This Just Happened

We love telling stories and sharing key insights you can implement – or avoid! – based on our experiences. Can you believe that THIS JUST HAPPENED?!

Episode 134 – A Clear Path Forward to Better Experiences

Join us as we discuss one of the greatest CEOs of this generation sharing his final thoughts, the common path to uncommon success, and a listener takes on customer reviews — every last one of them.

Earthing, Pathing, and Responding – Oh My!

Referenced in the Show

• Jeff Bezos’ Final Letter to Amazon Shareholders
• The Common Path to Uncommon Success: A Roadmap to Financial Freedom and Fulfillment – by John Lee Dumas
Fuse Lenses

Host Contact Information

Email Dan: Dan@dangingiss.com

Tweet Dan Gingiss: @DGingiss

Email Joey: JoeyC@JoeyColeman.com

DanGingiss.com

JoeyColeman.com

Subscribe to Experience This on Apple Podcasts

Learn more about our Season 7 Partner – Solvvy – The NextGen Chatbot

Episode Transcript

Download a machine-transcribed, barely edited transcript of Episode 134 here or read it below:
(if anything doesn’t make sense or you have any questions about the transcript – just Contact us!)

Joey Coleman (00:03):
Welcome to Experience This!

Dan Gingiss (00:07):
The podcast that celebrates remarkable customer experiences and inspires you to stand out from the competition by wowing your customers.

Joey Coleman (00:17):
Each episode, we bring you a healthy dose of inspiring stories, funny interactions, and practical takeaways. Marketing and customer experience thought leader, Dan Gingiss…

Dan Gingiss (00:30):
shares the mic with customer retention and employee experience expert, Joey Coleman, helping you to get people talking about your business.

Joey Coleman (00:40):
So get ready, because it’s time to Experience This!

Dan Gingiss (00:48):
Get ready for the final episode of Season Seven of the Experience This Show!

Joey Coleman (00:54):
Woo hoo! Join us as we discuss: one of the greatest CEOs of this generation sharing his final thoughts, the common path to uncommon success, and a listener takes on customer reviews – every last one of them.

Dan Gingiss (01:12):
Earthing, Pathing, and Responding! Oh my!

Joey Coleman (01:20):
We love telling stories and sharing key insights you can implement, or avoid, based on our experiences. Can you believe that This Just Happened?!

Dan Gingiss (01:33):
Last month, as is his annual custom since 1997, Amazon CEO, Jeff Bezos sent a letter to shareholders. But this one was his last as CEO, as he’ll be handing over the reigns to Andy Jassy this fall and taking on the role of executive chairman. His last letter – all 4,000 words of it – details a plan for Amazon to become Earth’s Best Employer and Earth’s Safest Place to Work, in addition to its signature promise of being Earth’s Most Customer- Centric Company. It also shines light on Amazon’s Climate Pledge. The letter – which we’ll link to in our show notes at ExperienceThisShow.com – is well worth the read if you want to better understand why Amazon is so good at everything it does. Now, let’s break down some of the pieces. First, some absolutely astounding numbers: Amazon now hires 1.3 million people worldwide, which is up from 614 people in 1997.

Joey Coleman (02:40):
Small bit of growth!

Dan Gingiss (02:42):
It boasts more than 200 million Prime Mmbers. In 1997, it had a 1.5 million total customers. It today has more than 1.9 million small businesses that sell on Amazon and customers have connected more than a hundred million smart home devices to Alexa (I have to spell her, otherwise she’s going to go on while we’re recording!). Perhaps most impressively, Amazon had just gone public at a split adjusted stock price of, are you ready for this? $1.50 per share in 1997. Now, as of this recording, it trades at just above $3,200 per share with a market cap of more than 1.6 trillion (with a T) dollars. In case you’re wondering, I did the math for you, that is a tidy gain of 213,333%.

Joey Coleman (03:39):
Wow. Dan, I was told there would be no math, but I appreciate you doing the math for me. What an amazing story of growth. And what’s fascinating to me is, I for one often take Amazon for granted because it’s become ubiquitous in our lives. I was an early Amazon customer back when pretty much all they had were books. And it’s amazing to see how far they’ve come, which interestingly enough brings us to one of the second points we wanted to share from the letter. And that is, if you want to be successful in business, in life actually, you have to create more than you consume. Your goal should be to create value for everyone you interact with. Any business that doesn’t create value for those it touches, even if it appears successful on the surface, isn’t long for this world. It’s on the way out.

Dan Gingiss (04:31):
I love that. And, and when he talks about creating value, it’s not just about for customers. It’s for employees, it’s about vendors. It’s about the supply chain. It’s about the earth and, and creating value all over the place. And I think that one of the things that’s made Amazon successful is not only do they create this value, but they measure it. And in this letter, he goes into very fine detail about how they measure the value that they have created for each of those entities. Now, Amazon’s also frankly, been in the news lately regarding some allegedly working conditions, failed union votes and some other employee experience issues. And what I love about this letter is that Bezos takes those issues head on. He’s not hiding behind them. He says, quote, “[d]espite what we’ve accomplished, it’s clear to me that we need a better vision for our employees’ success. We’ve always wanted to be Earth’s Most Customer-Centric Company. We won’t change that – it’s what got us here – but I am committing us to, in addition, we’re going to be Earth’s Best Employer and Earth’s Safest Place to Work” unquote. He goes on to say, quote, “[i]f we want to be Earth’s Best Employer, we shouldn’t settle for 94% of employees saying they would recommend Amazon to a friend as a place to work. We have to aim for 100%.”

Joey Coleman (05:52):
You know, I think most organizations would love to have 94% of their employees recommend their place of work to a friend, but the fact that they are committed to aiming for a hundred percent and not resting on their laurels and continuing to push the envelope, I think speaks to the ethos of the organization and clearly what Bezos is hoping will continue as he transitions to being executive chairman and they kind of undergo some new leadership.

Dan Gingiss (06:24):
It also suggests that we’re never actually there at the destination. We can always do better because we’re not going to hit a hundred percent of anything, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t strive to be there. And if we’re at 94%, that’s awesome. We can rest on our laurels or we can try to get better. Even if that means getting to 96% or 97%.

Joey Coleman (06:45):
Yeah. Constant improvement and never being willing to settle. I absolutely love it. You know, there was another section you mentioned earlier, Dan, that, uh, Bezos really addresses some of the main issues of the day head on. And there was another section of the letter that really spoke to something that, not only has been a frequent conversation in many of our segments, this season on Experience This, but it’s actually been something we’ve been talking about since our podcast began. And that’s the impact of experience as it relates to the environment. And I quote, ‘[y]ou don’t have to say that photosynthesis is real, or make the case that gravity is real, or that water boils at a hundred degrees Celsius at sea level. These things are simply true. As is the reality of climate change. We launched the Climate Pledge together with global optimism in September of 2019, because we wanted to help drive this positive revolution. We need to be a part of a growing team of corporations that understands the imperatives and the opportunities of the 21st century. Now less than two years later, 53 companies representing almost every sector of the economy have signed the Climate Pledge. Signatories such as Best Buy, IBM, Infosys, Mercedes-Benz, Microsoft, Siemens, and Verizon have committed to achieve net zero carbon in their worldwide businesses by 2040 – ten years ahead of the Paris agreement.” You know, I absolutely love this. I love the bold commitment. I love the leadership. And I know some of the folks who are listening have really strong, uh, initiatives within your organizations to speak to climate change, I know we’ve talked about it in the past. This needs to be part of your employee and your customer experience. If you don’t start addressing this publicly in your products, in your services, I promise you, your customers are going to not be happy long-term this is a topic that needs to be addressed. And I love that they’re taking such a leading position on it.

Dan Gingiss (08:51):
I have to say one of the things that stuck out to me was that even the list that was shared in this quote, and that’s not obviously the entire list of 53 companies, but even within that smaller list, there’s a number of Amazon competitors. And I love that Amazon is brave enough, brazen enough, whatever you want to call it, dumb enough. I don’t think it’s dumb enough, but maybe to actually sign this thing with its competitors. To say like, look, everybody’s welcome under this tent because the earth is that important. And this is that important of an issue that even as competitors, we’ve all gotta be pedaling in the same direction on this issue. So I thought that was really cool. I’m gonna leave you with one more quote that I thought was more on the inspirational side and this was towards the end of the letter. I think he was getting a little melancholy and here’s what he said. Quote, ‘[w]e all know that distinctiveness originality is valuable. We are all taught to be yourself. What I’m really asking you to do is to embrace and be realistic about how much energy it takes to maintain that distinctiveness. The world wants you to be typical in a thousand ways, it pulls at you. Don’t let it happen. The world will always try to make Amazon more typical. To bring us into equilibrium with our environment. It will take continuous effort, but we can and must be better than that.” unquote. Now, Joey, I’m not going to impress you with my Rain Man skills here, I’m just going to read because there were too many of them. We’ve actually covered Amazon more than any other company on this show – which I think is not terribly surprising, given that it’s a show about customer experience. We’ve talked about Alexa in four different episodes, including our very first segment in our very first episode where we talked about our kids and how they used Alexa. We also referenced Alexa in episode 7, 11, and 91. We talked about the four star store in episode 68, the ghost store in 69, damage to items, uh, in episode 77, the returns process in episode 88, their credit card in episode 96, and their customer service in episode 97. And that all reminds me of an old commercial from when we were growing up from the shampoo company Pantene. And they had that woman in there that would say, “don’t hate me because I’m beautiful.” Do you remember those commercials?

Joey Coleman (11:05):
I do remember those commercials!

Dan Gingiss (11:07):
And I think that applies because honestly there’s a lot of Amazon haters out there and I say, don’t hate Amazon because it’s successful. And don’t try to out Amazon, Amazon. It’s the best at what it does. And I believe it always will be, but we can all learn from what they do well and apply those best practices to our own businesses. And that’s why we talk about Amazon so much is because we can all learn from them and we can all do a little bit better.

Joey Coleman (11:37):
We spend hours and hours, nose deep in books. We believe that everything you read influences the experiences you create. So we’re happy to answer our favorite question, What Are You Reading?

Joey Coleman (11:53):
So, Dan, I, haven’t gotten to ask you this in a while, what are you reading these days?

Dan Gingiss (11:59):
Well Joey, I just finished a fiction book, Ready Player Two, which I gotta say was not nearly as good as the original Ready Player One.

Joey Coleman (12:06):
The sequels are always so tough.

Dan Gingiss (12:07):
Yeah, they are. So I switched over to a business book. I try to go back and forth between fiction and non-fiction and I was introduced to today’s author by Amber Vilhauer, with whom I’m working to launch my own book in September. Now, when I met Amber for the first time, she was just coming off a successful launch of John Lee Dumas’ new book, The Common Path to Uncommon Success: A Roadmap to Financial Freedom and Fulfillment. So I thought to myself, self – I’d like financial freedom and fulfillment. So I decided to check it out now, before we get too far into it, though, we invited the author, John Lee Dumas to give us a synopsis of his new book. Here he is:

John Lee Dumas (12:49):
Hello! This is John Lee Dumas. I am the founder and host of Entrepreneurs on Fire, which is a podcast I launched back in 2012 and have since published over 3000 episodes, interviewing the world’s most successful entrepreneurs and Entrepreneurs on Fire now has generated over a hundred million listens over the past decade and I decided to take those interviews, those thousands and thousands of hours of conversations of learning from the world’s most successful entrepreneurs and put it into my first traditionally published book, The Common Path to Uncommon Success. The Common Path to Uncommon Success is a roadmap – a 17 step roadmap – to financial freedom and fulfillment. I took every single step and the roadmap that I’ve taken to turn Entrepreneurs on Fire into multimillion dollar business, as well as these 17 steps that every successful entrepreneur has utilized in their journey to turn their business, their life, into financial freedom and fulfillment and put it into the 17 chapters that comprise the common path to uncommon success. So if you are looking for your version of uncommon success, if you’re looking for your version of financial freedom and fulfillment, if you want the book that I spent 480 hours writing the 71,000 words, the 273 pages, that is a combination of all of the success of the entrepreneurs that I’ve interviewed over the past decade, comprised down into this 17 step roadmap, then the Common Path to Uncommon Success is for you. I hope you enjoy. There’s also a little bonus chapter by chapter 18. I call it the wealth of knowledge. It’s just the best passages and inspirational moments and motivational sayings that I’ve accrued over the past decade, running entrepreneurs on fire. So that’s is for you to go and dip your ladle into whenever you need to slake your thirst with some inspiration, some motivation and some wisdom from years past. So this is John Lee Dumas. I hope you check out The Common Path to Uncommon Success. I hope you find your version of financial freedom and fulfillment in the 17 step roadmap. May peace be with you.

Joey Coleman (15:15):
Uh, yes, indeed friends. Did you, did you hear that correctly? Dan? Did I get that right? 17 steps.

Dan Gingiss (15:22):
Yeah, that’s kind of what I thought at first too, but what’s cool about this book is how straightforward those steps are. I mean, the steps are, well, let’s just say you don’t have to build a lunar landing module or anything. They’re common as the title suggests, but they’re arranged in an order that makes sense and they’re accompanied by amazing success stories of real “entrepreneurs on fire” as Dumas calls them.

Joey Coleman (15:48):
Well, give us an example, if you would, Dan, of one of these 17 steps.

Dan Gingiss (15:52):
Well, I’m actually gonna start at the beginning, because it’s a very good place to start, and that is step number one, which is: Find Your Big Idea. And actually this is where I found my favorite passage that I wanted to read here. Here we go. “There are two mistakes people make when trying to identify their big idea. Mistake number one: they believe their big idea can be something they are just passionate about. I love muffins! I’ll open a bakery! Mistake number two: they believe their big idea is something they just have expertise in. I know how to code! I will build websites! Your big idea is not either, or. It’s not something you’re passionate about, or something you have expertise in. It’s both. Your big idea needs to be a combination of your passions and your expertise.

Joey Coleman (16:42):
You know, Dan, here we are one step in to the 17 step plan, and I got to say, I’m resonating with this. I’ve had the opportunity to interact with so many new business owners and young folks and old folks alike, starting out in their business journey and making that either or mistake, and let’s be candid, they’re not in business a few years later, or maybe even a few months later because they’re missing a key piece of the puzzle. You know, I think for you and I personally, customer experience really fits that definition for both of us. It’s something we’re hugely passionate about. We’re constantly on the look for new customer experience examples. We’re constantly doing our best to create new customer experience examples. And as a result that plus all of our work experience and our life experience kind of contributes to 20 to 30 to 40 years of perspective and expertise on this, depending on what angle we want to look at. You know, since I’m loving step number one, what are some of the other steps?

Dan Gingiss (17:46):
I’m still stuck on the 40 years – I didn’t know you were that Joey!

Joey Coleman (17:51):
Ha ha – I was talking about you, my friend!

Dan Gingiss (17:52):
You were adding ours together we’re you?! Well, some of the other steps include: Discovering Your Niche, Choosing Your Platform, Creating Content. And one in particular, drew my attention: Finding Your Mentor. Now I’ve personally found that to be very valuable in building my own business. Now Dumas says it’s best to find a mentor who is where you want to be in a year because presumably they can help you more tactically since they’ve just been where you are now.

Joey Coleman (18:23):
You know, Dan, I like that example. I I’m a big believer in the concept of a broad definition of you will of “mentor.” And since we talked a little bit about Greek mythology in the last episode, I’ll make a quick reference here. You know, mentor in Greek mythology was the character who was responsible for educating Odysseus’ son when he went off on his adventures, uh, his son Telemachus. And the thought of someone serving that role of being an educator, being a sage, being a guide, has always really resonated with me and my buddy Ryan Holiday has this interesting perspective on mentors that, your mentor doesn’t need to necessarily know that they’re your mentor. Sure there’s a whole wing of mentor/mentee relationships, where you meet and you kind of work together and they provide advice and guidance and assistance. But I also think there’s an opportunity to connect to mentors who you don’t know, but you admire. You follow their work. You look to their writing. You look to their example to their lives, uh, to the way they live their lives as a way to give you some ideas and maybe some guidance on the path as well.

Dan Gingiss (19:36):
Yeah. One thing I think I would add is that you and I have both tried in our careers to be mentors to others because we have received such great advice from our own mentors. And I would say in corporate America, I spent more time mentoring than I was mentored and, and that was actually one of the things that frustrated me is you get to a certain level in corporate America and they feel like you don’t need any help anymore. And I’m like, no, actually I would like one too. Can I have a mentor?

Joey Coleman (20:04):
Always ooking for more help!

Dan Gingiss (20:06):
Yeah. But I always tried to make sure that I was paying it forward. And I think one of the things I’m proudest of is that in my 20 years in corporate America, I left a lot of people, a lot of team members that looked at me as a mentor because I really tried to, I embrace that role and I tried to, to pass on as much information as I could get. And then when I went off on my own, it was super helpful to me to find a number of mentors that were willing to share their expertise and experience. So John Lee Dumas was kind enough to share his favorite passage of his book as well. So here he is, again, reading from The Common Path to Uncommon Success.

John Lee Dumas (20:44):
Courage doesn’t always roar. “Sometimes courage is a voice at the end of the day saying, ‘I will try again tomorrow’,” Mary Ann Radmacher. We’ve all seen those individuals full of fire and brimstone seemingly overflowing with confidence and courage within months, most have faded into oblivion. On the common path to uncommon success, courage is simply saying I did my best today. I will try again tomorrow. “Whatever you are not changing, you are choosing,” Laurie Buchanan. We make choices every day. Some choose to stay the same, to stay stagnant, to stay put. On the common path to uncommon success we choose to evolve, adjust, and adapt with the world around us. We choose to ask our audience what they need and provide the ever-changing solution. We choose financial freedom and fulfillment. “When one teaches, two learn.” Robert Hindlimb. You have knowledge to share with the world. When you share that knowledge, you are not only teaching others, but you are learning as well. You’re learning how to teach, how to solve the struggles of your students and how to apply your knowledge to impact the world. You’re learning the common path to uncommon success and setting the world on fire. “People do not decide their futures. They decide their habits and their habits decide their futures.” F.M. Alexander. Many people claim they want financial freedom and fulfillment above all else, but their habits don’t reflect their desire. Those who achieve financial freedom and fulfillment first identify the habits that will lead to uncommon success and implement those habits daily. Your daily habits are your building blocks to uncommon success. Identify. Implement. Execute. You got this.”

Dan Gingiss (22:28):
I don’t know about you, Joey, but I can definitely relate to this. In fact, as much as I like working for “the Dan” instead of “the man,” I do find that it can be tough to create and stick to good daily habits. When you know, you’ve got this really laid back boss who kind of lets you do whatever you want any day. And he’s really good looking,

Joey Coleman (22:46):
You know, Dan, you really do have a dashing boss for sure. You know, I agree with this idea of, you know, the daily habits. This is probably, at least for me personally, one of the most difficult parts of being self-employed. You know, we talked about this when we were referencing, The Self-Employed Life that my buddy Jeffrey Shaw wrote, and kind of this idea of what are your daily habits? What are your practices? What are the things you’re doing in your business? And I think this applies to those of us that are self-employed or running our own businesses, but it applies to everybody in their professional life. You know, the days of somebody watching over you, making sure you’re doing exactly what you’re supposed to do, as you get more experience, as you kind of move through an organization, the number of people, double checking your work and watching over you dramatically decreases and we really need to become our own habit setters and our own habit modifiers so that we can continue to advance and have the experiences we’re looking for.

Dan Gingiss (23:53):
Agreed. So if you too are self-employed or building a business or have that entrepreneurial spirit check out The Common Path to Uncommon Success by John Lee Dumas. And here’s hoping that you find your own path to success.

Joey Coleman (24:09):
Almost everyone has interacted with chatbots, but all too often, it’s been a bad experience. In MythBusters, presented by Solvvy, we explore a common myth about CX chatbots and see how the right technology can create a positive experience every time.

Dan Gingiss (24:34):
Today’s myth about chatbots? Chatbots are easy to build on your own. You’ve got a few engineers and some smart folks at your company. So it shouldn’t be that hard to build your very own chatbot right? Wrong! This approach, building versus buying, happens more than you’d think. Perhaps it’s because working on chatbots and automation sounds like a cool and interesting project while it might seem like building a bot yourself versus buying it from an established vendor is a way to save yourself a bit of money in the short run – don’t get caught in this trap!

Joey Coleman (25:03):
The reality is it can take months, or even longer, to build a useful chat bot on your own. Building a chat bot is not a trivial or inexpensive project. You’ll need significant engineering resources and you have no guarantees of success when you do finish – if you finish! You may build a chat bot that can’t understand customer questions well or offers incorrect answers. You might even need to bring in expensive outside consultants or experts to rebuild your bot – which only delays things further and greatly increases your cost.

Dan Gingiss (25:38):
The smarter, easier, move is to leave chatbot technology in the hands of the experts who’ve already done years of work like our friends at Solvvy. Rather than taking on the risk of trying to build a chat bot internally, working with a reputable, modern chat bot company will guarantee your customers are delighted, your team is supported, and everyone wins.

Joey Coleman (25:58):
If you’re thinking about building a chat bot yourself, I’d strongly recommend you rethink that and have your team focus on what they’re best at while leaving chat bot creation to the pros.

Dan Gingiss (26:10):
That’s another MythBusted, thanks to our friends and podcast supporters at Solvvy – the NextGen chatbot. Visit them at Solvvy.com – that’s S-O-L-V-V-Y.com.

Joey Coleman (26:25):
You listen to us… now we want to listen to you. By visiting our website and sharing your remarkable customer experiences with us, we can share them with a broader audience. Now sit back and enjoy our Listener Stories.

Dan Gingiss (26:45):
I think people are catching onto the fact that we love Listener Stories because we are getting so many great ones. Oh, they’re fabulous. Love these now today’s story is from Rosina Cavano. Let’s hear what she has to say:

Rosina Cavano (27:01):
Hi, my name is Rosina Calvano and I work for Fuse Lenses in Clearwater, Florida as a customer service director. Over the last few years, we have started to really understand our customers and the fact that they most likely will not reach out to us if there’s an issue with their order. We started measuring our customer satisfaction by how they rated the product, the customer service interaction, and if they would recommend our company to their friends and family. This is called our ACS or “aggregate customer service” score. We are able to see where any issues may be and work on that area. If a customer leaves a negative review or mentions any issues at all, I will reach out to them daily and identify the issue, apologize, provide a resolution in any way I can, and then provide points toward new orders or compensation. Most of the customers are not expecting any response so this is a happy surprise for them. We get a lot of responses where they say there are customers for life just based off of our customer service. Our customer service mission statement is to “actively create a community of raving fans through compassionate service” and with this, we intend on elevating our customer service to the highest it can be. Thank you for allowing me the time to speak and I love your show!

Dan Gingiss (28:15):
Rosina – we love you too and thank you for your awesome contribution and also for the great work that you’re doing for your customers. Now, Rosina shared some additional detail with us in an email that followed her audio contribution. She told us that Fuse Lenses replaces sunglass lenses for all brands and that her main job is to reach out to every customer who has left a review. And she did say that many of those are negative ones, but she reaches out to them to provide a solution. She says that she finds that “most of our customers who had simple issues did not reach out directly because it was too much work” unquote, but they also didn’t expect anything. She then told us quote, “the response I get is amazing and they are so happy. We turn negative experiences into positive ones and create raving fans,” unquote. She also mentioned that she reaches out to the positive reviews and she sends them a surprise just for spreading the word. Her final quote, “focusing on our customers primarily has brought us so much more business.”

Joey Coleman (29:27):
Oh, Dan, I love every piece of Rosina story and you know, the additional context she gave us with the email, you know, where to begin here. It really is about thinking of your reviews and the customer comments that you get as a way to deepen the connection with them, whether those are positive reviews or negative reviews. And this whole idea of, you know, so many customers having simple issues that they don’t reach out directly? Here’s the kicker. Those people then have a negative experience of your brand and may not decide to buy anymore. You know, we actually had an experience just this last week where we bought from a brand that is very well known for its remarkable customer experience. And in typing the address into the e-commerce site that we had never shopped at before, there was a typo in the address. So the package actually got delivered to a house that is like 20 minutes away from where we live. And I said to my wife, you know, she explained this to me and she’s like, ah, I was wondering if we should just eat it or what we should do. Like, you know, it was a small thing. It’s kind of annoying. We’ll figure it out. And I was like, you know, we have to at least give them the chance. A bunch of your customers aren’t going to give you the chance. So if we follow up on the opportunities, I think we have a ton of possibility that we’re able to create with these type of interactions and outreach efforts.

Dan Gingiss (30:55):
Oh, I couldn’t agree more. I mean, you know, usually this phrase is used for something else, but “it’s the silent, but deadly ones that absolutely kill us,” right? These are the customers that leave and never even tell us that they left, that they left or why they left. They just go to the competition because they’re upset about something. I actually appreciate far more, the ones that complain because complainer’s complain when they care, they actually want you to find a solution for them. They want to continue doing business with you. They want to keep paying money to you, but they need your help. And if we look at complaints that way, instead of being afraid of them, then we have so much value to gain because we’re listening to customers, tell us, “Hey, if you would just either stop doing this or start doing something else, my experience would be a whole lot better.” CX folks – they’re basically doing your job for you! They’re telling you what they need in order for a better customer experience to occur. I also really loved two concepts that were in my first book, winning at social customer care, which is a respond to everyone. Every person who leaves a review or a social media comment or a comment on your website, every person deserves a response at least. And number two is also respond to the positive ones. There are so many companies that forget about this, and the reason is very simple in the history of contact centers. Almost no one has ever called the toll free number to say something nice. And when I speak to audiences of customer service agents, I always make a joke about like, when’s the last time you picked up the phone and somebody said, “Hey, I’m just calling to tell you, you did a great job” and they’ll laugh, right? Cause it never happens. But when social media came onto the scene, people started talking about the good experiences that they have as well. And they’re throwing compliments left and right about their favorite brands and so many of those brands ignore them. And it’s such a missed opportunity – let alone it’s a chance of turning a happy customer into a sad one. So I love everything that Rosina is doing as well! Rosina, thank you so much for sending us your Listener Story. We are sending you a copies of our books to say thank you. And that we really appreciate you submitting it. If you’d like to submit your listener story to us, just go to ExperienceThisShow.com, click on the contact link. And there is an opportunity to leave us an audio voicemail. Just record it, send it. Don’t worry if it’s not perfect, that’s totally fine. We’ll make you sound good and we’ll talk about your Listener Story next season on Experience This!

Dan Gingiss (33:26):
My goodness, Joey, another season in the books! Seven seasons, 134 episodes… Who would have ever thunk it?!

Joey Coleman (33:36):
Well, I don’t know that we would have thunk it Dan! You know, when our friend Jay Baer suggested we pair up to do a podcast while we were all hanging out at a happy hour mixer years ago, we honestly had no idea that we’d still be at it today.

Dan Gingiss (33:50):
That is true. And this season was a success in no small part due to the support of our season sponsor – Solvvy – the NextGen Chatbot that also helped us bust a whole bunch of myths about chatbots this season. Thank you, especially to Kahn Ersin, Bob Grohs, and Ron Wilcox.

Joey Coleman (34:10):
Season Seven also would not have happened without the continued support of our house, musician and lawyer, extraordinary, Davin Seamon and the fine folks that keep our online presence sparkling the team at Yoko Co. We also owe a huge debt of gratitude to all of our book report authors for sharing their wisdom, their insights, and their vocal variety with the show.

Dan Gingiss (34:33):
You may not know it, but there are actually two Dans who make this show come to life. Thank you to our incredible sound engineer, Daniel Romeros also known as “Dr. Podcast,” who does all of our post-production work and let’s face it, makes us sound really good.

Joey Coleman (34:49):
And as we say every year, because we truly mean it from the bottom of our hearts, thanks to you, our loyal listener. Whether you shared your personal experience with us as a part of a Listener Story segment; or submitted questions for our newest segment this season, Ask Us ,; whether you shared the show with your friends or you left us a review online, or even just tuned in week after week to listen to the show… we can’t thank you enough. You are taking actions to improve the customer experience in your organization every day and we want you to know that we’re here to support you, to encourage you, to inspire you, and to applaud you every day. YOU are why we do this and your continued support means the world to us.

Dan Gingiss (35:33):
So we’re going to be back in the fall for Season Eight. Look for us right after Labor Day in the United States, that is after the first week in September. And Hey, while you’re enjoying the summer weather and you’re on the beach, or you’re doing whatever it is you do outside, one of the things we’d like you to do is check out our other show, called Experience Points. Now we do this with our friends at Avtex. It is a game show on customer experience. It is an incredible amount of fun. We have amazing contestants – people that you know, and if you follow customer experience, you’ve definitely heard of these folks. You’ve seen them all over the place, but most of all, it is the most fun you can have talking about customer experience, possibly with the exception of listening to Experience This, but it is available in both video form on YouTube, go to AvtexSolution or also in audio on your favorite podcast app, or hey, to make it easy, just go to ExperiencePointsGame.com and check out Joey and Dan, over the summer, you got a bunch of episodes you can catch up on if you really miss us.

Joey Coleman (36:36):
Now, if you really want to be an overachiever and do kind of a variation of summer school, or have an assignment that you can work on over the summer… You know, we debated whether we should mention this, but we were inspired by Rosina’s example in our last Listener Story segment, we’d love it. It would mean the world to us. If, when you’re done listening to this episode, you’ve listened to so many, so many of you have listened to so many and yet we’d love to hear what you think of the show. Leave us a little message on the contact page of, of our website or better yet go and write a review so that your experience with the show can be shared with other potential listeners to the show. Now, the way the algorithms work, if you write reviews, our podcast shows up higher in search results for people looking to learn how to enhance their customer experience, learning how to take their employee experience to the next level, learning how to make hopefully the interactions that we have with businesses, with non-profits, with government entities, better because of commitments to experience. Now we’re going to start something next season where we’re going to share some of our favorite reviews and we had one come in the other day that just made Dan and I so thrilled, and it just energizes us as we get ready to do our recording. So this review came from ampy1000 in the United States.

Dan Gingiss (38:00):
Yeah! Thank you ampy1000!

Joey Coleman (38:03):
Thank you, ampy1000. Love your name and the ampy1000, if you’re listening, message us on the page so we can tell you about some other fun things we’d like to do. Here’s the review:

ampy1000 (38:12):
“Brilliant engaging CX podcast. I’ve been listening to a LOT of CX podcasts recently, and I have to say that the amount of smart, insightful content that I get from Experience This is unrivaled. On top of that, Joey and Dan are exceptionally good storytellers and keep me so engaged I find myself surprised I’ve already listened to the whole episode. 10 out of 10 would recommend for anyone in the CX space.”

Dan Gingiss (38:41):
Ah – fantastic ampy1000! We appreciate you. And as Joey said, reach out to us on the show page – we’d like to send you some special goodies for that awesome review. Hey everyone – Get Ready for Season Eight of the Experience This Show coming to you this September! We’ll have all new customer experience stories to share, recommended books to read, and hopefully more awesome content from you – our listeners. Until then, have a great summer, stay safe, and we’ll see you in the fall for more…

Joey Coleman (39:12):
Experience This!

Joey Coleman (39:19):
Thanks for joining us for another episode of Experience This! You are the best listener ever!

Dan Gingiss (39:25):
And since you listened to the whole show…

Joey Coleman (39:27):
Yay you!

Dan Gingiss (39:29):
We’re curious… Was there a specific part of this episode that you enjoyed the most? If so, it would mean the world to us if you could share it with a coworker, a friend, or someone that just loves listening to podcasts.

Joey Coleman (39:39):
And while you’re in the sharing mood, if you felt inclined to jump over to iTunes, or wherever you find your podcasts and write us a review, we would so appreciate it. And when you do, don’t forget to let us know as we might have a little surprise for you.

Dan Gingiss (39:55):
Thanks again for your time and we’ll see you next week for more.

Joey Coleman (39:58):
Experience.

Dan Gingiss (39:58):
This!

Episode 133 – Forget Their Shoes – Step Into Your Customers’ Headphones

Join us as we discuss creating a workplace that employees and customers love, making your big ideas irresistible, and the power of a protagonist playlist.

Consistency, Connections, and Crescendos – Oh My!

Referenced in the Show

I Love It Here: How Great Leaders Create Organizations Their People Never Want to Leave – by Clint Pulver
Find Your Red Thread: How to Make Your Big Ideas Irresistible – by Tamsen Webster
Perfectly Parvin – by Olivia Abtahi
Perfectly Parvin Protagonist Playlist

Host Contact Information

Email Dan: Dan@dangingiss.com

Tweet Dan Gingiss: @DGingiss

Email Joey: JoeyC@JoeyColeman.com

DanGingiss.com

JoeyColeman.com

Subscribe to Experience This on Apple Podcasts

Learn more about our Season 7 Partner – Solvvy – The NextGen Chatbot

Episode Transcript

Download a machine-transcribed, barely edited transcript of Episode 133 here or read it below:
(if anything doesn’t make sense or you have any questions about the transcript – just Contact us!)

Joey Coleman (00:05):
Welcome to Experience This!

Dan Gingiss (00:07):
The podcast that celebrates remarkable customer experiences and inspires you to stand out from the competition by wowing your customers.

Joey Coleman (00:17):
Each episode, we bring you a healthy dose of inspiring stories, funny interactions, and practical takeaways. Marketing and customer experience thought leader, Dan Gingiss…

Dan Gingiss (00:30):
shares the mic with customer retention and employee experience expert, Joey Coleman – helping you to get people talking about your business.

Joey Coleman (00:40):
So get ready because it’s time to Experience This!

Joey Coleman (00:48):
Get ready for another episode of the experience, this show!

Dan Gingiss (00:55):
Join us as we discuss creating a workplace and employees and cut love, making your big ideas, irresistible and the power of a protagonist playlist.

Joey Coleman (01:06):
Consistency, Connections, and Crescendos! Oh my!

Joey Coleman (01:16):
We’re excited to give you an overview of an important book you should know about as well as share some of our favorite passages as part of our next Book Report

Joey Coleman (01:29):
I have a riddle for you Dan… What do you get when you combine a drummer, a seasoned expert with the youthful features of someone, at least a decade younger and a commitment to bringing out the best in people.

Dan Gingiss (01:40):
A trophy winning talent show entry?

Joey Coleman (01:46):
Well that’s that may in fact be true. But what I was going for is Clint Pulver. Clint is a professional keynote speaker, musician, pilot, and workforce expert, who in the interest of full disclosure, is also a friend of mine from the speaking circuit. Clint is an amazing human with feature film credits, and appearance on America’s Got Talent, and he even won an Emmy for his short film, “Be a Mr. Jensen.” So he’s really kind of an underachiever in every area of life. But recently he became the author of our featured book report today, a brand new book titled “I Love It Here: How Great Leaders Create oOrganizations Their People Never Want to Leave.” Now I’ve been eagerly anticipating this book for some time. Now we talk regularly on the show about how customer experience and employee experience are two sides of the same coin. And if you enhance the employee experience, you’ll enhance the customer experience. If your customer experience is lacking, I can almost guarantee your employee experience is lacking too, which is why I wanted to feature a book on employee retention, because I know that it will help our listeners with their customer retention as well. Now, before we dive into some of the specific gems in, I love it here. Let’s hear from the author, Clint Pulver, as he gives us an overview of the book.

Clint Pulver (03:08):
For the last five years, I have conducted research as the undercover millennial. Think of it kind of like undercover boss. Have you ever seen the TV show? It’s like that without the makeup I, myself, as the author, MN millennial, I’m a fairly young person, but that gave me the opportunity because of my age to go into organizations undercover as someone who was looking for a job. We have worked with hundreds of organizations and I have interviewed thousands of employees as the “undercover millennial” understanding what works and what doesn’t work in an organization. The magic of this book is that it’s not another leadership book written by a self-proclaimed leadership expert. This is a book that’s written by 10,000 employees who knew when their leaders were getting it right. When I would walk into an organization and say, you know, what’s it like to work here? I’m thinking about applying. They would give me honest feedback – because I wasn’t a survey. The research was not something that was done on a one-on-one management meeting level. This was real. It was authentic. And I believe we’ve captured the most real inauthentic data behind how great leaders were creating organizations that their people never wanted to leave. That’s why we decided to title the book, “I Love It Here.” When I would go undercover in an or into an organization, that was the magic is when an employee would say, “I love it here. I love my job. You should apply.” And the reasons behind that response, the book is about what great leadership looks and feels like to the people that experience it every day. It’s the power of mentorship over management. How do we create experiences and opportunities at work where people don’t just survive, but they can actually thrive. They don’t just love their job, but they love who they are while they’re at their job. That’s what “I Love It Here” talks about and trains leaders on how to become that for their people.

Dan Gingiss (05:16):
So Joey, one thing that I absolutely love about what Clint just said there, you may remember that we featured a book by my friend, Chris Strub, actually, I think he’s been featured a couple of times on this show and I met Chris at a conference and we were sitting in a breakout room and there was a panel that was called “Marketing to Millennials”

Joey Coleman (05:39):
always a good one to get people, to show up with a title like that!

Dan Gingiss (05:42):
Well, being the smart gen X-er that I am, I decided to sit between two millennials. There was a young woman to my left in a and Chris dropped to my right. And I leaned over to Chris during the presentation. And I said, does it strike you as odd that this is a panel entitled marketing to millennials? And yet there are no millennials up on the stage. And he said, yes, that does strike me as odd. And so I already love the fact that Clint is not just, she mentioned another self-proclaimed leadership expert teaching us about millennials, right? He’s a lot more believable.

Joey Coleman (06:21):
He really is. Not only is he a lot more believable given his standing as a millennial, but this is a guy who has he mentioned in the overview, did the homework. I mean, thousands of undercover interviews where he figured out what actually makes organizations tick. Now at the end of the day, this connection between what’s going on with your employees and what’s going on with your customers often gets overlooked. I know it’s something that you and I talk about a lot Dan. We talk about it a lot here on the podcast. But in many organizations, there’s a big disconnect between the employee experience and the customer experience, which is why I wanted to devote some time in our conversation today to the book. Now I know Dan that you had a particular passage from the book that you really enjoyed. If I may be so bold, I think it was your favorite passage. Would you mind sharing that with our listeners?

Dan Gingiss (07:14):
I will but I’m going to warn you Joey, it’s a little bit longer than most of the passages that I share, but I think that the juice will be worth the squeeze.

Joey Coleman (07:21):
Ooo – I like it!

Dan Gingiss (07:22):
I like it. All right. All right, here we go. And I quote, “Organizations can create a culture of ownership by giving employees the autonomy to help clients in whatever ways seem appropriate. One of the better examples of this was done by Rob Farrell, a successful dental surgeon and a fantastic leader. Rob has always strived to be in tune with the concerns and needs of his organization and the people involved. He’s created a culture in his office in which all of his employees have the freedom to provide imaginative and caring customer service in the hopes of creating a greater experience for his customers. One of the ways he facilitated this was by setting up a cash box in what she keeps money, gift cards, candy, and other miscellaneous items. This box and its contents are available to everyone on his staff to use for whatever purpose they feel is necessary to serve their customers and make them feel taken care of. On one occasion, a woman came into the dental clinic who had been suffering for years with periodontal infections and was slowly losing her teeth. She had expressed several times the ongoing blow. This was having to herself esteem and how it made it hard to smile or even wish to smile. It had also caused some complications that had restricted her from eating any type of solid food for over 20 years. “I would give anything to be able to eat corn on the cob again,” she said at one of her initial appointments, after several visits, which included getting implants, the woman started showing up to her appointments with a smile on her face – one that grew bigger and bigger each time as she proudly showed off her teeth and her healing gums. On the way out of her last dental appointment, one of Rob’s employees stopped her at the door and graciously handed her a bag. Inside the bag were 12 fresh ears of corn. The woman began to weep at the gesture. Not only was her mouth almost fully healed. She also couldn’t believe that her dental surgeons assistants had listened and then remembered something that seemed like such a small passing comment. Yes, it had been small, but it had so much value to her. And this assistant had noticed that she hugged the young employee in each of the staff members and went back to hug Rob, before she left the office for the final time, “I’ll tell everyone about you,” she cried as she left. And she has. It’s important to note that this young employee did not perform this gesture for a better review, from a satisfied customer, or to get the word out about their dental office. She did it because her employer had enabled her to take ownership and make decisions about what it took to care deeply for their patients. When the woman came back to hug Rob, he was unaware that his employee had taken money from the cash box and slipped out for 15 minutes to buy some corn for his patient. He was also unaware that his staff had heard the patient speak of her love for corn, but he didn’t need to. His employees knew they were empowered to serve and care for their clients. In whatever ways they felt would make a difference.

Joey Coleman (10:07):
Oh my goodness, you selected the passage that includes dental surgery and corn on the cob?! I absolutely love it. That juice was definitely worth the squeeze. Thankfully it was not corn juice that we’re drinking there, but I love every bit about that story. You know, so many organizations are trying to create remarkable customer experiences by detailing scripts or creating these kinds of, “well if X happens, then do Y” scenarios. And what we really need to do is recognize, and I think Clint outlines this so beautifully in that example is figure out more ways to give our employees autonomy, to trust them, to create the kind of remarkable experiences that we know they can create and to empower them with time with resources, you know, with a box of cash, whatever it may be to go above and beyond. You know, if anything, I think what we’ve learned over the course of the last year and a half is that our past thoughts about employee work policies and procedures need to be revisited and need to be reconsidered. And because of that, it will probably come as no surprise that my favorite passage from the book is all about the importance of re-imagining the definition of workplace flexibility. As Clint writes, and I quote, “The days of working a strict nine to five schedule five days a week are quickly fading away with the disruption of COVID-19. Many teams were forced into remote environments and normal work schedules disappeared completely – an event that highlighted both how much workplaces need to be prepared for the unexpected and how much it turns out we can flex when we need to. Employees are now looking for and needing more flexibility to meet the various demands, both inside and outside the workplace. Our research has shown that significant leaders who value and understand that employees have a life outside of their work, are consistently cherished and appreciated by their workforce. Instead of enforcing a strict schedule, according to past ideals and expectations, let your people dictate their own schedules. Give them ownership of their time. Certainly there are deadlines to be met and parameters that need to be maintained, meetings to be attended, appointments to be kept, communications that need to happen… but if employees can meet, and perhaps exceed, your expectations for performance and collaboration, while varying their schedules, that flexibility can go a long way in retaining their loyalty.

Dan Gingiss (12:44):
You know, it’s interesting because Clint points out that some of this flexibility emerged out of the COVID-19 pandemic, but he’s absolutely right that even when we returned back to work this flexibility, we’ve sort of all gotten used to it. And everything that I’ve read has said that people are more, not less productive while they’ve been working from home with a little bit more flexibility when somebody isn’t clocking them in and out every day. And yeah, they may have to stop to walk the dog or feed the crying baby or whatever it is, but that people are actually working longer hours. They’re also working the hours that they would have spent commuting back and forth. So I think we’ve gotten used to having flexibility and that is going to need to continue in the post-COVID era. And obviously the thing that will remain the same is that by staying flexible and keeping our employees happy, they’re better equipped to keep our customers happy. You know Joey, it’s the little things done consistently over time that I think really contribute to a remarkable customer or employee experience. Now, when we asked Clint to share his favorite passage from the book, he connected the importance of consistency to the day-to-day behavior of leaders. Here’s Clint sharing his favorite passage from the book:

Clint Pulver (14:02):
The greatest part about your role in leadership is that it matters. The hardest part is that it matters every day. The best things in life are often brought about by small means consistently applied over time. Mentorship and leadership are no different. A mentor manager simply creates little individual moments, day-by-day, that changed the lives of those they lead in associate with in big ways and small. Creating an environment where the thought I love it here extends past the workplace and into the larger world is the opportunity you get every day. You get to see the opportunities, not just the problems. To give your people a chance to grow and to flourish, not only in your business, but in their larger lives as well. What privilege and an honor to use your position to create relationships and foster personal development that will last a lifetime. I’ve said it before, and I will say it here one last time. It’s not about being the best in the world, it’s about being the best for the world.

Joey Coleman (15:11):
“It’s not about being the best in the world. It’s about being the best for the world.” Oh man, I love that phrase. I love this book and I think you’re going to love it too. So make sure to pick up a copy of, “I Love It Here: How Great Leaders Create Organizations Their People Never Want to Leave” by Clint Pulver – or if you’re one of the first five people to message us via the Contact Page at ExperienceThisShow.com, we’ll send you a copy as our way of saying thank you for listening to Experience This. And we hope you love it here too! And if you follow Clint’s advice, we can promise that your employees and your customers will be saying, “I love it here” even more in the future.

Joey Coleman (15:53):
We spend hours and hours, nose deep in books. We believe that everything you read influences the experiences you create. So we’re happy to answer our favorite question: What Are You Reading?

Joey Coleman (16:09):
Do you remember learning about the story of Theseus and the Minotaur when you were in school Dan?

Dan Gingiss (16:18):
Um, let me… No. No I don’t.

Joey Coleman (16:21):
I love it. Everybody who’s listening just started to say, oh wait, there’s something wrong with the recording. What’s happening. It’s dragging off… Well, here’s the deal. It’s completely understandable if you don’t remember this story. I absolutely loved mythology as a kid. And so this story really resonated with me. Briefly, for those of you that may remember, Theseus finds himself needing to go into a labyrinth – basically an underground maze. And in the maze is this monster – a Minotaur. And he’s got to go in and slay the monster. And Theseus takes two tools into the cave with him or into the labyrinth maze to complete this quest: (1) a sword to slay the Minotaur and (2) a ball of thread so that as he goes through the labyrinth maze, he can unwind the thread behind him so that after he meets the Minotaur and hopefully defeats the Minotaur, he’ll be able to get his way back out of the maze. Well, this idea of using a throughline thread to connect every piece of a story is part of what drew me to the book. I just finished reading by the incredible Tamsen Webster. The book is called, “Find Your Red Thread: Make Your Big Ideas Irresistible.” And before I share a little bit more about why I decided to read this book and how useful it’s been to my work already, I thought it’d be a good idea to let the author Tamsen Webster, who incidentally is a dear friend of mine, given an overview of the book in her own words:

Tamsen Webster (17:56):
“Find Your Red Thread: Make Your Big Ideas Irresistible” is about what the subtitle says – how to make your big ideas irresistible. So let me start with what a big idea is in my mind, a big idea is any answer to a question that people haven’t been able to answer for themselves yet, which means a big idea can be actually huge on a global scale, or it can be actually huge on an individual scale because to the person who hasn’t been able to answer that question yet, yet your idea and its new different answer could in fact be world changing to them. So in the book, you’ll learn how to identify who your idea is really for who that person is. That can be best served by it. How to position your idea where it’ll be most effective as that answer to an important question and how to find that question. It’s also going teach you how to break your idea into its component parts, to improve your and your audience’s understanding of it. So that happens and the reason why I include that is that’s where the irresistible part comes in. When we hear new information, we process it as a story. Between every question and answer between every problem and solution lies a story. So this book shows you how to break your idea into those parts and strengthen those parts. So they not only create a story that your audience will tell themselves, but it’s going to be strong enough for you to build on. It’s also going to show you how to articulate those individual parts as key concepts that create and differentiate your message. And then two really important things: how to craft a 62nd minimum viable case for your idea, how to summarize it really quickly for people. And then finally, how to reduce that into a single irresistible sentence. What I like to call the through lineof your message or your minimum viable message. Whatever you take away from the book. I hope it’s your path to finding a way to get your big idea out in the world.

Dan Gingiss (19:55):
I love that phrase that Tamsen uses “between every question and answer, between every problem and solution, lies a story.” All too often, I think businesses tell a story in their marketing materials, but then quit telling stories the longer a customer is in a relationship with them. And we know that people respond to storytelling. In fact, when we read the reviews of this podcast, Joey people love the stories that we tell. And that’s why this podcast has been so popular with our listeners. Storytelling is a device that is not just reserved for marketers, but absolutely can be used throughout the experience as well.

Joey Coleman (20:36):
It’s so true, Dan and storytelling while fun for our listeners is also fun for you and me, and I think that’s the great thing about remarkable stories. It becomes an for the person who is hearing the story, but it can also be an experience for the person telling the story. Now, you know, Dan, I’ve known Tamsen for many years now and I’ve always marveled at her comprehensive knowledge and her expertise. But one thing that people really struggle with when they have a big idea. And let me tell you Tamsen has a bunch of big ideas is how to convince an audience to take action on those big ideas and change their behaviors. My favorite passage in the book occurs when Tamsen breaks down a clear process for getting your audience or your customers to do the things that you want them to do. And I quote, “[]there are three things in particular that your audience needs to understand and agree with before they’ll act on your change. What are they? First – that it’s possible to achieve the goal with the change you recommend. So you need to give your audience examples. They need to read, see, or hear stories and testimonials of your product, your service, or your ideas, helping others achieve the goal your audience also wants. Second – your audience needs to believe that it’s possible for them. You need to map the experiences of others on to your audience and their specific situation. This is where hands-on demonstrations of your idea come in handy. Even something as simple as asking them to imagine where in their life, the idea could work. Third – your audience needs to believe that the actions are worth it. Whenever you’re asking someone to change their thinking or behavior, you’re literally asking them to rewire their brains, to tell themselves a new and different story. If you’re talking to a prospective customer, you’re also asking them to part with some of their money. So they need to feel that the benefit of the change outweighs the risks or costs of it. Those risks and costs can be in effort, money, time, or even reputation. Your audience needs enough detail to determine that risk/word equation for themselves.

Dan Gingiss (22:48):
You know Joey, we talk about customer journey mapping on experience this all the time and Tamsen’s pson’s three-step process that she outlined in that passage you read is something every business should consider even if you believe you’ve already covered it. Do your customers believe that it’s possible to achieve their goals using the change you’re recommending? Do customers believe that it’s specifically possible for them? And finally, do they believe that the actions you’re asking them to take are worth it? Three powerful questions to consider for sure. Now, Joey, since you shared your favorite passage, I think we should also hear from Thompson, the author and her favorite passage…

Tamsen Webster (23:27):
The great British statesman, Winston Churchill, once said that we must learn to be equally good at what is short and sharp and what is long and tough. Most of us can eventually convey the power and possibility of our ideas given enough time. But you rarely have that kind of time. Even if you do, most people would be very happy for you to take less of it. We’ve already talked about why using story and story structure is the best way to speed things up. It uploads the code of your idea street into the story processors of your audience’s brain, because their brains don’t have to do the work of finding the story they’d be looking for. Anyway, you save a ton of time. That’s one benefit of using the form of a story, but another important function of a story is that it’s how we humans make conclusions about cause and effect. When X happens and creates Y result, story is the explanation our brains create to establish the relationship between the two professional storytellers know this concept. Well, in fact, a common refrain among novelists, playwrights and screenwriters is that a story is an argument. It’s a case for an idea. It’s the writer’s explanation of why things happened the way they do. The story is an argument concept is so deeply embedded that by simply finding the story of an idea or building one from scratch, you’re simultaneously building a case for it.

Joey Coleman (24:57):
Use story and structure to upload the code of your ideas straight into the story processors of your audience’s brain. Wow! I love that! Such a beautiful way to articulate the overall impact and power of story and how you can use story to take your business, to take your experiences to the next level. Such great advice. Friends – if you want to read a book that shows you the blueprint for navigating the mazes of your customer’s minds, in a way that will help you achieve your goals without getting lost, you must pick up a copy of Tamsen Webster’s powerful book, “Find Your Red Thread: Make Your Big Ideas Irresistible” – available at your favorite bookseller right now!

Joey Coleman (25:43):
Almost everyone has interacted with chatbots, but all too often, it’s been a bad experience. In MythBusters, presented by Solvvy, we explore a common myth about CX chatbots and see how the right technology can create a positive experience every time.

Joey Coleman (26:07):
Today’s myth about chatbots? Chatbots are only for large enterprises. You might think that all chatbots require massive investments of time, and money, and resources, and that this makes them far more appropriate for a big established enterprise company. If your support team isn’t huge, does it make sense to even consider implementing a chat bot?

Dan Gingiss (26:31):
Oh, it absolutely does Joey! Chatbots can be effective for companies of all sizes in all industries. Next gen chatbots can help any company from fast-growing startups to mid sized scale, their support by immediately handling a significant percentage of customer questions that don’t require a phone call, email or support agent. If you’re experiencing rapid growth, if you expect it soon, or if you navigate seasonal peaks, a chat bot can help your team provide consistently great customer experiences throughout all the ups and downs of demand.

Joey Coleman (27:04):
In terms of the investment. Next gen chat bots don’t require you to have a team of engineers and bot experts in-house. Intelligent chat bots, train themselves on your help content, and pass customer tickets, and continuously learn on their own. The top chatbots will deploy fast (think weeks not months), return your upfront investment quickly, and save you lots more money over time.

Dan Gingiss (27:32):
I’m sensing a common thread here Joey – chatbots can keep you out of the red – regardless of the size of your business – and that will get everyone on your team saying, “I love it here” even more!

Joey Coleman (27:44):
And that’s another Myth Busted thanks to our friends and podcasts supporters at Solvvy, the next gen chat bot. You can find them@solvvy.com. That’s S-O-L-V-V-Y.com.

Joey Coleman (28:00):
We love telling stories and sharing key insights you can implement, or avoid, based on our experiences. Can you believe that This Just Happened?

Joey Coleman (28:13):
How much YA literature do you read Dan?

Dan Gingiss (28:17):
Ah, I think you’re trying to get me with that YA acronym. No, no, I get it. It’s “young adult” and even though I haven’t been a young adult in a long time, but not as long as you, I, I definitely do read some of those books: the Harry Potter series, Hunger Games, Divergent… for sure. I’m all in.

Joey Coleman (28:39):
Well, I had a feeling and interestingly enough, my wife Berit reads, writes, and edits YA novels so I may have a little more exposure to this genre than most. Well, the reason I bring this up is because I’m on the email newsletter for an up and coming YA writer, Olivia Abtahi. Now in full disclosure, I had the pleasure of working with Olivia on a few occasions when she was a freelance copywriter back in the day and when I found out she was writing a novel, I was intrigued. Now I recently received an issue of her e-newsletter and realized there was an entire aspect of why a fiction that I had never heard of the protagonist playlist.

Dan Gingiss (29:20):
Wait, the protagonist playlist?! I definitely have never heard of that. I am intrigued as well.

Joey Coleman (29:27):
I am definitely not only intrigued, but curious how many times you and I can say protagonist playlist without stumbling over the words. Well, anyway, I asked Olivia to tell me more about this idea of a protagonist playlist and why she decided to create one for her upcoming novel. She described the situation as follows.

Olivia Abtahi (29:49):
So in a movie you have a soundtrack, right? And I feel like for a book you need something similar to help set the mood and tone. So for “Perfectly Parvin” – my novel coming out in May – you know, it’s with a 14 year old protagonist, I kind of want to put myself in her shoes. So I had some really kind of fun bubblegum pop tracks in there that not only helped me see the world through her eyes, but in my mind, I think those might be the songs that she’s listening to. So when she’s upset, what’s the song in that kind of wheelhouse that she would be listening to. What about when she’s happy or when you know, her crush texts her back? Like what is the song that she’s going to dance around to in her bedroom? So it really helps me just kind of center myself in the character. And another benefit is that when I’m working on different projects, if I am switching between, you know, an 18 year old protagonists to a 14 year old protagonist, you know, I have a playlist already queued up, that’s going to help put me in that world even if, you know, I only have 20 minutes of break between those different works.

Dan Gingiss (30:56):
Well, this is pretty fascinating. I mean, I love the idea of getting into her shoes. That’s obviously a CX concept and obviously in a music is sort of the great equalizer. It’s, it’s something that brings us all together. So I think it’s an interesting challenge that brands might have where they’re trying to approach different customer segments and music is a way that potentially can bring those different segments together or at least help us understand them better.

Joey Coleman (31:29):
Yeah, that’s what I was thinking is that if you almost thought of a different soundtrack for the different customer segments, that you served that in a similar way, that Olivia talks about centering in on the character, by listening to the kind of music the character would listen to, if that would give us that same type of ability to connect with the audiences and the customer segments that we serve. I do think that a playlist would create a much clearer understanding, especially for a customer base that you might not be a part of. And in fact, Olivia expanded on that particular point as well.

Olivia Abtahi (32:05):
I feel like kind of piggybacking off my first answer, a playlist can, for example, if you’re a parent and you are thinking of buying perfectly parodying for your daughter, let’s say there’s a track in the playlist that, you know, your daughter loves. I think that helps the parent know, oh, okay. Like this is in my kid’s world. If you’re just, you know, a fan of young adult in general and you’re like me and you’re addicted to Spotify, it’s just really fun to say, oh my gosh, like this girl is into Billie Eilish as well, like, I love that singer! Or there might be a moment in the book where, you know, you can think to yourself, oh yeah, that song makes sense. For example, there is a deportation scene in my book, spoiler alert, and I do have a song by the sweatshop boys called [inaudible], which is a song about being brown and Muslim in this country and being deported. And it’s like, that is like the perfect song for that scene in the book. So if you’re a reader or, you know, a subscriber to my newsletter, I got to send the playlist out and share it with people. And while there’s tons of fun, bubblegum pop dance music in there, there’s also like some raw scenes. So it was great to be able to have kind of this crescendo of emotion throughout the playlist. That can be like a good taster for the book.

Joey Coleman (33:22):
I absolutely love this idea of pairing music to specific emotions. In fact, I found myself wondering what it would be like to pair specific songs or styles of music, to the different phases of your customer journey. What parts of the journey might be the fun, bubblegum, pop dance moments. What parts of your customer journey are more intense? Maybe more melancholy? More raw? Where did the emotions crescendo so many things to consider when we pair music to the specific touch points of our customer journeys?

Dan Gingiss (33:55):
Yeah, I mean, it’s interesting because when I learned about customer journey mapping, I learned that one of the things you’re supposed to do is sort of observe and write in the customer emotion that’s going on during that part of the journey. So frustration or happiness or joy or anger or whatever it is, because then that helps you address that part of the experience. I’m also reminded, uh, back in Episode 107 – when we talked about the founders of Barefoot Wines and how they created those really cool audio books for, for business books that have music behind it, right? And it’s like, you don’t really think of a business book having music behind it, but then when you heard this dramatic music, it was like, oh wow. I’m like really into this story now. And I was also thinking about Episode 86 when we heard from the romance novelist, Allie Plighter and how she literally gets into the shoes of her protagonists, if you will, in her novels and her romance novels and goes out and remember she experienced bull riding and all this other things. And I think that understanding what the character’s music preferences are really gives a lot more depth to them. And similarly, as we’re developing our avatars or our, our segmentations, uh, personas, if you will, of our customers knowing the kind of music they listened to really tells you a lot about them.

Joey Coleman (35:34):
It really does Dan! And I think this concept could be particularly effective when we’re trying to connect with our younger customers. I know we talked about millennials earlier and how so many of the folks who are kind of running marketing departments are leading a lot of these customer experience initiatives might find themselves in a different demographic than the audience they serve. And Olivia explains her thoughts on why this idea of a protagonist playlist shows up more commonly in young adult literature, but maybe it’s not as common in other genres, and I think it potentially gives us a springboard to think about applying this concept into a business context. Let’s listen to Olivia, explain how this whole idea of the protagonist playlists comes together in young adult literature.

Olivia Abtahi (36:23):
That said a lot of why authors didn’t have a music streaming growing up. You know, we had maybe Napster if we were tech savvy, but we had to go to tower records like everyone else. And I think now today’s generation. I mean, I can just go on TikTok. You know, it’s like a music based social media platform. If I go on Instagram, there’s reels with the artist and the song tag in the top, I think it’s a fairly popular wire technique because this next generation just has so much more music surrounding them. It’s just prevalent. Like, I mean, from their phone to their social media, to just, you know, their everyday life in a way that I don’t think it existed for older generations. So I think it’s prevalent for this John rhe more so than anything because you’re writing for a generation of kids where music is just so integral to their everyday life.

Dan Gingiss (37:15):
I’m going to play Rain Man one more time and refer you back to the very first. He just can’t help himself friends. I love it. I love it. The very first episode of this season, season seven episode one 19, you talked about octopus energy and the personalized hold music that was set to the, I think it was your, your age 14 year?

Joey Coleman (37:36):
Yes, yes. Your “coming of age year.”

Dan Gingiss (37:37):
Yeah. We talked about how, you know, we all have this soundtrack of our lives that that kind of defines us. And so, and that’s different. It’s different music. You know, the soundtrack of our parents’ generation is very different than the soundtrack of our generation and for sure that is different than our kids’ generation, which I don’t even know what the heck they’re listening to. Kids these days!

Joey Coleman (38:00):
Oh, I love it. I love it. It’s so true. It’s so true. So what does the playlist of a protagonist in the book “Perfectly Parvin” have to do with your business? Well, it’s a creative way for you to think about getting into your customer’s shoes or maybe their headphones in order to better relate to their life, their journey and their connection to the experiences your striving to create. Now, if you enjoyed this segment and found it inspiring, you can visit our show notes at ExperienceThisShow.com, where we have a link to the protagonist Spotify playlist. And if you really want to show the love, go grab a copy of “Perfectly Parvin” by Olivia Abtahi – that’s, Olivia Abtahi – A-B-T-A-H-I – so you can experiment with connecting to people outside of your usual demographic in a deep and meaningful way.

Joey Coleman (38:59):
Thanks for joining us for another episode of Experience This! You are the best listener ever!

Dan Gingiss (39:05):
And since you listened to the whole show…

Joey Coleman (39:07):
Yay, you!

Dan Gingiss (39:09):
We’re curious: was there a specific part of this episode that you enjoyed the most? If so, it would mean the world to us if you could share it with a coworker, a friend, or someone that just loves listening to podcasts.

Joey Coleman (39:19):
And while you’re in the sharing mood, if you felt inclined to jump over to iTunes or wherever you find your podcasts, and write us a review, we would so appreciate it! And when you do, don’t forget to let us know as we might have a little surprise for you.

Dan Gingiss (39:35):
Thanks again for your time and we’ll see you next week for more…

Joey Coleman (39:38):
Experience!

Dan Gingiss (39:38):
This!

Episode 131 – The Time is Right for Better Customer Experiences

Join us as we discuss offering new products to your raving customers, speaking words of encouragement when you aren’t in the room, and making the big leap to do it on your own.

Waste-Composting, Hand-Washing, and Self-Employing – Oh My!

Referenced in the Show

• Lomi – Turn Waste To Compost with a Single Button
Children’s National Hospital
• The Self-Employed Life: Business and Personal Development Strategies That Create Sustainable Success – by Jeffrey Shaw

Host Contact Information

Email Dan: Dan@dangingiss.com

Tweet Dan Gingiss: @DGingiss

Email Joey: JoeyC@JoeyColeman.com

DanGingiss.com

JoeyColeman.com

Subscribe to Experience This on Apple Podcasts

Learn more about our Season 7 Partner – Solvvy – The NextGen Chatbot

Episode Transcript

Download a machine-transcribed, barely edited transcript of Episode 131 here or read it below:
(if anything doesn’t make sense or you have any questions about the transcript – just Contact us!)

Joey Coleman (00:05):
Welcome to Experience This!

Dan Gingiss (00:07):
The podcast that celebrates remarkable customer experiences and inspires you to stand out from the competition by wowing your customers.

Dan Gingiss (00:17):
Each episode, we bring you a healthy dose of inspiring stories, funny interactions, and practical takeaways. Marketing and customer experience thought leader, Dan Gingiss…

Dan Gingiss (00:30):
shares the mic with customer retention and employee experience expert Joey Coleman, helping you to get people talking about your business.

Dan Gingiss (00:40):
So get ready because it’s time to Experience This!

Joey Coleman (00:49):
Get ready for another episode of the Experience This! Show!

Dan Gingiss (00:54):
Join us as we discuss offering new products to your raving fans, speaking words of encouragement when you aren’t in the room, and making the big leap to do it on your own.

Joey Coleman (01:09):
Waste-composting, hand-washing, and self-employing! Oh my!

Joey Coleman (01:14):
we love telling stories and sharing key insights you can implement or avoid based on our experiences. Can you believe that this just happened?!

Joey Coleman (01:28):
Long time listeners to the Experience This Show will remember a conversation that Dan and I had about the amazing compostable cell phone cases made by my Canadian friends at Piela.

Dan Gingiss (01:43):
Well, that would be back in episode 98 of season five. I do believe?!

Joey Coleman (01:46):
Yes, my friend. He’s done it again. Yes, indeed. The team at Pela makes a fantastic compostable cell phone case. And today they released a new product called Lomi. I want to play a audio of their CEO talking about what Lomi is, why it’s important for their customers, why it’s important for the planet and why you should get one. So listen to Matt. As he describes the new offering from Pela called Lomi .

Matt Bertulli (02:22):
What if changing the world was as easy as pushing a button. Hey, I’m Matt from Pela. And I want to introduce you to my friend. Lomi at Pela. We’re a team of engineers and material scientists. And for the last three years, we’ve been creating something truly special, a solution to the world’s garbage problem. Now, before I show you how long he is going to change the world, let’s talk about why you’re going to want one of your home today. Maybe you live in a big city and have agreement program. You know, those little plastic bins with leaky bags under your sink that are amazing at producing smelly gross liquid slugs that nobody wants to touch recommends anybody, or maybe you don’t have agreement system where you live. And instead you throw all your food waste into the garbage, which then goes to a landfill which produces methane, which causes climate change all while still smelling pretty terrible loamy makes your life so much easier. Lomi can compost your food waste, that pesky packaging from your online shopping habit and even biodegradable plastics. Yup. Lomi even works on Pela’s compostable phone cases, all at the push of a button. And as little as a few hours later, your waste has turned into the start of nutrient rich compost, totally mess free and odor neutralized. You probably know us at Piela as the inventors of the world’s first compostable phone case, peels customers have eliminated more than 41.8 million plastic bags worth of garbage in the last five years to create loamy. We’ve spent over three years completing more than 1000 compost tests and endless hours of design and prototyping. Loamy. Isn’t just beautifully designed. It is the world’s best home composter period. Food waste creates 330 billion pounds of garbage in North America. Each year, packaging and plastic represent even more garbage and add that number up even higher loamy makes food waste a thing of the past and helps you cut up to half of your carbon footprint all while making odor neutralized mess, free compost that you can feed your plants, tossing your garden, send it to the green bin or put it in the garbage together. We can do something that politicians and big businesses can’t seem to take any action on actually helping the planet. We can make trash thing of the past, back our project today, and you’ll help us bring Lomi to life.

Joey Coleman (04:25):
Now, I don’t know about you, Dan, but when you hear that, when you first are exposed to Lomi and what…

Dan Gingiss (04:30):
Already bought it! I did. I saw the video and then I, I, I bought it immediately. I’m sold.

Joey Coleman (04:39):
I love it. I love it. So here’s why I wanted to talk about Lomi by the way, I also already purchased my own loamy for at home. Here’s why I wanted to talk about this though. I think we have entered an era where every business on the planet absolutely must take into consideration the environmental impact of their product. And if you have a product that is going to be able to significantly help the environment, it is going to build buzz and build excitement about your offering.

Dan Gingiss (05:14):
I guess I think that’s true. I unfortunately think that environmental issues have become a little bit politicized.

Joey Coleman (05:24):
A little bit?! Understatement of the year.

Dan Gingiss (05:26):
And so I think that is true for a certain group of people. You and I are definitely within those people. The environment is a, is an issue I care very much about. Mostly I think probably fatherhood did that to me, that I felt like I needed to have some responsibility for how I leave the planet for my kids and grandkids. And so it’s an, uh, it’s important for me. And one of the things I liked about this was I’ve tried composting. Now a couple of times I had an electric composter that I plugged in before that was gigantic and it worked for a little while. And then like, you know, the stringy salary got caught in the motors and it was done. I had to throw it away. And then of course introduced her to the problem. Then I, then I went with the, uh, the spinning barrel that I had.

Joey Coleman (06:16):
Oh, the “tumbler of poo” as I like to call it.

Dan Gingiss (06:20):
That works. Okay. But the real problem is, uh, is exactly what Matt was describing at the beginning of the videos. You have this little table, top plastic container. It, you, you know, you want to use compostable bags in it, otherwise you’re, you know, again kind of defeating the purpose of the composer. And since those compostable bags are absolutely horrible, I use two of them. Uh, but the food still seeps through if I don’t change them every day or every other day. And so the whole thing is messy and disgusting and it just kind of leaves you asking why in the world am I doing this? And that’s unfortunate.

Joey Coleman (06:56):
It really is because here’s the thing you’re trying to do the right thing. And yet at every step along the way, it is inconvenient, smelly difficult, logistically challenging. When we lived in Boulder, we had what they call curbside composting and when we moved to Boulder, Colorado, my wife Barrett was ecstatic because she had wanted curbside, composting pretty much her entire life. She’s been a composter for ages. And she thought this would be great. And it was great, but they picked up every other week, which meant we had a trashcan outside where we would put art, double bagged bag of compostable food in there. And I got to tell you, by the time July or August rolled around in that summer heat, it was hard not to vomit carrying the trash bag to the curb for them to pick it up curbside, just because of the aromas wafting out from underneath it.

Dan Gingiss (07:52):
I mean, it was Creole Romas. Yeah. He’s being a little nice,

Joey Coleman (07:57):
It’s absolutely crazy. But what I love about this product is they took all, and it’s not surprising that it took three years of R and D. They took all of the pieces of the puzzle that were annoying to people and simplified them. It’s small, it’s convenient. It doesn’t smell horrible. It doesn’t require all of these plastic bags and it allows people to accomplish what they want to accomplish, which is to do the right thing for the environment. Yeah.

Dan Gingiss (08:27):
I mean, it kind of reminds me, I mean the best innovative products or services are those that really think through every piece of the puzzle and figure out what trips people up and how can we do it differently. And I’m always reminded of, of Uber. And the reason I’m reminded of them, because they’re obviously often cited for being such an innovative company, is that they not only solved all the problems of the passengers and why it was so to hail a cab and never be able to use, you know, the credit card machine was always out and cabbies were rude and all this stuff, but they also solved all the problems for drivers. Drivers didn’t want to carry cash. Drivers didn’t want to have to travel so far away from home, you know, all these things. And they solved, they looked at every pain point of a taxi driver and a taxi passenger, and they fixed them all. And that’s what it looks like. Obviously we haven’t used it yet, but it looks like that’s what they attempted to do here, because that video, I mean, I was nodding my head during that video because, and so were you because, you know, I’ve had the, I’ve had the countertop disaster, you’ve had the smelly garbage going out to the curb. And so they clearly know their audience. They know people that have tried to compost that have, you know, done their best, even if it isn’t working. And it looks like they have really tried to alleviate all of that. If this thing works as well as that video, I can’t wait

Joey Coleman (09:53):
If things, if this thing works as half, as well as the video, it’s going to be fantastic. And here’s why I wanted to talk about this. Some people are listening are thinking, Oh, Joey, seriously, what is it with the environmental product? And like, that’s not applicable to my business. Although see, earlier part of the conversation where I think you need to be taking that into consideration for your business, but here’s the behind the scenes that I think is incredibly relevant. The day that we are recording this podcast segment is the day that the product launched. Now, the folks at Piela sent everyone, all of their customers of which I am one an email a week ago saying we’re going to be launching on Tuesday morning at 9:00 AM Eastern, be one of the first people to sign up. And they did their, uh, their launches on Indiegogo, which if you’re not familiar with this, it’s kind of similar to Kickstarter. You basically go on, you buy a product before it’s made. And then the company uses the money from the pre-orders to help finish the last mile. If you will, of development. I went on at two minutes before it was set to launch and they were already selling. So I was purchaser number 126. And I was super excited because I know the folks in, but I have to admit when I saw that I was purchasing her number 126, I was like, wow, there are other people like me who set their alarms to be ready to rock when this thing launched. And it hasn’t even officially launched, but they’re already buying. And then

Dan Gingiss (11:24):
How many hours later Joey, tell me.

Joey Coleman (11:27):
Yeah, yeah. Wait a second. So, so that was this morning at 8:00 AM local time. So 9:00 AM Eastern, which is 8:00 AM here in Iowa. I got on a phone call. I got off a phone call an hour later. And just for giggles, I went to their site to see how many people had backed the project. This project costs about $300. At that time, they had raised $900,000 in the first hour. And I thought, Oh my gosh, this is amazing. Now, anytime you do a launch, there’s a lot of flood right in the first hour. And so I decided to check back in later in the day and see how they were doing right before we started recording. They were at $1.9 million raised today, today from customers in the time we’ve been talking about it, they are now at 2.15 million.

Dan Gingiss (12:24):
That’s right, because Joey told me about this right before we started recording. So that was at about 9:00 PM local time. So call it 13 hours from when he purchased it. I was then purchaser number 6,486. I believe it was.

Joey Coleman (12:38):
Yes.

Dan Gingiss (12:39):
And they’re now North of 6,500 backers. And as you say, uh, at over $2.1 million and the probably the most impressive statistic is apparently their goal was $50,000. So they’re 4315% ahead of their goal. I’d say that’s a good day.

Joey Coleman (12:57):
Yes. And this is day one of a 30 day campaign. So here’s the moral of the story. Friends. When you build a product and you release it to your raving fans, and that product is in alignment with your brand ethos. If you remember from our previous conversations about Pela, they build compostable cell phone cases. So for them to build a kitchen, countertop, composter is a logical brand extension. And frankly, a much more complicated product than the cell phone cases. But when you do something that’s in alignment and you have raving rabid fans, they will come out and support you like crazy. Now here’s the interesting thing. What will it be like when we turn in tune in, what will it be like when we tune in 30 days from now, when this campaign is over, I’m going to make a prediction. I’m going to predict that they will be somewhere near four and a half million dollars raised in 30 days. They may be higher than that. Here’s hoping, but this is what you can do. If you focus on creating remarkable experiences. When you come out with new products, your customers will be lined up to buy those too. Congratulations to the team at Peal. Congratulations on the launch of the new Lomi product and friends is you’re listening, you’re still within the 30 day limit. Go to the show notes@experiencethisshow.com. We’ll have a prominent link so that you can go get your own Lomi kitchen, top composter.

Joey Coleman (14:31):
You listened to us. Now we want to listen to you! By visiting our website and sharing your remarkable customer experiences with us. We can share them with a broader audience. Now, sit back and enjoy our Listener Stories.

Joey Coleman (14:50):
You ever something on social media, Dan, and think to yourself. Wow, that’s interesting. I’m wondering what the backstory is on that comment.

Dan Gingiss (14:58):
Ah, gosh, I love this segment already. Cause we’re always talking about social media. It’s always exciting when I bring up social media, isn’t it? Yes. And I have no idea where you’re going with this, but yes, of course. I do find that. I want to look for the backstory. Why Joey?

Joey Coleman (15:12):
Right. All right. All right. So here’s the deal. Last week, a friend of mine posted a job listing for a chief experience officer for his company. And he made this posting in a private Facebook group that I’m part of as our loyal listeners know, I am not a regular on social media by any means, but I’m in a couple of what I consider to be highly productive, private Facebook groups and where I just can network and associate and get some good advice with some other folks, so I happened to see this post and this post caught my attention, but one of the comments on the post caught my attention even more. And so I reached out to the person who made the post in order to get the full story and they were kind enough to oblige. It turns out they’re a listener to the show. So Jerry Simpson, the CEO of kite wire was kind enough to share a story about a fascinating and touching experience that he had. Let’s listen to Jerry’s story.

Jere Simpson (16:09):
My absolute favorite customer experiences as a customer happened for me at Children’s Hospital. I was with my youngest son and my wife, my youngest son was having surgery, which is, you know, fills me with a ton of anxiety and a ton of fear and makes me a ball of nerves. And I’m expected in the dynamic of my family to also be emotionally strong support for everybody else. So we get through the whole surgery, you sit there for hours, just waiting nervous. Then you take down a whole bunch of information. Um, what outpatient care is like, and you want to make sure that you don’t forget any of it. And my son is fussy and pain crying, um, and all the way out, I go into the restroom and wash my hands and washing my hands. And I look up and I see on the mirror, hang in there, dad. And it just felt like at the perfect time, somebody put their hand on my shoulder and was support for me. So when I didn’t know, because I knew, they thought about me and they thought about my experience and what I was going through in the first moment of the entire day, where I could be vulnerable just within myself. And I just thought that is such a thoughtful exercise that somebody went through to figure out where was the perfect touch point to put a hand on my shoulder.

Dan Gingiss (17:34):
Oh man, I got the chills listening to that. That is absolutely awesome. And it’s like, they knew he was there, right? It’s like they were literally talking to him. And I love, we’ve talked about proactive customer experience before and sort of anticipatory moments and you know, maybe a whole bunch of dads go in there and they look at that and they’re like, what are they even talking about? But even one guy in clearly one guy was affected by it. But my guess is that tons of dads have been in that same bathroom and have seen that message. And maybe they didn’t post it on Facebook, but it meant something to them. And you know, I also love it because I talk about this all the time. The best experiences don’t have to cost you any money. How long did it take to, or how much money was it to put a sign up on a mirror? Yeah, probably next to none.

Joey Coleman (18:30):
Exactly. And here’s the thing. They don’t necessarily know that it’s going to have the same impact on every person, but what they do know. And what Jerry’s story proves is that when it does have an impact, there is a high likelihood that it’s going to be a significant impact. And I absolutely love this story and thought that it brought up two key points that I wanted to talk about in this segment. First, the importance of creating poignant moments for your customers. And second, the idea of creating the type of interaction that really gets people talking. Now, when we think about poignant moments for our customers, one of the things that a lot of businesses do is customer journey mapping. And that makes perfect sense. But one of the questions I get a lot and I’m sure you do as well. Dan, whenever we speak or we’re on a consulting engagement is well on what day should that touch point come? When should it happen? When should I send that communication? And they want to know often because they want to automate it. And I get that. And that makes perfect sense. But what I think is becoming increasingly more valuable in our automated scheduled society are these un-timed, but geographically placed touch points like a message on the mirror, in the bathroom. We have no idea when a potential dad is going to walk in there. We also know that there’s a lot of men that are going to walk into this bathroom, who aren’t dads, who this message isn’t going to be nearly as poignant, but someone at children’s hospital figured out we can create an untimed moment that if we do it right, maybe the only time that that dad has had to look in the mirror and to really be honest with himself about what he’s feeling while his child’s here in the hospital. And if in that moment, we can let them know they’re not alone. We can give them the slightest boost of energy or confidence. What will that do? Not only to their experience, but to the experience of their families, to the experience of their child. Who’s the patient, these type of untimed, geographically placed touch points, I think are incredible. And it’s something almost every business the planet can do.

Dan Gingiss (20:48):
Well. Yeah, let’s be honest. Most of the men walking into that bathroom, probably our dads, I mean, it’s a children’s hospital. And so if we just kind of do the math, the, the hit, rate’s probably going to be pretty high, but I think that it plays on a couple of things. First of all, it plays on empathy, which we know is a hallmark to customer experience and, and, and being empathetic means understanding what somebody is going through in that moment. And yeah, your kids going in for surgery, you’re nervous, you’re scared, you’re worried. And you know, you might be alone or certainly you’re probably alone in the bathroom. And so it is that moment. And I think they’ve captured it perfectly. The other thing I really like is that we’ve talked a lot about how healthcare, especially in the United States is probably bottom of the barrel

Joey Coleman (21:34):
Horrible experiences, right. Fighting for last place with the cable companies.

Dan Gingiss (21:39):
Yeah. And so I love that it happened in a hospital that this was an experience that was designed in a healthcare space where frankly, we do not expect experiences like this. And so, you know, we talk a lot about it at customer expectations and the need to at least meet expectations and hopefully exceed them. I think the good news for the healthcare system and for hospitals is the expectations are probably pretty low, but this one soared over it and was probably more than anything surprising to Jere, right? Because you just, that’s not what somebody would expect walking into the bathroom, By the way, I do want to point out one other thing. This is the first time I think an experience this history, but you brought a bathroom story!

Joey Coleman (22:25):
Usually Dan has the bathroom stories, the bathroom experiences, no, this, this one, it absolutely stood out to me. And it, you know, to that point, Dan, I thought this is the kind of story that Dan’s going to be super excited about, which actually brings me to the second key point that I wanted to make about this story from Jerry. And that is this idea of creating interactions that get people talking. We all strive to do that as customer experience professionals, our hope is to create something that stands out in the crowd that gets people’s attention. And I know you heard Jere story in his own words earlier in the segment when we played that audio clip, but I’d like to share the rest of the social media posts that he made that originally got my attention. And I quote: “On the way out of the hospital today, I stopped to use the bathroom. And as I was washing my hands, I looked up and on the mirror was quote, hanging in there. Dad, it’s the third time I’ve experienced that mirror. And I appreciate it just the same this time as the other two, that’s the kind of CX thinking that really gets me excited.” I got to tell you, I have a hard time reading that passage without tearing, because I’m thinking of my friend, Jere who’s in this bathroom for the third surgery with his son, like, Oh my gosh, I can’t even begin to imagine the pain and the stress and the heartache and the angst. And he spoke to that earlier in the recording, but Holy cow, to have this moment where that’s released and here’s the kicker he’s been there before, he’s seen the message before and still it’s having that impact friends. To me, that’s how, you know, you’ve designed a powerful customer experience, touch point that when your customers experience it multiple times, it still gives them the emotional hit that it did the first time.

Dan Gingiss (24:33):
Yeah, Joey, this reminds me of something that actually my ex-wife and I termed the Dubrovnik Principle.

Joey Coleman (24:41):
The Dubrovnik Expeirence? Only, only you guys. I love it. I love it.

Dan Gingiss (24:47):
As our listeners who are a student geography know Dubrovnik is in Croatia. And we visited Dubrovnik on our honeymoon and had probably the perfect day in that lovely city and just absolutely it was such a memorable day. And about two years later, we went back to Croatia and we went back to Dubrovnik and we tried to replicate that day and it did it work. It just, we went to the same places, did the same things. We sat at the same cafe or did the same coffee. It just wasn’t the same. And we called that the Dubrovnik principle mostly because there, it actually comes up a lot in life, not just in travel that when you have an experience the second time, it’s great. It just isn’t as good as the first time, because the first time there’s the surprise element. And there’s, you know, I went, went to a really well-known restaurant in Chicago. That’s known for its experience and I had the most amazing experience. And then I brought somebody with me to go back and it wasn’t quite as good because I wasn’t experiencing it for the first time. And so I think the fact that he has gone through this three times, I loved also the words that he said, it’s the third time I’ve experienced that mirror. How many times has anybody experienced a mirror? Those words ever been said, and it’s three times and he’s still feeling it. So kudos to that hospital. Uh, amazing work.

Joey Coleman (26:14):
Yes. Children’s hospital. Great job. You consistently do a great job for your patients. And what I love about this is you’re now doing a great job for their families as well. Friends, what can we take away from this story? In every business, there are the opportunities to create poignant moments for your customers to create in it, to create an opportunity for empathy, to create an opportunity, to let them know that they are seen, that they are heard that they are appreciated. And if you do this right, and you consider some untimed, but geographically placed touchpoints you to have the opportunity to create the kind of interaction that will get your customers talking again, and again, and again.

Joey Coleman (27:02):
Almost everyone has interacted with chatbots, but all too often, it’s been a bad experience. In MythBusters – presented by Solvvy – we explore a common myth about CX chatbots and see how the right technology can create a positive experience, every time.

Joey Coleman (27:25):
Today’s myth about chatbots? All chatbots use artificial intelligence and machine learning. At this point, we all know the support chat bot, buzzwords, AI, machine learning, natural language, understanding and so on. When you are lucky enough to find a chat bot that actually uses artificial intelligence and machine learning, it should be able to quickly learn by crawling your content with some minor training from your team. It should be able to start delivering impactful results immediately. Now, almost every chatbot claims to use artificial intelligence and machine learning nowadays. But that isn’t actually the case.

Dan Gingiss (28:05):
You know, Joey, I also find that many, many companies put artificial intelligence and machine learning as if it’s one thing completely different than none of this. I promise. No, not one. We must do the other so many chat bots don’t have real artificial intelligence or machine learning and still require manual rule building in order to work effectively while we know that AI and natural language understanding is the go-to for next gen high-performing chat bots, there are plenty of unintelligent chatbots that force you to manually spell out the answer for every possible question a customer might ask. The wrong chat bot can require months of your team’s time to build and becomes extremely expensive, very quickly. Worst of all these types of old-school unintelligent chat bots, don’t learn and improve over time on their own.

Joey Coleman (28:55):
So what should you do if you’re evaluating different chat bot solutions, we’ll make sure you understand how much intelligence is truly powering the bot. Is there real machine learning and intelligence at work, or we need to monitor and update the bot constantly to ensure a great customer experience as a general rule, the smarter the bot, the less work you’ll need to do.

Dan Gingiss (29:17):
And the less work you need to do the more time you can devote to your other CX initiatives like getting those awesome bathroom mirror messages deployed!

Joey Coleman (29:26):
And that’s another myth busted. Thanks to our friends and podcast supporters at Salvi, the next gen chat bot find them at Solvvy.com – that’s S O L V V y.com.

Joey Coleman (29:43):
We spend hours and hours, nose deep in books. We believe that everything you read influences the experiences you create. So we’re happy to answer our favorite question. What are you reading?

Dan Gingiss (29:59):
You know, Joey, we talk all the time, but there is a question that I regularly ask you that I realized earlier today. I haven’t asked you in quite a long time.

Joey Coleman (30:08):
Well, interesting. Dan, there’s a couple of those questions. So I’m wondering which one you’re thinking about. I’m thinking about the question. What are you reading? Oh, I absolutely love this question. It’s one of my favorites to ask people as well. I love asking you this question. To answer your question in the last year, to be honest, I really upped my reading of fiction and also poetry. I’ve been trying to kind of disconnect from the world a little bit and try to have some escapism and enjoy. To be honest. I also have a bunch of great friends that are authors. So I get to read a ton of upcoming books before they’re released to the world, which to be honest is one of the best things about being friends with an author, you can read their books before you get them in the store. And one of these books was actually just released yesterday. And interestingly enough is about something that you and I have in common.

Dan Gingiss (31:02):
Let me guess it’s either about customer experience or Legos.

Joey Coleman (31:06):
No, not this time.

Dan Gingiss (31:09):
What about board games?

Joey Coleman (31:11):
I do indeed like board games, as I know you do as well, but no, this one’s different. It’s actually all about running your own business. Oh yes, we do share that in common too.

Dan Gingiss (31:22):
All right. I’m intrigued. I’m intrigued. I want to learn good things about running my business. Tell me some more.

Joey Coleman (31:28):
Well Dan, this book is called the self-employed life, business and personal development strategies that create sustainable success. And it’s written by our mutual friend, Jeffrey Shaw. Now Jeffrey is a leading voice for self-employed business owners and he’s the host of the top rated podcast, the self-employed life, which has heard in over 200 countries around the world. But instead of me telling you about the book, I think it’d be best to have Jeffrey explain the book in his own words. So I asked him if he’d just share a little bit about the book.

Jeffrey Shaw (31:59):
I’ve asked countless number of people, why they went into business for themselves, and everyone has some variation of the same answer they wanted to control their destiny or control their future, or maybe they wanted to control the hours they worked to, which I reply. How’s that going for you? And everybody laughs because everybody realizes that while they intended on controlling their destiny and their future and their hours they’re entering what feels like almost completely uncontrollable circumstances, uh, economies go up and down, markets, change trends, come and go. And now we know there can be the occasional pandemic. So while the circumstances of being self-employed may seem completely uncontrollable. The one thing I’ve learned that you can control is that you can create the environment for the results you want. In fact, it’s the only thing that we can really control is the environment for the results we want. And that’s why in the self-employed life, I teach a strategy that I refer to as the self-employed ecosystem, the self-employed ecosystem consisting of three main elements, personal development, to expand the capacity of what you’re capable of and what you welcome. The second element is business strategies that are right sized for a small business. And the third element is daily habits that create consistency and sustainable success. And just like an ecosystem in nature of any one of those elements is off. It can throw off the entire system. And that’s why when you’re self-employed the old adage businesses business, don’t take it personal. Doesn’t apply because your level of success is contingent on your level of capacity and personal development. And that’s why the self-employed ecosystem is essential.

Joey Coleman (33:54):
Now this book is filled with great information for any business owner. Dan, there are a ton of books out there about being a business owner. But what I love about this one is it covers three key things that normally you would find in different books, but in Jeffrey’s book, they’re all in one. And those three key things are personal development, business strategies and daily habits. And what I love is he breaks down each one to talk about how important personal development is and how important daily habits are, especially given that most business books are just about the business strategies.

Dan Gingiss (34:30):
Ah, well, you know, those are, those are three good things I have to tell you. The one that really sticks out to me is the daily habits, because these are so hard to develop and I have been working on them. You and I were just talking about calendaring habits right before we went on air and you know, just trying to focus every day. It’s like, it’s a beautiful thing to work for yourself because you know, you have the best handsomest boss there is in the world. But then the other thing is, is you don’t have that person looking over your shoulder, giving you deadlines. And so the daily habit thing, I think to me anyway, is the part, like I turned the page right there. Cause I, I got to get better at that.

Joey Coleman (35:09):
Yeah. And I will tell you one of Jeffrey’s daily habits that he recommends that I love and I wasn’t doing before I read this book and now I am, he doesn’t have a to-do list. He has a to don’t list. He has a list of things that any times he finds himself doing these things, he cry, he stops doing it and gets back to the things he should be doing.

Dan Gingiss (35:30):
Like checking Twitter or Facebook…

Joey Coleman (35:33):
I wasn’t going to get specific.

Dan Gingiss (35:38):
Clubhouse?

Joey Coleman (35:38):
could be something to think about when we think about our favorite passages, you know, one of the things I wanted to do and I always love doing is asking authors, what’s your favorite part of the book? You know, it’s something we do in our book reports and knowing that I wanted to talk about this book that we were reading as well. I figured we, I would ask Jeffrey to, so here’s Jeffrey’s favorite passage from his book, the self-employed life.

Jeffrey Shaw (36:05):
What I didn’t realize at the time was that my simple egg business at 14 years old would be the beginning of a lifetime of being self-employed. Remember when I said I had butterflies in my stomach heading out on Saturday mornings, it’s because I was scared to death. I suffered from terrible shyness. As a kid, I would take profits from my egg business and buy self-help books by Wayne Dwyer and hide them in my house because my family would think I was weird. If they knew at one point, I even bought a book on self hypnosis to hypnotize myself out of shyness. I learned how to visualize myself in a power pose among a crowd of people. The first time I tried my power pose, it didn’t go so well. I was hanging out with a few neighborhood kids, which was already really unusual for me because normally I was locked in a room somewhere reading about how to think and grow rich. But on this day I thought I would try out my power pose while it may have felt powerful to me, the expression I received told me, I looked more like a cross between, I don’t know, Superman and a root Paul. One kid looked at me up and down and said, what the hell is wrong with you? That was the end of my hypnosis techniques. So going house to house and knocking on doors was a huge stretch for me. It wasn’t just out of my comfort zone because I would felt shy. The truth was I didn’t have a comfort zone at all. So why do it then why do any of us put ourselves through what we do as self-employed business owners? We know it’s not the easy way. I believe that whether or not we realize it in the beginning, what motivates us most is the desire to become bolder versions of ourselves that is deepening and developing into the best versions of ourselves as bigger than any fear, challenge or obstacle that we might face.

Dan Gingiss (38:00):
Super cool, great stories. And, uh, really can tell that this is going to be, this is going to have some interesting stuff in it that I probably haven’t considered before. Joey, do you have a favorite passage as well?

Joey Coleman (38:13):
You know, I do. And while mine doesn’t include references to Superman and RuPaul like that last one did, um, I think you might like this one, Dan, it probably comes as no surprise to you that my favorite passage in the book has to do with customer experience.

Dan Gingiss (38:26):
No!

Joey Coleman (38:27):
Shocker. I know. Right. All right. So, and I quote, we also know that in life, timing is often everything. Now see that it’s not just what you say or even how you say it, but also when you say it, the journey on which you take visitors, whether it’s prospective customers on your website, readers of your blog or listeners to your podcast is a blend of consumer behavior psychology and the subtleties of your audience. For example, typical consumer behavior will say that people need to see their problem before they seek a solution as a general rule. I would say that is true. However, the nuance is how do you point out the problems so that your audience responds well? Is it the usual pointing out their pain approach or is it a more aspirational helping them imagine what is possible if their pain point is solved more than in the past? I think many people prefer an aspirational message. So this idea of knowing the emotional journey your audience needs to go on in order to buy into your offer means understanding them on a whole new level.

Dan Gingiss (39:29):
I see why you picked this one out. I would actually argue, this is more of a marketing thing than a CX thing, but it does also show how the customer experience starts with the marketing. And then if we can figure out how to make an emotional connection with a prospect, by focusing, for example, on the aspirational, then we’re starting that experience off, right. And we’re getting them to buy from us. We’re setting that expectation. So I think that is a fascinating quote as well. Uh, you know, that I love the intersection of CX and marketing, and I think that very much pinpoints it.

Dan Gingiss (40:03):
I agree my friend. So here’s the deal. If you’re self-employed, I think you’ll love this book. If you’ve thought about starting your own business, or if you have a side hustle that is working its way into a business, I think you’ll love this book. In fact, if you’re all inspired about this book, the way I am, here’s what you can do. You can of course order the book or you can be one of the first 10 people to message us via the Contact Page ExperienceThisShow.com. And we will happily send you a signed copy from Jeffrey as our way of saying thank you for listening to experience this. And we wish you well on your self-employed journey.

Joey Coleman (40:43):
Thanks for joining us for another episode of experience. This, you are the best listener ever!

Dan Gingiss (40:49):
And since you listened to the whole show, yay, you were curious, was there a specific part of this episode that you enjoyed the most? If so, it would mean the world to us. If you could share it with a coworker, a friend or someone that just loves listening to podcasts.

Joey Coleman (41:03):
And while you’re in the sharing mood, if you felt inclined to jump over to iTunes or wherever you find your podcasts and write us a review, we would so appreciate it. And when you do, don’t forget to let us know as we might have a little surprise for you.

Dan Gingiss (41:19):
Thanks again for your time. And we’ll see you next week for more.

Joey Coleman (41:22):
Experience.

Dan Gingiss (41:22):
This!

Episode 129 – Video Energizing or Video Fatigue?

Join us as we discuss enticing your customers to come back after COVID, videos that capture your brand spirit, and managing camera fatigue in a video-based business environment.

Flying, Speedriding, and Zooming – Oh My!

Referenced in the Show

• Delta Airlines Entices Flyers with Enhanced Rewards

• MUST WATCH: Speedriding Through An Alpine Resort – From Avoriaz With Love – by Red Bull

• Citi Creates ‘Zoom-Free Fridays’ to Combat Pandemic Fatigue – by Anna Schaverien in the New York Times

Host Contact Information

Email Dan: Dan@dangingiss.com

Tweet Dan Gingiss: @DGingiss

Email Joey: JoeyC@JoeyColeman.com

DanGingiss.com

JoeyColeman.com

Subscribe to Experience This on Apple Podcasts

Learn more about our Season 7 Partner – Solvvy – The NextGen Chatbot

Episode Transcript

Download an unedited transcript of Episode 129 here or read it below:

Joey Coleman (00:05):
Welcome to Experience This!

Dan Gingiss (00:08):
The podcast that celebrates remarkable customer experiences and inspires you to stand out from the competition by wowing your customers.

Joey Coleman (00:17):
Each episode, we bring you a healthy dose of inspiring stories, funny interactions, and practical takeaways, marketing and customer experience thought leader, Dan Gingiss…

Dan Gingiss (00:30):
shares the mic with customer retention and employee experience expert, Joey Coleman, helping you to get people talking about your business.

Joey Coleman (00:40):
So get ready because it’s time to Experience This!

Joey Coleman (00:48):
Get ready, for another episode of the Experience This Show.

Dan Gingiss (00:53):
Join us as we discuss enticing your customers to come back after COVID videos that capture your brand spirit and managing camera fatigue in a video-based business environment.

Joey Coleman (01:08):
Flying, Speedriding, and Zooming – oh my!

Joey Coleman (01:15):
With a pandemic sweeping the globe, and shifting the way organizations interact with their customers, many of the old ways of operating just don’t work anymore. As we all navigate a COVID-19 world, it’s time to Redesign the Experience.

Joey Coleman (01:34):
It’s been a long time Dan, but it’s time to talk about flying again.

Dan Gingiss (01:40):
Ahhhh, I’ve been waiting for this. Have you been on a plane?

Joey Coleman (01:42):
I actually have not, but I’m starting to think about it a lot more and will likely be on a plane sometime in the not too distant future. Vaccines are up. COVID infections are down. Events are starting to happen again. It’s exciting. And what I wanted to talk about is all of the businesses that have seen their loyal customers, who while staying loyal, just haven’t been doing as much business in the last year.

Dan Gingiss (02:08):
Oh, you mean like our friends at the airlines?

Joey Coleman (02:10):
Yes indeed, like the airlines. And as anyone who listens to Experience This knows…

Dan Gingiss (02:16):
Wait a minute! I think I know what you’re going to say. You like Delta don’t you?!

Joey Coleman (02:19):
No, I don’t like Delta, Dan. I love Delta! I love flying on Delta for a host of reasons, but because of changes in the event industry over the last year, I haven’t needed to fly to any of the conferences or events that I normally would to give speeches at. I’ve been doing all my presentations remotely as have you. And now, as businesses are starting to think about hosting in-person events and conferences this summer, and especially into the fall, I’m getting a lot of inquiries for these upcoming events, which means naturally I’m thinking about flying again. Now that being said, you know, who else was thinking about me flying again, Dan?

Dan Gingiss (02:56):
Uh, your wife, your kids. I don’t know? Who?

Joey Coleman (03:01):
You are. Correct. All of those people are, but I’m talking specifically about the fantastic folks at Delta airlines. The reason I know they’re thinking about this is because I received an email this week outlining some fantastic new bonuses that they have to entice fliers to come back now as noted by Dwight James, who is the Senior Vice President of Customer Engagement and Loyalty and the CEO of Delta Vacations, and I quote, “[o]ur customers, supported us through the most difficult year in our history. And as we welcome them back, we want to help their travel count for even more. We sincerely appreciate how much our customers value their status and these industry leading offers will ensure Medallion Members can continue to enjoy those benefits for flights now, and in the future.” Now the message went on to detail, a series of new enhancements to the Delta loyalty program, including earning up to 75% more miles towards your medallion status on nearly every Delta flight, earning miles toward your medallion status with award travel (this is a first ever in the airline industry – normally if you use your miles to get a free ticket, you don’t get to get miles for that free ticket. Now they’re actually going to let you accrue miles on your award tickets) and all of these bonuses will be “credited to customer’s accounts for a seamless experience.”

Dan Gingiss (04:31):
American Airlines… I hope you’re listening because you’re going to be next I suspect! But Hey, I mean, I love it. I’m a, I’m a rewards guy spent a lot of time in loyalty marketing and you know, those are fantastic. They’re rich, uh, which basically means I hate to break your bubble, they’re probably going to be temporary, but I think it’s a great time for temporary richness, if you will, because you know, people are – even frequent flyers like us are still hesitant to go back to flying. We probably won’t go back to as much flying as we were doing at, you know, at least for a while, maybe ever. And so the airlines have some work to do to get people back in their seats. And I think as usual Delta seems to be leading the way in terms of enticing people.

Joey Coleman (05:21):
You know, Dan, I feel the same way. And I think the interesting thing about this outreach is it’s coming at a time where a lot of frequent flyers like you like me are just really starting to seriously think about this. Like to be honest, last summer, you couldn’t have paid me to get on an airplane. And that’s not a criticism of any of the airplanes I love flying. It’s just, it didn’t make sense with the pandemic. But now as things start to change now, as people start to consider it, what I think is fantastic about the timing of this message is that as I’m starting to think about, they’re in my inbox saying, Hey, by the way, when you’re ready, no pressure, but when you’re ready, we’re going to do some amazing things for you. Now what’s interesting is this all comes on the heels of the things Delta did last year to make the experience better for the frequent flyers – including being the first airline to extend 2020 flyer status into 2021, and the only airline to offer rollover status miles, which are kind of known as MQMS in Delta airlines, speak to give customers a headstart on their 2022 status.

Dan Gingiss (06:31):
So you’re saying that miles you earned before the pandemic in 2020 are counting now?

Joey Coleman (06:39):
Not only are they counting for my status, now they are actually rolling over and counting towards my next status. What Delta did is they said, look, the pandemic has changed everything, whatever status you have in 2020, we’re automatically giving you that status in 2021, regardless of how you fly in 2020. Oh. And by the way, if you do happen to fly in 2020 or 2021, any extra miles that you’ve accrued across those two years will kick into your status for 2022. So they are doing these amazing things to really reward people for doing the behavior they want, which is getting on airplanes. They also made a bunch of other improvements to their upgrade certificates. They made the more rewarding and easier to use. Their companion tickets – so any companion tickets that were going to expire in 2020, they extended to 2021. And they just announced that all of those are being extended out to 2022. So all these companions tickets that I had, that I would’ve been frustrated that I wasn’t able to use because we weren’t flying. They’re like, man, don’t worry about it. You have till the middle of 20, 22 to use those as well as extending other deadlines around using your benefits. So they could take into account that delays in people’s travel plans that have happened over the last year.

Dan Gingiss (07:55):
Yeah. Well, and basically we talk about knowing your customer and we’ve talked about that at no time in the past, and hopefully the future, will there ever have been more clarity about understanding what your customers are going through because everybody went through the same thing at the same time. And so I think Delta is smart in the sense that, you know, they understand they got to get people back on planes. They understand that customers like you, who are the, I dunno, what are you the triple diamond deleted, double, double dare, whatever status is. I mean, these are the people they really need back and their most loyal customers. And you know, they’re what I like about these examples is they’re very timely right there. They understand what frequent travelers who pay attention to this stuff MQMS and miles and, you know, qualifying dollars and all this sort of stuff that they understand what you’re thinking about. And the fact that, Oh man, I traveled for three months in 2020, and I was well on my way. And then I lost them all. And, and they’re addressing that almost before. It becomes a frustration, which I think is great.

Joey Coleman (09:05):
I couldn’t agree more, Dan. And here’s the interesting thing and why I wanted to talk about this. This doesn’t just apply to the airlines. Every business on the planet over the last year that had any type of in-person interaction with their customers – whether you had a retail store, whether you had an event venue that people came to hotels, airlines, other forms of a mass transportation gathering places, you name it, movie theaters, anywhere where people came to visit, they’re now going to start thinking about going there again – but people are going to be anxious. And they’re going to be anxious for good reason. We’re not judging the anxiousness that people have. And a lot of business owners are like, ah, already come, come visit our store. We need the business. We want you back. Everything’s clean, everything’s safe. We’re good to go. The moral, that story here is we are going beyond the medical realities and now we’re starting to dip into the psychological realities of our customer base. And so I think what Delta is doing is really leading the way by to your point, being rich with what they’re offering and going above and beyond, you know, they, you notice they don’t say that these are going to be the rules forever. They’re just saying, Hey, for the, basically the second half of 2021, we’re going to do a bunch of things that will excite you to get back on planes. So what’s the moral of the story here. Let your customers know that you’re ready to welcome them back to in-person interactions. Welcome them on their schedule. Not your schedule. Consider some gracious enticements to get them to come back sooner rather than later, or at least to feel well provided for when they do come back. You don’t need to make these changes permanently, but take some steps now to kind of juice things up and make it exciting for them so that they come back extend any deadlines that you have friends pandemics. Aren’t the time for policies. I said this on the show a year ago, as we entered the challenging COVID era. And here we are a year later, and guess what? This same message holds true. Pandemics aren’t the time for policies. So switch your policies to be even more customer centric and more customer focused than they were before. And if you do all these things, your customers will come back in the weeks and months to come.

Joey Coleman (11:27):
We love telling stories and sharing key insights you can implement or avoid based on our experiences. Can you believe that This Just Happened?

Joey Coleman (11:41):
You know, Dan, last week I saw a video online and then within about 36 hours, I’d say no, fewer than 10 of my friends emailed a link to this video. Now I know if I were to ask you to guess what this video is about, I would be opening myself to all kinds of ridicule and jokes that you might have. So let me just say this…

Dan Gingiss (12:03):
Who me?

Joey Coleman (12:03):
Surprise, surprise! Let me just say this. The video was of something called ski riding. Now I had never seen ski riding before ski riding is what happens evidently based on this video, when you put on a pair of skis and you’re wearing a paraglider, which is like a controllable parachute that you can inflate from the ground as opposed to jumping out of an airplane. So this is, think of a combination of paragliding, i.e. parachuting, through a mountain ski town, while you’re also wearing skis, doing stunts and tricks.

Dan Gingiss (12:44):
This sounds like a X Games sport or something like that…

Joey Coleman (12:47):
It does sound like an X Game sport, which is probably not surprising then that the sponsor of this video was actually red bull. Oh, red bull. Yeah. Well, they’ve had some interesting stunts in the past they have, and this is kind of the newest piece. So what I’d like to do ladies and gentlemen, I know this is an audio based show. So it’s going to be little weird to talk about a video without you having seen the video. So what I’d like you to do is press pause, go to the shownotes at ExperienceThisShow.com and at the very top, you’re going to see a big link to the Red Bull ski riding video. And I want you to watch the video. Now, if you happen to be driving or working out right now, and you’re not going to do it, I’m going to play for you the first minute of the video with some narration, but please I’ve never implored with such a emphasis. Go watch this video. It is insane. Just even what you’re about to witness the feet of human extreme sports nature that is captured in this video, that alone is we’re seeing not to mention what we’re going to talk about. All right? So here’s the deal. When you go to the video, here’s what you’ll see.

Joey Coleman (14:04):
You hear the wind blowing through your air. As the skier comes over, does a loop. He’s flying through the air. There’s a drone behind him tracking down the mountain as he goes to over trees. And now he’s cutting between two buildings. That sound, you just heard that one, and that one, that’s him actually running into the sides of buildings with his skis. Now here that like the laser sound, that’s his skis on the metal that is the chairlift, not actually on the chairs, but on the metal cables, connecting the chairs. This is insane. He’s parachuting down. He just almost hit some birds. And now off the railing and he’s going off the snow with the top of buildings. Now, his feet are actually on the ground. The first time he’s grabbing the parachute and he’s bundling it up into a ball in front of him. Now he’s tucking down and he’s going faster and faster. Oh my goodness. He just went through an igloo, jumped out of the other side, do a flip he’s firing off. Oh my God, she’s got a can of Red Bull. He’s drinking red bull. He just threw it in the recycling bin. Now he’s, reinflating the parachute you skiing around. Okay. Oh my goodness. We could go on. I have given you a minute and six seconds of this video that is over two minutes long. It is crazy. It’s crazy to see this now, why would I want to tell you about a video? Because the video captured so much excitement, so much spirit for the brand and showed me things that I didn’t even think was possible. And as a result, I wanted to talk about what I had seen. Now. Here’s the crazy thing. Who is the video for stopping to remember the beginning of this conversation? When Dan said, Oh, it sounds like an X games type of thing. And I told you the brand, we’ve only mentioned the brand once, but I’d be willing to bet you remember who it was. Dan, who is the brand?

Dan Gingiss (15:59):
I’m going to go with red bull for 200.

Joey Coleman (16:04):
That would be red bull.

Dan Gingiss (16:05):
So Dan, are you a red bull drinker? What do you know about red bull? I am not a red bull drinker. I tasted it once. It is, let’s just say not for me. And, uh, but I, I associate it with extreme sports with, with people that are outdoor Z, you know, doing all these sports, I kind of like to keep my feet on the ground. And so I kinda, I, I associated with people who are more willing to have their feet off the ground. Let’s put it that way.

Joey Coleman (16:33):
A little crazy, a little adventurous. And here’s the reason I wanted to talk about this. Red Bull has made an aspirational video. Even if you never have any intention, Dan, of putting skis on and attaching yourself to a parachute and speedriding through an Alpine town that appears abandoned in the video, doing flips in the air, bouncing off buildings, sliding down the cables of a chairlift at a ski resort, you can appreciate what you saw. And I think the takeaway that I had as it relates to customer experience is we talk so often about the features and the benefits of our products. You know, this is the very elements of our products. You know, here are the components of our service. Here’s what it’s going to do for your business. And we don’t as often talk about the aspirational aspects of our products and our services, what type of people use our products and services? What type of people do our customers become because of our products and services. And if we think back to commercials, you may have seen in the past from Red Bull, they drank it in these little wings appear and they kind of float off the characters. The whole idea is that red bull takes you to a different level of the human experience that you didn’t think was possible.

Dan Gingiss (17:58):
Yeah, it’s very brand, right. I mean, I remember the viral video around the guy that was jumping out of the, what was it, a rocket ship, any, uh, he jumped out of it with

Joey Coleman (18:09):
Exactly. Yeah. They basically put them up in a balloon into space and he jumped out and fell all the way back down to earth.

Dan Gingiss (18:17):
It definitely has an element of crazy to it, but that’s the brand. And I think that today, I always talk about something slightly different, but I, I talk about being witty and being humorous and those are two different things and that there’s only certain brands and I think of brands like Taco Bell or Wendy’s that kind of have permission to be humorous. And unfortunately, most of us don’t work for Taco Bell or Wendy’s, it’s our brand probably doesn’t have that permission.

Joey Coleman (18:44):
And then why do you think they have permission? Because I think that’s an interesting way to put it. I have an idea of why they have permission. Why do you think they have permission to be that way?

Dan Gingiss (18:54):
Well, first of all, I think their target audience is, is fairly specifically at a younger, a younger type of person, a millennial and younger, uh, who appreciates that kind of a humor. And I think over time, actually, I think they’ve built that permission and built the reputation over time of being humorous, funny brands, much as Red Bull has built this reputation of being, you know, an extreme sports, loving, daredevil type brand, which again, your listeners listening your brand probably isn’t that, but that’s okay because your brand is probably something else is really what I’m saying.

Joey Coleman (19:34):
Agreed. And I think when you say, you know, they have permission to do that. I think part of the reason I agree with you wholeheartedly, that they built that equity over time with their target markets and what their customers, that that’s kind of the edginess or that’s the aspect of their brand spirit. But I also think they made a decision to go in and just be who they were. To just show up fully without any apology for what their brand was. We’ve all come to appreciate the brand of Wendy’s on social media. We’ve all come to appreciate the extreme nature of Red Bull, whether it’s in their videos, whether it’s in their sponsorships, the crazy stunts they do, you know, kind of the feature film-type level production that they create. And I think the conversation that I’d love our listeners to have is to meet with your teams and talk about what is the aspirational version of our brand. When people use our products, when people use our services, what does it allow them to be? And really extend that out beyond just the benefits to speak more to this type of person uses our product. You know, Dan, you, and it is often back and forth about Apple vs. PC, right? And I am a 100% Apple guy. Through and through. I know you use a lot of Apple products as well, but I think Apple has basically created a brand that people take pride in being an Apple person, because Apple is owning the brand and the aesthetic of their videos, the aesthetic of their ads, the messaging of their communications, all align with that brand in the same way that red bulls aligned with their brand with this crazy skiing video. So what do we do from here? I’m not suggesting that you take your CEO, strap them into a parachute, put some skis on them and throw them down the side of a mountain. Okay. What I am suggesting is that you think of creative ways to capture your brand spirit. As much as you create advertising and things that are designed to promote your brand and promote your service, I would love it. If you would start to consider creating aspirational communications – things that capture your brand spirit, promote that and let people know who they can be when they experience your brand.

Joey Coleman (21:56):
Almost everyone has interacted with chatbots but all too often, it’s been a bad experience. In MythBusters – presented by Solvvy – we explore a common myth about CX chatbots and see how the right technology can create a positive experience every time.

Joey Coleman (22:20):
Today’s myth about chatbots? Chatbots, can’t drive revenue for your business. At this point, CX and support leaders probably understand that an intelligent chat bot and automation platform can help deliver huge savings and productivity improvements. A next gen chat bot instantly resolves 50% plus of customer issues before support tickets are needed and frees up agents to handle the most challenging issues.

Dan Gingiss (22:48):
But can a chat bot actually drive additional revenue for your business? Why? Yes, it can. With the next gen chatbot companies now have a powerful tool to help would be customers quickly find what they’re looking for, enabling better and faster purchases. Chatbots handle product or service questions for shoppers and provide intelligent recommendations based on the chat or other contextual clues. Your customers will love not having to hunt around a website to find what they need. And some chatbots let you drop items right into a shopping cart or buy directly that’s instant chat bot revenue.

Joey Coleman (23:24):
For your current customers or subscribers, how cool would it be if your support chat bot was able to help them add additional software licenses, right? When they ask or help them upgrade from a free meme account to a paid account.

Dan Gingiss (23:39):
Or help them take advantage of an extended deadline and a companion certificate on Delta Airlines to get you to book your flight?!

Joey Coleman (23:45):
Exactly. If your team handles these sorts of critical transactions, you know, they can often result in phone calls that take up a ton of agent time. And the intelligent chat bot means faster transactions for your customers, lower agent involvement, and you guessed it more revenue from your team.

Dan Gingiss (24:05):
And that’s another myth busted, thanks to our friends and podcast supporters at Solvvy – the NextGen chatbot. Find them at Solvvy.com. That’s S-O-L-V-V-Y.com.

Joey Coleman (24:21):
There are so many great customer experience articles to read, but who has the time?! We summarize them and offer clear takeaways you can implement starting tomorrow. Enjoy this segment of CX Press – where we read the articles so you don’t need to!

Joey Coleman (24:39):
Dan, I have a question for you. What is the greatest number of zoom calls you’ve done in a single day?

Dan Gingiss (24:47):
Oh boy. Well, I wouldn’t call it great by any stretch of imagination, but I’d say probably in the neighborhood of eight or nine is maybe my tops.

Joey Coleman (24:55):
Wow, wow. Yeah. I’m not sure what my record count number is for the number of calls. But the other day I got on my first Zoom call at 6:45 AM and I didn’t get off my last Zoom call of the day until 10:00 PM. And I had a total of 60 minutes throughout the day in frankly, 10 to 20 minute chunks, when I wasn’t on Zoom. And to be honest, that’s why today’s CX press story written by Anna Schaverien – who’s a reporter for the New York Times who covers news from her home base in London – resonated so much with me. The article is titled, “Citi creates Zoom-free Fridays to Combat Pandemic Fatigue,” and it details plans that the bank has to create one day each week, when workers can avoid being on camera for internal calls.

Dan Gingiss (25:45):
For a minute there, I thought you were talking about like an entire city, but you’re talking about the bank.

Joey Coleman (25:49):
Yes. Citi banks, Citi Group – they’re mostly known for Citibank.

Dan Gingiss (25:53):
Indeed, well, I love this idea. And in fact, because of a LinkedIn post recently from, uh, our mutual friend, Dorie Clark, I actually have started blocking Fridays off of my calendar for similar reasons is that you just sometimes need a day to get work done. And you know, one of the biggest reasons I left corporate America was I hated the meetings. I just didn’t like going back to back to back to back to all these meetings. And I always found that there were certain colleagues, who will remain nameless, that it’s like the meetings were what made them feel important.

Joey Coleman (26:28):
Meeings about meetings?!

Dan Gingiss (26:32):
Well, if they weren’t in the meeting, they didn’t feel like they were included. And so they were always, well, you know, invite me to the meeting. And I was like, don’t invite me to the meeting because when I’m in meetings, I’m not getting work done. And I think that’s what guessing this article kind of gets at is, man we could spend all day on Zoom, but are you actually being productive?

Joey Coleman (26:50):
A couple of things. And you’re, you’re spot on Dan and I to applaud our mutual friend, Dorie Clark friends, listeners, if you’re not familiar with Dorie and her fantastic books, her courses on LinkedIn Learning, her blog posts, her articles that she writes, she’s absolutely incredible! And you’re right. I think over the last year what’s happened is people have gotten comfortable with rolling out of bed, into a virtual meeting or spending all day. As I like to think of it sometime dressed very nicely on top with sweat pants on the bottom and this whole proliferation of video calls, whether that’s with our prospects, with our customers, even with our coworkers and our colleagues has just become exhausting. And that’s why Citi group decided to start this new end of week tradition. So going forward, they’re going to have zoom free Fridays. Now the bank’s new chief executive Jane Frazier announced this plan in a memo sent to employees: “Recognizing that workers have spent inordinate amounts of time of the past 12 months, staring at video calls, Citi is now encouraging its employees to take a step back from Zoom and other video conferencing platforms for one day every week.

Dan Gingiss (27:58):
You know, it’s funny. I just have to interrupt you for a second because I’ve been thinking about this, that Zoom is becoming one of those brands that is also a verb – like Google, or Xerox.

Joey Coleman (28:13):
Exactly. Yeah. It’s the most… prior to this, Google was the big one in our society that, uh, a brand name that it become a verb, and I agree with you in the last year, Zoom has become a verb.

Dan Gingiss (28:24):
And, and so we should say, just given that this is talking about Zoom-free Fridays, that obviously this is not a knock on Zoom. It’s really video conferencing free Fridays, but that’s a little harder to say.

Joey Coleman (28:34):
Absolutely. And I will say zoom, I think is probably a case study for the business that is handled the pandemic the best. Can you think of any other business, maybe like online grocery store delivery that has seen the huge growth that Zoom has seen over the course of the last year. And as much as we might be experiencing Zoom fatigue, they’ve done a remarkable job delivering a consistent, fantastic experience.

Dan Gingiss (29:00):
Yeah, absolutely. And there’s, I know some great people that work there. It’s a terrific company. So Frazier who’s the CEO of Citi group said in this article and I’m quoting “[t]he blurring of lines between home and work and the relentlessness of the pandemic Workday have taken a toll on our wellbeing. After listening to colleagues around the world, it became apparent. We need to combat the Zoom fatigue that many of us feel” end quote. The memo went on to note that going forward, no one at the company would have to turn their video on for any internal meetings on Fridays. External meetings with clients and regulators that need to happen via Zoom still will happen that way, even if it’s on a Friday.

Joey Coleman (29:39):
Yeah. So they’re still going to have video. They’re still going to, you know, use that as a tool. They just want to be more conscious about it. Now what’s interesting is this all too common phrase of zoom fatigue that we’ve heard about has led to some recent research from Stanford university that they talked about in the article and the research was trying to figure out why video calls feel so draining and in a peer reviewed article that was published in the journal Technology Mind and Behavior, professor Jeremy Bailenson, who’s the founding director of the Stanford Virtual Human Interaction Lab detailed several reasons why video calls can be so much more exhausting than in-person conversations, including: number one, the excessive eye contact involved in video calls. Number two, the unnatural situation of seeing ourselves on screen while we’re doing a video call and number three, having to stay in the same fixed spot during the call.

Dan Gingiss (30:34):
And I don’t know if this is the same study or not Joey, but I was listening to NPR today. And I heard about a study that also said that one of the after effects of spending so much time on video conferencing is that it is causing people to get too tired while they’re driving afterwards. And it’s causing so much fatigue that the people are now advising that if you’ve spent a lot of time in video conferencing, that you take a break, that you get your blood pumping before you get behind the wheel of a car.

Joey Coleman (31:07):
Oh wow. This looks like those “do not operate heavy machinery” warning signs, right?

Dan Gingiss (31:12):
Yeah. It’s, it’s really, really interesting. So this research also noted that because we have to put in more effort to make an interpret nonverbal communications video calls are more tiring. I think this might be the same research because that’s what this NPR story said as well. So Professor Bailenson said, quote, “[i]f you want to show someone that you’re agreeing with them, you have to do an exaggerated nod or put your thumb up. That adds cognitive load as you’re using mental calories in order to communicate” unquote. In fact, a key mistake that companies made when setting up work from home conditions last year was to treat zoom calls as the equivalent of face to face meetings, without considering that additional mental burden placed on workers and the downtime need to process what was said between the calls.

Joey Coleman (31:59):
So true, Dan, you know, at the end of the day, I’m not anti-video call. And I don’t think this article in this research is either what I do think we need to consider is giving ourselves and our colleagues and our co-workers permission not to do video calls, permission, to take more breaks, permission to set up Zoom-free days where we do no Zoom calls. I would argue that we should also have meeting free days where we have no meetings whatsoever so that we can have more time to actually be productive and get work done. And I’ll tell you one little tip in closing that I found has been incredibly effective. When somebody wants to set a schedule, a call, I’ve actually been starting to suggest that we do a walking call and the way the walk-in call works is instead of doing Zoom, why don’t we call each other on our cell phones and agree to walk around the block? It’s the socially distanced, you know, pandemic acceptable way to get a little exercise, to break some of that Zoom fatigue and to address that kind of pandemic video weight that we’ve all been experiencing. So as the pandemic begins to ebb, as we think about getting back to our offices, as we think about more in-person meetings, I encourage you to manage your own schedule and your habits more and make sure that you’re not causing your own fatigue.

Joey Coleman (33:20):
Thanks for joining us for another episode of Experience This! You are the best listener ever!

Dan Gingiss (33:31):
And since you listened to the whole show…

Joey Coleman (33:33):
Yay you!

Dan Gingiss (33:35):
We’re curious… Was there a specific part of this episode that you enjoyed the most? If so, it would mean the world to us if you could share it with a coworker, a friend, or someone that just loves listening to podcasts,

Joey Coleman (33:46):
And while you’re in the sharing mood, if you felt inclined to jump over to iTunes – or wherever you find your podcasts – and write us a review, we would so appreciate it. And when you do, don’t forget to let us know as we might have a little surprise for you.

Dan Gingiss (34:00):
Thanks again for your time and we’ll see you next week for more.

Joey Coleman (34:04):
Experience!

Dan Gingiss (34:05):
This!

Episode 128 – The Recipe for a Successful Customer Experience

Join us as we discuss the state of customer experience in 2021, the answers to all of your baking questions, and what we love – and can’t stand – about hiring contractors.

Findings, Flour, and Fixer-Uppers – Oh My!

Referenced in the Show

The Definitive Guide to CX 2021 – by Conversocial

• Bakers Hotline – King Arthur Baking Company

Host Contact Information

Email Dan: Dan@dangingiss.com

Tweet Dan Gingiss: @DGingiss

Email Joey: JoeyC@JoeyColeman.com

DanGingiss.com

JoeyColeman.com

Subscribe to Experience This on Apple Podcasts

Learn more about our Season 7 Partner – Solvvy – The NextGen Chatbot

Episode Transcript

Download an unedited transcript of Episode 128 here or read it below:

Joey Coleman (00:05):
Welcome to Experience This!

Dan Gingiss (00:08):
The podcast that celebrates remarkable customer experiences and inspires you to stand out from the competition by wowing your customers.

Joey Coleman (00:17):
Each episode, we bring you a healthy dose of inspiring stories, funny interactions, and practical takeaways. Marketing and customer experience thought leader, Dan Gingiss…

Dan Gingiss (00:30):
shares the mic with customer retention and employee experience expert, Joey Coleman, helping you to get people talking about your business.

Joey Coleman (00:40):
So get ready because it’s time to Experience This!

Dan Gingiss (00:51):
Get ready for another episode of the Experience This! Show!

Joey Coleman (00:55):
Join us as we discuss this state of customer experience in 2021, the answers to all of your baking questions, and what we love, and can’t stand, about hiring contractors.

Dan Gingiss (01:10):
Findings, Flour, and Fixer-Uppers – Oh my!

Joey Coleman (01:21):
Surveys, reports, studies, and reviews. There are some great resources that look at consumer behavior to find emerging trends and established patterns. We dig through the data and bring you the key takeaways in this edition of Inside the Numbers.

Dan Gingiss (01:42):
For this edition of inside the numbers. We’ll be talking about one of my favorite annual reports, The State of CX Trends report by Conversocial.

Joey Coleman (01:51):
I love that you have a favorite annual report! You’re a research-based guy, Dan, I like that!

Dan Gingiss (01:56):
Well, it’s one of my favorites, but this is the eighth edition of this report and I remember highlighting a much earlier edition in my first book, Winning at Social Customer Care, and man have things changed since then! So Conversocial surveyed 2000 consumers in the United States and European Union. Their report, and I’m quoting here, “looks to provide a comprehensive overview of how consumers communicate or at least want to communicate with your brand and allow you to benchmark where your corporate peers are focusing their efforts and budgets.” So let’s dive into some of the key findings of this report. Conversocial found three main trends, and we’re going to walk through them one at a time with some statistics that support them. The first trend was that customers have made the move to messaging, but brands lag behind. So 69% of consumers used a private messaging channel to engage with a brand in the past 12 months. I am sure that is not a huge surprise that it is an 87% increase over 2019. Certainly this was a pandemic driven…

Joey Coleman (03:08):
Pandemic experience, ladies and gentlemen, indeed!

Dan Gingiss (03:12):
41% of consumers used messaging for a customer service issue, 36% to buy a product, and 29% to ask a product related question.

Joey Coleman (03:23):
You know, another interesting data point along the same lines about the trend towards messaging with brands lagging behind is that 71% of the folks surveyed expected brands to offer customer support over messaging channels and 66% expected personalized customer experience over messaging channels. So I think, uh, our day-to-day habits of texting each other and using that type of messaging is spilling into our interactions with brands as well.

Dan Gingiss (03:55):
Absolutely – and now we expect brands to be there for us in that channel. Now it is not often that you can survey 2000 people and have 96% agree on anything.

Joey Coleman (04:06):
Yeah, this is a shock!

Dan Gingiss (04:07):
But in fact, 96% of respondents said that a good customer experience over messaging channels was somewhat or very important to their brand loyalty. 96%. I think I’d like to make sure that all of my client’s businesses have messaging channels don’t you?

Joey Coleman (04:29):
Absolutely. And I think here’s the thing I get as a business owner. And I’m sure you do as well, Dan, that when we think about all the channels we need to be available to our customers on it becomes pretty overwhelming. Especially if you’re in one of the millions of businesses that don’t have a ton of employees. You know, if you have three or four employees, you’re often having a hard enough time taking care of the emails and the phone calls, let alone the text messages, the comments on social, you know, the passenger pigeon flying in with a message for you, whatever it may be. I do think though that the ship has sailed that we need to recognize that it’s not enough to say, yeah, but I’m doing a really good job over on this other platform. We’ve got to make messaging channels like texting a priority in our channel strategies.

Dan Gingiss (05:18):
Absolutely. So I think the key finding in this particular trend is that customers want to communicate with companies over those same familiar channels that they use to talk with their friends and family and folks, if that’s what your customers want, you got to start looking into it if you’re not there yet. And I’ll tell you even some small businesses in my area, we’re going to talk about contractors later in the show, and I’ve been noticing that some of the local contractors that are not more than a couple of employees are using messaging very effectively to tell me that they’re on their way, or that they’re stuck in traffic, to send me quotes, to even send me invoices. And I’m doing a lot more transactions over messaging, which I think is great because it’s the fastest way to get ahold of me and I can get things done really quickly.

Joey Coleman (06:03):
Yeah. I totally agree with you, Dan. I’d be remiss if I didn’t say though, I wonder if that will change over time in the sense that it used to be like, Oh, it’s so great that they’re sending emails and now we’re like, Ugh. And then now it starts to seem like, Oh, it’s so great that they’re doing this over text. Does there, I’m already starting to feel sometimes that my little notifications on my phone of how many unread text messages I’ve had starts to almost feel as scary as the number of unread emails, but maybe that’s just me. We’re a bit, we’re moving in that direction though, but it’s not enough to just be frustrated with it. We got to go do something about it.

Dan Gingiss (06:41):
And now I know why it takes so long for Joey to get back to me on text!

Joey Coleman (06:44):
I have you on a blocked list, my friend – sorry.

Dan Gingiss (06:46):
Okay. Gotcha.

Joey Coleman (06:47):
You’ve been blocked.

Dan Gingiss (06:48):
Why don’t you, uh, move us to the second trend?

Joey Coleman (06:51):
Well, the second trend, I think in some ways addresses the challenge that I just raised and that is that bots continue to play an increasingly important role in CX delivery. 71% of consumers in the commerce social report said that they would happily use a bot if it improved their customer experience or answered their support question quicker. So for those fast turn things, we have no problem speaking.

Dan Gingiss (07:18):
Right. But then here’s where things got interesting. The survey asked, do you feel comfortable with customer experience interactions and customer support questions being driven by or answered by automation? And interestingly here only 48% of people said yes and 52% said no. So what we can glean from that is the people that are ready and are using messaging and want to use messaging, they’re super excited about it, especially if it improves their experience or, or makes things happen more quickly, but we haven’t yet sold all consumers on this. And I think that was to Joey’s point a little bit about, you know, it took a while to get people sold on email and even digital, and now we’re trying to get them sold on messaging. So the key finding here is that artificial intelligence has been driving success with a lot of companies who are using chatbots, but there is still some consumer mistrust. And you know, we’ve got to get over that by explaining things to people, by letting them experiment with it, by offering other channels as well for people maybe that don’t have smartphones or are just not comfortable using the phone, et cetera.

Joey Coleman (08:31):
Well, I think we probably also need to make sure we’re using some Next Gen chatbots like those by our great friends at Solvvy, because a lot of the chat bot technology is evolving so quickly that brands are using old chat bots and not really taking the full advantage of the automation that’s available to them.

Dan Gingiss (08:50):
Exactly. So the third and final trend from the Conversocial report was brands can still generate brand loyalty, but they must differentiate. And I thought this was really interesting. There were two questions that were asked, uh, that I’ll report on here. The first was how loyal do you feel towards your favorite brands? And 55% of customers said they felt loyal. Another 33% actually said very loyal.

Joey Coleman (09:19):
So that’s 88% for those of you that were told there would be no math on the Experience This Show! 88% feel loyal or very loyal towards their favorite brands. That’s very significant.

Dan Gingiss (09:29):
Yes. And of course this is your favorite brand. And so you’d, you’d hope there’d be loyalty, but still 10% felt indifferent. And 1% said, no loyalty. Now then the, the survey asks, what main characteristics make you feel loyal to your favorite company? And here the answers really got spread out and I think this was worth talking about. 29% said the product or service offering was what made them feel loyal. 25% said, great customer service experiences. 23% said competitive pricing, 15% said brand reputation. And then only 7% said personalization of the experience. And a mere 3% said if the company was socially aware. So I thought this was kind of interesting because I dunno I would have thought that the great customer service experiment experience might’ve been higher. I think reputation often plays a really big role because people feel associated with brands. What did you think about that one?

Joey Coleman (10:35):
Well, I think that, you know, the challenge with any survey and the fact of the matter is the folks at Conversocial do a really good job. As you mentioned, this is multiple years running. Their survey methodology, as far as we can tell, is really solid. I think the reason why personalization and socially aware were so low is twofold. Number one brands, aren’t doing enough of it, right? So when you think about the brands that you’re really loyal to how much personalization is actually happening, so you can’t score it high for personalization because maybe you’re loyal, but there isn’t a high level of personalization. And the same with being socially aware. I mean, I know increasingly this is something that I’m paying attention to. I know a lot of my consulting clients were paying attention to, you know, where do you stand on some of the big social issues of the day and of our time. But I think a lot of brands are kind of in this, not exactly sure space of well, if we come out too strongly in favor of a position of a certain social issue, we might alienate some folks. And the reality is, yes, you will. But, the ones who are most loyal to you, might double down even more.

Dan Gingiss (11:46):
And that my friends is the state or at least the short version of the State of CX Trends Report by Conversocial. We’ll put a link in the show notes. If you’d like to go download the full report for yourself.

Joey Coleman (11:59):
We love telling stories and sharing key insights you can implement, or avoid, based on our experiences. Can you believe that This Just Happened?

Dan Gingiss (12:12):
Joey – I know you’d like to cook with your wife. Do you also like to bake at all maybe with the kids?

Joey Coleman (12:22):
Well, you know what Dan, I certainly enjoy these activities, but I’d be remiss because my wife listens to the show. I like to cook with my wife. I’m not super sure that she likes it when I joined into the cooking. She loves when I do the dishes that I know for sure. And with the kids, I will say one of the upsides of the pandemic has been a lot more time with the kids and we have baked some chocolate chip cookies and some other stuff like that. So yeah, there has been a little more baking than usual.

Dan Gingiss (12:51):
Excellent. So let me ask you something else. When you have a question about something that you’re cooking or baking, whom do you ask?

Joey Coleman (12:59):
Well, first on that list is usually my wife. Second on that list would be my mom. Third on the list would probably be calling you. And the fact that I’ve never called you for advice probably is an indicator of how rarely I actually cook or bake.

Dan Gingiss (13:13):
Gotcha. Or how low down on the list I am.

Joey Coleman (13:16):
You’re in the top three buddy! You’re in the top three, guaranteed.

Dan Gingiss (13:20):
Well, I mean, you’re definitely in the top three of my favorite podcast co-hosts.

Joey Coleman (13:25):
Unbelievable.

Dan Gingiss (13:27):
Anyway, uh, yes, Dan did use to have another podcast. So anyway, I have always called my mom for help cooking or baking. She is a wonderful cook, a terrific Baker used to have her own catering company that was baked goods only. And, uh, you know, I love going over there when she is baking something. But that of course begs the question. If I call her for when I have, when I need help. Who does she call when she’s stuck? Now to answer that, let me first tell you a quick story that actually also has to do with chocolate chip cookies. So my mom for years has made the traditional Toll House chocolate chip cookie recipe. Although mom, I’m going to do it. I’m going to spoil this and share it.

Joey Coleman (14:15):
Oh no. Mrs. Gingiss! I am so sorry. I am not part of this. This is unsanctioned behavior by your son. I am not condoning this behavior.

Dan Gingiss (14:23):
Well, if you want to have the Gingiss version of toll house chocolate chip cookies, you just make a tiny, tiny, tiny change to the recipe. You just double the chocolate chips. You can thank me later. Anyway, a number of years ago, my mom made a Toll House chocolate chip cookies with double the chocolate chips. And I happened to comment to her that I thought it was the best batch she had ever made. Now to give you a tiny bit of background, I often give her feedback on cooking, baking, and she asks me for feedback cause she trusts my judgment and thinks I have, you know, decent taste around these things. But I said to her man, these cookies are really, really good. I think they’re the best you’ve ever made. And she said, well that’s because I used a new flour in them. I said, okay, tell me more. And so she introduced me to the King Arthur flour company, whose slogan is by the way, baking with joy since 1790.

Joey Coleman (15:18):
Wait, you didn’t say 1970, you said 1790, right?

Dan Gingiss (15:23):
I said 1790.

Joey Coleman (15:25):
Wow. They’re almost as old as the United States!

Dan Gingiss (15:28):
Exactly. Now King Arthur flour company is an employee owned company. And they mentioned on their website that every one of us are bakers at heart. And for generations we’ve been there with you as you bake. Our mission is to be the ultimate resource and inspiration in the kitchen to inspire connections and community through baking and to use our business as a force for good. Now I decided for this segment to go check out their website and besides from all the recipes, and articles, and other really good content that they have King Arthur offers a bakers hotline.

Joey Coleman (16:03):
Of course they do. I love it!

Dan Gingiss (16:05):
And when you navigate to it on the website, you are greeted with the following quote, your bread fell flat, your cookies crumbled, who do you turn to the King? Arthur Baker’s hotline. Our professional bakers are ready to guide you through any baking challenge. Call – there’s a phone number, email, or chat online. We can help.

Joey Coleman (16:27):
You know, I love this. I love the idea of being able to reach out and get some support because maybe you can’t ask your spouse or maybe you can’t ask your mom, or your dad, or whoever it is that you normally would reach out to for help. This is a great idea. You know, I’m reminded of the Thanksgiving hotline that Butterball Turkey has, right? There’s this great scene in one of the old episodes of West Wing, where they call in and it’s giving advice to the person on the other end of the line, uh, for the hotline. But I had not ever heard of the King Arthur Baker’s hotline.

Dan Gingiss (17:02):
Well, so I talked to my mom about this recently and she said she has been calling them for years. And she…

Joey Coleman (17:08):
The secret technique of Mrs Gingiss. I like!

Dan Gingiss (17:12):
Exactly it. She says that they will answer anything and I’m quoting her. She told me today, everyone I’ve ever spoken to is patient with me and kind now here’s, what’s fascinating is this came up because my mom explained to me that she called them earlier this week about a recipe. Are you ready for this? That didn’t even have flour in it because it was a flowerless chocolate cake. I loved that. And I applaud it. I was like, mom, that’s awesome. You called a flour company to ask them if she had a, she had a good question. She had a question about the recipe called for table salt, and she only had kosher salt. And she knew that that was not a one-to-one ratio. And she asked them, you know, she said, here’s what I’m making and what should the ratio be? And they cheerfully answered her question. They didn’t say, well, where are you calling us?

Joey Coleman (18:05):
We’re only willing to give advice for flour baked goods!

Dan Gingiss (18:08):
Exactly. And so I think this is absolutely phenomenal. And of course not only is this now the only flour that my mom buys, she actually gets it for me too. And for my sister and, you know, we pack our cupboards with it because it produces a better product. But now I know it is also a very forward-thinking, even though it was created in 1790, and customer friendly company – which I think is amazing and not that hard to accomplish, right?! I mean, all they’re doing is becoming an educational resource with their articles and recipes and their hotline so that if you’re interested in baking, they want to be the go-to place. I don’t know. Kind of reminds me a little bit of our friend Marcus. Sheridan’s they ask you answer. They want to be the place you go to, if you have questions about baking. And I think that’s brilliant.

Joey Coleman (19:01):
I think it’s absolutely brilliant. And you know what also comes to mind here, Dan, and I’m, I’m guessing, I don’t know, but I’m guessing that the folks at King Arthur employ the folks that work on the Baker’s hotline, but I can almost envision a world where strong brand advocates like your mom could be answering calls for other bakers. And when you go back to kind of their mission of being a resource and inspiring connection and community, I see some businesses could get creative about just connecting your existing customers to other existing customers in an easy way that they can help and support each other. It doesn’t have to be necessarily a line item expense where you’re going to roll out a call center. You could just empower your current customers to help your newer customers and help each other along the way.

Dan Gingiss (19:51):
I love that. And I’m reminded of, I think a company that does that amazingly well is into it with their TurboTax product, is there is a huge community of people that answer. I mean, imagine how many questions people have about filing their taxes, tens of thousands of questions every year. And no, there’s no call center in the universe that can handle all of these questions, but they have a really involved community that does it. So I love that idea and example. I will say, just to close up that they are employees because on the King Arthur website are the pictures and bios of all of the people that act as the sort of bakers consultants that you may end up talking to or emailing to, and you could see their pictures, you could see their backgrounds, their favorite recipes and all that sort of stuff, which of course, again, bring some personalization to it and, and makes you realize that you’re talking to another human who shares your love of baking. And I think the whole thing is terrific. So go check out King Arthur flour. The next time you want to bake something, pick it up at your local grocery store and you’ll make the best chocolate chip cookies you’ve ever tasted.

Joey Coleman (21:01):
Almost everyone has interacted with chatbots, but all too often, it’s been a bad experience. In MythBusters, presented by Solvvy, we explore a common myth about CX chatbots and see how the right technology can create a positive experience, every time.

Dan Gingiss (21:24):
Today’s myth about chatbots? Chatbots don’t work across multiple channels. We learned earlier in the show that bots continue to play an increasingly important role in CX delivery. But one of the common concerns we’ve heard about chatbots is that while they work on your company’s website or maybe your mobile app, they aren’t necessarily easy to deploy across all of the places that customers contact your company that is chat bots. Aren’t omni-channel. They only work in the specific context or area for which they are constructed, and that’s not a particularly flexible or scalable solution.

Joey Coleman (21:59):
Ah, but the reality is that next gen chat bot technology allows you to train the bot once and deploy it practically anywhere. Modern chat bot platforms can be used across many different channels, which is critical. Now that there’s so many ways to connect with a company or brand, as we talked about earlier, with the Conversocial findings – whether that’s web, or mobile, or phone, or chat, or Facebook messenger, or WhatsApp, and probably a bunch of others that I can’t even think of right now, Dan!

Dan Gingiss (22:28):
I’m pretty proud of you for pulling out a couple of those social media examples that are Joey.

Joey Coleman (22:33):
Well, I try to learn every day. If you build and train a chat bot for answering questions on your website, you can now extend that technology to the other channels that customers are using in a faster and more cost-effective way, no more reinventing the wheel. And best of all, you’re able to provide a consistent experience to your audience. So your brand is always well-represented.

Dan Gingiss (22:55):
And that’s another myth busted, thanks to our friends and podcast supporters at Solvvy – the next gen chatbot.

Joey Coleman (23:06):
Sometimes the customer experience is amazing! And sometimes we just want to cry… Get ready for the roller coaster ride in this edition of, I Love It! I Can’t Stand It!

Dan Gingiss (23:24):
Every once in a while. It is fun to dust off an oldie, but goodie segment that we haven’t used in a long time, for one reason or another, not intentionally, but this one, it goes all the way back to season five, episode 95. It’s been a while. It’s been a long time since we have, I love it. I can’t stand it.

Joey Coleman (23:49):
Oh, I like it. I like it.

Dan Gingiss (23:51):
So I was thinking that we, because you and I have had some similar experiences lately, I happened to be in the middle of, uh, getting new floors in my house and true fact, I tried to work through to not just one but two jackhammers going on floors today. And, uh, yeah, And I’m doing some flooring and some painting, and I know you just recently built an office in the home that you moved to. So I’m guessing that like me, you have had to deal with some contractors.

Joey Coleman (24:21):
Oh yes. And let’s say, and I say this respectfully to the various folks I worked with, I said to my wife, my goal is to be standing in my new studio for Halloween. Well, let’s just say Halloween came and went. No trick or treat mostly trick! Thanksgiving came and went. Christmas, Hanukkah, New Year’s, Valentine’s Day, St. Patrick’s day. Oh my gosh. It’s like the holiday adventure of trying to see when I’m finally going to be in my new studio.

Dan Gingiss (24:52):
Oh man. Well, I hope you are there soon. I know it’s getting close, but I thought it might be fun for us to talk about the things that we love and can’t stand about using contractors. So I’ll go first. Let’s talk about the things that we love and we’ll just kind of volley back and forth a little bit, and then we’ll get to the things we can’t stand. So I was particularly impressed with, uh, insulation company that I had to bring out because I was having a problem with two rooms in my house being a little colder than the rest of the house. And I didn’t quite know what was going on. And this guy showed up with a digital infrared thermometer that was really cool. It kind of was shaped almost like a gun. And he pointed it up at the ceiling and on the display, it showed the hot and cold spots of the room. And we could see exactly where the cold air was coming from.

Joey Coleman (25:45):
So cool!

Dan Gingiss (25:46):
It was not only was it really cool, but I immediately trusted that he was going to be able to solve my problem. I have no idea how good he is at installation. But what I liked is that he had the right tools to show me what the problem was and that to me gained trust that he knew what he was doing and that he could fix it.

Joey Coleman (26:04):
I love it. You know, speaking of trust, Dan, I love working with any organization and specifically in this context, contractors who you trust to take your idea to the next level. What do I mean by that? You know, I am not a contractor by trade. I am not a carpenter. I’m not a plumber. I am not an electrician. I don’t have any of those skills. And I will happily hire people that do have those skills. But I have a vision of what I want and what I love is when I say, so here’s what I’m trying to accomplish and then there’s an additive conversation where the contractor doesn’t just say, yeah, Joey, we can do that. They say, yeah, we do that. But we could also take it to the next level by doing this. And they give additional ideas. That to me again, to your point gives me the confidence with that I’m with the right person. And it also helps me feel from the very beginning that there’s a shared vision for what the final outcome is we’re looking for.

Dan Gingiss (27:02):
Yeah. I love it. It’s like, they’re there. They’re partnering with you in, in creating your, whatever, the thing it is that you are building. So I had another interesting experience with, uh, one of the floor people. So we had a bunch of people come and quote us on wood floors. And what most of the flooring companies do is they make you pick a color from their catalog and then they buy the wood and they put it on. But at this guy, he said, look, we’re going to put on raw lumber, we’re going to sand it down. And then we’re going to come with stains. We’re going to sit with you in your home. And we’re going to basically practice stain until we find exactly the right color that you want. We can do literally any color under the rainbow. And if we do a stain and you just, you know, you’d like it slightly darker then we’ll try again and we’ll do a little darker and we’re, I’m excited to do this process. It’s coming up in a couple of days. But the whole idea is, is that we don’t have to choose from a catalog and then kind of imagine what it’s going to be like in our house. We can actually see it in our, oh, with our windows and the lighting and all that sort of stuff and make our decision in real time to say, Oh, a little bit lighter, a little bit darker. And I kind of think that’s going to be fun. And this is me. I don’t have any of those skills that you said do, and here I am saying, I think flooring installation could be fun. So yeah…

Joey Coleman (28:23):
I did catch that when you said, I think this is going to be fun. When was that sentence last spoken by somebody who was getting new floors?

Dan Gingiss (28:33):
And I have to say, that was the differentiator for us and why we brought this guy in, because it’s the same thing as he was like, well, hold on a second. Do we want to choose from catalog or do we want to get, do we want to know that we’re going to get exactly the color we want? And he got the business because of it.

Joey Coleman (28:48):
I love it. You know, speaking of easy ways to get the business that seem easy, but interestingly enough, don’t show up a lot in the world of contractors. How about arriving on time?! Saying I’m going to be there at 9:00 AM and actually showing up at 9:00 AM. Instead of saying, I’m going to be there at 9:00 AM and showing up at 2:00 PM. There’s a big difference there. And I get that increasingly in this pandemic era, many of us are working from home. And so it’s easier to just keep working, but nothing says, Hey, guess what else I might lie about then not being able to keep a schedule.

Dan Gingiss (29:23):
Totally, totally agree. The other thing that I would say is that it’s so important to set expectations. And I really like when the contractors set the expectations, they have consistent communication. I’ve had these floor guys here now for two days, I got an email in the morning. I an email in the evening. The email in the evening had pictures of the work that they had done during the day and summarized any conversations that I had with the foreman during the day. And so it was, it was very clear around here’s what’s going to happen. Here’s what we’re going to do. And then here’s what we did. And to me again, that just gives me confidence and I feel good that I’ve got the right guys doing the job.

Joey Coleman (30:03):
I love it. Dan, we’ve talked a lot about things we love. Maybe we should shift to talking about some of the things that go happy-go-lucky.

Dan Gingiss (30:13):
okay. We’re going to try to be nice now, now folks.

Joey Coleman (30:16):
Yeah. Let’s get into it. All right. I am not a big fan of folks who don’t write things down.

Dan Gingiss (30:22):
Yeah, I know that here’s a, here’s one from the archives. This was all the way back in season one, episode nine folks, single digits – Joey told us a story about a waitress that did not write the order down in Mandarin and infuriate him.

Joey Coleman (30:37):
I’m still irked by that, to be honest, because listen, if we’re having a conversation, just write it down. I’m not going to think less of you. In fact, I will actually think more of you if I see you taking notes based on our conversation. I don’t know what the, you know, what the desire is to not take notes, but especially in a scenario where I’m going to be paying you to make something in my home, please go ahead and take some notes. I’m really okay with it.

Dan Gingiss (31:03):
Joey, I was fascinated again with the, with the floor folks and we’re having some paint done. You know, some folks came in and they measured every room and they wrote down dimensions and they really took time. And some folks came in and they chewed on the eraser of their pencil and just sort of looked around the room and, and like, did it write a thing down or maybe a, you know, a checkmark or something. And then at the end gave me a quote and it’s a quick quote, are you going to believe the guy that spent the time measuring it out and kind of, you know, did everything to a T or the guy that just put his thumb up in the air and was trying to see which way the wind blew.

Joey Coleman (31:41):
Well, yeah. And then I T to build on that briefly also, it lets me know that, you know, your job, meaning the contractor. I had a conversation with a contractor where they said, so what size door are you looking to have replace? I felt like answering human size. Like, I don’t know, no Hobbit doors please. On, on all of my buildings, I was just like, are you kidding me? I have no idea. And maybe that means I’m not as good of a homeowner is I could be. Or maybe at this point in my life, I should have figured this stuff out. But don’t ask your customers to answer questions that presume a level of intelligence, or a level of knowledge, or level of understanding of your industry or practice that you have. It’s just, it’s not fair. It doesn’t make sense. And you’re not going to be happy with the results.

Dan Gingiss (32:35):
Yeah, definitely agree with that. Uh, and I think relatedly, one of the things that I experienced, I thought it was so strange. So right now many home contractors are very, very busy because there are still people that are, I mean, lots of people are home, so they’ e doing work and it’s getting warmer. And so people are starting to do their spring projects and all that sort of thing. And so, I mean, I literally talked to one contractor that said, I would really love to help you. I’m booked for the next two years. That was a real conversation.

Joey Coleman (33:03):
Wow.

Dan Gingiss (33:04):
But some other contractors, like I had to hound them to send me the quote. They came out on Monday and you know, two Mondays later, they still haven’t sent me a quote. And it sounds like…

Joey Coleman (33:13):
I just want to give you money. I really just want to give you money. Can you tell me how much money I have to give you?

Dan Gingiss (33:18):
Exactly. There was another one where I called and they said, Oh, the owner will get back to you tomorrow. He didn’t. So I waited a couple of days. I called again, they said, Oh, the owner will get back to you tomorrow. He did it. So I waited again. I called a third time. They said the owner will get back to you tomorrow. Guess what I did.

Joey Coleman (33:35):
I don’t think you waited any longer.

Dan Gingiss (33:36):
I didn’t wait any longer. I didn’t think he lost the business. Right. And it’s like, this is not necessary. Right? I much more appreciated the guy that said, “Hey, we’re booked for two years. I wish I could help you.” I still feel okay about him. Hey, I’m happy for him. He’s got lots of business versus the guy that’s too busy to even give me a quote or call me back. That is not going to result in me giving you any further business or me recommending you.

Joey Coleman (34:00):
Yeah. It’s so much of this stuff seems so basic and so obvious. Uh, what about the idea of taking payment? I find it fascinating that most contractors are like, great. I’ll take a check or cash. Like, hi, it’s 2021. I’d love to pay you via Venmo, PayPal, or credit card, any number of other payment methods that don’t require me to use old school modalities of giving you money. And yet you would think I was asking to pay in Bitcoin, which I was not by the way, but it’s like at this point in the game, if you work in a business and you don’t have a free credit card swiper from a service like Square or PayPal, w-what is happening, I just don’t understand why you’re not ready for that. And I get that you have to pay a certain percentage for that privilege and for that benefit. But customer convenience, customer ease has a value to it as well.

Dan Gingiss (34:57):
It is. It’s a cost of doing business. And, uh, you know, for a guy that used to work at a credit card company, we would always ask merchants, you know, that didn’t want to accept credit cards or that didn’t want to accept the discover card. You know, why would you stand in the way of a customer trying to pay you? I mean, really like to me and I do this in my business, you could pay me any way you want. Other than, I don’t know, like soybeans, I probably don’t accept, but you know, however you want to pay me. I am happy to make accommodations for you to pay me that way, because the money is going from your pocket to mine and I think that, uh, that more companies should do that. Uh, the last thing that I think we can leave people with is when I can’t stand it, when contractors do not clean up after themselves, I mean, goodness gracious. Now they’re making a big mess. This is your home, not their home. And part of the job is cleaning up afterwards, right? It’s not our responsibility to clean up. And so please, just as when we take a walk in nature, you know, leave nothing but footprints and leave the place even sparklier than when you found it. So how does all of this apply to more businesses? Right? Because I’m guessing there’s not a ton of contractors listening here.

Joey Coleman (36:12):
I think we should remind people the reason we do love it can’t stand. It is not to complain about the specific instance, whether it’s rental cars or contractors or whatever we’re talking about – although it is a nice little venting exercise for Dan and I it’s to point out how many industries struggle with the same basic customer experience elements, right? It’s not just the contractors and the rental car companies and the other folks we’ve talked about on love. It can’t stand. It it’s every business that has human beings as customers.

Dan Gingiss (36:46):
Absolutely. And I’m guessing that though, there may, we only may have a small percentage of contractors that listen to the show. We have a large percentage of companies that have to quote out their business and compete against other companies or bid out their business. I think we have a large number of companies that accept payments in some form. I would hope.

Joey Coleman (37:05):
I think we have a large number of companies who your customers know less about what you do, then, you know what they’re doing for a reason they’re looking for your expertise.

Dan Gingiss (37:15):
Yeah. We talked about blind transactions a couple episodes ago with going to the dentist and other things. So yeah, oftentimes you have more knowledge than your customer. So these, you may not be putting in new floors, but you are doing a lot of the same actions that a contractor might do. And that’s why we try to present these things that we both love. And can’t stand because likely, although, you know, Joey and I are maybe a little pickier than most, likely they are representative of what customers love and can’t stand as well.

Joey Coleman (37:53):
Thanks for joining us for another episode of Experience This! You are the best listener ever!

Dan Gingiss (37:59):
And since you listened to the whole show…

Joey Coleman (38:02):
Yay you!

Dan Gingiss (38:03):
we’re curious… was there a specific part of this episode that you enjoyed the most? If so, it would mean the world to us if you could share it with a coworker, a friend, or someone that just loves listening to podcasts.

Joey Coleman (38:14):
And while you’re in the sharing mood, if you felt inclined to jump over to iTunes, or wherever you find your podcasts, and write us a review, we would so appreciate it. And when you do, don’t forget to let us know as we might have a little surprise for you.

Dan Gingiss (38:29):
Thanks again for your time. And we’ll see you next week for more

Joey Coleman (38:32):
Experience!

Dan Gingiss (38:32):
This!

Episode 127 – Secret Messages Create Special Connections

Join us as we discuss a secret message for an interstellar audience, making products that consumers actually want, and warning customers about bad things before they even realize it.

Code Breaking, Custom Creating, and Fraud Alerting – Oh My!

Referenced in the Show

• “NASA Sent a Secret Message to Mars. Meet the People Who Decoded It.” – by Kenneth Chang in the New York Times

• Pinduoduo’s Consumer-To-Manufacturer (C2M) Offerings

• American Express

Host Contact Information

Email Dan: Dan@dangingiss.com

Tweet Dan Gingiss: @DGingiss

Email Joey: JoeyC@JoeyColeman.com

DanGingiss.com

JoeyColeman.com

Subscribe to Experience This on Apple Podcasts

Learn more about our Season 7 Partner – Solvvy – The NextGen Chatbot

Episode Transcript

Download an unedited transcript of Episode 127 here or read it below:

Joey Coleman (00:05):
Welcome to Experience This!

Dan Gingiss (00:07):
The podcast that celebrates remarkable customer experiences and inspires you to stand out from the competition by wowing your customers.

Joey Coleman (00:17):
Each episode, we bring you a healthy dose of inspiring stories, funny interactions, and practical takeaways. Marketing and customer experience thought leader, Dan Gingiss…

Dan Gingiss (00:30):
shares the mic with customer retention and employee experience expert, Joey Coleman, helping you to get people talking about your business.

Joey Coleman (00:40):
So get ready because it’s time to Experience This!

Joey Coleman (00:49):
Get ready, for another episode of the Experience This! Show!

Dan Gingiss (00:54):
Join us as we discuss: a secret message for an interstellar audience, making products that consumers actually want, and warning customers about bad things before they even realize it.

Joey Coleman (01:09):
Code Breaking, Custom Creating, and Fraud Alerting – Oh my!

Joey Coleman (01:18):
There are so many great customer experience articles to read, but who has the time?! We summarize them and offer clear takeaways you can implement starting tomorrow. Enjoy this segment of CX Press, where we read the articles, so you don’t need to!

Joey Coleman (01:36):
Happy belated Easter, everyone.

Dan Gingiss (01:38):
And may none of you run into me in the store getting half off chocolate eggs.

Joey Coleman (01:46):
I love it. I did not know you had a chocolate egg addiction. That’s something new learned here in season seven of the Experience This Show!

Dan Gingiss (01:53):
Well, you know, I try to make sure that I don’t tell you everything about me, Joey – so you’re always learning.

Joey Coleman (01:59):
I like it. I like it. Well, given that it is the Easter season, I thought we could talk in today’s segment about Easter eggs.

Dan Gingiss (02:08):
Well, I think we might be hard pressed or hard-boiled pressed to do a whole segment on Easter eggs.

Joey Coleman (02:15):
Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness. Well, I agree, Dan, if we were talking about hard boiling eggs and dieing them different colors, yes. But what I’m talking about is the concept of Easter eggs that comes from video games and in that context, an Easter egg is a phrase that’s used to describe a message or an image or a feature that’s hidden in a video game of film or other usually electronic medium. Now, interestingly enough, this term was first used way back in 1979 by Steven Wright, who was then the director of software development in the Atari Consumer Division, to describe a hidden message in an Atari video game. But this concept of an Easter egg recently made international headlines again, based on something happened on Mars.

Dan Gingiss (03:01):
Wait, so now we’re talking about Easter eggs and Martians?!

Joey Coleman (03:04):
Exactly! Today’s CX Press story comes to us from an article by Kenneth Chang in the New York Times, titled “NASA Sent a Secret Message to Mars. Meet the People Who Decoded It.” Now a few weeks ago, NASA’s Perseverance Rover fell through the Martian atmosphere and while it was descending, a video camera on the spacecraft captured the deployment of the rover’s parachute. The parachute was decorated with splotches of a reddish orange and white. And during the subsequent news conference, Alan Chen, the engineer in charge of the landing system noted that his team hoped to inspire others. And I quote, “[S]ometimes we leave messages in our work for others defined for that purpose. So we invite you all to give it a shot and show your work.” Now this sparked Codebreakers around the world to take a closer look at the seemingly random pattern of perseverance is parachute trading insights on Twitter and informs on Reddit. A number of people eventually figured out the message.

Dan Gingiss (04:07):
What, what did it say?

Joey Coleman (04:08):
Well before I share what it said, Dan, I think it’s important to share how all of this came to be. Dr. Ian Clark works for NASA and was in charge of developing the Perseverance parachute.

Dan Gingiss (04:21):
Say that 10 times fast!

Joey Coleman (04:23):
Right? I’m pretty proud that I’ve said it twice in this segment without stumbling. Well, anyways, it turns out NASA is previous Rover called Curiosity used a similar parachute system when it landed on Mars back in 2012, but a failure of a prototype parachute for future missions left the engineers wanting to improve on the design. And while watching video of testing of one of the new parachutes for perseverance, Dr. Clark noticed that the checkerboard pattern of the canopy made it difficult to track how individual portions of the parachute, unfurled and inflated and he realized that a more visually distinct pattern would help them assess things more accurately while providing an opportunity to quote, “have a little fun with it.” So he asked the deputy project manager for the mission for permission to be creative and have some fun. And thankfully his manager said, “okay, just make sure it’s appropriate and couldn’t be misinterpreted.”

Dan Gingiss (05:23):
Okay, obviously guys, Joey’s going to hold out on this. What did it say question for a little bit longer, but I do think that what I’m supposed to jump in and say here is man, wouldn’t it be great if we all worked at companies where we were allowed to be creative and have some fun, because that brings out the passion in people that brings out a better work atmosphere. We love talking about how employee experience can affect the customer experience. And so I already liked this story because they’re like working on some really like serious, expensive stuff here. And yet they’re allowed to have fun and be creative.

Joey Coleman (05:58):
Dan, I couldn’t agree more. It’s that balance between doing important work, but having a good time while you’re doing it well, as it turns out, I want to reveal here what it actually said. The code on the parachute was binary. Now this is something that’s very familiar to. Computer engineers, it’s zeros and ones. There were 320 pieces of fabric with each orange section of the parachute referenced a number one and each white section referencing the number zero. And when the code was translated, it left an inspiring message on the inner rings of the parachute: Dare Mighty Things.

Dan Gingiss (06:34):
Dare Mighty things. I have to tell you if I were going to guess that I wouldn’t have guessed it, but it is pretty awesome.

Joey Coleman (06:44):
It’s pretty cool. When you think about it. And interestingly enough, there’s a little more background to this message. Dare Mighty Things” is a credo that’s often used at NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory in California and it comes from a speech that Teddy Roosevelt gave years ago. And I quote, “[F]ar better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.”

Dan Gingiss (07:18):
Well, may we never have to take rank with poor spirits again is what I say.

Joey Coleman (07:24):
Not to mention, this is a presidential speech. Are you moved?! We just, we don’t have presidential rhetoric like that, but I digress.

Dan Gingiss (07:30):
No, that’s true. That’s definitely true. So I’m wondering how long did this actually take for people to decipher the parachute code?

Joey Coleman (07:40):
Well, it actually only took about two hours, which to me seemed pretty fast. You know, I know about another hidden code. That’s on a sculpture inside CIA headquarters at Langley, Virginia, that code breakers have been working on since 1990, when the sculpture was revealed and they’ve only decoded three of the four parts over the last 30 years. But what’s interesting is the parachute code wasn’t the only hidden element in the Perseverance Rover.

Dan Gingiss (08:11):
Ah ha! No it wasn’t. And I particularly enjoyed the series of drawings that represented the five rovers. NASA has sent to Mars from the small soldier in 1997 to perseverance. Now it looks like one of those family car stickers you may have seen with the stick figures of parents and kids and maybe a pet on it. The Mars Rover version has stick figures of the various rovers in a kind of family car sticker design. There are also three small chips with the names of 10.9 million people stencilled on them. Part of NASA efforts for the public to participate in its robotic missions. Interestingly enough, the project manager we mentioned earlier, Matt Wallace, who gave the okay to do something fun with the parachute? He recently shared that there are more Surprises to come saying, quote, there’s some things on the front of the vehicle that we’ll have a chance to see once we deploy the robot arm. So who knows how many more surprises we’re in for?!

Joey Coleman (09:09):
I love every piece of this story. Dan. I love the playfulness. I love the creativity. I love the hidden messages. And the reason I wanted to talk about this on the show today is because so many businesses miss the opportunity to embed Easter eggs in the interactions that they have with their customers, whether you’re a product based business or a service-based business, this idea of putting little hidden messages that your customers can come across is something that I think a lot more businesses need to be paying attention to.

Dan Gingiss (09:42):
Yeah, I agree. And this doesn’t have to be very hard. We’ve talked before on the show about messages that appear on shipping boxes and sometimes they’re like underneath the flap. So you only see them when you go to take it apart to recycle it. And that doesn’t cost anything because you’re printing something on the box anyway. And so as long as you’re printing on the same side, it’s not going to cost you any more to add some, some type on there. I think there’s also places I remember a ways back and I’m sorry that my rain man abilities must be failing me. But, uh, we talked about the insurance company that, uh, that had the $10,000 reward buried in the, in the

Joey Coleman (10:23):
Terms and Conditions?

Dan Gingiss (10:26):
I mean, obviously that got them a lot of press and it was such a cool story. So I think there are plenty of places that we can do this. Wait a minute, wait a minute. It’s coming to me.

Joey Coleman (10:39):
It’s coming to you isn’t it? I’m going to guess on this one Dan, was it Season One?

Dan Gingiss (10:43):
No, that’s where I started to look too. But it’s not.

Joey Coleman (10:47):
I think it was season one, maybe not, but it was in a, it was in a “Say Anything” wasn’t it?

Dan Gingiss (10:52):
It was a, I think you should just stop guessing it was a…

Joey Coleman (10:58):
Normally I don’t play the game.

Dan Gingiss (11:00):
We don’t have a segment called “Say Anything” – that’s that’s a 1980s movie. Um, we have a segment called “Say What,” but it wasn’t that either, uh, it was in episode 73, season four, Required Remarkable, woman wins $10,000 for reading the fine print anyway, uh, enough of that shenanigans. Uh, but yeah, this is, look, there’s no law that says that your company has to be boring. It’s not written anywhere. It’s not in your credo or your value or mission statement. The lawyers don’t say that you have to be boring, and yet so many companies decide to be boring. And that’s why when I talk about, you know, my favorite word is witty in talking about how to create remarkable experiences, because witty to me, it’s not about telling jokes or being funny because humor can be dangerous. It’s just about thinking about how we use language and trying to come up with a more clever, fun, personable human way of saying something, or in this case of maybe hiding a little wink, wink that not everybody’s going to get, but man, when they get it, they’re just going to love you because they’re going to feel like they’re part of a special club.

Joey Coleman (12:07):
Absolutely. So friends, how can you apply the same level of playfulness and creativity? And one might even go so bold as to say Curiosity that the NASA team did? Well first and foremost, let your loyal fans interact with your products and services, not just use them, explore ways for them to have a relationship with your products and services that goes beyond just the typical use case, create some unscheduled or found moments of surprise and delight. I think a lot of brands think about, Oh, what are going to be our surprise and delight moments. But with Easter eggs, you can kind of bury those surprise and delight moments and your customer will find them on their own schedule and it will feel more authentic that way. It will feel more random that way. It will feel more unique that way. And last but not least, let’s just have some fun. I mean, it’s not rocket science!

Dan Gingiss (13:02):
I see what you did there Joey!

Joey Coleman (13:06):
With a pandemic sweeping the globe and shifting the way organizations interact with their customers, many of the old ways of operating just don’t work anymore. As we all navigate a COVID-19 world, it’s time to Redesign the Experience.

Joey Coleman (13:27):
Hey, Dan, let’s play a game I like to call “Name that Acronym!”

Dan Gingiss (13:33):
It’s “Name that Acronym” folks!

Joey Coleman (13:36):
Yes. Well, in the last segment we talked about NASA and so I was thinking…

Dan Gingiss (13:40):
National Aeronautics and Space Administration?

Joey Coleman (13:43):
Oh, very good. You’re ready already. I like it. I like it. Well now let’s see what other acronyms we know. And let’s maybe go with some acronyms that are a little more business oriented. All right, Dan, are you ready?

Dan Gingiss (13:56):
I am ready.

Joey Coleman (13:59):
All right. B2B?

Dan Gingiss (14:01):
Business to business.

Joey Coleman (14:03):
B2C?

Dan Gingiss (14:04):
Business to consumer.

Joey Coleman (14:05):
C2M?

Dan Gingiss (14:08):
Consumer to Marshmallow?

Joey Coleman (14:11):
I like the creativity of that, but that’s not exactly what I was going for to be honest. And this was a new one for me until very recently. It stands for consumer to manufacturer and this is a newly emerging approach to production. That’s getting a lot of attention in China, especially as we kind of navigate through the pandemic. Now there are several versions of C to M, but in essence, C to M is pairing big data. That’s gathered by a tech platform with artificial intelligence in order to identify the latest consumer shopping trends. And then with this insight manufacturers make products directly for consumers, cutting out all of the intermediaries with more direct insights about customer demand. There’s less need to create excess inventory buffers, which improves margins and reduces waste.

Dan Gingiss (15:06):
Now I’m all for getting rid of them middle man, cause they rarely add a whole lot of value. But what you’re saying here sounds like we’re listening to customers and developing products based on their use cases or what they’re saying or doing. I mean, can you give me an example of maybe a Chinese C to M business?

Joey Coleman (15:26):
I can and what I would say Dan is, yes we are. But what’s unique about C2M is these tech platforms are taking it to the next level. It’s not about the brand listening to what their customers are saying. And then creating new products, it’s giant social media platforms or e-commerce platforms tracking search behaviors and buying behaviors, extrapolating that data. And then using AI to partner with manufacturing firms to go straight to production. So you might’ve heard of the Chinese company Alibaba before.

Dan Gingiss (16:02):
Of course China’s biggest e-commerce platform.

Joey Coleman (16:06):
Exactly. So Alibaba clearly has all of the big data they need. They also have a thriving SITA em business unit. Now earlier in the pandemic, the CTM team at Alibaba noticed a sharp rise in demand for alcohol based car, cleaning supplies, things people want to use in order to stop the spread of COVID infections. Now Alibaba approached Otis, which is a company that makes car cleaning products who ironically enough at the time was really struggling with their sales. And Alibaba suggested that Otis create a line of portable sanitizing sprays instead of car cleaning products. They had all the ability to put, you know, to kind of create the, the spray bottles. If you will. They had all the ability to create the solvents that would go inside those, but they kind of suggested that based on what they were seeing in the marketplace, they should create something that was a portable sanitizing spray. So the team had Otis takes this data. It takes this suggestion and within three days rolls out a new product. Now, normally it takes them over three months to create a new product. What’s interesting is because Alibaba does so much e-commerce they had partnered customers were able to pre-order this spray before they even started manufacturing. So think of it as like Kickstarter, but without the Kickstarter platform and more than 200,000 bottles of portable sanitizing spray were sold in the first 24 hours,

Dan Gingiss (17:40):
That’s it huh? Just 200,000?

Joey Coleman (17:41):
That’s it! Just a brand new product launch with over 200,000 items sold in the first day, a brand new product that this company had never made before. Do you think that made the folks at Otis had a little bit happy? I imagine it did!

Dan Gingiss (17:54):
Especially with those struggling sales that were no longer. I mean, this is interesting. I would say I’m reminded of the fact that in the early months of the pandemic, there were many companies that started making things that they weren’t normally making because they had the supplies to do that. We talked here about some alcohol companies making hand sanitizer. We know that some car companies were making respirators and all that sort of thing. So let’s talk a little bit more about how this is similar or different.

Joey Coleman (18:24):
Well, I think you’re spot on we’ve we’ve seen other companies do that, but like let’s take example of the alcohol company that made hand sanitizer. They had to go out into the marketplace. First of all, they had to figure out how to do that. They had to create new bottles, new packaging, retool their systems internally, retrain their workers internally to create this. And then they had to go to their alcohol customers and say, Hey, I know you’re used to buying alcohol from us, but maybe you might like to buy hand sanitizer from us. It was a little bit of a leap. If not, a pretty significant leap…

Dan Gingiss (19:00):
Not as tasty for sure.

Joey Coleman (19:01):
Not as tasty a leap. And again, their marketplace that they were selling to was their existing customer base. Now counterbalance that against what Alibaba is doing. They already have everybody on the platform shopping they’re used to coming shopping. And so imagine taking an analogy here instead of the distillery selling sanitizer at their closed down, you know, custom craft brew shop or distillery locations instead, imagine walking into the mall and seeing this you’re expecting to see different types of products. So the reality is the more options that consumers have for where to shop and the more information they have at their fingertips about what to buy, the more these manufacturers are going to need to adapt to the products they’re creating.

Dan Gingiss (19:48):
Well, another example of how deeper connection with customers can lead to new products can be seen in the actions of the global spirits company Bacardi during the pandemic lockdowns Bacardi has hosted live streamed whiskey tastings on Amazon, introduced espresso martini cocktail kits for at-home mixologists, and gain the attention of single malt whiskey influencers with an Aberfeldy scotch dubbed, wait for it. The Loch Down, “loch” L-O-C-H.

Joey Coleman (20:18):
L-O-C-H as in the Scottish lake. I like it. I like it. The Loch Down. My son’s name is Lochlan – I need to put him on lockdown more often. I like this. What I love about these stories in these examples is we’re seeing a lot of companies around the world start to experiment with this, but in China, this is something that’s been going strong for a few years now. Now granted, the marketplace is different. E-commerce is different of the influence is different, but I saw a story about a company in China called Pinduoduo.

Dan Gingiss (20:53):
Time out! Now I’m going to have to interrupt you there. Best company name in the history of Experience This: Pinduoduo?

Joey Coleman (21:02):
Pinduoduo. It’s a pretty good name, right? It’s pretty fun. It’s pretty fun. Pinduoduo. I think I’m saying, hopefully I’m saying that right. The transliteration may not be spot on, but what pin duo duo did is they recognized that high-end robot vacuum cleaners kind of think like a Roomba or something like that, were selling in China for about 3000 Yuan. That’s about $500 us, which made them affordable to many of China’s richest citizens, but out of budget for a lot of their consumers. So they took this data, proving that there was a strong demand and then directly worked with the manufacturer to produce a much cheaper version. And then they shared their after sales data in order to help the manufacturer improve the product. Now, again, what I think is fascinating about this is these are the platforms taking a lead on this behavior. This is not the existing brands, the existing companies. These are the platforms, figuring out a way to use all of this data and all this insight they have by combining the data with AI, to then turn around and develop direct relationships to the manufacturers that they can then loop back around and have a direct relationship back to the consumer.

Dan Gingiss (22:22):
So you’re kind of saying, this is like if Facebook decided to sell staplers?

Joey Coleman (22:27):
Exactly. If they realized that everybody was posting about staplers and everybody was talking about staplers. I mean, it’s a variation on a theme on what Amazon does with Amazon Basics, where Amazon looks and sees which products are selling the best. But this is actually doing a little more of a sophisticated kind of sentiment analysis for some social media platforms and things like that, where they’re actually tracking the trends and the interest level. And then pairing that in. And what I also like, which Pinduoduo is doing is this loop that comes back in after the sale. Because right now a company that let’s say manufacturers, a product they’ve got to have the, as you talk about all the time, Dan, their customer experience listening going on, and they’re kind of listening to voice of the customer and they’re doing surveys, and they’re trying to see what’s being said about their brand on social, but this to me is an entirely different level of the platform providing that data back to the manufacturer. It just seems like a really fast moving change of how it’s going. And while this is certainly popular in China, we haven’t seen it as much in Europe and in the United States yet, but I think it’s just a matter of time.

Dan Gingiss (23:38):
Well, and it is always great to look at other countries to see what’s hot and what’s going on because trends often cross the globe. And we’ve talked about that before with VR (virtual reality) and how I had seen some of it in Japan years ago before I ever saw it in the United States. So I think it’s worthy to look at this and I do think it’s very interesting that almost any company, essentially, if it has an audience and data can work with a manufacturer to become a product creator. And I think that’s the takeaway is that no matter what business you’re in, it doesn’t mean that you have to expand only to ancillary businesses that are related to what you do today, that there might be something out there that using the data that you have, you can come up with something that is not so expected from your company.

Joey Coleman (24:33):
Dan, I totally agree. I think the reality is if we fast forward out, certainly 10 years, maybe five years, every product business should also have a service component to it. And every service business should also have a product component to it. And where I see this convergence with big data, I was listening to a presentation the other day from Peter Diamandis who is the author of the book, Abundance and the book, Bold. He’s also the founder of the X prize. And Peter said there are going to be two types of businesses at the end of this decade, businesses that are AI powered and businesses that are bankrupt. And so I think at the end of the day, the reason we wanted to share this segment is how are you thinking about incorporating AI into your business today? Because I promise you, your competitors are already thinking about this and many of them are already starting to do it.

Joey Coleman (25:33):
Almost everyone has interacted with chatbots, but all too often, it’s been a bad experience. In MythBusters, presented by Solvvy, we explore a common myth about CX chatbots and see how the right technology can create a positive experience, every time.

Joey Coleman (25:57):
It’s myth about chatbots, chatbots have bad analytics and lack insights. You probably think of chatbots as a customer communication tool and rightfully so, and as customer obsessed leaders know there is gold to be mined from customer interactions. Unfortunately, when it comes to capturing analytics and servicing actionable customer insights, most legacy chatbots fall woefully short.

Dan Gingiss (26:25):
Interestingly enough, the past is not the future. The best next gen chatbots include analytics and provide valuable insights into your customers and your support operations. For example, an X gen chat bot includes dashboards that do a lot of the heavy lifting for your team in seconds can see the types and frequency of questions that are being asked by customers and how the volumes are trending over time. You can also see how often your chat bot is successful in resolving different types of questions.

Joey Coleman (26:54):
Now, how does this help? Well, as a support leader the chat bot actually helps you identify customer pain points and prioritize the most impactful customer issues. First, furthermore, next gen chatbots, make it simple to drill down into specific conversations, to get more details about why an issue is occurring. This helps you better determine how to address the issue, whether that’s making changes to your help content or working with product and design teams to make fundamental improvements in your offerings.

Dan Gingiss (27:26):
Like using data and feedback to make improvements to a new lower end robot vacuum cleaner in China?

Joey Coleman (27:31):
Exactly. And that’s another Myth Busted, thanks to our friends and podcast supporters at Solvvy – the Next Gen Chatbot.

Joey Coleman (27:40):
We love telling stories and sharing key insights you can implement, or avoid, based on our experiences. Can you believe that This Just Happened?

Joey Coleman (27:56):
I got an interesting little text message the other day, Dan, that I wanted to tell you about… I’m on a call and a text message comes across my phone that says the following: “AMEX Fraud Alert. Did you just attempt a $15 and 23 cent charge on your card? Ending two, three, one, one, one at tropical smoothie cafe reply one, if yes, two to call Amex.” Now this was a little surprising to me. So I finished the call and I checked in with my amazing wife. And the reason I checked in with my wife is because ironically enough, tropical smoothie cafe is a place that we like to order from, from time to time. And I thought that maybe my credit card had been saved on her account or something. And she had placed an order while I was on the phone.

Dan Gingiss (28:42):
And then I assume the next question would be, why didn’t you bring me one?

Joey Coleman (28:46):
But I did look at the amount and I was like, “Oh, this might mean she ordered one for me too.” But we also have two boys and I’m looking at it going, there’s no way we got four smoothies for $15. So this is not seeming to be the right setup. Long story short, she had not placed the order. So what did I do? I texted to back to the thread, I then got a reply that said, please call 1-800, it gave me a long number or the number on the back of your card. Now, as I mentioned, Dan, I was kind of going about my work day when this happened. And while I was concerned about this potential fraud, I was kind of in the middle of juggling, a lot of other things. And so as I was trying to kind of piece a few things together and kind of wrap up a couple other things, so I could make this call, my phone rang and it was the number that I have saved in my phone from Amex. So when I didn’t call within like 15 minutes of texting, they called me. Long story short. We have a long conversation. They say, is there any chance you used your card in Dallas, Texas this morning? I said, no, I did not travel to Dallas just to get Tropical Smoothie, although don’t get me wrong. I would go a long distance to get a Bahama Mama, Tropical Smoothie, moral of the story I did not. And they said, I’m guessing you might not have made these other charges. And lo and behold, someone had put my card information onto a card and they were going all around in Dallas, wiping it, trying to make lots of purchases.

Dan Gingiss (30:14):
You know, I hate when that happens, and coming from the credit card industry, it is a fascinating business, this fraud business, because it is very difficult to siphon out. The fraudsters are not always obvious in their actions. I remember for example, when I was down in Columbia, I was able to run my card at a Colombian coffee shop. But as soon as I spent $20 on some cufflinks at a jewelry store that got declined because basically the combination of jewelry store plus Columbia sent it.

Joey Coleman (30:51):
They were not liking it.

Dan Gingiss (30:53):
No – they didn’t like that. And, uh, but it’s really interesting because that happened to be a false positive or false negative. I don’t know whatever, but it wasn’t,

Joey Coleman (31:00):
You just wanted the cufflinks!

Dan Gingiss (31:04):
But you know, this reminds me also, I had a similar situation recently with another credit card company where I got a fraud alert and it turns out that somebody had set up an account at FedEx in Memphis and was shipping lots of packages using my card. And this was.

Joey Coleman (31:24):
Sorry about that Dan!

Dan Gingiss (31:26):
So this was pretty ingenious because since they had set up the account, it was basically like a recurring payment. And so the credit card company did what they should have, which is they shut down the card and they issued me another card. But a week later I got another fraud alert from FedEx in Memphis. And I’m like, wait a second. But you just changed my number.

Joey Coleman (31:47):
You already disabled this!

Dan Gingiss (31:47):
Yeah, and I just updated like 79 websites with my new number and all that sort of stuff. And so I called a guy and this is where you’re working at a credit card company has some advantages because I said, you know, I think what’s going on here is this is a recurring payment, which means, uh, one of the things that credit card companies have done to help consumers is that if you have fraud on your card and you need a new number, they’ll call, you know, they’ll tell your, your cable company, And your utilities and all that so that you don’t have to go change the number, they do that for you. Well, the problem is when somebody is fraudulent lately signing up for a recurring payment, then they also tell that person…

Joey Coleman (32:29):
FedEx, Hey, guess what? Don’t worry about it. Let the charges roll.

Dan Gingiss (32:32):
Exactly. So I got a third card and that card then had fraud on it. So when I went to the fourth card in less than a month, and I said, look, I’m kind of done with this. I said to them, I know what’s wrong. Please shut off the recurring payment and then issue me a new card. And they did. And it worked now the moral of the story there is you shouldn’t have to work at a credit card company to be able to explain to the credit card company what they need to do to stop this. Uh, but I think where you were going was this texting alert thing is pretty cool. It’s in real time, it’s a great way to very quickly, either verify or deny a charge. I’ve had it happen where I’ve been in a store it’s been declined. And the second after the cashier says, your card is declined. I get the text, I hit. Yes. And then the card goes through and I always feel good about that because it means the credit card company is looking out for me versus feeling embarrassed that my card got declined, but I don’t know maybe others don’t.

Joey Coleman (33:32):
No, I think you’re spot on Dan. And that’s the main reason I wanted to talk about this is the power that comes from anticipating customer headaches. To your point about the FedEx story. No customer has to, wants to, have to call back again and again and again, when something is going wrong, right? Fraud on your credit card is not the usual thing you like to see. It’s a problem. And you start to get worked up about it. You want to solve the problem. They want to solve the problem, et cetera. But what I love about what American Express did here is they anticipated the problem and made me feel like they were doing me a favor by checking in. The reality is in most jurisdictions, there are very specific laws about how much liability you can get when a credit card is fraudulently used. And in most places, it’s usually about $50. You probably know the specific numbers in the specific jurisdictions, but on average, it’s about $50. So the reality is checking in on these fraud charges helps the credit card company more than it helps me. Because my liability is capped at $50. They have to pay all the rest. If these charges get run up in a significant way multiple times, but this idea of making it feel like they’re looking out for me or anticipating my problem makes me feel like they’re doing me a favor when the reality is, they’re kind of doing themselves a favor. So what can we learn from this story? I think where possible we want to be looking at what are the potential headaches that a customer has from using our product naturally? It’s natural that I would go to tropical smoothie and swipe my credit card and use it. So what are the consequences of that potentially while someone might get my credit card and use it fraudulently, what can they do anticipate the problem that I’m going to have and jump ahead to solve it. So how much of your time, fellow listeners of the Experience This Show, are you spending anticipating the problems that your customers might have in order to deliver a remarkable experience and remove that problem before they’re even aware of it?

Joey Coleman (35:43):
Thanks for joining us for another episode of Experience This! You are the best listener ever!

Dan Gingiss (35:54):
And since you listened to the whole show,

Joey Coleman (35:56):
Yay you!

Dan Gingiss (35:57):
We’re curious – was there a specific part of this episode that you enjoyed the most? If so, it would mean the world to us if you could share it with a coworker, a friend, or someone that just loves listening to podcasts.

Joey Coleman (36:08):
And while you’re in the sharing mood, if you felt inclined to jump over to iTunes, or wherever you find your podcasts and write us a review, we would so appreciate it. And when you do, don’t forget to let us know as we might have a little surprise for you.

Dan Gingiss (36:23):
Thanks again for your time and we’ll see you next week for more

Joey Coleman (36:26):
Experience!

Dan Gingiss (36:28):
This!

Episode 125 – An Experience to Remember

Join us as we discuss getting people to come to court, when the custom clothing experience just doesn’t measure up, and a remarkable birthday celebration at a car dealership.

Summons, Suits, and Surprises – Oh My!

Referenced in the Show

• “Behavioral Nudges Reduce Failure to Appear for Court” – by Alissa Fishbane, Aurelie Ouss, and Anuj K. Shah in Science magazine

image courtesy of Shimkat Motors
image courtesy of K.C. Coleman
image courtesy of K.C. Coleman

• Shimkat Motors – Fort Dodge, Iowa

Host Contact Information

Email Dan: Dan@dangingiss.com

Tweet Dan Gingiss: @DGingiss

Email Joey: JoeyC@JoeyColeman.com

DanGingiss.com

JoeyColeman.com

Subscribe to Experience This on Apple Podcasts

Learn more about our Season 7 Partner – Solvvy – The NextGen Chatbot

Episode Transcript

Download an unedited transcript of Episode 125 here or read it below:

Joey Coleman (00:05):
Welcome to Experience This!

Dan Gingiss (00:08):
The podcast that celebrates remarkable customer experiences and inspires you to stand out from the competition by wowing your customers.

Joey Coleman (00:17):
Each episode, we bring you a healthy dose of inspiring stories, funny interactions, and practical takeaways. Marketing and customer experience thought leader, Dan Gingiss…

Dan Gingiss (00:30):
shares the mic with customer retention and employee experience expert, Joey Coleman, helping you to get people talking about your business.

Joey Coleman (00:40):
So get ready because it’s time to Experience This!

Joey Coleman (00:49):
Get ready for another episode of the Experience This! Show!

Dan Gingiss (00:53):
Join us as we discuss: getting people to come to court, when the custom clothing experience just doesn’t measure up, and a remarkable birthday celebration at a car dealership.

Joey Coleman (01:07):
Summons, Suits, and Surprises – Oh my!

Joey Coleman (01:15):
There are so many great customer experience articles to read, but who has the time we summarize them and offer clear takeaways you can implement starting tomorrow, enjoy this segment of CX press, where we read the articles. So you don’t need to,

Joey Coleman (01:33):
Have you ever been summoned to go to court, Dan?

Dan Gingiss (01:37):
Wow! What a way to start off a conversation.

Joey Coleman (01:41):
I’m leading into the episode strong.

Dan Gingiss (01:43):
Yeah. And I’m not so sure I should answer that question. Do I need a lawyer?

Joey Coleman (01:47):
Well, fair enough. Fair enough. But as most of our listeners know earlier in my career, I was a criminal defense lawyer, which is why I was very intrigued when I came across an article in Science magazine that will serve as our CX press article in this episode. The article was titled “Behavioral Nudges Reduce Failure to Appear for Court,” and the introduction explained the situation quite well so I quote, “[e]ach year, millions of people in the United States are required to appear in court for low-level offenses. Many defendants miss their court dates. Criminal justice policy often uses punitive sanctions to deter these failures to appear. For example, when defendants fail to appear, arrest warrants are issued, which draws defendants further into the criminal justice system. These policies presumed that defendants pay attention to those penalties and weigh them. When deciding whether to appear in court. In this study, we explore a different possibility for why defendants might miss court: simple human error. Although defendants are given all of the relevant information they need, they might be insufficiently aware of the information, it not be salient enough, or the defendants might forget it.”

Dan Gingiss (03:03):
In other words, they might be human?

Joey Coleman (03:06):
Exactly! A misnomer in the criminal justice system, I think for a lot of folks outside of the criminal justice system, who kind of presume that if you’re supposed to be in court, you must have some level of guilt, which of course is not at all the way it works – at least here in the United States. What I thought was interesting about this article, Dan is it described two large scale field studies conducted in New York city. And these studies explored ways to make defendants more aware of their court information. Now in the first study, the team redesigned the summons form that defendants receive for low level offenses to start with the old summons was labeled “Complaint Information. The People of the State of New York versus.” The new summons is labeled “Criminal Court Appearance Ticket.”

Dan Gingiss (03:54):
Yeah, that’s a little clearer!

Joey Coleman (03:56):
A little clear, a little less legalese. It’s pretty obvious what we’re dealing with here.

Dan Gingiss (04:03):
It’s just a little bit shy of get your “beep” to court.

Joey Coleman (04:07):
Let’s just say it’s right on the edge there. It’s pretty straightforward. The old summons had the court information far down the page and listed the date of the required appearance, and the location of the required appearance, in two different places on the complaint. The new summons moves the court date, the time and the court location to the top of the page, right underneath the defendant’s name – so it’s literally the first thing they see on the page after seeing their own name. And finally the old summons made passing reference to the consequences of failing, to appear for the court date, whereas the new and improved summons clearly States in bold typeface on the front of the form that missing the assigned court date will lead to a warrant being issued for your arrest.

Dan Gingiss (04:52):
You know, I can’t help, but think about the discussions we’ve had on this show about user experience, which of course is generally considered a digital term because it talks about the ability to navigate a website for example, or find what you’re looking for. But user experience can be everywhere. It can be in physical products and certainly it can be in a court summons. And I think that’s what they’ve done here is they’ve basically taken the most pertinent information and put it up front and made it clearer. They’ve boldfaced things that they want you to pay attention to. And they’ve used language that is simpler to understand, and those are all user experience things. So I’m going to go out on a limb and guess that this study resulted in more people showing up to their court appearances.

Joey Coleman (05:39):
Well, Dan, you may not have spent a lot of time in the criminal justice system. Good on you. Good law abiding citizen! But your instincts about the human condition are spot on. And they were proved out once again, in the criminal court system in New York, the result of using the new summons was pretty impressive as failure to appear. Rates went from 47% down to 40%. Now this 7% reduction avoided 23,000 warrants from being issued.

Dan Gingiss (06:13):
Wow. And if this were a business, you would start to calculate what’s the cost of issuing 23,000 warrants, and sending them out, and having the police follow up on them, and scheduling a new court date, and everybody’s time and all that sort of stuff. It must be substantial in terms of what the city was able to save from eliminating that many warrants, not to mention that people don’t really like it when they have a warrant out for their arrest. And if all you had to do is show up for, um, uh, what seems like a minor offense, it seems like it also provided a better experience if you will.

Joey Coleman (06:49):
Well, it provides a better experience. I think for everyone, for a couple of reasons, number one, this is keep in mind friends. This is a low level offense, these aren’t major crimes. Okay. So the fact of the matter is we don’t need to escalate to a warrant being issued for someone’s arrest. And in fact, we’ll talk about this later in the segment, but lots of times people miss their court date for really common reasons, but there’s this presumption that it’s nefarious because it’s criminal. So not only have we created a scenario where when they do come to court, everyone’s presuming that they must be bad because they didn’t come when they were supposed to. And we had to issue a warrant for their arrest, but imagine what it feels like to be the defendant and to be showing up in court in response to a warrant for your arrest and having a summons. And now you have two issues to deal with the original issue that the complaint was for, and on top of it, a warrant for your arrest for failure to comply with the complaint. So it gets pretty messy, pretty fast. But as if the results of this first study, weren’t impressive enough in a second companion study, the design team, augmented the form by sending text messages to highlight critical information in the week, leading up to the scheduled court appearance. So anyone who is willing to provide their cell phone number would receive a text message a few days before reminding them of the date and the time and the location of their appearance. And then another one the day before and defendants who didn’t receive text messages, fail to appear about 37.9% of the time in the study with text messages, those numbers dropped to 29% resulting in over 7,800 warrants being avoided on top of the ones that were already avoided by failure to appear because they didn’t know where there was supposed to go. So between the two impacts, we see double digit reduction in the number of warrants being issued and the number of people who are actually showing up as they were supposed to.

Dan Gingiss (08:53):
Well, it let’s back up a second here because you kind of glossed over something that I thought was pretty interesting in the studies. The city hired a design firm to design these letters, right? And that seems like a small thing. And yet look at what happened by focusing on, again, the user experience, all of the clarity of the letter or of the, of the text messages, but you wouldn’t necessarily think that a design firm would be needed for something like this. And I want to have, I want to challenge our listeners to think about places in your business, where maybe you do need a new set of eyes and you need somebody with some communication skills or different communication skills to come in and redesign. I don’t know, a welcome letter, an offer letter, a contract, something that may be causing confusion in your business, that, with simpler language highlighting the right things may eliminate that confusion.

Joey Coleman (09:52):
I couldn’t agree more Dan in your you’re absolutely right to be candid. I’m not exactly sure whether it was that they hired the design firm or the design firm was working with the scientists who were conducting the study, so I’m not exactly sure there, but what we do know is there were design elements that were enhanced in the printed summons form and improved on. And then they added the technological piece of the text messages, and then they ran a controlled science experiment to see what would happen. So this was not just a, Hey, this might be interesting to see what happens. No, there was actual data here. And what’s also fascinating is the impact it had in terms of people’s thought process. And I alluded to this earlier, but in some associated laboratory experiments, they ran at the same time that they were doing the tests – now, mind you, they did these in the lab, these weren’t with people that were actually receiving the summons – they kind of brought in groups to study their reactions. The researchers examined a lay persons and an experts belief about whether failures to appear were intentional or not. So they lifted a variety of lay people, a variety of experts from the criminal justice system and asked if somebody doesn’t show up for court when they’re supposed to, is that intentional or not? What was interesting is that study participants believed that failure to comply in criminal situations was more intentional and less accidental than in other domains, like missing a doctor’s appointment. If somebody was an expert, if they operated in the criminal justice system, they actually had better understanding that mistakes happen and that sometimes people just don’t show up. So what was fascinating is the lay people were actually harsher on the criminals or the alleged criminals in this case, then the actual people who worked in the criminal justice systems and the final findings showed that the people who saw the new forms were able to identify the court information more quickly and recalled it more accurately when asked about it later, which suggests that a meaningful portion of the defendants who fail to appear aren’t intentionally skipping court, but it’s really that they’re just unaware of the requirement to be in court.

Dan Gingiss (12:03):
Yeah. And this gets to the fundamental, I guess, argument in business that we think our customers know all that we know about our products and services, and yet we live and breathe them every day. So we are of course the experts in them and our customers often don’t have all that information. And that’s why self-service has become such a popular thing. The fact that we even have to self-serve sometimes is frustrating. But heck when we do, we want to be able to find information, don’t assume that your customers know everything about your business, how it operates, what you want them to do, how you want them to do it, and when you want them to do it. And I think that’s what the court system figured out was that just because it all made sense to us, does it mean that it made sense to in this case, the most important person, which is the person that we’re requiring to show up?

Joey Coleman (12:55):
Absolutely. You know, what can we take away from this? We recognize friends that the majority of you are not involved in the criminal justice system, but in almost every business on the planet, there are behaviors that your customers are doing that you’re not happy about. They’re not showing up. They’re not completing forms fully. They’re not putting the right signature. They’re not giving the data that you need so that you can continue to deliver on the service. They’re not doing these things that you think are pretty basic. We have a tendency as humans to presume that that’s because the other person is just not complying or they’re not respecting us, or they’re affirmatively deciding to go against our wishes or they’re not smart, or they’re not smart when the reality is it may be our fault. We may not have expressly stated what needed to be happened. We may have not presented it in a way that was clearly understood to your point earlier, Dan, which I absolutely loved. It’s time to look at the aspects of your business, where you’re not getting the level of customer compliance and participation that you want and ask, could we design the experience to be better? And as a result, get a better experience for our customer.

Joey Coleman (14:13):
You listened to us, nNow we want to listen to you. By visiting our website and sharing your remarkable customer experiences with us, we can share them with a broader audience. Now, sit back and enjoy our Listener Stories.

Joey Coleman (14:29):
Congrats are in order, Dan. But I think I should let you share the big news instead of me sharing the big news here.

Dan Gingiss (14:38):
Oh, thanks buddy. I really appreciate it. Well, uh, on February 14th Valentine’s day, I got engaged and I’m super excited to have, uh, found the love of my life. And, uh, our listeners, our astute listeners may know that, uh, this is my second time around, but that’s just because we had to, we had to practice first to get it right. And, and now, now we’re going to get it right this time. So super excited.

Joey Coleman (15:03):
I love it. I love it. So excited for you, Dan, so excited for your lovely bride to be. She has definitely found a fantastic guy and in the spirit of joyous celebration, but with a tinge of a cautionary tale, as you begin to think about what has preparations, I have a little story. One of our loyal listeners, Cody Wales is the Manager of Consumer Experience Design at Advent Health. And he had a frustrating experience recently, as you prepared for his wedding. And he reached out to tell us about it, here is Cody sharing what happened:

Cody Wales (15:40):
So I have a customer service failure that I wanted to share. Uh, recently I went to a made to measure suit and dress clothes company for my wedding for to get suits from myself and my groomsmen. Uh, we drove down to Miami, which was a three plus hour drive, to their showroom so that we could have their tailors and their team measure us to reduce the probability of any miss measurements. It was a great in-store experience, but then when it came time for the suits to arrive and for us to try them on, we found that my, one of my groomsmen’s sleeves were four inches, too small. So immediately I reached out to the customer service team and they said, yep, we’ll make a remake, you know, shipped by this day and three to five day shipping. It’ll be there in plenty of time. That time goes by and I’m following up multiple times, haven’t heard back and suddenly they reach out and say, we’re sorry, it’s not going to ship until the day before the wedding. Obviously this is a huge issue. And they said, yep, sorry. And that’s it. I got ” we’re sincerely sorry,” via email. Uh, nothing else still working on resolving the issue, but what a failure of making it right. They could have gone above and beyond for such an emotionally important event and made me a customer for life. But now it’s the opposites opposite experience that I’m telling everyone not to use the service because they let me down on my big day.

Dan Gingiss (17:09):
Well, obviously Cody didn’t go to Gingiss formal wear. That was the first problem. I love it. You noticed? No, it was not the family formal wear business. No, I know it wasn’t cause it isn’t there anymore. So I can say that with some confidence, but man, I, that, you know, that definitely sounds annoying. And I know my dad who was, is definitely listening now would say that one of the biggest challenges in this industry is that you really only have one chance to get it right, because the wedding or the graduation or the prom or whatever it is, the big day happens once. And if you screw up the clothes for the other, for the customer, you don’t get a second chance. And so it has to be perfect. And in this case, it seems like it was far from it.

Joey Coleman (17:57):
Absolutely. And you know, weddings are high stress as is. And to your point, they’re operating on a fixed deadline. So if you operate in any business, forget the wedding industry, any business that is high stress with a fixed deadline, you must be ready for last minute resolutions and realize that missing the deadline is just not an option. You know, sometimes you’re in a business where, you know, if, for example, if I’m ordering a book online and the book arrives two weeks from now, as opposed to two days from now, it may be annoying, but it’s probably not a major crisis unless I needed to read that book and write a book report on it, or unless I was, you know, doing a podcast about the book and needed to read the book before we had the conversation. But again, if you’re in this business or you can envision scenarios where your customers might be in high stress, fixed deadline scenarios, you’ve got to be ready for the last minute craziness.

Dan Gingiss (18:56):
Yeah, for sure. And I think what’s also interesting here is that Cody had a couple of choices. He could have measured himself and his groomsmen and submitted the results online, which is convenient, but understandably, maybe a little nerve wracking that you might not know how to do it correctly. You might mess it up. So he drove those three hours to the company’s show room and said he had a great experience doing that. But if the customer goes out of their way to reduce the chances of error, that it would seem to me that the company should go out of their way to, uh, reduce the chances of error or at least to resolve things when an error happens. And obviously one of the other challenges here is that he couldn’t call customer service. There was only online options and those online options weren’t helpful. And I think about, uh, when people ask me how available they should be on social media, do they have to, you know, be around 24/7 to answer customer comments and complaints and I always say, it depends on what business you’re in, right? If you’re an international airline. Yeah. You bet you’re going to have to be there 24 seven. If you’re a mom and pop grocery store, no, you don’t have to, you can be there during business hours. But man, if you’re a company that provides people with clothing for their wedding at, which is a high stress and time sensitive situation, and you’re not there to answer their questions or to provide customer service, you’re not going to keep customers very long. And I do want to point out that at the end of Cody’s recording, he talks about how he’s telling everyone not to use this service. Right? And, and, and the reverse could have been true. He could have been talking about how great it was and how they have a customer for life. But instead he is telling people not to. And this is, this is the difference folks. This is the difference between having a happy customer who tells other people and creates more customers for you or having a disgruntled customer who tells other people and keeps new customers from coming to you. It seems like a simple choice.

Joey Coleman (21:00):
It’s it does seem like a simple choice, Dan, but you know, we wouldn’t have careers and a show. If everybody got this and behaved accordingly, right? This, the fact that things are going to go wrong is not what we’re trying to prevent, because things will always go wrong. There’s always the chance that something is outside of your control or mistakes happen, or situations arise that create scenarios that we’re not happy about, or that our customers aren’t happy about. But how we respond to those scenarios is what changes the story. And in fact, you can actually hear it in Cody’s recording. You know, he, when the suit arrives and the, it doesn’t fit, it’s like, Oh, okay. I reached out right away to let them know so that hopefully we could get things taken care of. And they’re like, Oh yeah, we’ll get to work on that right away. Up until that point in the story, if they actually delivered, Cody would probably be singing their praises. And would, even though there had been the misfire in the mistake, you would probably be like, you know, it didn’t go as well as I would have wanted on the first try, but man, they hustled and they got it done. And we were able to still pull off the wedding with no problems. The issue. I think if we really listened to the story that he shares, is that he didn’t feel that there was a proper level of empathy or apology for what happened. And I think the secret here is you need to quickly evaluate the significance of the problem when something comes up for your customers. And it’s not about how bad you think it is as the provider is the business. It’s about how bad the customer thinks the situation is. And if you are going to fail, you got to make sure that the apology is both sincere and significant.

Dan Gingiss (22:39):
Absolutely. I mean, I would have liked to see this company drive those same three hours from the showroom to the wedding location to deliver the suit, rather than putting it in the mail and depending on some shipping service to get it there on time as well! So there are things that you can do. And again, you know, you want to avoid the problem in the first place, but if you have a problem, how you react is going to go a long way to determining what customers do next and who they tell about it.

Joey Coleman (23:07):
Now, as you’ll notice, we didn’t mention the name of the made to measure suit company during this segment, because we have a policy here on experience, this of avoiding any brand shaming for bad experiences, but guess what? Customers don’t have that same policy when something goes wrong, they do name names and they are happily telling everyone they know not to do business with you because of the result of their bad experience. Now, if you want to make sure that customers are singing your praises, you need to make sure that you have systems and processes in place to make sure that when things do go wrong, like they did with Cody sued, you do everything to make it right. And speaking of spreading the word about remarkable customer experiences, if you’ve got an amazing customer story to share, or even a story of an interaction gone bad, we’d love to hear about it. Just visit the Contact Page at ExperienceThisShow.com and you’ll be able to leave us a voice recording and share your story. We’re excited to hear about your experiences and hope you’ll make the time to share for our next listener story.

Joey Coleman (24:11):
Almost everyone has interacted with chatbots, but all too often, it’s been a bad experience. In MythBusters – presented by Solvvy – we explore a common myth about CX chatbots and see how the right technology can create a positive experience, every time.

Joey Coleman (24:35):
Today’s myth about chatbots? It’s hard to measure the ROI of a chat bot. You might be thinking about adding a chat bot and automation tool to your website or your app, but it might not be a hundred percent sure about making the business case for adding this type of technology. Perhaps you’re concerned that proving the return on investment will be too difficult.

Dan Gingiss (24:57):
But the fact of the matter is it’s very easy to both measure and report on the value you get from a next gen customer support chat bot. The easiest way to make the case is by looking at how many customer questions, a chat bot resolves all on its own versus how many questions need to be resolved by contacting your customer care agents. Each instant resolution equals time and cost savings for your team. Often measured internally as cost per ticket or a similar metric add up instant resolutions and you can see how many tickets aren’t being created and how much agent time you’re saving straightforward.

Joey Coleman (25:32):
That’s simple ROI math to me, Dan! But you don’t even have to do the math next gen chatbots come equipped with intelligent dashboards that very quickly give you this information and tons more right out of the box. So it couldn’t be easier to explain and demonstrate the savings you’re getting immediately. Now there are other benefits to chat bots of course. Customers will love getting their answers quickly. Agents will love not having to field simple, repetitive questions all day. And when something goes wrong, like I don’t know a wedding suit that doesn’t fit properly. Your chat bot can make sure to properly escalate things, saving you time, money, and your reputation. The ROI for adopting better next gen chat bots and automation tools is easy to calculate once you project and then quickly prove the huge savings you’re getting.

Dan Gingiss (26:20):
And that’s another Myth Busted thanks to our friends at Solvvy – the Next Gen chatbot.

Joey Coleman (26:28):
We love telling stories and sharing key insights you can implement, or avoid, based on our experiences. Can you believe that This Just Happened?

Joey Coleman (26:42):
One of the best things about my recent move to Iowa with my family is that I’m getting to spend more time with my nieces and nephews. And recently my wonderful niece, Charlotte, had a memorable sixth birthday experience. Now my brother, KC, who is Charlotte’s dad, explained what happened in a post that he wrote about on Facebook. And I’m going to quote his post and then kind of interject as we go to explain some of the things for our listeners.

Joey Coleman (27:10):
“Over the course of the last year, our family outings have been rather limited due to COVID. That being said, riding to town is frequently a highlight for our cabin fever country kids. Charlotte would consistently get excited as we drove past Shikmat Motor Company, and would profusely express her need to drive over the new Stonewall display at the corner of their dealership.” Now friends and listeners, I need to interject here to explain this wall to people who don’t live in my local community here in Iowa. At Shikmat Motors, they recently installed a large rock wall display. (You can see pictures in the shownotes at ExperienceThisShow.com). But when I say large, I mean five to six feet tall, 10 to 12 feet wide, and about 80 to a hundred feet long made of stone. Now the wall actually has a ramp running along the top so that the folks at Shikmat can drive cars up the ramp and then park them on the wall for a nice display. Well, let me get back to the story my brother KC is telling. “Charlotte wanted to do this so badly that she asked every time we drove past and may or may not have suggested that we quote “sneak in at night when they’re all sleeping to drive over the wall.” This is Joey. Again, to be clear as my niece’s official legal representation, we do not admit to that allegation. Okay. Sorry. Back to the story once more. “On Friday, Charlotte got her chance as she turned six years old and the team at Shikmat made her birthday extra special. Not only did they let her drive the Shikmat golf cart over the wall, but they also greeted her at the door with a happy birthday and a logoed Jeep duffel bag filled with balloons and car themed presents waiting for her. Our family was so impressed by the team and their willingness to make our little girl’s day. We can’t thank them enough for a memory that will last forever. This was such a simple but special win, and it is utterly refreshing to see a business go out of their way to do something so selfless. If you are thinking about a new vehicle, the team at Shikmat is truly amazing and they’re more than willing to do whatever it takes to provide a great “future” customer experience. Happy birthday to our sweet little girl and thank you Shikmat Motor Company for making her birthday wish come true.

Dan Gingiss (29:27):
All right, now I have to ask Shikmat Motor Company know about uncle Joey?!

Joey Coleman (29:34):
They don’t that it’s the crazy thing about this. They do not know anything about me. They do not know any of the things. Let me give a little more background story. So this literally I’ve heard about this for months. My niece is constantly talking about this, but I didn’t know what my brother had done. So one day he’s driving by and he’s like, you know what? I’m just going to go in and see if I can make something happen. So he drives in, in his Ford pickup, to a dealership that sells Dodge, Ram, Chrysler, and Jeep brands. And he asked the salesman, Hey, would it be possible to arrange somehow for me to be able to drive over the wall with my daughter for her sixth birthday, right? I mean total craziness, but the salesman says, you know, that’s totally fine with me, but I should probably check with a manager. This salesperson was willing to go the extra distance to ask to advocate and guess what they said, yes.

Dan Gingiss (30:41):
I think that’s amazing. And I’m sure that Charlotte, and KC, and you will never forget that experience, which is awesome. And again, we mentioned this in a previous segment. I want to point out that your brother ended his post by saying, if you’re thinking about a new vehicle, let me recommend the folks at Shikmat, even though he’s not a customer.

Joey Coleman (31:03):
He’s not a customer, but I will tell you, what’s interesting. I asked him about that that night. I said when, when they taught week, cause she came over for a birthday and of course my niece was raving about you just driven the wall at Shikmat and had this amazing experience. And I asked him and he said, you know, when we buy our next car, that’s where we’re going. Like it literally changed their purchase decision. And as you know, Dan cars, not the cheapest investment, like this is a major impact in terms of the bottom line at Shikmat, because not only will my brother buy his next vehicle there, but I gotta tell you, I’m sitting here thinking when it’s time for me to buy a vehicle, I want to go there as well, as does my family as does a lot of people in our community that are hearing this story.

Dan Gingiss (31:47):
Absolutely. And that’s why, whatever it costs them to do this, it was worth it. Now I do know that you’re the recovering lawyer on the show, but I, I got to say, I was a little bit worried about maybe the insurance implications of this.

Joey Coleman (32:01):
You know, Dan, you are not a lawyer, but you could play one on TV with that type of question. I love it.

Dan Gingiss (32:05):
Or at least on a podcast!

Joey Coleman (32:05):
At least on a podcast. So for insurance reasons, they couldn’t have my brother, or a six-year-old for that matter, drive my brother’s truck or one of the showroom models over the wall. But the team at Shikmat got creative and what they could allow was them to drive the golf cart that they have on site to like try people around the dealership. So it allowed them to avoid any insurance concerns. And my six year old niece, Charlotte got to sit on my brother’s lap and actually steer so she was quote unquote the one actually “driving” the golf cart over the wall.

Dan Gingiss (32:44):
Well, that’s fantastic. And I can tell you as a parent of two teenagers, golf carts are very, very appealing to kids. Like the coolest thing ever. I’ve actually been asked. No joke. When I was asking my 15 year old son, what he wanted for his birthday, he said, can I get it golf cart? And I was like, what are you going to do with that? So I love it. Yeah, clearly is a lot of fun. And I think it’s such a great story. I love that they added the, the Jeep swag. I think that made it more special. So she had something to take home. And like I said, this is an experience she’ll never forget. And it doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with selling Jeep vehicles. Although as you noted it eventually will connect to selling Jeep vehicles.

Joey Coleman (33:33):
It absolutely will. And here’s the interesting thing. Not only did the folks at Shikmat not know that I had a customer experience podcast, but they didn’t ask my brother to tell this story now, to be clear prior to him posting about it on Facebook. And prior to us recording the show, he asked them, is it okay if I promote this and tell this story? And they were like, yeah, we’d love that. But you don’t have to. Here’s where it gets really interesting. So since the birthday surprise happened, my brother of course has shared it in dozens of conversations. And so have I, and now of course, we’re talking about it on the podcast. So tens of thousands of people all around the world, they’re going to be listening to it. He also did a Facebook post that within 48 hours had received 245 likes and over 40 comments, which is pretty amazing engagement. But what really caught my attention is over 20 people shared the post and these are people that live in the community. Now I’m not going to call out Shikmator any other type of auto dealership, but let me tell you, I’ve spent enough time on auto dealers websites to know that it’s pretty rare that they do a post on Facebook that gets 245 likes over 40 comments and 20 shares. So the moral of the story here is when your customers are raving about you, that’s marketing, you can’t buy, but you can generate that kind of marketing when you’re willing to do things that are unique and unexpected.

Dan Gingiss (35:03):
Absolutely! Creating positive experiences gets people to share. We know because we’ve shared the shared the research here on the show that people are more willing to share positive experiences than negative ones. It’s just that we don’t have enough positive ones to share. And so when we actually have a positive experience, we want to tell people about it. I’ve done this survey tons of times to audiences. When I’m doing a keynote speech, I’ll ask the audience, raise your hand. If you remember the last time you were wowed by a brand and you couldn’t wait, tell people about it. And two, three, maybe four hands go up. And then I say, now raise your hand. If you remember the last time you were disappointed by a brand, every hand in the audience goes up. I mean, and that’s why I do it right? Cause it works every single time. We don’t have enough positive experiences to share, which is why, if you’re listening to the show, one of the tens of thousands that you referenced, creating positive experiences can become your best marketing because when other people are talking about how great you are, it sounds better. It’s more credible. It’s more genuine. If I say that, Joey is a fantastic keynote speaker. That sounds a lot better than Joey saying that Joey is a fantastic keynote speaker, right? And I know he is because I’ve seen him speak. So that’s more credible. And you know, I’ve never heard of this car dealership before, but I can tell you the next time I’m driving through Iowa, I’m going to determine if I need a car right then and there. Cause I want to go see these guys just because of a story that you’ve now shared.

Joey Coleman (36:36):
I love it, Dan. So what can we all learn from this story? Even those of us that aren’t involved with a car dealership? Other than my little brother, KC, who is clearly a rock star dad… when you go above and beyond to create remarkable experiences, people want to talk about it. I have to imagine that the team at Shikmat Motors in little old Fort Dodge, Iowa never expected a prospective six year old customer would want to drive over their new stone wall. But when they realized they could make a birthday celebration, that won’t soon be forgotten, they leapt at the chance. Now I’m guessing that’s why they’ve been in business for 70 years now, and will probably be in business for at least another seventy years.

Joey Coleman (37:16):
Thanks for joining us for another episode of Experience This! You’re the best listener ever.

Dan Gingiss (37:28):
And since you listened to the whole show…

Joey Coleman (37:29):
Yay you!

Dan Gingiss (37:31):
Were curious, was there a specific part of this episode that you enjoyed the most? If so, it would mean the world to us if you could share it with a coworker, a friend, or someone that just loves listening to podcasts.

Joey Coleman (37:41):
And while you’re in the sharing mood, if you felt inclined to jump over to iTunes, or wherever you find your podcasts, and write us a review, we would so appreciate it. And when you do, don’t forget to let us know as we might have a little surprise for you.

Dan Gingiss (37:57):
Thanks again for your time and we’ll see you next week for more,

Joey Coleman (38:00):
Experience

Dan Gingiss (38:00):
This!

Episode 123 – Precision Produces Enhanced Experiences

Join us as we discuss an advertisement with extra special details, cutting edge research on the power of online reviews, and a creative way to get customers to follow your directions.

Skiing, Reviewing, and Cooking – Oh My!

Referenced in the Show

Check out the ad Joey saw from Stellar Equipment that showed the model’s name and size!

Host Contact Information

Email Dan: Dan@dangingiss.com

Tweet Dan Gingiss: @DGingiss

Email Joey: JoeyC@JoeyColeman.com

DanGingiss.com

JoeyColeman.com

Subscribe to Experience This on Apple Podcasts

Learn more about our Season 7 Partner – Solvvy – The NextGen Chatbot

Episode Transcript

Download an unedited transcript of Episode 123 here or read it below:

Joey Coleman (00:05):
Welcome to Experience This!

Dan Gingiss (00:07):
The podcast that celebrates remarkable customer experiences and inspires you to stand out from the competition by wowing your customers.

Joey Coleman (00:17):
Each episode, we bring you a healthy dose of inspiring stories, funny interactions, and practical takeaways. Marketing and customer experience thought leader, Dan Gingiss…

Dan Gingiss (00:30):
shares the mic with customer retention and employee experience expert, Joey Coleman, helping you to get people talking about your business.

Joey Coleman (00:40):
So get ready because it’s time to Experience This!

Dan Gingiss (00:49):
Get ready for another episode of the Experience This Show!

Dan Gingiss (00:54):
Join us as we discuss: an advertisement with extra special details, cutting edge research on the power of online reviews, and a creative way to get customers to follow your directions.

Joey Coleman (01:07):
Skiing, Reviewing, and Cooking… Oh my!

Joey Coleman (01:14):
Just because you have required elements of your business doesn’t mean they need to be boring. It’s time to get creative, have some fun, and make people sit up and take notice! Get your customers talking when you make the Required Remarkable!

Joey Coleman (01:34):
I have a question for you, Dan… When is the last time that you saw an advertisement and thought, “now, I haven’t seen that before!”

Dan Gingiss (01:41):
It’s probably like every time my 13 year old daughter finds something like the perfect pineapple corer or the avocado saver, or…

Joey Coleman (01:53):
Those slicers are lovely savers – a separate conversation.

Dan Gingiss (01:56):
Those items that only work for one thing…

Joey Coleman (01:59):
Fair enough, yeah, fair enough. I appreciate that. Well, I had an experience the other day where I got an email with an ad for something that in some ways I’d never seen before, but I had wished that I had seen many, many times, but first of all, before I explain the ad, let me give you a little backstory. So about two years ago, I stumbled across an ad on Facebook for a company called Stellar Equipment. Stellar creates high performance outdoor equipment using the best materials and factories in the world. Their specialty is ski wear jackets, pants, shells, layers. They offer entire technical outerwear systems (that’s their words – or ski outfits like you and I might say) that allow for optimal performance on the mountain while staying warm and looking good. Now they sell online and in two showrooms, one in Sweden and one in Switzerland now to be clear, Dan, I am not an amazing skier by any stretch of the imagination, but I do enjoy it. And after a decade or so of using my old ski pants and jacket, I thought it was time to invest in some upgraded ski wear. So in early 2020, about a year ago, I decided to purchase their signature system. And as a result, I started receiving their e-newsletter, which brings me to the advertisement that I referenced earlier. So if you go to our show notes page had ExperiencedThisShow.com you can see the images I’m about to describe, and we’ll include a link to the stellar website as well. So stellar sent this ad, announcing their new padded pants and shirts. This is basically a mid-layer, which is a fancy way of saying it goes over your long underwear and under your ski jacket, right? A mid-layer. And they describe the outfit as follows quote, “Using dermisaxNX from Japanese innovators Toray, this three layer shell is lightweight and stretchable while completely waterproof, completely windproof, and extremely breathable. In fact, you’ll have a hard time finding any shell material that can compete with its comfort and performance.

Dan Gingiss (04:00):
Joey windproof and breathable sounds sexy, right?

Joey Coleman (04:04):
So fun.

Dan Gingiss (04:05):
Well, it sounds pretty cool, but uh, why exactly did this ad stand out so much?

Joey Coleman (04:11):
Well, the ad stood out, not because of the copy, which was great, but because of the picture accompanying the copy now in the photograph, it showed a male model standing in a ski lodge, wearing the padded shirt and pants that were being advertised. But here’s where it got interesting super-imposed on the image was the following message. Cody is 184 centimeters and 78 kilograms or six foot one and 172 pounds wearing size L. In all my years, Dan of looking at ads where models were wearing clothing. I had never seen an ad calling the model by name and sharing their height and weight. So when I was looking at it, I could say, huh, he’s six one, I’m six, two. He weighs 172 pounds. I weigh a little more than 172 pounds. I would probably want size large. And I didn’t have to look at a sizing chart. I didn’t have to order both sizes and have them both shipped here and try and both on and decide which one fit and, you know, do the customer convenient, but environmentally unconvenient, send one back. I knew from the ad exactly what I was supposed to order if I wanted to order these clothes. So

Dan Gingiss (05:29):
I think that’s really neat. I also like the personalization of knowing his name, that it’s a real person. I think that was kind of clever. Now I want to ask you and, uh, and, and folks joy doesn’t know I’m going to ask him this question, but was your response so positive because he was so close to your size? Or, I mean, what if he was five foot, six and 320 pounds? Would you have been like, Ooh, so cool that they shared his height and weight or was it just that it happened to be close you?

Joey Coleman (05:58):
That’s a great question that I hate. I’m not exactly sure. I think it was relevant and not relevant. Here’s what I mean by that on one hand, I’m in that unique spot, especially when you think about European sizing where like in America, often I end up sizing towards the large size, maybe the extra large size that usually is height dependent in Europe though. It’s kind of a weird thing because as a general rule, Europeans maybe skew different sizes and shapes then most folks from the United States. So given that it’s a European country, I appreciated not only that they broke down and did me the courtesy of giving it to us in English instead of just in metric. But the fact that I could look at it and go six one six, two, Oh, that’s pretty close, large. I can see that, you know, there’s a little bit of extra length in the leg. That’ll probably be fine with another inch. So I think it was really useful that he was my size. What was interesting though, is if you go to the website, they also have a picture of a female model wearing their women’s version. And that version identifies the model as Emma being 169 centimeters and 56 kilograms or five foot seven, 123 pounds wearing size S – small. So again, they’re giving you some guidance visually in terms of the body shape and answering questions about the product fit that I think is going to help a prospective buyer realize not only how the outfit might look on them, which I think is lots of times what we think of when we look at a model, but also what’s it going to drape like, what’s it going to fit like?

Dan Gingiss (07:34):
Yeah, I think it’s really interesting and if I, if I could make a suggestion of even sort of where you would take it next would be to have the customer, have the ability to put in their own height and weight and to adjust the so-called model. Hey, maybe we’ll get little, Lil Miquela to be our model.

Joey Coleman (07:51):
I love that. Shout out to a previous episode, Dan love it.

Dan Gingiss (07:55):
Uh, but we could, you know, you basically, you could see a real live model that was your shape, shape and size because I think it’s great. I think it even, you know, I’m thinking to myself, okay, I’m not anywhere near six one. And so I think I probably could tell from looking at this guy that I would be a medium, but am I sure. And so I think it would be fascinating to be able to just put in your, you know, your own height and weight and get the picture or the model. But I think this is a really interesting start and I, I think it’s, I’m glad you called it out. I think it’s cool.

Joey Coleman (08:28):
Yeah. I’m excited. Cause I felt like it was a step in the right direction. I can not think of an ad that I have ever seen that called the model by name or gave their height and weight. Now sometimes you can look at it and you can make a guess, but let’s be candid – most of the models and clothing ads have bodies that the average person looking at the ad wishes that they had, you know, it’s like, hi, we’re selling this scarf with our six pack abs. And you’re like, what did the abs have to do with the scarf? Nothing. But what it does, what this ad from Stellar did is it, let me see, okay. I could see myself in these clothes and I could have a better idea of what I was going to, uh, look like wearing the clothes. You know, it’s interesting, I’m reminded of an ad. I created years ago when I was running my ad agency for a company called SMO, they were a heating oil and propane company in Southern Maryland and they did this huge rebrand and as part of the rebrand, we redesigned truck wraps for all of their vehicles. They had hundreds of vehicles and we did custom designs for the left side of the vehicle and the right side of the vehicle. So they were all different. And then we put a series of phone numbers on the different sides of the trucks, so that we could start to get an idea of which ad led to the most inbound calls, you know, kind of like split testing in a digital world but in the physical world with these trucks driving around the community, we had funny ads. We had poignant ads, but here’s the thing. The ad that drew the most phone calls was a picture of a dog in a bathtub with a line that said, “Don’t worry, we’ll keep the water warm” because they’re home heating oil and propane company, but here’s the thing, Dan, it, the phone rang off the hook like five to one for that ad. But everybody who called in wanted to know what the dog’s name was. Now, interestingly enough, the dog’s name was stock photo.com dog. You know, I mean, it was just, there was no name and we didn’t do a photo shoot. We bought a picture of a dog in a tub, but it opened my eyes in that moment to the fact that when we can personalize the advertisements, people connect at a much more emotional way, connect in a much more emotional way in a much deeper fashion.

Dan Gingiss (10:40):
Yeah. It’s like, we’ve talked about a number of products on this show where when you receive the package in the mail, it says it was packed by this person. And you know, you may not know that person, but at least you see it’s another human being or they sign their name or something like that. I’ve definitely liked the personalization. I think it’s a great ad. I love it.

Joey Coleman (11:00):
So what can we learn from this, forgive the pun, stellar ad from the team at Stellar. Like what I did there Dan? So if you want to introduce a new product to your customers, don’t just focus on the sales language and imagery. Personalize the conversation by telling us the name of the model. Let us see how the product is going to work for us by telling us about the environment where the images were taken, the models, using the product, how they’re interacting with the product. The more your communications can humanize your products and services, the more the humans you’re advertising to will want your products and services.

Joey Coleman (11:40):
There are so many great customer experience articles to read, but who has the time?! We summarize them and offer clear takeaways you can implement starting tomorrow. Enjoy this segment of CX Press, where we read the articles so you don’t need to!

Joey Coleman (11:59):
You’ve had the opportunity to speak for the fine folks at Podium – didn’t you, at some point in the past?

Dan Gingiss (12:05):
I did and in fact, I’m still doing so – they are a client of mine now and, uh, really liked those guys. I like working with them…

Joey Coleman (12:12):
They are fantastic folks. I had the pleasure of speaking to the Podium team as well last year. Uh, but to be clear, the story that we’re about to talk about is not a sponsored segment. In fact, Podium has no idea. We’re recording this conversation right now. Dan, you had no idea before we started recording tonight that we were going to be recording about this, but I had the chance to read their brand new 2021 State of Reviews Report. And to be honest, it was so full of actionable insights and just really eye opening observations that I wanted to share it with our listeners. Now, for context, if you haven’t heard of podium before podium is a fast growing software company that specializes in customer interactions. Now they call their solution, the “ultimate messaging platform,” because it allows for multi-channel communications to funnel into a single location. So you can text with your customers, connect with your website traffic, request and comment on reviews, collect payments. You can do so much more all in one software solution. Now I came to know of podium for their expertise in helping local businesses do more, to get reviews and then use those reviews to grow their business, which is why I was so curious about their findings in the 2021 State of Reviews Report.

Dan Gingiss (13:28):
Yeah, it’s obviously a fascinating and sometimes terrifying part of running a business, right? Is this whole thing around reviews. When do you ask for them, how do you ask for them? What do you do about them? Do you respond some sites? Don’t let you respond at all. What if they’re anonymous? What if people are complaining about you? These are things that keep small business owners up at night so it’s a very important topic.

Joey Coleman (13:55):
Absolutely. And you know, it’s interesting because I think it’s one of those topics, Dan, that everyone knows it’s important, but it’s kind of hard to know where to dive in, but there are so many moving parts to this, and that’s why I loved this report. So the 2021 State of Reviews rReport starts out with the following observation, which I found pretty profound, quote “Reviews have never been so important or influential. In the wake of COVID-19 the information they provide and customer experience they paint are closely and regularly analyzed by consumers. In our digital marketplace reviews are the first link to connecting with your business and the first deciding factor in moving to a competitor. To stay competitive businesses must proactively remove any obstacles that prevent customers from leaving reviews.” Now, the report goes on to share the findings of a survey that they did in October of 2020, across a US audience that included 1,543 consumers (aged 18 to 99, in all regions of the country) 455 small business owners or managers, and 378 enterprise business leaders in businesses with a local presence. Now let’s talk about a few of the interesting statistics that we found in the review. Dan, do you want to share one that you liked?

Dan Gingiss (15:15):
Sure. Well, the top characteristics that consumers say are most important when choosing a local business: Location is number one at 61%, Price or Promotions at 55%. And then we get into some interesting pieces: Personal recommendations at 50%, and Reviews at 41%.

Joey Coleman (15:36):
You know, I thought that one was really interesting, Dan, because when we think of a local business location, location, location, right, that’s pretty obvious price. Hello, die. Everybody knows about that personal recommendations. If you can get word of mouth, of course, but coming in, in the strong fourth place with double digit 41% reviews, I was somewhat surprised to see it that high in the list. But I wasn’t surprised when I learned the next statistic, which was 65% of consumers have read a review of some product or service in the last week. And 85% have read a review in the last month. People are reading reviews like crazy left and right, and that’s contributing to their buying decisions.

Dan Gingiss (16:22):
It makes sense. And 58% of consumers are willing to travel further and pay more to patronize a business with higher reviews. And this actually happened the other night was my daughter’s 13th birthday. She asked for sushi and she found, online, a new sushi place that we hadn’t been to. That was frankly, a little bit farther away than normal, but it got terrific reviews. And that’s why we tried it. And guess what? We loved it and we’re going to go back.

Joey Coleman (16:47):
I love it. I love it. Now here’s the question, Dan, have you written a review?

Dan Gingiss (16:52):
Great question. I have not. I probably should.

Joey Coleman (16:55):
Okay. If you haven’t because it illustrates the point. Here’s the crazy thing. 81% of consumers leave a review four times a year or less. So the majority of people, if they are going to do a review are going to do no more than four in a year, which means super reviewers are really rare. 20% of people say they have never left a review, in any capacity, for any product or service. Now I know from our conversations, you’ve left plenty of reviews over the years. But what I think was interesting about this statistic is what can we do to get people who like you had a great experience to actually write about the fact that you went further than you normally would, that you went for a special occasion, right? That you were doing this effort to go above and beyond because you wanted to try a new place and how it really paid off because of the reviews.

Dan Gingiss (17:47):
Well, and just to stay on that story, I’ll tell you exactly how they should have done it. They, I called in the order. So they had my name and phone number. And when I went to pick it up, I told them it was my first time being there. And she asked me where I lived and she said, Oh, you drove a little ways to get here. I said, yeah, they, all they had to do was call me half an hour later and say, Hey, how was your dinner? And ask me to write a review. And I, boom, I would have done it immediately.

Joey Coleman (18:10):
Or my gut instinct is you gave them your cell phone number. They could have even texted. You could have texted them interestingly enough – and this is a plug for our friends at Podium. I guess they have a texting solution that allows you to solve for that problem. But this kind of illustrates the point you were making earlier that we’ve got to know when to ask for the reviews and we have to actually do the ask. It’s not enough just to have a great product. We need to remind people that we made a promise of a great product we delivered on that product. And part of the payment that they can give back to us is to write a review.

Dan Gingiss (18:44):
Yeah. And one of the things I learned in corporate America was find that place where, you know, you make your customers happy and that’s when you ask them. So when I worked at discover, what we realized was the moment they were happiest with us was when customers redeemed their rewards, because it was like getting free money and who doesn’t like free money. So we learned that that was the moment to ask for a review because they thought they thought we were awesome. Right? And so we didn’t put on the website, leave us a review in 70 different places. We put it in the places where we knew that they were in, that customers were in a good mood and really happy with us. Right. And it worked, it, it it’s, you know, if you hit them at the right time, especially local businesses. And I think so many people now we feel for local businesses, we want to support them. And if a review helps you do have to make the because it’s not that I meant to not leave a review of this place. I just never thought about it.

Joey Coleman (19:39):
Right. And you got caught up with other things you had ordered dinner. I presume you were driving all the way back home to then sit down and have sushi dinner with the family. So what’s interesting is the report actually speaks to this. They noted that after having a good experience with a local business, consumers are 12% more likely to leave a review if they saw a sign asking them to in the business establishment, and 36% more likely if they receive an email invite to leave a review. Now, I’m not sure if there was anything in the research that talked about getting a text message to leave a review, but I bet that’s even higher, especially in like a takeout scenario like this, where if I could just click, Hey, I’ll give you five stars. Boom, they’ve got the review, which led to another interesting stat that was in the reports, which is 86% of consumers require at least a three-star average rating in order to even consider engaging with your business with 3.4 being the average star rating required. So if your business doesn’t have 3.4 stars out of five, they’re not even going to consider you. You’ve got to get that up in the four and five range.

Dan Gingiss (20:46):
Yeah. Would say personally, mine, my limit is usually a four.

Joey Coleman (20:51):
You have a higher threshold for awesomeness.

Dan Gingiss (20:53):
Exactly – or for pain – I don’t know. I know there are another related statistic here, which you and I have talked about before is that 68% of consumers agree or somewhat agree that they don’t trust a high review rating unless there’s also a high quality of reviews. And we’ve talked about this. I think I mentioned in a previous episode, how happy I was to get my first three star review on Amazon for my book, because everything up until then had been five stars. And it isn’t believable. I mean, even though they were all real people don’t believe that any product or services is exactly five stars. And so that one, three star review brought me down to like, uh, you know, whatever it is at 4.8, 4.9 and now it’s realistic.

Joey Coleman (21:35):
Absolutely. You know, it’s so funny. Dan years ago, a friend of mine had written a book and he had asked me to do a review and I knew how reviews worked. And I went on Amazon to see, and he had like twenty 5 star reviews. So I decided to write a four star review and I wrote the review and I made the lack of the fifth star. I called out why I wasn’t giving it a fifth star. And it was some benign reason like, Oh, I wish there would have been three more chapters. You know, something that anybody who is actually reading a review, it’d be like, Oh, just get over yourself. Give them the five stars. But when my friend, when we talked about it, he’s like, Oh, why didn’t you give me the four star? I was like, I give you the four star to help you. I’m not hurting you with the forced arm actually helping you. So I do think that it’s one of those things where we don’t want to always strive for just the five star reviews. Interestingly enough, one of the things that they also found in the study is that how you comment on reviews like negative reviews is really important. So there’s an encouragement there for any business that has reviews comment on the reviews. If at all possible. Now I get in some formats, you can’t do that. And in some platforms where reviews are left, but if you get the chance to actually comment, thank them for the review, acknowledged the review. If something has gone wrong, explain why it went wrong. Don’t get defensive, but either just genuinely apologize or point out some additional facts that might’ve been left out of the review, your customers and your prospects who have never done business with you are less crazy than the people who write one-star reviews and they will read through and become advocates for you.

Dan Gingiss (23:15):
Absolutely. And this is why we to ask for reviews of the ExperienceThisShow at the end of every episode. And here’s what we know from our friends at podium, even though we’ve been asking only a small percentage of listeners actually write reviews. So we want to make that easier for you.

Joey Coleman (23:32):
So we came across this interesting new service called love the podcast. Okay? So you have to participate. All you have to do is visit LoveThePodcast.com/ExperienceThis. And what it will do is it will identify what platform you’re on, either Apple or Android, and it will give you an easy way to leave a review for our show in the platform that best suits your needs. I know lots of times we talk about leaving a review on iTunes. This will, with some technology, figure out the best places for you to leave reviews. And if you do leave a review, please make sure to let us know so we can appreciate your review and all sorts of fun and creative ways.

Joey Coleman (24:15):
Almost everyone has interacted with chatbots, but all too often, it’s been a bad experience. In MythBusters – presented by Solvvy – we explore a common myth about CX chatbots and see how the right technology can create a positive experience every time.

Joey Coleman (24:40):
Today’s myth about chatbots? Chatbots are glorified search engines. Allow me to explain. Straightforward questions should have straightforward answers correct? So why is it that so many chatbots respond to straightforward, basic customer questions by providing a list of helpful links or perhaps a massive article that takes 10 minutes to scroll through, just to find the one piece of information that you actually need. I’m not sure about you, Dan, but when this happens, I wind up asking to talk to an agent or I submit a support ticket. So I don’t have to waste my time with the chat bot.

Dan Gingiss (25:16):
Yeah, I hear you Joey, but while there’s a myth that chatbots are glorified search engines, the reality is that intelligent chatbots provide specific answers and use images, videos, and even interactive tools to provide customers with great support. For example, let’s say a product you purchased, isn’t working the way you hoped you bought some ski pants for example, and they don’t fit! If you visited a company’s online help center, an intelligent chat bot is able to ask short questions to help narrow down your problem and effectively troubleshoot the issue instead of displaying a bunch of random links or just copy of the manual that came with the product, which you probably have anyway, the chat bot shares the specific instructions or videos that you need to resolve the problem with a next gen chat bot. Common questions do have straightforward answers.

Joey Coleman (26:05):
That sounds like such a better customer experience. It’s about time that the technology provided straightforward answers to straightforward questions. We’ll learn more about advances in chat bots and support automation throughout the season.

Dan Gingiss (26:20):
And that’s another myth busted – thanks to our friends at Solvvy, the Next Gen Chatbot.

Joey Coleman (26:27):
We love telling stories and sharing key insights you can implement, or avoid, based on our experiences. Can you believe that This Just Happened!

Joey Coleman (26:41):
As our loyal listeners probably remember, when it comes to the co-hosts of the Experience This Show, Dan is by far the better of the two of us when it comes to things like pinball, Chicago Cubs fandom, Twitter, and cooking.

Dan Gingiss (26:56):
Oh, well, hey, thanks man, pat me on the back! I really appreciate all the fine compliments. Uh, you’re definitely better when it comes to hair. I would say definitely a better singer. I would say for sure.

Joey Coleman (27:11):
No, no, not!

Dan Gingiss (27:11):
A better LEGO builder absolutely. Uh, but hey, I’m glad you called out cooking because I do love cooking and I am proud to say that I cook for my kids multiple times a week, usually at least four times a week and I have so much fun doing it. Now I’ve got them involved in it too.

Joey Coleman (27:28):
And you cook for teenagers and they eat what you cook, which is pretty impressive Dan! It shows that you

Dan Gingiss (27:33):
They do eat a lot of what I cook!

Joey Coleman (27:34):
They eat a lot of what you cook. I love it! So here’s the thing, I’ve got to confess, as we start out a new year, I’ve been considering some enhancements in my personal life. And one of those areas is to potentially improve my culinary skills. So I actually helped to make dinner tonight before we recorded this episode.

Dan Gingiss (27:54):
Really? Now I know your wife Berit is quite a good cook, so what was on the menu tonight?

Joey Coleman (27:59):
Yes. Berit is definitely the better cook in the family. She is normally the one providing all of the meals, which I so greatly appreciate. But tonight I thought I would start with pasta in boiling water.

Dan Gingiss (28:10):
Wow Joey! You’re like next stop, Top Chef right?

Joey Coleman (28:17):
And I can feel it coming well, no, I let’s be candid folks. We got to start somewhere. Right. But I have a question for you, Dan. How do you know when the spaghetti is ready?

Dan Gingiss (28:28):
The spaghetti is ready? Uh, well, uh, you know, usually I asked my friend a L E X a to set a timer for me, but if I forget, I kind of have to do the old, like tasted, burned my hand on the hot pasta if it’s too crunchy, put it back in. Okay.

Joey Coleman (28:44):
All right. So either the timer or the taste method, I also know this, throw it against the wall method. I’ve heard about, I’ve heard about the cut it in half method, which some people swear by, some people think that ruins the entire meal, but I tonight actually had some additional help in the kitchen that went beyond any of these techniques. I had some help from the fine folks at Barilla.

Dan Gingiss (29:09):
Barilla, like the Italian pasta company?

Joey Coleman (29:12):
Yes. And they helped me with music.

Dan Gingiss (29:17):
Music? I’m not sure I understand.

Joey Coleman (29:20):
Well, here’s the thing… A few weeks ago, a series of custom playlist appeared on Spotify. So let me play you a little sample:

Barilla Narrator (29:27):
[Italian well wishes…] [Inaudible].

Dan Gingiss (29:39):
Wow. Well, I didn’t really understand that, but I think the speaker was speaking Italian. What was being said there?

Joey Coleman (29:48):
Yeah – I have no idea. I agree. It was Italian and I don’t know what the speaker was saying, but here’s what I do know is that that clip came from the Mixtape Spaghetti playlist.

Dan Gingiss (29:59):
Of course it did!

Joey Coleman (29:59):
Play last mix tape spaghetti, right? This playlist is nine minutes and three seconds long. And if you start playing the playlist, when you add the spaghetti to the boiling water, when the last song ends on the playlist, you know, it’s time to remove the spaghetti and it will be cooked perfectly.

Dan Gingiss (30:18):
Nine minutes and three seconds.

Joey Coleman (30:20):
And three second!

Dan Gingiss (30:21):
I’ve never waited that three seconds.

Joey Coleman (30:27):
And there you go.

Dan Gingiss (30:28):
I love that. That is a kind of a fun way to it’s better than just a timer, tick, tick ticking, or, or the silence that you hear when you ask for a timer on your phone or your A-L-E-X-A. That was fun!

Joey Coleman (30:40):
Absolutely. And let’s be candid if you’re into pastas other than spaghetti, don’t worry. Barilla’s got you covered. In addition to Mixtape Spaghetti, you can listen to the Boom Bap Fusili, the Pleasant Melancholy Penne, the Moody Day Linguine, Top Hits Spaghetti, Best Song Penne, Timeless Emotion Fusili, and Simply Classics Linguini. All of those have their own playlist in short, there’s a musical playlist for pretty much every variety of pasta you might hope to cook.

Dan Gingiss (31:13):
I love that. And I, I would assume that sometimes you have to cook different pastas for different lengths. So I assume that

Joey Coleman (31:19):
Play this role different way.

Dan Gingiss (31:22):
Cool. It kind of reminds me, uh, you know, somewhat recently we were talking about, uh, the LEGO white noise music that you played for me.

Joey Coleman (31:30):
Uh, yes Dan, that would be Episode 121.

Dan Gingiss (31:34):
Aay! Look at you!

Joey Coleman (31:39):
Yeah, two episodes ago – this is not a huge stretch friends, but yeah, this whole idea of products that are going to be in people’s homes, providing a soundtrack for the product. So what can we learn from the creative folks at Barilla? Well, part of the customer experience is what happens when a customer is using your product or service and you’re not in the room with them to make sure it goes well. For years, companies have printed recommended cook times on the box of pasta that sometimes are read and followed, but most times aren’t by creating a Spotify playlist, Barilla is bringing some fun and entertainment to the kitchen. They know you might be listening to music while you cook. So why not let the music be part of the cooking experience. Now Dan and I realize you may not be in the business of making pasta and the playlist may not enhance your customer’s experience, but it does beg the question: what can you do to help your customer succeed when using your product or service? And how can you be creative in a way that lets them comply your instructions, even when you’re not in the room and thus get the full benefit of choosing to do business with you. Bon Appetito!

Joey Coleman (32:48):
Thanks for joining us for another episode of Experience This! You are the best listener ever!

Dan Gingiss (32:58):
And since you listened to the whole show…

Joey Coleman (33:01):
Yay you!

Dan Gingiss (33:02):
We’re curious… Was there a specific part of this episode that you enjoyed the most? If so, it would mean the world to us if you could share it with a coworker, a friend, or someone that just loves listening to podcasts.

Joey Coleman (33:12):
And while you’re in the sharing mood, if you felt inclined to jump over to iTunes – or wherever you find your podcasts – and write us a review, we would so appreciate it. And when you do, don’t forget to let us know as we might have a little surprise for you.

Dan Gingiss (33:28):
Thanks again for your time and we’ll see you next week for more.

Joey Coleman (33:31):
Experience

Dan Gingiss (33:33):
This!

Episode 122 – Crystal Clean Experiences with Innovative Videos

Join us as we discuss using video to help explain things to your customers, avoiding irrelevance through digital innovation, and a maid service that is doing far more than just sweeping and dusting.

Fixing, Digitizing, and Cleaning– Oh My!

Referenced in the Show

Check out the video Dan received from his auto technician:

Host Contact Information

Email Dan: Dan@dangingiss.com

Tweet Dan Gingiss: @DGingiss

Email Joey: JoeyC@JoeyColeman.com

DanGingiss.com

JoeyColeman.com

Subscribe to Experience This on Apple Podcasts

Learn more about our Season 7 Partner – Solvvy – The NextGen Chatbot

Episode Transcript

Download an unedited transcript of Episode 122 here or read it below:

Joey Coleman (00:05):
Welcome to Experience This!

Dan Gingiss (00:07):
The podcast that celebrates remarkable customer experiences and inspires you to stand out from the competition by wowing your customers.

Joey Coleman (00:17):
Each episode, we bring you a healthy dose of inspiring stories, funny interactions, and practical takeaways. Marketing and customer experience thought leader, Dan Gingiss…

Dan Gingiss (00:30):
shares the mic with customer retention and employee experience expert, Joey Coleman, helping you to get people talking about your business.

Joey Coleman (00:40):
So get ready because it’s time to Experience This!

Dan Gingiss (00:49):
Get ready for another episode of the Experience This Show!

Joey Coleman (00:56):
Join us as we discuss: using video to help explain things to your customers, avoiding irrelevance through digital innovation, and a maid service that is doing far more than just sweeping and dusting.

Dan Gingiss (01:11):
Fixing, Digitizing, and Cleaning – Oh my!

Joey Coleman (01:17):
We love telling stories and sharing key insights you can implement, or avoid, based on our experiences. Can you believe that This Just Happened!?!

Dan Gingiss (01:31):
So Joey – you may remember from way back in Season 1, Episode 10, that I’m a big fan of BMW. And I believe that the ultimate driving experience not only describes what it’s like to be in the car, but it actually describes what it’s like to have the car serviced after you purchased the car.

Joey Coleman (01:53):
Yes, I do recall. What’s interesting Dan is I’m remembering that you really loved the place where you took your car to be serviced. And we’ve talked about that before, and we’ve talked in past episodes about how much I love the place where I took my car to be serviced. I think we are probably the should buy a lottery ticket because it is rare that two people would find such love for their auto mechanic.

Dan Gingiss (02:16):
For sure. For sure. Now I wanted to come back to this same dealership, which is Field’s BMW in Northfield, Illinois and talk about something that I like to call blind transactions.

Joey Coleman (02:29):
Ooo blind transactions – do tell us more!

Dan Gingiss (02:32):
Well, this is where a customer doesn’t really know what’s going on and just has to trust the provider. So think about going to the dentist. And the dentist says, Oh, this tooth needs a crown. And you’re like, okay, I guess I got a crown?

Joey Coleman (02:50):
Sure it does!

Dan Gingiss (02:51):
I mean, I don’t know any different. I got to trust the dentist, right. Or I had a refrigerator guy out one day and my refrigerator wasn’t cooling. He said, well, you need more Freon.

Joey Coleman (03:01):
Was it Freon? It’s like, literally the only thing I know about refrigeration is that Freon is somehow involved. How much, how you know if you need more, I have no idea?!

Dan Gingiss (03:11):
Well, and they’re also phasing it out because it’s environmentally disastrous. And so it’s like 400 dollars.

Joey Coleman (03:16):
Freon is not free kids!

Dan Gingiss (03:19):
Anyway. So going to the auto mechanic is kind of like that for me, I’m not much of a car guy. And so when they say, Hey, you need new brake pads. I’m like, Oh, okay. Brake pads sound important. We better get those. Right. I mean, so it’s a blind transaction for me.

Joey Coleman (03:32):
I had a teacher in high school that always used to joke about with kids to prove this point. He would say something like, well, if I told you you needed a new muffler belt, what would you say? And what you’re supposed to say is you’re crazy because a muffler doesn’t have a belt, but the majority of young 16, 17 year olds didn’t know that answer. Right. They had no clue. So yeah, this, this shows up in a lot of industries now that you bring it up.

Dan Gingiss (03:57):
Yeah, definitely does. So anyway, I went in for just an oil change, real, pretty easy. And as part of the oil change, they do a whole once over of the car and house, as I was checking out the associate that was helping me said here, I want to show you this video. And he brings up on his screen and they also emailed this to me about a two minute video of the auto mechanic underneath my car and showing me all of the parts underneath my car and how he was inspecting them. And what was so cool was like when he went to check the width of the tires, right. To make sure that, uh, that there wasn’t too much wear…

Joey Coleman (04:40):
The car is on tires! Ladies and gentlemen, we’re seeing just how much of a blind transaction this actually is for Dan!

Dan Gingiss (04:47):
Oh, geez. I mean, but anyway, he was looking at, uh, you know, to, to look at the treads, right. He’s looking at the width, but what’s cool is in the video, you actually see the measurement tool that he’s using and you can see the measurement. So it’s not like he’s, you know, you don’t have to worry about him, lying to you and saying, Oh yeah, it looks just fine. Or, Oh, you need new tires. He’s actually showing you measuring, showing himself, measuring it and giving you the results. So let’s cut to the audio. I understand folks that the audio is going to be a little bit different on a podcast, but Hey, it’s a podcast. So we’re going to listen in and just imagine Jerry, the mechanic is literally underneath my car with his phone, taking this video.

Jerry the Technician (05:30):
Hello. My name is Jerry. I’m the technician forming services on your vehicle today. Uh, just a quick look at your undercarriage, starting with the rear tires. I’m going to clear out of the way. Uh, if you see the measurement sets seven millimeters and the CADing it’s in like-new condition, uh, same thing goes for your brakes. Uh, pads are measured at 10 millimeters rotor faces are in good condition. There’s no corrosion or pitting. So those are looking good. Uh, following the suspension over here, there’s nothing bent or out of place. Everything looks like as it’s supposed to. I was rear differential, no leaks left rear tire also measured at seven millimeters in the green. Continue on air exhaust is free of damage, positioned correctly, free of leaks transfer case transmission pan will pan are all clean and free of leaks. I’m trying to get a good view up here and it kind of crowded your valve cover everything up there at the top of the engine is clean and free of leaks. Uh, your front tire is also measured seven millimeters. So they’re also in good condition. Your suspension everything’s tight as it should be. Nothing loose, nothing damaged a tire person for adjusted. We’re going to continue the inspection at the top of the vehicle. All right, here, we have a shot at your engine bay. We’re about to pull the engine oil and complete your service washer solve. It was full or filled. I’m sorry. Cool levels. Check the field. It prompts me to service a top of the engine. Does that reveal analytics doesn’t look like there’s anything or worry about. Um, so your inspections good. Uh, nothing further to report. If you have any questions regarding this video, please contact for service advisor. Otherwise thank you for trusting Field BMW.

Dan Gingiss (07:34):
So Joey, when I saw this video, I’m not saying that I felt like a car guy, but I certainly felt a whole lot more educated and informed. And I felt like I had the peace of mind that they checked everything over and I could get in my car and drive on the snowy icy roads home, and that I was going to be safe. And I thought that was fantastic.

Joey Coleman (07:55):
Well, I also thought my goodness, I’ve learned a thing or two about the underside of Dan’s car and Dan takes really good care of his vehicle. Yeah. I loved this for so many ways. And I actually like, and we’ll we’ll post the video on the show notes page at ExperienceThisShow.com, but I actually liked listening to just the audio because with the narration alone, you get an education, you get some insight as to what’s going on and what came up for me to be completely candid. When, when you shared this video, Dan, is that why doesn’t every mechanic do this? I’ve actually spoken to an association of auto mechanic repair shop owners, which yes, it exists. And what was fascinating is we were talking about using video and no one was using video in any capacity. And here’s your mechanic. Who’s not only using video to create connection, which we’ve talked about many times. This is such a great thing, but it’s using video to do education. It’s highly personalized and customized. And I don’t know if I was anywhere in the Chicago land region and I had a BMW. I would want to go to this place if nothing else, because they’re creating remarkable experiences and proving their work, showing, you know, bringing sight to the blind transaction as one might say,

Dan Gingiss (09:21):
Well, exactly. And that’s, I think the importance and what we are, we all need to think about in terms of using video in customer experiences. Because as you said, there’s blind transactions all over the place. There’s scary for the consumer. Nobody wants to be taken advantage of or to lose money. And so, but we often just don’t know. And yeah, I think this should be true of pretty much every industry in which you have to trust. Right? And, uh, and we’re seeing stuff in the dental industry too, with this 3d imaging where dentists can now show you a 3d image of your tooth and, and at least better than kind of the old x-ray where they’re like, you know, “You see there, you’ve got all of this kind of like…

Joey Coleman (10:02):
Where’s the funny bone? Can you read that one?

Dan Gingiss (10:08):
Um, but you know, this actually got me thinking Joey, about our very first ever book report on Experience This, it was Episode 4, Season 1. Do you remember who that was?

Joey Coleman (10:20):
Oh, geez. You’re going to call me out here?

Dan Gingiss (10:22):
Videos the hint – video.

Joey Coleman (10:25):
Video killed the radio star. Uh, I do I’m…

Dan Gingiss (10:29):
If you said Marcus Sheridan’s book, “They Ask, You Answer”

Joey Coleman (10:40):
His new book is The Video Sale. Yes. The Visual Sale. Yes.

Dan Gingiss (10:45):
Actually we’ve done both of his books. That’s right. We started with, They Ask, You Answer and his new book is The Visual Sale. But point is Marcus talks about using video in sales and marketing, and he’s an inbound marketing expert, but there’s no reason why we can’t use video. Once people become customers. And you know, it helps people through these blind transactions and allows them to feel confident in where they’re going. And like you said, I am always going to bring my car back to this dealership. I know, I know there’s probably a mechanic down the street. That’s a little bit less expensive, but I like how I’m treated there. I like the omelets. I like the waiting room. And I like being able to see underneath my car and understand something about it.

Joey Coleman (11:30):
I love that some people might want it might think, geez Joey is so bougie with his bull kelp salt. But you, with your omelets, while you get an oil change, you are definitely the more high maintenance of the two [inaudible]. I’m just jealous. I wish omelets were on the menu when I was getting an oil change. You know, I will say the only gentle suggestion I would give for this video, I wish it would have started with the camera, which I presume that person is filming, with their cell phone, I mean, the way the video looks, I would have loved it. If the camera would have started with a selfie shot of the technician, “Hey, I’m Jerry. And today I have the pleasure of working on your car. Mr. Gingiss let me show you a few things…” And then turn the camera around. It adds an extra layer of humanization. And when we think about this blend between remarkable customer experience and remarkable employee experience at the end of the day, what I think we’re striving for is remarkable human experiences. The experiences that allow us to connect personally, that allow our humanity to be part of the conversation. And one of the great ways to do that is to let your customers see your employees and let your employees be seen. Now, some employees may not be super excited about that in the beginning, but I promise that as you do it more and more, they will feel more connected and engaged with the customers as well.

Dan Gingiss (13:00):
Oh, absolutely. I could see people coming into this place and requesting Jerry is their mechanic. Now they know him. So love it. And Hey, if you have any questions regarding the video, please contact your service advisor and not Dan because he doesn’t understand all of it, but he sure felt better about getting this car fixed at Fields BMD.

Joey Coleman (13:23):
We’re excited to give you an overview of an important book you should know about as well as share some of our favorite passages as part of our next Book Report.

Dan Gingiss (13:35):
Today’s Book Report is about “Winning Digital Customers: The Antidote to Irrelevance” by Howard Tiersky with a foreword, by the way, by Michelle McKenna, who is interestingly the CIO of the NFL.

Joey Coleman (13:51):
That’s gotta be a cool gig. The CIO of the NFL? I love it. I love it. I’m not a huge NFL fan, but I have to imagine that’s a fascinating, uh, gig.

Dan Gingiss (14:02):
Well, I am a big football fan and I, I definitely think it is. So I got a chance to talk with Howard Tiersky and fascinating guy, uh, with a fascinating background. And I really, really liked this book. And as you know, as well, Joey, when he sent us copies of it, he sent it in a customized box that arrived and like the box had the cover of the book on it in printed.

Joey Coleman (14:30):
I was going to say, I loved this book before I opened the book.

Dan Gingiss (14:35):
Totally.

Joey Coleman (14:35):
Right. Because the packaging and you know, that age old phrase, don’t judge a book by its cover. Other reason why it’s an age old phrase is because people do judge books by their cover all the time. And the idea of the package that he sent the book to us in coming and looking beautiful and having messaging on it and the book cover on it. Oh, I too was intrigued before I even cracked the spine of the book and started reading.

Dan Gingiss (14:58):
And when you did crack the spine of the book, it’s a great book. And I think it’s so important that we’re talking about digital experience, especially now in 2021, when 2020 caused a lot of customers to have to go digital. And maybe even the unwilling ones, everybody went digital because you kind of had to in so many different industries. And so digital was big before it’s now an absolutely required part of the business. So as always, we asked Howard to give us an overview of his book and Here he is:

Howard Tiersky (15:32):
Hi, this is Howard Tiersky author of the wall street journal bestselling book, Winning Digital Customers: The Antidote to Irrelevance. Now who should read this book? Well, I’ll tell you, I wrote this book with the executive at a large enterprise in mind, who’s responsible in some way for driving the digital success of a legacy brand, which is to say someone could be in marketing. Someone in technology, someone in operations could even be a CEO, a CFO, chief marketing officer, somebody who has responsibility for driving digital though. In reality, what I found is I’ve talked to so many people who’ve read the book and been applying. It is that it’s applicable. First of all, to really anybody who has a responsibility associated with driving customer behavior at a company. And second of all, I’ve discovered that small businesses and medium-sized businesses are applying the principles of this book really just as effectively as large enterprises. My experience is mostly working with our enterprises, but what I’ve heard from companies at a variety of sizes is that while my examples in the book are largely focused on large enterprises, frankly, the techniques and practices described in the book are applicable at businesses of any size. So I would encourage anybody who’s interested in the topic of how a company could more effectively serve its customers and especially more effectively adapt today to today’s increasingly digital customers. I would encourage anyone like that to pick up a copy of winning digital customers or read the free chapter, which is available online at: wdc.ht/freechapter.

Joey Coleman (17:06):
Oh, there are a couple of things I love about this, Dan you’re right. Not only is digital more relevant today than ever before, but I love the way Howard kind of calls out this distinction that I think so many readers and people that are working on their businesses think about they’re like, well, but that’s a big business. I run a small business or that’s easy for a small business to do. You don’t understand. We have a large enterprise folks. These are fictions in your mind in the same way that the difference between B2B and B2C a lot of companies make that out as a huge difference. No, it’s, HDH, it’s humans to humans. I think at the end of the day, what I love about this and about Howard’s message is yes, a lot of the case studies in the examples in the book are from larger enterprise companies, but the applicability to anyone who’s interested in the topic of increasing the digital experience for their customers permeates the entire book. So this book is just chock full of fun passages. Let’s let Howard, the wonderful author, go first with his favorite passage:

Howard Tiersky (18:19):
You have a problem. If you are trying to make a legacy brand successful in today’s digital world, you got a problem, but this book is going to tell you exactly what to do about it. My seven-year-old son, Joseph likes to text our family group chat with news stories that he thinks we need to know about such as the recent sightings of giant squids off the coast of Japan. One evening last year, my phone dinged with a group text from Joseph sharing the announcement that very soon every single Toys”R”Us in America would be closing. I was well aware of the problems that the company faced. In fact, Toys”R”Us executives had recently visited our offices to talk about bringing my firm in to help improve their customer experience. But time just ran out. I was disappointed that I wasn’t going to be consulting on a Toys”R”Us turnaround, but little Joe’s text prompted me to imagine how truly devastated I would have been had Toys”R”Us disappeared. When I was his age. I figured I should probably check in. I headed downstairs and approached Joe, who was still at the kitchen computer. I gently asked how he was feeling about the news of the chain’s closure. He thought for a second and then answered with a cheerful shrug. I don’t care seeing my surprise reaction. He gestured back at the screen and reassured me, dad, don’t worry. We can just order whatever we need from Amazon. Some say Toys”R”Us went under because they had too much leverage debt. And it’s true. That was a genuine problem. Others say that downloadable video games reduce the demand for physical toys and they have a bit, but Toys”R”Us died from something more profound, a lack of love. They just no longer mattered as they once did. If seven year old boys don’t care whether your toy store stays or goes, you’re done for. At Joe’s age I did love Toys”R”Us. I also loved my Kodak camera with its flashbulbs speed racer by Timex digital, watch my Atari and I hop a few decades later in life. I loved Borders Bookstores, Melrose Place, and my Blackberry. Today I love my Mac, Google slides, Alexa, and Game of Thrones. And I’m back to loving. iHOP again. How about you? What do you love Disney World? Chipotle, Fortnite, LuluLemon, Snapchat. More importantly, do your customers love your business? This book is a blueprint for earning love from today’s customers who I like to call digital customers. And it’s a treatise on the idea that customer love is the single most important factor in the success of your business.

Dan Gingiss (21:18):
Aww – I love that he talked about Toys”R”Us, cause I use this as an example too. I mean, man, when Toys”R”Us went out of business, it looked exactly like the store from when I was a kid.

Joey Coleman (21:30):
So true! And I was a big fan of Toys”R”Us, like I remember, you know, going to the mall with my parents and begging to be able to go in the Toys”R”Us like begging sure. When you couldn’t just go to Amazon or, or have a digital experience back when we were kids, when the competition for Toys”R”Us was the Sears catalog coming to your house like Toys”R”Us was the real deal. A whole store just filled with toys. Oh my gosh. Yes. It was definitely a sad moment. You know, absolutely. We wax nostalgic for Toys”R”Us, but my favorite passage was about some other brands that I’ve actually got a fair amount of experience with. Here’s the passage from the book:

Joey Coleman (22:16):
Uber eliminates the inconvenience of taking 30 seconds to pay the driver. When you arrive at your destination, Netflix auto starts the next episode of stranger things. So you can binge watch for hours without lifting a finger. Alexa will check your Amazon package delivery status. If you just ask it three words, where’s my stuff. No doubt. They are working on getting that down to one. Digital leaders, obsess over removing every little bit of unnecessary effort that they possibly can.

Dan Gingiss (22:48):
I loved this too. And, and in that same section, he referred to this idea as hyper convenience. And he did credit his friend who was, uh, Avis and Budget Rentacars. But I love the concept of finding a way to reduce the number of steps everywhere you can go. And as we’ve said on this show before, and as I’ve said, many times on stages, this is what I did at Discover Card. When we won the JD Power award for the first time. And we finally took it away from American Express, which of course is an amazing customer experience company. We took a look at our web and mobile digital experiences, and we removed every barrier. We could find hundreds of them, little tiny things that annoyed people, and they complained about it. And we got rid of all of them. And there’s definitely some debate in the CX world about whether you should be getting rid of pain points or creating new experiences. I think you need to do both. And this is a terrific example also of, uh, of how you do that. Now I picked a, a little bit of a longer quote and I want to set this up because I learned something here and was absolutely fascinated. So it turns out that another company that we put in the same category as Toys”R”Us is Blockbuster. R.I.P. Blockbuster spent a lot of time there as a kid. And it turns out that Howard and his consulting team were actually consultants to the leaders of Blockbuster when a little company called Netflix came onto the scene.

Joey Coleman (24:20):
He’s been on the front lines of like a lot of these really pivotal times in big brand life. I mean, he’s the guy, right? He’s been there, done that, got the t-shirt!

Dan Gingiss (24:27):
And he actually said one of his biggest regrets was not successfully convincing Blockbuster management to listen to them because they were providing them with good advice. So let me read:

Dan Gingiss (24:40):
They certainly weren’t clueless. I can tell you that there were many super smart people there. We collaborated with them on a vision that in many ways looks a lot like Netflix today. Streaming services, episodic television with great navigation multi-screen devices. In those days, Netflix was exclusively in the DVD by mail business. Blockbuster was much larger with more money, more customers, more Hollywood relationships, and just about every advantage, but one – they loved, who they already were. As an example of this let’s drill into one of the more profound barriers that kept them from committing to the bold digital vision that they paid us to develop. What was it? Candy. At its peak when blockbuster had 9,000 plus stores, those stores rented a lot of videos, but they also sold a lot of M&Ms, Skittles, and giant Kit-Kats. It was becoming harder to make a significant profit renting DVDs, especially after they stopped charging late fees, because the studios negotiated a fair chunk of the rental price for themselves. But the margin on candy, as well as microwaveable popcorn buckets was huge. Our proposed digital vision faced significant resistance from executives who were perfectly willing to believe that customers would stream video to their homes, but repeatedly pointed out you can’t stream candy. How could the company be successful without candy? It seems to be core to their business model and that mindset made it insurmountable side note. I reviewed Netflix his most recent annual report and still to this date, $0 from the sale of candy. So I guess it was surmountable after all!

Joey Coleman (26:22):
So true. Oh my gosh. Fantastic, fantastic story! You know, there was one, I mean the whole story is beautiful, but there was one sentence that I felt when I was reading it, uh, reached out and grabbed me by the shoulders and shook me.

Dan Gingiss (26:36):
I know which one it is!

Joey Coleman (26:36):
Let’s see, it’s where they say “they loved who they already were.”

Dan Gingiss (26:43):
Yep.

Joey Coleman (26:43):
How many businesses are so caught up in the identity of who they are today, that they are going to be a footnote in history tomorrow? Like I think there is an incredibly valuable exercise for everyone listening, get your team together, get your smartest people in your organization together and sit down and say, if tomorrow we were prohibited from making money, the way we currently do from our number one way that we make money, we weren’t allowed to do it for whatever reason. You know, a law was passed, you know, the supply chain blew up, whatever it is, we have to take that off the table. What do we need to do? I feel like if you’re not regularly and by regularly, I’m thinking at least once a year asking yourself what are the things that we are so entrenched in believing to be true, that you’re not, you know, questioning that and thinking through strategically how you would roll with that. You’re done for, and you know, frankly, the last year has shown a lot of businesses that reality. You know, Dan, you and I both pre COVID a significant part of our life was spent on airplanes. A significant part of our life was spent traveling around. And if we were so in love with who we were in the past, we wouldn’t have been able to be who we are today. So long story short, go check out Winning Digital Customers. It’s a fantastic book. You’re going to want to pick up a copy of this Howard Tiersky, it’s just full of stories and ideas and things that are going to make it so that you can connect more digitally with the customers that you have.

Joey Coleman (28:31):
Almost everyone has interacted with chatbots, but all too often, it’s been a bad experience. In MythBusters – presented by Solvvy – we explore a common myth about CX chatbots and see how the right technology can create a positive experience, every time.

Dan Gingiss (28:57):
Today’s myth about chatbots? All chatbots pretend to be a real person. And usually don’t do that. Great. A job of pretending, for example, you start talking to a support agent named Mary on a website or app. You’re having a great experience close to finding an answer. And then you’re struck with the dreaded, sorry, I don’t understand you. Which is a phrase that no human has ever said in the history of mankind. Did you know that in one study over 50% of individuals said that they were disturbed when they realized they were chatting with a robot and not a real person?

Joey Coleman (29:34):
Understandably so, I mean, the reality is that modern chat bots don’t need to hide behind a persona. While still Being conversational. Leading chatbots today are now able to provide next level customer experiences without having to pretend to be a real person. In fact, most people find these experiences more authentic than getting stuck, chatting with a robot named Mary who doesn’t understand you. Plus it won’t feel awkward in the event that you do start a live chat with an actual real person.

Dan Gingiss (30:06):
Well, I am glad for one that the next generation of chat bots are comfortable in their own skin joint because it’s kind of afraid we were going to have another Lil Miquela situation here.

Joey Coleman (30:20):
Callback! That was nice!

Dan Gingiss (30:21):
But hey, these guys are robots and they’re proud of it.

Joey Coleman (30:25):
That’s another Myth Busted thanks to our friends at Solvvy – the Next Gen Chatbot.

Joey Coleman (30:33):
Sometimes a remarkable experience deserves deeper investigation. We dive into the nitty gritty of customer interactions and dissect how and why they happen. Join us while we’re Dissecting the Experience.

Dan Gingiss (30:51):
Joey and I recently received a terrific voicemail on our website.

Joey Coleman (30:59):
Oh, we so loved this one. It’s so nice. We love hearing from our listeners!

Dan Gingiss (31:02):
We do. And this one in particular was amazing. Her name is Robin Murphy and she’s the owner of Maid Brigade a franchise in that covers a number of counties, Westchester, Fairfield, Rockland, and Putnam counties in New York and Connecticut. Now, before we get to Maid bBrigade, when Robin sent us this voicemail, of course, cause it’s what Joey and I do. We responded to her over email. We started communicating and it turns out she loves the podcast and she left us the voicemail because she was sad that we are on our hiatus Joey and was waiting for us to come back.

Joey Coleman (31:37):
And we were like, Oh my gosh, they are listening. It’s so kind. We love it. Thanks for letting us be on hiatus and letting us know that we were missed while we were on hiatus.

Dan Gingiss (31:47):
Yes – and then Robin was also super kind enough to leave us a positive review on iTunes. And I’m going to read that in a second. But back to Maid Brigade. Maid Brigade is known for its commitment to best practices. And it is the only local company in this area that is green, clean certified. Also Robin and her husband are former franchise of the year winners in the maid brigade franchise system.

Joey Coleman (32:13):
No surprise there once you get to know Robin!

Dan Gingiss (32:15):
Yeah, exactly. They know what they’re doing, but let’s get to this iTunes review. She wrote, “I’ve been listening to the experience this podcast for six months now. And I look forward to when it shows up as a new episode, Tuesday mornings as a small business owner, I understand the value of great clients and my learning from Joey and Dan has been benefiting every aspect of my business, not just a relationship with our clients, but also our employees, and even our vendors, all important to us.

Joey Coleman (32:44):
Woo hoo! Oh, I love it. Thank you Robin. For the review, we love getting reviews on iTunes as it really helps draws new listeners to our show, but you know what? I love even more about the review. Dan. I love that Robin is getting benefit. Not only in terms of her customer experiences, but with her employee experience and her vendor experience. You know, increasingly so many of our conversations are about the human experience. I absolutely love this. So Robin, you let us know that we were, uh, we were providing some value and you provided some lovely value to us. We so appreciate it.

Dan Gingiss (33:17):
Well, as it turns out, Joey, Robin, isn’t just a fan of the show. She is also a big fan of your book. Never lose a customer again.

Joey Coleman (33:27):
Oh, so sweet.

Dan Gingiss (33:28):
Best of all, she has actually implemented some amazing experiences for her customers. See Joey’s book is practical. Guys. You can do it too. Let’s hear Robin. Tell us a little bit about what she’s been doing at may brigade.

Robin Murphy – Maid Brigade (33:45):
Hi Dan and Joey. This is Robin Murphy of Maid Brigade. We are a home cleaning company dedicated to helping people be home. Happy housecleaning is considered a commodity. We get it. It’s easy to find someone who can clean your home for a lot less money than we will, which is why we make sure to give our clients and experience they aren’t going to get from anyone else. Of course, it includes our excellent cleaning by fantastic staff. But it’s more than just that we send reminder emails, texts when we’re on the way check-ins after the service handwritten, thank you cards. We do what we say we’re going to do. And if we fall short, Hey, it’s not often, but it happens. We make sure to make things right, no matter what. And while we love all of our customers, those clients who use us on a recurring basis are very special. So we take even better care of them. We have a customer retention program where among other things, we send them specially curated gifts, which promote home happiness and show our appreciation based on the thank yous we receive and especially our very low customer cancellation rate. We know that they appreciate us back. Another special thing we give our clients is free cleaning solutions to use in between our visits. They’re the best cleaning products, people, pet, and earth safe and unrivaled by brands you buy in stores. On our first visit, we give our clients a kit and we refill the bottles every time we’re back. It’s free cleaning products for life so long as they use may brigade. I also want to mention what we do for clients who spread the word, refers to their friends and who posts reviews about us on social media reviews are invaluable gifts to us. They are seen by thousands of people every month, looking for someone to do what we do and a great review attract great new clients. So to those who post reviews, we send a special bottle of beautifully packaged olive oil that they’ll enjoy for a while. And we hope that they’ll think of us when they do. At Maid Brigade we are very customer centric and love putting together initiatives that give our clients what they’ve never expect from their main service and that they won’t get from anybody else, but Maid Brigade.

Joey Coleman (35:47):
Dan, I will say, well, forgive me. Let me say as an author. And I know you’ve had this experience many, many times before. Nothing makes you happier as an author than to find out that someone got your book, read your book, implemented the ideas and had great success from it. I mean, it is why the majority of authors, especially in the business space write books, and this was such a lovely audio for Robin share. Robin and I in the interest of full disclosure had never had any interactions before this. I didn’t even know about this recording. She was talking to Dan about it. So I just got to hear it in preparation for our episode today. And it just thrills me to see so many things that they have done and implemented in their business.

Dan Gingiss (36:35):
Yeah. I mean, definitely they read your book. They’ve been listening to the show and they’ve been implementing, which is awesome and let’s face it. I think she actually pointed this out. People don’t have particularly high expectations of the cleaning crew that comes to their house. And so as with many industries, experience is a way that you can stand out and exceed expectations with your customers. And that’s exactly what Robin is doing at Maid bBrigade. Now she gave some examples in her audio, but she also emailed us some other examples that I wanted to chat about because man, any one of these things would make Maid Brigade stand out to me as a company, but yet they’re doing all of them. So besides from that, you know, free cleaning products for life, they also offer a home happy hour where after 10 visits, they’ll take care of an extra task, like cleaning the refrigerator or sweeping the garage at no charge, which I love because that builds loyalty. Obviously, if I’ve stayed for 10 visits, now I’m staying for another 10 because I know my refrigerator can wait, but I mean, it’s a great little reward, their customers for staying with them. And it really doesn’t cost them a whole lot. Maybe it costs a few extra minutes for a crew to be there, but the impact is huge.

Joey Coleman (38:05):
Absolutely. And you know, the, one of my favorites that Robin shared, which ties to this one is that through their analytics, they have found that if they can keep a client for at least eight visits, that client will usually stay for, wait for it over 40 visits. So if they can get past eight, they’ll get to 40. Now friends, I get that you may not be in the maid business, but when you can figure out what your “keep them until” line is in your business, you know, Robyn figured it out that it’s eight visits. And then you see the dramatic impact that the retention in the loyalty has. It makes focusing on those initial visits that much more important. And what I think is interesting is eight visits. You figure the average cleaning crew is coming twice a month. Huh? Let’s see, four months. Oh that, Oh, what would that be? Just right around the hundred day mark, you know, just a little bit past the a hundred day Mark, the first hundred days really matter. So I love that they do this. And they’re specifically doing handwritten cards and gift certificates that are coming in in the first eight visits. They’re showering with the customers with love in those first few visits, because they know that that’s a foundation to build long-term loyalty from.

Dan Gingiss (39:26):
For sure. And the other thing that they do is they will also send a gift when they mess something up. And by the way, those were hers words, mess something up and I’m like, Oh, that’s funny. I like that. But Hey, when they, she did say, Hey, stuff happens sometimes and they immediately take ownership of it and they send some sort of gift. And her belief is that that gesture lessons, whatever problem was caused. And I think it certainly does. Now look, they break a fine vase where thousands of dollars, it’s probably not going to fix the vase, but I think we all know that mistakes happen. We all know that no business is perfect, but taking that ownership, not hiding behind it, not trying to sweep it under the rug…

Joey Coleman (40:10):
Bah dumb da!

Dan Gingiss (40:12):
He did that. Didn’t he, but actually coming out in front of it and apologizing and, and sending the client a gift is such a great idea because we’ve all seen those stats. That one break in the customer experience can cause someone to leave, but not if you do that.

Joey Coleman (40:29):
Yeah. It’s, it’s just a beautiful deposit in the karmic bank account that allows you to keep that customer, you know, the last one that Robin shared in her email to us, uh, which I think interestingly enough, ties back to the conversation we were having about Howard’s book and kind of this balance between big companies and little companies. You know, as we mentioned, Maid Brigade is part of a franchise. And while they certainly have their franchise website, they’re in the process, that is Robin and her husband, of putting together their own website that is based on, wait for it. Another callback here, our good buddy Marcus Sheridan’s book, They Ask You Answer, where they take commonly asked questions by their customers about their cleaning services, about when to clean, how to clean, et cetera, et cetera, and put them on the website so that they’re continuing to provide content and value for people in that digital experience. So look, this, this one’s fun. We’re getting to connect a lot of different pieces of the conversation here. And as we often talk about on the Experience This! Show, it’s not just one thing that creates a remarkable experience. It’s the blending of all the touch points, all the interactions to create the overall feeling that your customers and your employees and your vendors have when they think about you and your brand.

Dan Gingiss (41:48):
Well, Robin Murphy of Maid Brigade, I’m sorry. I used to live in Fairfield County for real. I don’t anymore, but yes, I would move just to have your company service my home. And thank you so much for listening to the show for engaging with us and hey, other listeners, you see what happens when you just send us an email or leave us a review. Next thing you know, we might be featuring your company on a future episode.

Joey Coleman (42:19):
Thanks for joining us for another episode of Experience This! You are the best listener ever!

Dan Gingiss (42:25):
And since you listened to the whole show…

Joey Coleman (42:28):
Yay you!

Dan Gingiss (42:29):
We’re curious, was there a specific part of this episode that you enjoyed the most? If so, it would mean the world to us if you could share it with a coworker, a friend or someone that just loves listening to podcasts.

Joey Coleman (42:39):
And while you’re in the sharing mood, if you felt inclined to jump over to iTunes or wherever you find your podcasts and write us a review, we would so appreciate it. And when you do, don’t forget to let us know as we might have a little surprise for you.

Dan Gingiss (42:55):
Thanks again for your time and we’ll see you next week for more.

Joey Coleman (42:59):
Experience.

Dan Gingiss (42:59):
This!

Episode 119 – Using the Power of Nostalgia to Build Customer Connection

Join us as we discuss why your branding may spoil the experience, how to use nostalgia in unexpected ways, and what your culture says about your customer experience.

Packaging, Listening, and Interviewing – Oh My!

Host Contact Information

Email Dan: Dan@dangingiss.com

Tweet Dan Gingiss: @DGingiss

Email Joey: JoeyC@JoeyColeman.com

DanGingiss.com

JoeyColeman.com

Subscribe to Experience This on Apple Podcasts

Learn more about our Season 7 Partners – Solvvy – The NextGen Chatbot

Episode Transcript

Download an unedited transcript of Episode 119 here or read it below:

Joey Coleman (00:05):
Welcome to Experience This!

Dan Gingiss (00:08):
The podcast that celebrates remarkable customer experiences and inspires you to stand out from the competition by wowing your customers.

Joey Coleman (00:17):
Each episode, we bring you a healthy dose of inspiring stories, funny interactions, and practical takeaways. Marketing and customer experience thought leader, Dan Gingiss…

Dan Gingiss (00:30):
shares the mic with customer retention and employee experience expert, Joey Coleman, helping you to get people talking about your business.

Joey Coleman (00:40):
So get ready, because it’s time to Experience This!

Joey Coleman (00:49):
Get ready, for another episode of the Experience This! Show.

Dan Gingiss (00:54):
Join us as we discuss: why your branding may spoil the experience, how to use nostalgia in unexpected ways, and what your culture says about your customer experience.

Joey Coleman (01:07):
Packaging, Listening, and Interviewing – Oh my!

Joey Coleman (01:13):
We love telling stories and sharing key insights you can implement or avoid based on our experiences. Can you believe that This Just Happened?!

Joey Coleman (01:28):
Welcome back to Season Seven. Woo! We are so excited to be here with you. You know, who would have thunk back when we started out with Episode 1 that we would be coming to you in Episode 119 seven seasons later?! We are so pumped and excited for this season. We’ve got some new segments, we’ve got plenty of new stories, some new features for you to get more involved with the show. Woo! Lot to cover, but we’re going to get to that… Before we get started though, Dan, how was your holiday break brother?

Dan Gingiss (01:59):
Well, thanks for asking Joey and great to hear your voice again. It’s been a while since I’ve heard that melodic voice and great holiday season, as you may or may not know my birthday is on Christmas as well. So all the fun we had a great time and, you know, during the break, you and I also got to chat with our brand new partner for this season, Solvvy – The Next Generation Chatbot… And I’m really excited about this because I’ll be honest, I started off as a skeptic on chatbots and having talked with Solvvy, I’m now much more excited about chat bots because I understand them better and I understand what they can and can’t do. And that’s some of what we’re going to share with you, the audience during the season. And I think what will be a really cool segment,

Joey Coleman (02:49):
Absolutely super excited for these Solvvy conversations. You know, my holiday was a lot of fun as well. We’re settling in here in our new house in Iowa, which I’ll honest is a bit snow year and a good bit colder than it wasn’t Colorado, but we had a great Christmas with less people than usual. Like I’m sure with a lot of our listeners had that same experience. Yay, thanks COVID! But still had a lovely time. Although I must confess Dan, I had a bit of a customer experience snafu and I wanted to start things off on the show talking about it today.

Dan Gingiss (03:22):
Oh boy. So not everything was a holly jolly Christmas.

Joey Coleman (03:26):
No, no, it was not. And uh, to be honest, this is something we’ve talked about before on the show, but this time, this scenario showed up in a different way. So let me explain my incredible wife, Berit loves gifts and presents. If you were to look at the book, The Five Love Languages by Gary Chapman and put her through the test, which we’ve done many a times, both. She and I have taken that test. She scores 12 out of 12 on gifts and presents. So I tried to surprise her with gifts and presents whenever I get the chance. And she’s very health conscious and we’re here in the Midwest now, and we’ve talked about farming and we have a family farm and I decided to order her an indoor lettuce farm. So it’s basically a vertical garden with grow lights that lets you grow more produce at home, which is better for the environment. It helps keep our family healthy too. And I was super excited about this gift and really wanted to surprise her because she loves surprises, especially when it comes to Christmas, but I’d never ordered for this company before and kind of didn’t know what to expect, but I signed up to receive the delivery alerts so I could make sure to sneak the box into the house. Cause I knew it was going to be a big box before she saw it.

Dan Gingiss (04:41):
Oh, I think I know where this is going,

Joey Coleman (04:44):
Dan. I think you may be correct. Well, here’s the scoop. So we’re coming up towards Christmas. We’re about two weeks out. I receive a message that the package was scheduled to be delivered on a Friday. I’m feeling good. We’re going to have plenty of time to wrap for Christmas, but on Wednesday morning, keep in mind. It’s supposed to be delivered on Friday. I come out to the kitchen to find Berit with kind of a guilty look on her face. Let me guess she had seen the present. Dan, not only had she seen the present, but the company who shall remain nameless here because it’s not really there. Now it’s debatable as to whether they’re to blame for this, but I just hope people will think differently after listening this segment – the company had written their name in huge letters all over all three of the large boxes and it was painfully obvious that this was a home-based lettuce growing kit, given the branding.

Dan Gingiss (05:42):
I have to laugh twice. I think I’ve laughed. Actually. Number one is I I’m still back at the whole concept of a lettuce farm, which I think is outstanding. But if you asked me, “Hey Dan, take a guess what we’re going to talk about in the first episode of 2021 it’s not what it’s not going to be. What I came up with

Joey Coleman (05:59):
And knowing you’re a big produce guy, Dan, I got to say you can grow more than lettuce. Okay. But let’s just say lettuce was the intention, the brand, there were some challenges.

Dan Gingiss (06:10):
All right, got you. Yep. And the other thing though that I was laughing about was you actually had the opposite experience a few years ago, I believe with a LEGO box.

Joey Coleman (06:19):
Yes, exactly. I regularly order from Lego and they go out of their way to ship their boxes blind – that is they ship them without any branding or labeling. Even the return address is impossible to decipher because they know that their products are often given as gifts.

Dan Gingiss (06:37):
I think that was Episode 56 of Season Three.

Joey Coleman (06:42):
Our loyal listeners will continue to be impressed with your rain man, esque knowledge of our back catalog of episodes. Dan, I guarantee. But yes, the fact that LEGO shipped the boxes blind way back in season three. And by the way, they still do it today because LEGO was another package that arrived at our house this Christmas and was a big hit. It shows that LEGO has thought through the trade-offs between promoting their brand and ruining the surprise when the package is delivered. Something that I wish this in-house, indoor, vertical farm would have done.

Dan Gingiss (07:16):
You know, I think this is interesting because I’m not so sure that the branding on the boxes does a whole lot. I mean, if you think about it, depending on the community that you live in, it might be sitting at someone’s doorstep that, you know, if you have any length of a driveway at all, you can’t see from the street. And so unless you’re trying to convince the mailman or mailwoman to, to purchase from your company, like, I don’t think this is one of these cases where millions of people are seeing it. Now

Joey Coleman (07:45):
It’s all about getting ups and FedEx drivers to buy more of your product!

Dan Gingiss (07:49):
It could be, I mean, I’m thinking two things, one, obviously the ubiquitous Amazon box, which you see a thousand times a day and almost any neighborhood, you know, that might be an exception. But I also, I wonder whether you know this, Joey, do you know that for years you were not allowed to have any branding on anything on any box shipped through the postal service. And that actually has changed. I have a feeling that Amazon ended up changing that, but for a while, if you, even, if you tried to reuse the box, for example, you had to cover up all the branding because the advertising wasn’t allowed.

Joey Coleman (08:22):
Well, I don’t exactly remember that whether it was allowed or not, I’ll defer to your expertise on this Dan. But I do agree with you that there’s kind of this healthy mix. And I know for example, Apple intentionally doesn’t say Apple on the box because they don’t want people stealing the boxes. Right? So I, and I also get that there’s this fine line between if your packaging also shows up in a retail environment, you might want to have a boxed in a certain way because it’s going to sit in a store and be visible. And it kind of almost becomes an in-store advertisement. But this company to my knowledge only sells online. And I just, I, you know, I’ll admit I was a little bit bummed that the surprise was given up. Not because of me, but because of the packaging of the box. So what could this company have done differently? Well, I’m not saying that branding, your packaging is bad. In fact, when done properly, it’s a great way to market and promote your offerings. However, if you think there is a chance that someone might purchase your product as a gift, especially around the holiday season, it would be a great experience to let purchasers choose their delivery packaging. Or if that’s too logistically complicated, at least let them know that the package will be arriving with lots of external branding so they can prepare themselves accordingly. You don’t want to be the brand that ruined Christmas. And there is nothing worse than creating a bad brand experience before the customers even opened the box.

Joey Coleman (09:57):
Just because you have required elements of your business doesn’t mean they need to be, Oh, it’s time to get creative, have some fun and make people sit up and take notice. Get your customers talking when you Make The Required Remarkable.

Joey Coleman (10:17):
I saw an interesting post on Medium recently from Tom Whitwell called “52 things I learned in 2020.” Tom is a managing consultant at Flux in London. And he shared a fascinating list of learnings, including one in particular that stood out to me. Number three on his list, “the hold music you hear when you phone Octopus Energy is personalized to your customer account. It’s a number one record from the year you were 14.

Dan Gingiss (10:44):
Well, first of all, octopus energy could be the best name of any energy company I’ve ever heard.

Joey Coleman (10:49):
It’s an awesome name!

Dan Gingiss (10:50):
but I love the concept of personalized hold music. I mean, we did talk about hold music way back in Season One, Episode 6, when we talked about that one impressed even me, ladies, I’m going to double down and say that we also talked about hold music on our other show, Experience Points – the game show – and Scott McCain was our guests that day. And, uh, we, we showed a couple of different, uh, hold music, examples, but nothing personalized to the year that you were 14 years old.

Joey Coleman (11:22):
This one feels really special. So when I first saw this, I had to learn more. So I checked out the octopus energy website and found some cheeky messaging. And I say cheeky, because they’re over in London that matched their creative hold music. Now this is how their about us page reads on the website. And I quote, “We’re doing energy better for you and for the environment. The energy industry in Britain is ruled by a handful of complacent, dinosaurs, peddling, fossil fuels, pricing, trickery, and poor customer service. In 2016, octopus entered the market to disrupt the status quo with energy that’s good for the planet, good for your wallet, and honestly, good for your soul. Since then, we’ve been picking up 30,000 customers a month on average, and now supply energy to 1.5 million UK homes and counting. To this day, 92% of our customers rate us as “five stars excellent” on Trustpilot. And we’re the only supplier to be recommended by consumer champion, which year after year, after a year, after a year.

Dan Gingiss (12:30):
Okay. Now I get the octopus joke because dinosaurs!

Joey Coleman (12:35):
There’s a lot of fun and games going on.

Dan Gingiss (12:39):
It’s outstanding! Gosh, where to start. You know, also I just love communication. I love words and how we talk to customers. And I do believe that every chance we have to communicate with customers in any channel is an opportunity to create an experience. That’s why we have this whole segment called Required Remarkable because so much of our communication is required and we don’t have to just make it boring. We can make it really interesting. And it seems like a, as they’re saying that what they’re doing is working because their customers love them. And let’s recall people, this is an energy company.

Joey Coleman (13:16):
Yeah. That’s the thing. This is an energy company and 92% of their customers rate them as five stars. Like we could just stop right there. I got to tell you, Dan, I wanted to become a customer of Octopus Energy and figure out how to make that happen – even though they’re based in the UK, because I was so intrigued by this! Well, and then I tracked down this specific page on their website that talks about their hold music and I quote, shut up and hold me at octopus energy, everything we make starts with the customer. So what does that mean for hold music? Well, if we have your birth date on file, we’ll play the song. That was number one when you were 14 years old. Keen to know what your octopus jam is? Just select your birth year below and we’ll let you know, and then you can type in your birth year and it tells you what the song would be. And I love this and think it’s a beautiful example of creating a required remarkable strategy that takes advantage of a nostalgia trend play.

Dan Gingiss (14:14):
Do go on Joey – say more about that…

Joey Coleman (14:17):
Well, I think, you know, as you mentioned earlier, Dan, we talk about this idea that there are required elements of your business, that you have the chance to make remarkable yet most businesses don’t do that. We’ve also talked about in previous episodes, uh, this whole idea of a nostalgia play, especially for folks who are over 30 and as you get older, the numbers that desire for nostalgia increases even more that if you can reach back and grab something from the past and bring it to the present, it gives us warm, fuzzy feelings inside. And I don’t know about you, but at about 14 music really started to play a different role in my life than it had before. And this idea of anchoring into some key songs that were right at that transitional period in life, I think is a great way to take customers of any age and bring them back to some really positive feelings around music.

Dan Gingiss (15:13):
Agreed and nostalgia, I think always plays it’s, it’s personalized in and of itself. We obviously all feel nostalgic about different things, but music is something that brings people together and, you know, the 14, I’m sure some report told them that 14 was the ideal year, but I think you’re right, that you know, that somewhere in your teenage years is where you really start connecting with music. And, and you remember those, those songs and, you know, Joey, I couldn’t help, but notice that you and I have the same birth year. We do. We do. I’m born at the beginning of the year. You’re a little youngster, you’re born more towards the end of the year, but I think it’d be, uh, I wonder if any of our listeners could guess given that you and I were born in 1973, what the number one song was when we were 14?

Mystery Singer (16:05):
Never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down, never gonna run around and desert you!

Joey Coleman (16:14):
Oh goodness. How about that? Who would have thought that two jokers like us would get to have the number one song when we were 14, be the song that is infamous on the internet?!

Dan Gingiss (16:25):
Fantastic. Love it. And it certainly that that song gets me home in every time and singing out loud. So I, I think it would work if I were waiting on, hold on. I also love the fact that I just want to go back to the fact that you said the website started with “Shut up and hold me!” And you know, I mean, I said before about the “I’m On Hold” song, my first experience ever with that song, I literally felt like I didn’t want the conference call to start because I wanted to hear the end of the song and think about how different that is from the feeling you normally have when you’re on hold. And so, yeah, obviously ideally, no one would be on hold ever. But given that, that does seem to be a fact of life playing a song that, you know, the person’s going to be rocking out to is a great idea.

Joey Coleman (17:15):
Absolutely. You know, friends auditing your customer touchpoints and looking for ways to enhance them is always a good idea, but it seems particularly timely at the beginning of a new year. You can get some fast wins. You can instill a sense of creativity and really start things off on the right foot or the right note as one might decide. So take some inspiration from the fine folks at Octopus Energy and go find ways to make the required elements of your business more remarkable.

Joey Coleman (17:50):
Almost everyone has interacted with chatbots, but all too often, it’s been a bad experience. In MythBusters – presented by Solvvy – we explore a common myth about CX chatbots and see how the right technology can create a positive experience, every time.

Joey Coleman (18:17):
Today’s myth about chatbots? Chatbots aren’t smart. Have you ever had the chance to ask a chat bot, something that you think is a very simple question and you get a response like I don’t understand or try asking again, that’s my chatbot robot voice, by the way, this is not only frustrating, but it leaves me feeling like I’m wasting my time. And as a result, I ended up desperately seeking a human.

Dan Gingiss (18:42):
Now while there is a myth that chatbots aren’t smart. The reality is that modern chatbots are intelligent. Chatbots are now using N L P – an abbreviation for natural language processing, which also allows a chat bot to interpret a customer question along with the intent behind it, regardless of how it’s expressed in a chat.

Joey Coleman (19:05):
For example, you might not have received a package that you were expecting, maybe something special you ordered for Christmas. If you were to type in, I haven’t received my package yet, or even more specifically, my indoor lettuce farm is missing modern chatbots like Solvvy interpret the intention you have to track or locate your package. The chatbot then guides the customer to the right place to do this. Fast resolution, a happy customer, no support ticket necessary!

Dan Gingiss (19:34):
Now that sounds like a much better customer experience. It is about time that the technology started to understand what I want. Even if I don’t say it as clearly as I could. We’ll learn more about advances in chat bot and support automation throughout the season.

Joey Coleman (19:50):
That’s another myth busted. Thanks to our friends at Solvvy – the NextGen chatbot.

Joey Coleman (20:00):
Have you ever found yourself saying, “I wonder what Dan and Joey would think about this situation?” Well, guess what? Now you can know, just tag us on social or message us through our website with a customer experience, scenario, a question or anything else you’re curious about, and you’ll get to hear our answers. When you Ask Us Anything.

Joey Coleman (20:27):
We are super excited to introduce a brand new segment this season here in season seven, doing things, new friends called ask us anything.

Dan Gingiss (20:37):
Similar to the famous, ask me anything – or AMA – that started on Reddit in the ask us anything segment of our show. Listeners submit a scenario, question, or topic for Joey and me to discuss, but the topics will all be customer experience related.

Joey Coleman (20:54):
Now, part of the credit for this segment goes to Tony Amante Schepers – the Director of Operations, Customer Success, and Customer Experience at OYO USA. Tony recently wrote an article on LinkedIn about the importance of sharing your company culture as part of your interview process. And he tagged Dan and me to get our thoughts on the subject. Now let’s be honest. Tony’s a great guy. We appreciate him and tagging us always good to tag Dan. First on the socialist friends, he’s the social media expert gets stuff out there on the socials for Dan, if you want to tag me as well, that’s fine too. But long story short, we saw the article and we thought this would be a fun way to have a new segment on the show.

Dan Gingiss (21:36):
Agreed. So it worked Tony! Let’s give you a brief overview of his article. It was called “Four steps to sharing company culture during the interview process and why you need to.” In the article, Tony shares research that the number one reason, someone stays with an employer is culture. And the number one reason, someone leaves an employer is culture. He goes on to define company culture as quote the day-to-day way things get done, how coworkers communicate with each other, how they communicate to the client, how often leadership mingles with, and if they listen to those lower on the totem pole, the frequency in which wins are shared and celebrated company-wide. And the way in which losses are treated as learning moments, not slaps on the hand,” unquote.

Joey Coleman (22:26):
Tony notes that while there is certainly a lot of churn in the marketplace, when it comes to employment right now, quote, “What will keep an employee present once the pandemic and lockdown ends is the employer valuing the hire from day one.” And by “day one,” what Tony means is from the start of the interview process, he believes that quote it’s vital to show how company culture operates, how a business communicates internally to accomplish daily tasks.

Dan Gingiss (22:55):
Tony outlines the four steps to sharing company culture as follows: (1) Get an internal pulse check by surveying employees about how they rate internal communication and then sharing that broadly across the organization and with new hires. (2) Try out new modes of communication videos, social media, et cetera, show the world, the business and the faces behind it.

Joey Coleman (23:20):
Number three, conduct a culture fit interview, giving job candidates, a brief personality test to see if their approach to problem solving will be a good fit for your company culture. And number four, share how teams talk be transparent in the interview process about how employees use things like Slack, Microsoft Teams, email voicemails, happy hours, all hands meetings, et cetera. So now that laid the foundation of Tony’s hypothesis, that culture really matters and that you should show that as part of the interview process, what do you think about this Dan?

Dan Gingiss (23:56):
I love the idea because the culture is one of the things that’s really hard to suss out as an interviewee, right? If you think about it, you’re going in, you’re talking to people, their job is essentially to say nice things about the company. And so if you’re doing your research, you’re probably looking at sites like glass door, or you’re calling somebody who used to work there, or what have you to get the real scoop because the front that companies put on is, you know, might as well be put out by the PR department with no offense to PR departments, because it is always so positive. Right? And then you get there and it’s like, Oh, well, you know, you didn’t tell me this part. I’ll give you a real life example from my career Joey. I know, you know, this one is I signed on to be the head of global social media at McDonald’s and it was not until my first day of work that I learned that in McDonald’s culture, the United States is not part of global. That might’ve been something…

Joey Coleman (24:58):
Such a mind opening experience!

Dan Gingiss (25:00):
Yeah. I mean, I, it might’ve been something that would have been cool to discuss in the interview. It never came up. I didn’t know that the company was divided into domestic and global and that global meant everything, but the U S but man, that was a real eye opener on day one. And I think that, you know, the cultural things, like, I mean, he mentioned Slack. For example, I was at a company, a late stage startup was my first ever exposure to Slack. I fell in love with it. I loved it. My emails were much, I got much fewer emails during the day. It was a great way to communicate. But man, if you’ve never used it before, that might be something that’s scary or

Joey Coleman (25:42):
Or if you have you used it like I have and you didn’t like it… If I found out after I got on the job, that it was a Slack shop that everybody was using Slack, no offense to the great team at Slack and what they’ve built. I would not be super happy about that because it’s like, Oh, on top of fitting in, I need to fit in, in the way that you’re fitting in with the technology tools. And that was the one I really liked. You know, I liked all the examples that Tony gave, but that one in particular I thought was a great way to give people exposure. Like maybe let them see, not only that you use Slack, but what are some of the chats? What are the things that people are saying? I think channels is the phrase that they use in Slack, you know, invite them to your happy hour, invite your interviewees, to come to your happy hour and see are these the kinds of people we want to hang out with.

Dan Gingiss (26:32):
So, by the way, we have a very, the old segment we have not used in a really long time. It might even be in retirement. We’re going to have to pull it out. It’s called “Agree to Disagree!”

Joey Coleman (26:43):
Aww – bringing us back!

Dan Gingiss (26:43):
We’re going to have one about Slack, Joey, because I love Slack. I love it. Yeah. And I think we should have that conversation. So that’ll be a future episode. Thank you, Tony. You are just continuing to contribute to our show. But you’re right. The happy hours, the meetings, even what people, how, how people dress. What’s appropriate and not in terms of, you know, a lot in startup culture, there’s things like ping pong tables and, and snacks and all that sort of thing. And you get used to some of that stuff, but then it’s also, you know, you switched to a more traditional company and that stuff all goes away or things like open seating that’s become that, that pre COVID was becoming so popular. That is something personally that I never particularly enjoyed. I always liked having my own space where I can put a picture frame and you know, my coffee mug and stuff like that. And, and having to just show up and pick a cube every day was very unnerving to me. So I do think those are all things that are very relevant to culture. And then obviously what’s not being said here is that when employees are happy, when they like the culture, when they enjoy going to work every day, that then gets projected onto the customers and customers can see when employees like where they’re working. I mean, I always like to give the example of when you walk into a fast food restaurant and a, and that person behind the counter, it looks like you’re interrupting their otherwise pleasant day by wanting to place an order.

Joey Coleman (28:12):
Yeah – “sorry for interrupting you!”

Dan Gingiss (28:15):
Yeah. That gives you a good sense for what it’s like to work at that company.

Joey Coleman (28:18):
Absolutely. And I think the parallel, some people might be listening to this saying, well, wait a second guys, how does this connect to customer experience? Well, and as we talk about a lot on the show customer experience and employee experience are two sides of the same coin. I think when you think about the culture of your organization, that absolutely spills into your customer interactions, and you want to make sure that a new employee is going to get the fit. They’re going to want to understand how you communicate. I mean, go back to the earlier conversation we had in this episode about Octopus Energy. If you’re a buttoned up straight laced, you know, traditional, conservative, corporate business person, you’re probably not going to fit in well at a place like Octopus Energy. That’s my guess, just based on the language they use on their website. So I think at the end of the day, there’s a real opportunity to preview what it’s going to be like to be an employee as much as possible. Because if we can get folks to understand before they start the job, what the job is really going to be like, there’s a much higher likelihood that it’s going to be successful for everyone, not only the employee, but for the folks that are inviting this new employee in.

Dan Gingiss (29:33):
If you’d like to submit a question, a topic, or a theory about customer experience that you’d like us to discuss as part of our next, ask us anything segment it’s pretty easy. You could just tag us on social media like Tony did or visit ExperienceThisShow.com, go to the contact page and send us a little message with your question. And Hey Tony, we’re going to send you a package of surprise and delight for asking our first question and well, we might do it for the second, third, fourth, fifth, and 20th questions too. We look forward to answering more of your questions throughout this season.

Joey Coleman (30:11):
Thanks for joining us for another episode of Experience This! You are the best listener ever!

Dan Gingiss (30:17):
And since you listened to the whole show…

Joey Coleman (30:19):
Yay you!

Dan Gingiss (30:21):
We’re curious… Was there a specific part of this episode that you enjoyed the most? If so, it would mean the world to us if you could share it with a coworker, a friend, or someone that just loves listening to podcasts!

Joey Coleman (30:31):
And while you’re in the sharing mood, if you felt inclined to jump over to iTunes or wherever you find your podcasts and write us a review, we would so appreciate it. And when you do, don’t forget to let us know as we might have a little surprise for you!

Dan Gingiss (30:47):
Thanks again for your time and we’ll see you next week for more…

Joey Coleman (30:49):
Experience!

Dan Gingiss (30:51):
This!