Join us as we discuss the state of customer experience in 2021, the answers to all of your baking questions, and what we love – and can’t stand – about hiring contractors.
Findings, Flour, and Fixer-Uppers – Oh My!
Referenced in the Show
Host Contact Information
Email Dan: Dan@dangingiss.com
Tweet Dan Gingiss: @DGingiss
Email Joey: JoeyC@JoeyColeman.com
Learn more about our Season 7 Partner – Solvvy – The NextGen Chatbot
Download an unedited transcript of Episode 128 here or read it below:
Joey Coleman (00:05):
Welcome to Experience This!
Dan Gingiss (00:08):
The podcast that celebrates remarkable customer experiences and inspires you to stand out from the competition by wowing your customers.
Joey Coleman (00:17):
Each episode, we bring you a healthy dose of inspiring stories, funny interactions, and practical takeaways. Marketing and customer experience thought leader, Dan Gingiss…
Dan Gingiss (00:30):
shares the mic with customer retention and employee experience expert, Joey Coleman, helping you to get people talking about your business.
Joey Coleman (00:40):
So get ready because it’s time to Experience This!
Dan Gingiss (00:51):
Get ready for another episode of the Experience This! Show!
Joey Coleman (00:55):
Join us as we discuss this state of customer experience in 2021, the answers to all of your baking questions, and what we love, and can’t stand, about hiring contractors.
Dan Gingiss (01:10):
Findings, Flour, and Fixer-Uppers – Oh my!
Joey Coleman (01:21):
Surveys, reports, studies, and reviews. There are some great resources that look at consumer behavior to find emerging trends and established patterns. We dig through the data and bring you the key takeaways in this edition of Inside the Numbers.
Dan Gingiss (01:42):
For this edition of inside the numbers. We’ll be talking about one of my favorite annual reports, The State of CX Trends report by Conversocial.
Joey Coleman (01:51):
I love that you have a favorite annual report! You’re a research-based guy, Dan, I like that!
Dan Gingiss (01:56):
Well, it’s one of my favorites, but this is the eighth edition of this report and I remember highlighting a much earlier edition in my first book, Winning at Social Customer Care, and man have things changed since then! So Conversocial surveyed 2000 consumers in the United States and European Union. Their report, and I’m quoting here, “looks to provide a comprehensive overview of how consumers communicate or at least want to communicate with your brand and allow you to benchmark where your corporate peers are focusing their efforts and budgets.” So let’s dive into some of the key findings of this report. Conversocial found three main trends, and we’re going to walk through them one at a time with some statistics that support them. The first trend was that customers have made the move to messaging, but brands lag behind. So 69% of consumers used a private messaging channel to engage with a brand in the past 12 months. I am sure that is not a huge surprise that it is an 87% increase over 2019. Certainly this was a pandemic driven…
Joey Coleman (03:08):
Pandemic experience, ladies and gentlemen, indeed!
Dan Gingiss (03:12):
41% of consumers used messaging for a customer service issue, 36% to buy a product, and 29% to ask a product related question.
Joey Coleman (03:23):
You know, another interesting data point along the same lines about the trend towards messaging with brands lagging behind is that 71% of the folks surveyed expected brands to offer customer support over messaging channels and 66% expected personalized customer experience over messaging channels. So I think, uh, our day-to-day habits of texting each other and using that type of messaging is spilling into our interactions with brands as well.
Dan Gingiss (03:55):
Absolutely – and now we expect brands to be there for us in that channel. Now it is not often that you can survey 2000 people and have 96% agree on anything.
Joey Coleman (04:06):
Yeah, this is a shock!
Dan Gingiss (04:07):
But in fact, 96% of respondents said that a good customer experience over messaging channels was somewhat or very important to their brand loyalty. 96%. I think I’d like to make sure that all of my client’s businesses have messaging channels don’t you?
Joey Coleman (04:29):
Absolutely. And I think here’s the thing I get as a business owner. And I’m sure you do as well, Dan, that when we think about all the channels we need to be available to our customers on it becomes pretty overwhelming. Especially if you’re in one of the millions of businesses that don’t have a ton of employees. You know, if you have three or four employees, you’re often having a hard enough time taking care of the emails and the phone calls, let alone the text messages, the comments on social, you know, the passenger pigeon flying in with a message for you, whatever it may be. I do think though that the ship has sailed that we need to recognize that it’s not enough to say, yeah, but I’m doing a really good job over on this other platform. We’ve got to make messaging channels like texting a priority in our channel strategies.
Dan Gingiss (05:18):
Absolutely. So I think the key finding in this particular trend is that customers want to communicate with companies over those same familiar channels that they use to talk with their friends and family and folks, if that’s what your customers want, you got to start looking into it if you’re not there yet. And I’ll tell you even some small businesses in my area, we’re going to talk about contractors later in the show, and I’ve been noticing that some of the local contractors that are not more than a couple of employees are using messaging very effectively to tell me that they’re on their way, or that they’re stuck in traffic, to send me quotes, to even send me invoices. And I’m doing a lot more transactions over messaging, which I think is great because it’s the fastest way to get ahold of me and I can get things done really quickly.
Joey Coleman (06:03):
Yeah. I totally agree with you, Dan. I’d be remiss if I didn’t say though, I wonder if that will change over time in the sense that it used to be like, Oh, it’s so great that they’re sending emails and now we’re like, Ugh. And then now it starts to seem like, Oh, it’s so great that they’re doing this over text. Does there, I’m already starting to feel sometimes that my little notifications on my phone of how many unread text messages I’ve had starts to almost feel as scary as the number of unread emails, but maybe that’s just me. We’re a bit, we’re moving in that direction though, but it’s not enough to just be frustrated with it. We got to go do something about it.
Dan Gingiss (06:41):
And now I know why it takes so long for Joey to get back to me on text!
Joey Coleman (06:44):
I have you on a blocked list, my friend – sorry.
Dan Gingiss (06:46):
Joey Coleman (06:47):
You’ve been blocked.
Dan Gingiss (06:48):
Why don’t you, uh, move us to the second trend?
Joey Coleman (06:51):
Well, the second trend, I think in some ways addresses the challenge that I just raised and that is that bots continue to play an increasingly important role in CX delivery. 71% of consumers in the commerce social report said that they would happily use a bot if it improved their customer experience or answered their support question quicker. So for those fast turn things, we have no problem speaking.
Dan Gingiss (07:18):
Right. But then here’s where things got interesting. The survey asked, do you feel comfortable with customer experience interactions and customer support questions being driven by or answered by automation? And interestingly here only 48% of people said yes and 52% said no. So what we can glean from that is the people that are ready and are using messaging and want to use messaging, they’re super excited about it, especially if it improves their experience or, or makes things happen more quickly, but we haven’t yet sold all consumers on this. And I think that was to Joey’s point a little bit about, you know, it took a while to get people sold on email and even digital, and now we’re trying to get them sold on messaging. So the key finding here is that artificial intelligence has been driving success with a lot of companies who are using chatbots, but there is still some consumer mistrust. And you know, we’ve got to get over that by explaining things to people, by letting them experiment with it, by offering other channels as well for people maybe that don’t have smartphones or are just not comfortable using the phone, et cetera.
Joey Coleman (08:31):
Well, I think we probably also need to make sure we’re using some Next Gen chatbots like those by our great friends at Solvvy, because a lot of the chat bot technology is evolving so quickly that brands are using old chat bots and not really taking the full advantage of the automation that’s available to them.
Dan Gingiss (08:50):
Exactly. So the third and final trend from the Conversocial report was brands can still generate brand loyalty, but they must differentiate. And I thought this was really interesting. There were two questions that were asked, uh, that I’ll report on here. The first was how loyal do you feel towards your favorite brands? And 55% of customers said they felt loyal. Another 33% actually said very loyal.
Joey Coleman (09:19):
So that’s 88% for those of you that were told there would be no math on the Experience This Show! 88% feel loyal or very loyal towards their favorite brands. That’s very significant.
Dan Gingiss (09:29):
Yes. And of course this is your favorite brand. And so you’d, you’d hope there’d be loyalty, but still 10% felt indifferent. And 1% said, no loyalty. Now then the, the survey asks, what main characteristics make you feel loyal to your favorite company? And here the answers really got spread out and I think this was worth talking about. 29% said the product or service offering was what made them feel loyal. 25% said, great customer service experiences. 23% said competitive pricing, 15% said brand reputation. And then only 7% said personalization of the experience. And a mere 3% said if the company was socially aware. So I thought this was kind of interesting because I dunno I would have thought that the great customer service experiment experience might’ve been higher. I think reputation often plays a really big role because people feel associated with brands. What did you think about that one?
Joey Coleman (10:35):
Well, I think that, you know, the challenge with any survey and the fact of the matter is the folks at Conversocial do a really good job. As you mentioned, this is multiple years running. Their survey methodology, as far as we can tell, is really solid. I think the reason why personalization and socially aware were so low is twofold. Number one brands, aren’t doing enough of it, right? So when you think about the brands that you’re really loyal to how much personalization is actually happening, so you can’t score it high for personalization because maybe you’re loyal, but there isn’t a high level of personalization. And the same with being socially aware. I mean, I know increasingly this is something that I’m paying attention to. I know a lot of my consulting clients were paying attention to, you know, where do you stand on some of the big social issues of the day and of our time. But I think a lot of brands are kind of in this, not exactly sure space of well, if we come out too strongly in favor of a position of a certain social issue, we might alienate some folks. And the reality is, yes, you will. But, the ones who are most loyal to you, might double down even more.
Dan Gingiss (11:46):
And that my friends is the state or at least the short version of the State of CX Trends Report by Conversocial. We’ll put a link in the show notes. If you’d like to go download the full report for yourself.
Joey Coleman (11:59):
We love telling stories and sharing key insights you can implement, or avoid, based on our experiences. Can you believe that This Just Happened?
Dan Gingiss (12:12):
Joey – I know you’d like to cook with your wife. Do you also like to bake at all maybe with the kids?
Joey Coleman (12:22):
Well, you know what Dan, I certainly enjoy these activities, but I’d be remiss because my wife listens to the show. I like to cook with my wife. I’m not super sure that she likes it when I joined into the cooking. She loves when I do the dishes that I know for sure. And with the kids, I will say one of the upsides of the pandemic has been a lot more time with the kids and we have baked some chocolate chip cookies and some other stuff like that. So yeah, there has been a little more baking than usual.
Dan Gingiss (12:51):
Excellent. So let me ask you something else. When you have a question about something that you’re cooking or baking, whom do you ask?
Joey Coleman (12:59):
Well, first on that list is usually my wife. Second on that list would be my mom. Third on the list would probably be calling you. And the fact that I’ve never called you for advice probably is an indicator of how rarely I actually cook or bake.
Dan Gingiss (13:13):
Gotcha. Or how low down on the list I am.
Joey Coleman (13:16):
You’re in the top three buddy! You’re in the top three, guaranteed.
Dan Gingiss (13:20):
Well, I mean, you’re definitely in the top three of my favorite podcast co-hosts.
Joey Coleman (13:25):
Dan Gingiss (13:27):
Anyway, uh, yes, Dan did use to have another podcast. So anyway, I have always called my mom for help cooking or baking. She is a wonderful cook, a terrific Baker used to have her own catering company that was baked goods only. And, uh, you know, I love going over there when she is baking something. But that of course begs the question. If I call her for when I have, when I need help. Who does she call when she’s stuck? Now to answer that, let me first tell you a quick story that actually also has to do with chocolate chip cookies. So my mom for years has made the traditional Toll House chocolate chip cookie recipe. Although mom, I’m going to do it. I’m going to spoil this and share it.
Joey Coleman (14:15):
Oh no. Mrs. Gingiss! I am so sorry. I am not part of this. This is unsanctioned behavior by your son. I am not condoning this behavior.
Dan Gingiss (14:23):
Well, if you want to have the Gingiss version of toll house chocolate chip cookies, you just make a tiny, tiny, tiny change to the recipe. You just double the chocolate chips. You can thank me later. Anyway, a number of years ago, my mom made a Toll House chocolate chip cookies with double the chocolate chips. And I happened to comment to her that I thought it was the best batch she had ever made. Now to give you a tiny bit of background, I often give her feedback on cooking, baking, and she asks me for feedback cause she trusts my judgment and thinks I have, you know, decent taste around these things. But I said to her man, these cookies are really, really good. I think they’re the best you’ve ever made. And she said, well that’s because I used a new flour in them. I said, okay, tell me more. And so she introduced me to the King Arthur flour company, whose slogan is by the way, baking with joy since 1790.
Joey Coleman (15:18):
Wait, you didn’t say 1970, you said 1790, right?
Dan Gingiss (15:23):
I said 1790.
Joey Coleman (15:25):
Wow. They’re almost as old as the United States!
Dan Gingiss (15:28):
Exactly. Now King Arthur flour company is an employee owned company. And they mentioned on their website that every one of us are bakers at heart. And for generations we’ve been there with you as you bake. Our mission is to be the ultimate resource and inspiration in the kitchen to inspire connections and community through baking and to use our business as a force for good. Now I decided for this segment to go check out their website and besides from all the recipes, and articles, and other really good content that they have King Arthur offers a bakers hotline.
Joey Coleman (16:03):
Of course they do. I love it!
Dan Gingiss (16:05):
And when you navigate to it on the website, you are greeted with the following quote, your bread fell flat, your cookies crumbled, who do you turn to the King? Arthur Baker’s hotline. Our professional bakers are ready to guide you through any baking challenge. Call – there’s a phone number, email, or chat online. We can help.
Joey Coleman (16:27):
You know, I love this. I love the idea of being able to reach out and get some support because maybe you can’t ask your spouse or maybe you can’t ask your mom, or your dad, or whoever it is that you normally would reach out to for help. This is a great idea. You know, I’m reminded of the Thanksgiving hotline that Butterball Turkey has, right? There’s this great scene in one of the old episodes of West Wing, where they call in and it’s giving advice to the person on the other end of the line, uh, for the hotline. But I had not ever heard of the King Arthur Baker’s hotline.
Dan Gingiss (17:02):
Well, so I talked to my mom about this recently and she said she has been calling them for years. And she…
Joey Coleman (17:08):
The secret technique of Mrs Gingiss. I like!
Dan Gingiss (17:12):
Exactly it. She says that they will answer anything and I’m quoting her. She told me today, everyone I’ve ever spoken to is patient with me and kind now here’s, what’s fascinating is this came up because my mom explained to me that she called them earlier this week about a recipe. Are you ready for this? That didn’t even have flour in it because it was a flowerless chocolate cake. I loved that. And I applaud it. I was like, mom, that’s awesome. You called a flour company to ask them if she had a, she had a good question. She had a question about the recipe called for table salt, and she only had kosher salt. And she knew that that was not a one-to-one ratio. And she asked them, you know, she said, here’s what I’m making and what should the ratio be? And they cheerfully answered her question. They didn’t say, well, where are you calling us?
Joey Coleman (18:05):
We’re only willing to give advice for flour baked goods!
Dan Gingiss (18:08):
Exactly. And so I think this is absolutely phenomenal. And of course not only is this now the only flour that my mom buys, she actually gets it for me too. And for my sister and, you know, we pack our cupboards with it because it produces a better product. But now I know it is also a very forward-thinking, even though it was created in 1790, and customer friendly company – which I think is amazing and not that hard to accomplish, right?! I mean, all they’re doing is becoming an educational resource with their articles and recipes and their hotline so that if you’re interested in baking, they want to be the go-to place. I don’t know. Kind of reminds me a little bit of our friend Marcus. Sheridan’s they ask you answer. They want to be the place you go to, if you have questions about baking. And I think that’s brilliant.
Joey Coleman (19:01):
I think it’s absolutely brilliant. And you know what also comes to mind here, Dan, and I’m, I’m guessing, I don’t know, but I’m guessing that the folks at King Arthur employ the folks that work on the Baker’s hotline, but I can almost envision a world where strong brand advocates like your mom could be answering calls for other bakers. And when you go back to kind of their mission of being a resource and inspiring connection and community, I see some businesses could get creative about just connecting your existing customers to other existing customers in an easy way that they can help and support each other. It doesn’t have to be necessarily a line item expense where you’re going to roll out a call center. You could just empower your current customers to help your newer customers and help each other along the way.
Dan Gingiss (19:51):
I love that. And I’m reminded of, I think a company that does that amazingly well is into it with their TurboTax product, is there is a huge community of people that answer. I mean, imagine how many questions people have about filing their taxes, tens of thousands of questions every year. And no, there’s no call center in the universe that can handle all of these questions, but they have a really involved community that does it. So I love that idea and example. I will say, just to close up that they are employees because on the King Arthur website are the pictures and bios of all of the people that act as the sort of bakers consultants that you may end up talking to or emailing to, and you could see their pictures, you could see their backgrounds, their favorite recipes and all that sort of stuff, which of course, again, bring some personalization to it and, and makes you realize that you’re talking to another human who shares your love of baking. And I think the whole thing is terrific. So go check out King Arthur flour. The next time you want to bake something, pick it up at your local grocery store and you’ll make the best chocolate chip cookies you’ve ever tasted.
Joey Coleman (21:01):
Almost everyone has interacted with chatbots, but all too often, it’s been a bad experience. In MythBusters, presented by Solvvy, we explore a common myth about CX chatbots and see how the right technology can create a positive experience, every time.
Dan Gingiss (21:24):
Today’s myth about chatbots? Chatbots don’t work across multiple channels. We learned earlier in the show that bots continue to play an increasingly important role in CX delivery. But one of the common concerns we’ve heard about chatbots is that while they work on your company’s website or maybe your mobile app, they aren’t necessarily easy to deploy across all of the places that customers contact your company that is chat bots. Aren’t omni-channel. They only work in the specific context or area for which they are constructed, and that’s not a particularly flexible or scalable solution.
Joey Coleman (21:59):
Ah, but the reality is that next gen chat bot technology allows you to train the bot once and deploy it practically anywhere. Modern chat bot platforms can be used across many different channels, which is critical. Now that there’s so many ways to connect with a company or brand, as we talked about earlier, with the Conversocial findings – whether that’s web, or mobile, or phone, or chat, or Facebook messenger, or WhatsApp, and probably a bunch of others that I can’t even think of right now, Dan!
Dan Gingiss (22:28):
I’m pretty proud of you for pulling out a couple of those social media examples that are Joey.
Joey Coleman (22:33):
Well, I try to learn every day. If you build and train a chat bot for answering questions on your website, you can now extend that technology to the other channels that customers are using in a faster and more cost-effective way, no more reinventing the wheel. And best of all, you’re able to provide a consistent experience to your audience. So your brand is always well-represented.
Dan Gingiss (22:55):
And that’s another myth busted, thanks to our friends and podcast supporters at Solvvy – the next gen chatbot.
Joey Coleman (23:06):
Sometimes the customer experience is amazing! And sometimes we just want to cry… Get ready for the roller coaster ride in this edition of, I Love It! I Can’t Stand It!
Dan Gingiss (23:24):
Every once in a while. It is fun to dust off an oldie, but goodie segment that we haven’t used in a long time, for one reason or another, not intentionally, but this one, it goes all the way back to season five, episode 95. It’s been a while. It’s been a long time since we have, I love it. I can’t stand it.
Joey Coleman (23:49):
Oh, I like it. I like it.
Dan Gingiss (23:51):
So I was thinking that we, because you and I have had some similar experiences lately, I happened to be in the middle of, uh, getting new floors in my house and true fact, I tried to work through to not just one but two jackhammers going on floors today. And, uh, yeah, And I’m doing some flooring and some painting, and I know you just recently built an office in the home that you moved to. So I’m guessing that like me, you have had to deal with some contractors.
Joey Coleman (24:21):
Oh yes. And let’s say, and I say this respectfully to the various folks I worked with, I said to my wife, my goal is to be standing in my new studio for Halloween. Well, let’s just say Halloween came and went. No trick or treat mostly trick! Thanksgiving came and went. Christmas, Hanukkah, New Year’s, Valentine’s Day, St. Patrick’s day. Oh my gosh. It’s like the holiday adventure of trying to see when I’m finally going to be in my new studio.
Dan Gingiss (24:52):
Oh man. Well, I hope you are there soon. I know it’s getting close, but I thought it might be fun for us to talk about the things that we love and can’t stand about using contractors. So I’ll go first. Let’s talk about the things that we love and we’ll just kind of volley back and forth a little bit, and then we’ll get to the things we can’t stand. So I was particularly impressed with, uh, insulation company that I had to bring out because I was having a problem with two rooms in my house being a little colder than the rest of the house. And I didn’t quite know what was going on. And this guy showed up with a digital infrared thermometer that was really cool. It kind of was shaped almost like a gun. And he pointed it up at the ceiling and on the display, it showed the hot and cold spots of the room. And we could see exactly where the cold air was coming from.
Joey Coleman (25:45):
Dan Gingiss (25:46):
It was not only was it really cool, but I immediately trusted that he was going to be able to solve my problem. I have no idea how good he is at installation. But what I liked is that he had the right tools to show me what the problem was and that to me gained trust that he knew what he was doing and that he could fix it.
Joey Coleman (26:04):
I love it. You know, speaking of trust, Dan, I love working with any organization and specifically in this context, contractors who you trust to take your idea to the next level. What do I mean by that? You know, I am not a contractor by trade. I am not a carpenter. I’m not a plumber. I am not an electrician. I don’t have any of those skills. And I will happily hire people that do have those skills. But I have a vision of what I want and what I love is when I say, so here’s what I’m trying to accomplish and then there’s an additive conversation where the contractor doesn’t just say, yeah, Joey, we can do that. They say, yeah, we do that. But we could also take it to the next level by doing this. And they give additional ideas. That to me again, to your point gives me the confidence with that I’m with the right person. And it also helps me feel from the very beginning that there’s a shared vision for what the final outcome is we’re looking for.
Dan Gingiss (27:02):
Yeah. I love it. It’s like, they’re there. They’re partnering with you in, in creating your, whatever, the thing it is that you are building. So I had another interesting experience with, uh, one of the floor people. So we had a bunch of people come and quote us on wood floors. And what most of the flooring companies do is they make you pick a color from their catalog and then they buy the wood and they put it on. But at this guy, he said, look, we’re going to put on raw lumber, we’re going to sand it down. And then we’re going to come with stains. We’re going to sit with you in your home. And we’re going to basically practice stain until we find exactly the right color that you want. We can do literally any color under the rainbow. And if we do a stain and you just, you know, you’d like it slightly darker then we’ll try again and we’ll do a little darker and we’re, I’m excited to do this process. It’s coming up in a couple of days. But the whole idea is, is that we don’t have to choose from a catalog and then kind of imagine what it’s going to be like in our house. We can actually see it in our, oh, with our windows and the lighting and all that sort of stuff and make our decision in real time to say, Oh, a little bit lighter, a little bit darker. And I kind of think that’s going to be fun. And this is me. I don’t have any of those skills that you said do, and here I am saying, I think flooring installation could be fun. So yeah…
Joey Coleman (28:23):
I did catch that when you said, I think this is going to be fun. When was that sentence last spoken by somebody who was getting new floors?
Dan Gingiss (28:33):
And I have to say, that was the differentiator for us and why we brought this guy in, because it’s the same thing as he was like, well, hold on a second. Do we want to choose from catalog or do we want to get, do we want to know that we’re going to get exactly the color we want? And he got the business because of it.
Joey Coleman (28:48):
I love it. You know, speaking of easy ways to get the business that seem easy, but interestingly enough, don’t show up a lot in the world of contractors. How about arriving on time?! Saying I’m going to be there at 9:00 AM and actually showing up at 9:00 AM. Instead of saying, I’m going to be there at 9:00 AM and showing up at 2:00 PM. There’s a big difference there. And I get that increasingly in this pandemic era, many of us are working from home. And so it’s easier to just keep working, but nothing says, Hey, guess what else I might lie about then not being able to keep a schedule.
Dan Gingiss (29:23):
Totally, totally agree. The other thing that I would say is that it’s so important to set expectations. And I really like when the contractors set the expectations, they have consistent communication. I’ve had these floor guys here now for two days, I got an email in the morning. I an email in the evening. The email in the evening had pictures of the work that they had done during the day and summarized any conversations that I had with the foreman during the day. And so it was, it was very clear around here’s what’s going to happen. Here’s what we’re going to do. And then here’s what we did. And to me again, that just gives me confidence and I feel good that I’ve got the right guys doing the job.
Joey Coleman (30:03):
I love it. Dan, we’ve talked a lot about things we love. Maybe we should shift to talking about some of the things that go happy-go-lucky.
Dan Gingiss (30:13):
okay. We’re going to try to be nice now, now folks.
Joey Coleman (30:16):
Yeah. Let’s get into it. All right. I am not a big fan of folks who don’t write things down.
Dan Gingiss (30:22):
Yeah, I know that here’s a, here’s one from the archives. This was all the way back in season one, episode nine folks, single digits – Joey told us a story about a waitress that did not write the order down in Mandarin and infuriate him.
Joey Coleman (30:37):
I’m still irked by that, to be honest, because listen, if we’re having a conversation, just write it down. I’m not going to think less of you. In fact, I will actually think more of you if I see you taking notes based on our conversation. I don’t know what the, you know, what the desire is to not take notes, but especially in a scenario where I’m going to be paying you to make something in my home, please go ahead and take some notes. I’m really okay with it.
Dan Gingiss (31:03):
Joey, I was fascinated again with the, with the floor folks and we’re having some paint done. You know, some folks came in and they measured every room and they wrote down dimensions and they really took time. And some folks came in and they chewed on the eraser of their pencil and just sort of looked around the room and, and like, did it write a thing down or maybe a, you know, a checkmark or something. And then at the end gave me a quote and it’s a quick quote, are you going to believe the guy that spent the time measuring it out and kind of, you know, did everything to a T or the guy that just put his thumb up in the air and was trying to see which way the wind blew.
Joey Coleman (31:41):
Well, yeah. And then I T to build on that briefly also, it lets me know that, you know, your job, meaning the contractor. I had a conversation with a contractor where they said, so what size door are you looking to have replace? I felt like answering human size. Like, I don’t know, no Hobbit doors please. On, on all of my buildings, I was just like, are you kidding me? I have no idea. And maybe that means I’m not as good of a homeowner is I could be. Or maybe at this point in my life, I should have figured this stuff out. But don’t ask your customers to answer questions that presume a level of intelligence, or a level of knowledge, or level of understanding of your industry or practice that you have. It’s just, it’s not fair. It doesn’t make sense. And you’re not going to be happy with the results.
Dan Gingiss (32:35):
Yeah, definitely agree with that. Uh, and I think relatedly, one of the things that I experienced, I thought it was so strange. So right now many home contractors are very, very busy because there are still people that are, I mean, lots of people are home, so they’ e doing work and it’s getting warmer. And so people are starting to do their spring projects and all that sort of thing. And so, I mean, I literally talked to one contractor that said, I would really love to help you. I’m booked for the next two years. That was a real conversation.
Joey Coleman (33:03):
Dan Gingiss (33:04):
But some other contractors, like I had to hound them to send me the quote. They came out on Monday and you know, two Mondays later, they still haven’t sent me a quote. And it sounds like…
Joey Coleman (33:13):
I just want to give you money. I really just want to give you money. Can you tell me how much money I have to give you?
Dan Gingiss (33:18):
Exactly. There was another one where I called and they said, Oh, the owner will get back to you tomorrow. He didn’t. So I waited a couple of days. I called again, they said, Oh, the owner will get back to you tomorrow. He did it. So I waited again. I called a third time. They said the owner will get back to you tomorrow. Guess what I did.
Joey Coleman (33:35):
I don’t think you waited any longer.
Dan Gingiss (33:36):
I didn’t wait any longer. I didn’t think he lost the business. Right. And it’s like, this is not necessary. Right? I much more appreciated the guy that said, “Hey, we’re booked for two years. I wish I could help you.” I still feel okay about him. Hey, I’m happy for him. He’s got lots of business versus the guy that’s too busy to even give me a quote or call me back. That is not going to result in me giving you any further business or me recommending you.
Joey Coleman (34:00):
Yeah. It’s so much of this stuff seems so basic and so obvious. Uh, what about the idea of taking payment? I find it fascinating that most contractors are like, great. I’ll take a check or cash. Like, hi, it’s 2021. I’d love to pay you via Venmo, PayPal, or credit card, any number of other payment methods that don’t require me to use old school modalities of giving you money. And yet you would think I was asking to pay in Bitcoin, which I was not by the way, but it’s like at this point in the game, if you work in a business and you don’t have a free credit card swiper from a service like Square or PayPal, w-what is happening, I just don’t understand why you’re not ready for that. And I get that you have to pay a certain percentage for that privilege and for that benefit. But customer convenience, customer ease has a value to it as well.
Dan Gingiss (34:57):
It is. It’s a cost of doing business. And, uh, you know, for a guy that used to work at a credit card company, we would always ask merchants, you know, that didn’t want to accept credit cards or that didn’t want to accept the discover card. You know, why would you stand in the way of a customer trying to pay you? I mean, really like to me and I do this in my business, you could pay me any way you want. Other than, I don’t know, like soybeans, I probably don’t accept, but you know, however you want to pay me. I am happy to make accommodations for you to pay me that way, because the money is going from your pocket to mine and I think that, uh, that more companies should do that. Uh, the last thing that I think we can leave people with is when I can’t stand it, when contractors do not clean up after themselves, I mean, goodness gracious. Now they’re making a big mess. This is your home, not their home. And part of the job is cleaning up afterwards, right? It’s not our responsibility to clean up. And so please, just as when we take a walk in nature, you know, leave nothing but footprints and leave the place even sparklier than when you found it. So how does all of this apply to more businesses? Right? Because I’m guessing there’s not a ton of contractors listening here.
Joey Coleman (36:12):
I think we should remind people the reason we do love it can’t stand. It is not to complain about the specific instance, whether it’s rental cars or contractors or whatever we’re talking about – although it is a nice little venting exercise for Dan and I it’s to point out how many industries struggle with the same basic customer experience elements, right? It’s not just the contractors and the rental car companies and the other folks we’ve talked about on love. It can’t stand. It it’s every business that has human beings as customers.
Dan Gingiss (36:46):
Absolutely. And I’m guessing that though, there may, we only may have a small percentage of contractors that listen to the show. We have a large percentage of companies that have to quote out their business and compete against other companies or bid out their business. I think we have a large number of companies that accept payments in some form. I would hope.
Joey Coleman (37:05):
I think we have a large number of companies who your customers know less about what you do, then, you know what they’re doing for a reason they’re looking for your expertise.
Dan Gingiss (37:15):
Yeah. We talked about blind transactions a couple episodes ago with going to the dentist and other things. So yeah, oftentimes you have more knowledge than your customer. So these, you may not be putting in new floors, but you are doing a lot of the same actions that a contractor might do. And that’s why we try to present these things that we both love. And can’t stand because likely, although, you know, Joey and I are maybe a little pickier than most, likely they are representative of what customers love and can’t stand as well.
Joey Coleman (37:53):
Thanks for joining us for another episode of Experience This! You are the best listener ever!
Dan Gingiss (37:59):
And since you listened to the whole show…
Joey Coleman (38:02):
Dan Gingiss (38:03):
we’re curious… was there a specific part of this episode that you enjoyed the most? If so, it would mean the world to us if you could share it with a coworker, a friend, or someone that just loves listening to podcasts.
Joey Coleman (38:14):
And while you’re in the sharing mood, if you felt inclined to jump over to iTunes, or wherever you find your podcasts, and write us a review, we would so appreciate it. And when you do, don’t forget to let us know as we might have a little surprise for you.
Dan Gingiss (38:29):
Thanks again for your time. And we’ll see you next week for more
Joey Coleman (38:32):
Dan Gingiss (38:32):