read, reality TV to watch. We don’t take for granted that you’ve decided to spend some quality time listening to the two of us.

Joey Coleman (34:34):
We hope you enjoyed our discussions and if you do, we’d love to hear about it. Come on over to ExperienceThis Show.com and let us know what segments you enjoyed, what new segments you’d like to hear. This show is all about experience, and we want you to be part of the Experience This Show!

Dan Gingiss (34:52):
Thanks again for your time and we’ll see you next week for more…

Joey Coleman (34:55): Experience.

Dan Gingiss (34:55): This!