Experience Points Crossover Segment

Episode 116 – The Sonic Brand of Your Experience

Join us as we discuss using handwritten notes to create connection, refreshing the sound of your brand, and trying to figure out what happened next when you only know the first half of the story.

Connections, Cues, and Cameras – Oh My!

[CX Press] If You Can’t Touch, Use a Personalized Touchpoint

Things We Mentioned in This Segment:

On This Delta Flight, the Crew Did Something to Remind All of Us of the Importance of Creating Personal Connections – by Jason Aten on Inc.com
• Delta Airlines
• LaGuardia Airport (LGA)

[Dissecting the Experience] Evolving a Sonic Brand

Things We Mentioned in This Segment:

NBC Chimes
• Sports Center Intro
• Disney Intro
• THX Surround Sound Test
BYU’s a cappela group “Vocal Point” sings the THX Sound Cue
• Netflix “Ta-Dum”
• Netflix’s New Cinematic “Ta-Dum” Sound Cue – by Hans Zimmer
• Hans Zimmer

[Crossover Segment] Experience Points – What Happened with Rohit Bhargava

Things We Mentioned in This Segment:

• Experience Points – presented by Avtex
• Rohit Bhargava – innovation and marketing expert, founder of the Non-Obvious Company, and Wall Street Journal best selling author of six business books
• What Happened? – Celebrity Guest Rohit Bhargava – Experience Points
• Fake or Fact?! – Celebrity Guest Rohit Bhargava – Experience Points
• Think Fast! – Celebrity Guest Rohit Bhargava – Experience Points

Host Contact Information

Email Dan: Dan@dangingiss.com

Tweet Dan Gingiss: @DGingiss

Email Joey: JoeyC@JoeyColeman.com

DanGingiss.com

JoeyColeman.com

Subscribe to Experience This on Apple Podcasts

Episode Transcript

Download an unedited transcript of Episode 116 here or read it below:

[SHOW INTRO]
Dan Gingiss (00:05):
Welcome to Experience This!

Joey Coleman (00:08):
Where you’ll find inspiring examples of customer experience, great stories of customer service, and tips on how to make your customers love you even more.

New Speaker (00:17):
Always upbeat and definitely entertaining customer attention, expert, Joey Coleman,

Joey Coleman (00:23):
and social media expert, Dan Gingiss, serve as your hosts for a weekly dose of positive customer experience.

New Speaker (00:30):
So hold on to your headphones… It’s time to Experience This!

[EPISODE 116 INTRO]
Joey Coleman (00:39):
Get ready, for another episode of the Experience This Show!

Dan Gingiss (00:44):
Join us as we discuss: using handwritten notes to create connection, refreshing the sound of your brand, and trying to figure out what happened next, when you only know the first half of the story!

Joey Coleman (00:57):
Connections, cues and cameras. Oh, my!

[SEGMENT INTRO – CX PRESS]
Joey Coleman (01:05):
There are so many great customer experience articles to read, but who has the time! We summarize them and offer clear takeaways you can implement starting tomorrow. Enjoy this segment of CX Press, where we read the articles, so you don’t need to!

[CX PRESS][If You Can’t Touch, Use a Personalized Touchpoint]
Joey Coleman (01:23):
Alright Dan, I have a confession to make…

Dan Gingiss (01:25):
Oh boy, I’m not entirely sure I’m qualified to hear this, but go ahead.

Joey Coleman (01:30):
All right – here’s my confession. It’s been 244 days, nine hours, 11 minutes and 19 – wait, make that 20 seconds – since the last time I was on an airplane!

Dan Gingiss (01:47):
It’s been that long?! That’s a long time Joey!

Joey Coleman (01:52):
It hurts. It hurts…

Dan Gingiss (01:52):
For guys that are used to being on an airplane, you know, sometimes, uh, several times a week, uh, back and forth, it, it really is – it’s a big part of our lives that has just completely disappeared.

Joey Coleman (02:06):
Vanished in 2019, I flew over 160,000 miles on Delta and I, yeah, it’s just it’s I miss it. I miss it. And while I don’t miss all aspects of flying, there are definitely some aspects that I do miss. And as our Experience This listeners know when I fly, as I mentioned earlier, you’ll find me flying Delta,

Dan Gingiss (02:29):
But I do think it’s been 244 days, nine hours, 11 minutes and 20 seconds since you’ve mentioned Delta on this podcast as well!

Joey Coleman (02:37):
It might be, it’s been awhile. It’s been awhile, but, um, that is probably why. And fans know that I’m a huge fan of Delta. That is probably why three people, including my amazing wife Berit, loyal Experience This show listener, Nick Hemmert, and Barry Glassman advisor to the wealthy around the world, sent me a link to the CX Press article. We’re going to talk about today within an hour of it being published. Like, you know, that my brand has been associated with Delta when there is a story that is published and within an hour of it going live, I get it from three completely different people. So let’s talk about the article. You can find a link to this article, which was written by Jason Aten, in the show notes that experienced this show.com or directly on inc com. And the article is titled, “On this Delta flight the crew did something to remind all of us of the importance of creating personal connections.” And this article details, a remarkable experience that Jason had while flying on a Delta flight to New York city and specifically to LaGuardia airport,

Dan Gingiss (03:45):
Because let’s face it folks, you aren’t going to have a great experience at LaGuardia airport!

Joey Coleman (03:51):
Oh, our poor friends at LaGuardia – that hurt!

Dan Gingiss (03:56):
It’s my least favorite airport on the planet. I’m sorry. I’m sorry guys in New York. I know, but no, I just it’s.

Joey Coleman (04:04):
We, we, we all have a challenging airport – Dan’s is LaGuardia. Well, anyway, as the plane was taxing to the gate, after landing a flight attendant came around and delivered handwritten notes to the passengers. Now the note which Jason included a picture of in his article, and again, we’ll link to in our show notes, read as follows:

Joey Coleman (04:26):
“Mr. Jason Aten – I wanted to take a moment to say thank you for flying with us today. Thank you also for being a Silver Medallion with us, it truly is passengers like you that make my job not only great, but also make Delta the airline that it is today. Thank you so very much for your continued loyalty, all my best and safe travels, Gabby bragger.

Dan Gingiss (04:50):
Well, I think this is awesome, but I hate to say my first reaction is this was easy to do because there were probably only four people on the plane!

Joey Coleman (05:00):
Now I will say the article kind of alludes to it. Wasn’t a super heavy packed flight, right? That were less people. But I think that proves the point. If the, if you’re dealing as most businesses are right now in this COVID era with even less customers than you have in the past, are you upping your game? Are you upping the experience? I mean, so many businesses are looking for ways to stand out in the marketplace, to connect with their customers, to get more business out of the clients that they do have. And this is a fantastic example of something that every business can do. It’s low cost, but it’s high ROI. It’s a small commitment of time, but it delivers longterm value. It’s such an easy thing to do, but here’s the reality. So many people who have found the time to listen to this episode of the experience, this podcast will not find the time or rather schedule the time to sit down and write. Thank you note to a customer. And I don’t say that to be critical of our listeners. I say, that’s how low hanging this fruit is and available for you friends. Like all you got to do is write a thank you note.

Dan Gingiss (06:09):
Yeah, I definitely agree. And it is a much under-utilized practice, much like recognizing birthdays, which we’ve talked about before. And I know in a previous episode we talked about one of my favorite brands called PunkPost, which is a terrific way to send thank you notes. If like me, you don’t have all the pretty stationary sitting around and you don’t feel like actually writing it yourself. PunkPost will do it for you. But I definitely think that is a amazing thing to do. And all jokes aside about how many people were on the plane. It is a fantastic practice. And I think it was clearly meaningful to this guy. I’m guessing that the flight attendant didn’t know that he wrote for inc. And we’ve mentioned many times before that we don’t always know if our customers have podcasts or write for anchor Forbes or have their own blogs or have social media followings, but that doesn’t really matter. Ultimately, what we want is for those customers to tell a friend, to tell a colleague, to tell a family member that this happened to them on Delta or on whatever company with whatever company you’re dealing with. And that becomes the elusive word of mouth marketing that, you know, I was a marketer for 20 years, this is the thing all marketers are trying to get is word of mouth marketing. And it comes down not to a funny advertisement or something like that, but something as simple as writing a thank you note.

Joey Coleman (07:37):
So true Dan, and something that folks who don’t regularly fly Delta may not know. There’s that reference in the note. Thank you for being a Silver Medallion, Silver Medallion in the Delta flight loyalty world means you fly 25,000 miles a year. So it’s actually their lowest threshold for being a recognized medallion or kind of loyalty member. So if, if this was going to somebody who flew a hundred thousand miles a year, you could kind of say, Oh, well of course this is their top customer. I’m not saying that Jason, isn’t a great customer and a loyal customer. But what I love about this is it’s a way to connect with people who maybe someday will be at the next level of being a customer. And you can lay a foundation with these personal touch interactions that kind of continue the conversation going forward.

Dan Gingiss (08:29):
So in other words, those Silver Medallions are the people that you diamond people look no, look down on?!

Joey Coleman (08:35):
No, no, no brother, every year I’ve got to work my way through silver, to gold, to platinum and finally land in diamond. Uh, so I to go through silver at the beginning of the year, I tried to go through it quickly. So I get to the next levels, but yeah, it’s all part of it. And I think so often people will ask whether it’s, you know, when I’m doing a virtual keynote or consulting with a client, they’ll say, well, Joey, is it okay if we treat different levels of our customers in different ways? Can we put more praise and more interesting things and more touch points onto our highest paying or our most profitable or most loyal customers? And I always say, yes, you absolutely can. As long as that doesn’t mean you have a pathetic experience for the people who haven’t reached that level.

Dan Gingiss (09:19):
Sure. The base, the base level still has to be good for you to do.

Joey Coleman (09:22):
Exactly. Exactly. So I don’t mind extra gilding for the people who are your most loyal or your most profitable or whatever categorization you might want to give them, but you gotta deliver something to everyone. And as I understand from the story and the article, doesn’t clearly detail this, but it’s written in a way that it makes me believe that everyone on the plane got a handwritten note. And stop and think about those long flights, where, and I say, this respectfully everybody’s been served, everybody’s gotten their food, their snack, their drinks, they’re watching their movie, they’re working on their laptop. They’re doing whatever they’re doing. And I’m describing this in detail because it’s been so long since most of us have been on a flight. I want you to remember what it was like lots of times the flight attendants disappear for 20 minutes, 30 minutes an hour on these long haul flights or they’re there, but it’s kind of getting missed during that downtime. Yes, they could be playing candy crush on their phone, or they could be writing a handwritten note. And this flight attendant happened to take the time to write the handwritten note, which really stood out and led to the article.

Dan Gingiss (10:20):
And look, I think for people listening, this is probably the most important time for you to do this because if you’re not an airline, you’re probably not in front of your customers right now. And, and they’re not in front of you even if they want to be. And so it’s a great time for you to reach out to people, to remind them that you appreciate them when times are down, when the chips are down and when times are good. And these are the customers that are continuing to purchase your products and service even during a pandemic. And I think they deserve special attention or recognition for their continued patronage, even when it might be a little tough.

Joey Coleman (11:01):
100%. I mean, if you can’t have personal touch interactions because we’re not doing actual touching at least have a cool touch point like this. And I think the handwritten thank you. Note is an no-brainer. I mean, when it comes to the investment that it takes you to write a handwritten, thank you note, compared to the impact that has on your relationship with the recipient. I actually can’t think of a single customer touchpoint or experience enhancement that will have a greater return on investment or better outcome for you. I mean, thank you. Notes are increasingly rare in our, on the go transactional. We don’t teach cursive anymore digital world, right? They offer a physical memento of a personal relationship with someone that is all too often relegated to a fleeting text message or an archived, or God forbid even deleted email message. It requires less than minutes of your time, but people keep notes like this around for months or even years. I mean, let me ask this question of you, Dan and everybody who’s listening at home. You can play along too. Do you have in your house a thank you note that somebody wrote to you? Yes or no?

Dan Gingiss (12:09):
I do. Yes.

Joey Coleman (12:10):
Yes. Now let me ask this question, is that, thank you note older than three months old?

Dan Gingiss (12:15):
Yes.

Joey Coleman (12:16):
Yes! So here’s the fascinating thing. You still have the note, you remember who it was from? You’ve read it at least once, if not more. And you kept it.

Speaker 3 (12:26):
Yeah.

Joey Coleman (12:28):
This is a hundred percent unscripted! Tell us about it.

Dan Gingiss (12:30):
Yeah. I have two of them hung up in my office because they inspire me and I read them all the time.

Joey Coleman (12:37):
I love it. I love it. So here’s the thing. We as human beings in, since the beginning of time, but particularly in the middle of this pandemic, we are dying for physical proof that we matter. We are dying for evidence that we have created a connection with someone that we have served, someone that they appreciate our presence on the planet. And a thank you note is a such an easy way to let them know that and people will keep these and they will look back on them and they will remember you. And they will think fondly of you and folks, it’s like, you can do this for less than a $1.50 per customer, like easy for less than a $1.50 per customer. And I’m counting postage, and the note, and the envelope, all in… Everybody should be doing this.

Dan Gingiss (13:21):
So as Jason Apley notes in the article, quote, “[e]very time you interact with a customer, you have an opportunity to reinforce your values and build the relationship. At a time when personal connections are more than a bit strained, every effort you make to reach out to your customers or anyone for that matter is a big deal.”

Joey Coleman (13:41):
Absolutely. So friends, we have a challenge for you. Having recently celebrated Thanksgiving here in the United States and in Canada, and with a nod of appreciation to our listeners outside of the United States and Canada, all of you listening around the world. Thanks so much for your support. Here’s the challenge. Pick one of your customers. And if you’re one of those overachievers, go ahead and pick three, but don’t pick more than three and write them a handwritten note, a physical handwritten note with your hand or a pen, thanking them for sticking with you through 2020, thanking them for their continued patronage. Let them know how excited you are to be serving them now and to continue serving them into the new year and beyond. Write the note and see what happens.

[SEGMENT INTRO – DISSECTING THE EXPERIENCE]
Joey Coleman (14:29):
Sometimes a remarkable experience deserves deeper investigation. We dive into the nitty gritty of customer interactions and dissect how, and why, they happen. Join us while we’re Dissecting the Experience.

[DISSECTING THE EXPERIENCE][Evolving a Sonic Brand]
Joey Coleman (14:47):
Dan, I know you are a huge fan of game shows.

Dan Gingiss (14:52):
I always have been. And I assume we’re going to talk about our new game show, Experience Points?

Joey Coleman (14:59):
Uh, not in this segment. We’re actually going to talk about Experience Points in the next segment, Dan, but for now, I want to give you a chance to play the Experience This version of a little game called, “Name That Tune!”

Dan Gingiss (15:12):
Okay. In all seriousness, and this is unrehearsed, that was one of my favorite game shows. And of all the game shows that have come back that have been resurrected over the years. I cannot figure out why Name That Tune has never come back?

Joey Coleman (15:24):
I know, I know it’s it’s so, especially with the advent of so many more people listening, I mean, let’s, let’s take it back from like the Walkman to the iPod, to Tik TOK today. Like music is such a bigger part of everyone’s life today in many ways than it was even 20 years ago. I agree with you Name That Tune would be an obvious, obvious play, but what I decided, cause I knew and the folks, this is completely unrehearsed. Dan has no idea where this is going because I know you’re a big fan of game shows. And there was a interesting little story. I came across that I wanted to share. I wanted to turn it into a game. So what I’m going to do is much like name that tune. I’m going to play a little audio clip and Dan, you get to guess where it comes from. All right. So here is your…

Dan Gingiss (16:10):
Put me on the spot.

Joey Coleman (16:13):
Here’s your first one.

Dan Gingiss (16:18):
Okay. Not only do I know that that’s NBC, but you know, it was really weird. Joey. I had a sense that that was the first one you were going to show me as soon as you said, here’s the first one. I’m like, it’s going to be done. And uh, I don’t know.

Joey Coleman (16:34):
I love it. It is a very, very famous sound cue. You did a great job of getting it. I love it.

Dan Gingiss (16:42):
Whew, I didn’t miss them all. So now I can relax a little bit.

Joey Coleman (16:45):
Exactly. You can breathe. These are, you got the first one right now. I got to tell you, Dan, of all the sound cues in the game. No pressure. This is the one I think you have the highest likelihood of getting, right? So you already got NBC, right? So you’re doing well. But this one, I really think there is a strong possibility. You’re going to get it right. All right. On your marks. Get set. Go.

Dan Gingiss (17:12):
Yes, definitely! ESPN Sports Center!

Joey Coleman (17:16):
Yes. Sports Center. You are correct. Dan Gingiss ladies and gentlemen to, for, to get it done. He knows. He knows his points. We’re not going for charity just yet. I’m not making a donation. Maybe if you get all five, I’ll do something special for you, Dan. All right. Now this one may be not quite as familiar to you, but I know will be familiar to a lot of our listeners.

Dan Gingiss (17:43):
You’re the dummy Dan? Everyone else will know it.

Joey Coleman (17:45):
No, no. I think you’ll know this one too. There you go. This, this, one’s got a little bit of a buildup. All right, that’s plenty.

Dan Gingiss (18:08):
Yeah. At the beginning I was like, what the heck is that?

Joey Coleman (18:11):
It’s the buildup…

Dan Gingiss (18:11):
I’m going to go with Walt Disney or Disney?

Joey Coleman (18:14):
You are correct. That is the opening theme to all Walt Disney movies. All right. We’ve got another one for you. Dan. Here you go again. This one’s got a little bit of a buildup.

Joey Coleman (18:53):
So it’s been awhile, I imagine. But do you remember where you heard that one?

Dan Gingiss (18:57):
I believe that is, I hope I get the brand right, but is that the Dolby sound surround sound?

Joey Coleman (19:02):
So close? It is THX. You are right. It is okay. It is the sound that they play at the beginning. When you’re at a movie theater.

Dan Gingiss (19:10):
Actually you’ll appreciate this, I once heard an acapella group do that and it was unbelievable because it actually heard in like five different sounds at the same time. And it came out amazingly well saving and I love it.

Joey Coleman (19:25):
We’ll see. We’ll see if we can track that down and put it in the show notes had experienced this show.com. All right. Now this is the last one. Dan, here’s the last sound cue for you? And I will tell you this one in advance. It’s actually quite short. All right. What do you think, Dan?

Dan Gingiss (19:43):
Yeah, I hear this one. I don’t know, like five times a week. I, I think it’s Netflix.

Joey Coleman (19:49):
Yes, sir. You are correct. Ladies and gentlemen, Dan Gingiss game show host-wanna-be extraodinairre, his favorite game show was Named That Tune and you proved it today with this segment, Dan, you got all of them, right? I love it. Now I got to tell you that last sound cue is pretty interesting because millions of people around the world are familiar with the tandem. You can’t log into Netflix, queue up some cartoons for the kids, or sit down to binge, watch a series without hearing that opening sound cue. Now as observed by Netflix product, vice president, Todd Yellin, quote, it’s become the gold standard for sonic brands. It’s immediately recognizable and everyone knows that it means Netflix.

Dan Gingiss (20:40):
Well, I feel like we could do a whole segment on what makes a sonic brand, which is kind of a cool term I haven’t heard before. But what I think is so interesting about this is we’ve touched on multiple different senses in our previous episodes, right? We earlier this season, we talked about the bookstore that is completely dark. And you talked about a restaurant that you went to in the dark and we’ve, uh, w last season we interviewed somebody that works for, uh, a company that produces scents, very memorable scents in hotels and, and other places and

Joey Coleman (21:16):
And we’ve talked about bespoke touch, you know, experiences like, you know, velvet touch, magnetic enclosures on packages and velvet paper for brochures. Yeah. We’ve talked a lot about different ways that senses can be incorporated into the customer experience.

Dan Gingiss (21:31):
Absolutely. And sound, for certain businesses, is absolutely one of those things.

Joey Coleman (21:36):
Absolutely. Now, while sound cues in general are fascinating. Here’s where the Netflix “ta-dum” ran into some challenges. Now, Netflix has grown beyond mailing DVDs to your house, right? They then went to streaming movies to your home, to funding their own movies for theatrical releases. And since 2018, they’ve been releasing original films that they produced and funded in the cinemas. And what happened is Netflix felt that the “ta-dum” sound felt a little too rushed for the cinematic setting.

Dan Gingiss (22:11):
Ooh, it sounds like they needed a little Hollywood boost!

Joey Coleman (22:15):
Exactly! And so according to the fine folks@classicfm.com quote, they needed a movie mood, a symphonic version of the sound to set people up for a longer experience. So what did they do? They hired Hans Zimmer. Some of our listeners may not know Hans Zimmer by name, but I guarantee you’re familiar with the sounds he’s created over the years, including the scores for 150 blockbuster movies like Inception, the entire Pirates of The Caribbean series, Gladiator, the Dark Knight trilogy, and the Lion King. So Zimmer worked to put together an epic new version of “ta-dum”, which I’d love to share with all of you now…

Joey Coleman (23:02):
So it still has the nice “ta-dum” at the end, but it’s a lot more substantial than what we heard.

Dan Gingiss (23:23):
Yeah. It’s interesting. And I I’d be very fascinated to see whether people recognize it as an enhancement to “ta-dum,” or whether they think of it as something completely different. I don’t know. I mean, listening to it, I’m not sure that I can say.

Joey Coleman (23:41):
Yeah, I’m not sure either. And again, we’ll have to see what it’s like in the movie theater when hopefully we can get back to movie theaters soon, but the reality is it’s 16 seconds long. It went from being a two to three seconds long to 16 seconds. I personally think it gives a totally new feel and, you know, the “ta-dum” sound has become really iconic in a short amount of time. And I love that Netflix went to the extra level of saying, you know what, in a theater setting, if we just pop up the Netflix logo and say, we want something a little more, we want to separate the fact that this is Netflix in the cinema, as opposed to Netflix in your home.

Dan Gingiss (24:23):
Yeah. And I think that’s the real reason for doing it is that this is a different product, frankly, that they’re putting out. And ultimately I’m assuming the cinema movies will end up on the streaming services as well. But I think that’s the goal is to differentiate it. And I think that, you know, even that Sports Center theme song that you’ve, uh, that you played has changed over the years and has evolved over the years. And I think that just like we look at our logos, and our colors, and our brand palette, and all that sort of thing, if you have a sound associated with your brand, it’s definitely something that you ultimately want to refresh at some point, you know, we’ve seen, if we stick with movies, you know, you see a company called 20th century Fox that had to grapple with, you know, whether they had to change their name as we entered the 21st century. And, uh, and you, and, and yet sometimes you see throwback. So Disney often leads with that, you know, the old 19, what is the twenties? And so I think you can go both ways. You, you can get that vintage, look if that’s what you’re looking for, or I think, you know, for Netflix, cause to really isn’t the vintage Netflix, so to speak, I do think they’re always looking to be cutting edge. And as the guy said, uh, to be a sonic brand.

Joey Coleman (25:41):
So true. And here’s the thing, listeners, friends, you might be sitting here thinking, all right, guys, what are we supposed to do with this segment? How are we supposed to learn from Netflix’s new symphonic sound cue? Well, here’s a few thoughts. Number one, if you don’t have sound cues in your business, you should consider them in a world where audio is becoming more and more important, whether that’s via voice assistance like Alexa. And I know I just turned her on when I said that or the rising prevalence of podcasts, your brand can and should be thinking more about audio and the sound of your brand. Then maybe you have in the past,

Dan Gingiss (26:20):
I got to interrupt you for a second here. So our listeners may or may not know Joey and I split up the duties of our podcast with not only writing the episodes, but also the kind of behind the scenes thing. And one of the duties that I have is I listened to the episodes before they air. And I am telling you, it would be so easy for me to fast forward through our intro music. I am always humming along with it. And like, you know, speaking on top of the voices because it’s just become, you know, like I get excited when I hear it. And so I, I think that is true of so many things that we don’t even think about how a sound or a jingle or a, or, or some sort of a cue can affect us.

Joey Coleman (27:01):
Yes, absolutely. And let’s be honest again, pull the curtain back a little bit more. We hired a composer to custom compose our music, not only for the show, but for the interstitials between segments and all the segment intros. Ironically enough, my college roommate, Davin Seaman, who’s an amazing musician and composer and keyboard player. We hired him to put something together for us and we’ve intentionally kept the same, you know, general feel to the music. Even as we’ve added new segments from season to season, we always go to him between seasons and we’re like, Hey, we’re going to have two new segment types this season, or we’re going to do this new this season, and he writes new music that fits in the same genre. So there’s regardless of how big or small your brand is, you can make a decision to invest in the sound. The second thing I want to point out is that as your brand develops over time, it’s really important to look at your brand identity elements and make sure they still work well with your current product and service offerings. I was the guy who for many years, spent time designing logos and getting organizations to have a brand style guide. But one of the secrets to a successful brand style guide is that it’s a living, breathing document. And in the same way that Netflix has moved out of the home, into the cinemas, they needed a sonic rebranding. And finally, when you think about how your brand fits with other brands, make sure you’re playing the same type of tune. What I mean by that is a three-second sound. You works for the Netflix login screen in your house – but in a movie theater that THX sound to you that we played earlier in the show is 27 seconds long. You can’t have the standard quote, “are the speakers working” sound to be longer than the sound cue for your feature film? So give it some thought, what’s the sound of your brand and what can you do to get that sound out to your audience?

[SEGMENT INTRO – CROSSOVER SEGMENT – EXPERIENCE POINTS]
Joey Coleman (29:03):
The following is a crossover segment from the new game show that Dan and I have been telling you about – Experience Points – brought to you by our friends at Avtex who also sponsor Experience This, the new game show combines customer experience trivia with lively discussions on how to create remarkable experiences in your business. And along the way, we try to have a lot of fun with our guests contestants. This week, we feature a game called what happened with innovation and marketing expert and all around great guy, Rohit Bhargava, enjoy the segment and see if you can guess what happened

[CROSSOVER SEGMENT – EXPERIENCE POINTS][What Happened with Rohit Bhargava]
Rules Hostess (29:40):
In What Happened?, watch the first half of an experience story. Choose what you think happens next from four possible endings. Answer correctly, for 500 points. If incorrect, you’ll be granted an extra life and the opportunity to answer from the remaining three endings for 250 points,

Joey Coleman (30:01):
Let’s earn some money for Donors Choose, are you ready to get started?

Rohit Bhargava (30:06):
I am ready to get started.

Joey Coleman (30:08):
Let’s do it.

Dan Gingiss (30:09):
All right. This is Nate Brown. He is the Chief Experience Officer of at Officium Labs in Nashville, Tennessee. He’s a CX guy through and through. In fact, he started a group called the CX Innovators and not surprisingly, he had a customer experience story that he wanted to share with us.

Nate Brown (30:28):
Hello there Dan and Joey, Nate Brown here. And I do have an experience for you. I knew quite a bit of photography. And last year I had a lens and a Canon 85 millimeter, 1.2 that I really loved, but I just didn’t need it anymore. It’s an expensive lens. And one that was collecting dust. So I began the process of researching, how can I trade this in and get something that would fit my needs a little bit better, something a little more wide angle and landed, uh, at the site of a major camera retailer based in New York and, and called them up and, uh, got a really nice gentleman there who, uh, offered. Yeah, you could trade that lens in and we’ll be able to get you a new lens. Uh, that is very, very close to what you’re looking for there. Go ahead and send that lens on end my goodness. If I only knew what was about to happen, I would have just kept that darn thing.

Dan Gingiss (31:17):
Okay. So Nate sent his lens into the camera store. What happened next? Is it (a), he receives a new lens along with a handwritten note and a free tripod.

Rohit Bhargava (31:31):
sounds good.

Dan Gingiss (31:32):
(B) he receives a new lens that quickly breaks and then finds out that the lens was a fake. (C) the company keeps his old lens and never sends a new one, or (D) he receives a better lens than he expected. He enters and wins a photography contest with it. What do you think Rohit? What happened to Nate?

Rohit Bhargava (32:03):
I think that he, uh, I’m going to go with C company, keeps the lens and never sends a new one.

Dan Gingiss (32:16):
And tell us why.

Rohit Bhargava (32:18):
Uh, I don’t have much to go on on this one. So this one’s kind of a guess.

Joey Coleman (32:25):
I love the honesty Rohit of a guess – indeed indeed!

Dan Gingiss (32:31):
So what if we told you Rohit that you should guess again, because it isn’t C. So why don’t we use our extra life and choose between A, B and D.

Rohit Bhargava (32:48):
All right. Um, I will go with, I’m going to stay negative on this one and go with B because I chose a lane, you know, so I’m going to stick with the, I think it was a negative experience.

Dan Gingiss (33:09):
Is there anything other than that this company was in New York that makes you think that it would be a negative experience?

Rohit Bhargava (33:15):
Um, no, pretty much the New York thing. It gives it away. I think that was entirely, you know, that was entirely it. I just think that you couldn’t possibly have a good experience going to New York. That must be it. Yeah. That’s it.

Dan Gingiss (33:26):
Sorry to our viewing audience in New York.

Joey Coleman (33:29):
One of the great things about Experience Points ladies and gentlemen, it’s always fun to see the logic and the rationale that our contestants put towards figuring out the game. Rohit – you said B – that Nate received a new lens that quickly broke and then he found out that the lens was a fake. Let’s go back to Nate to see what actually happened.

Nate Brown (33:50):
So conclusion to that story, it was an elaborate manipulation. They did not deliver on the promise that they had made originally had to pay significant money in to get the lens that I had asked for. And finally got the lens after they overcharged me $700 on my credit card had to spend weeks fighting to get my money back, get the lens works for awhile. The lens breaks I call the manufacturer. They, I give them the serial number. It turns out this company had given me a gray market version of the lens that the manufacturer won’t even repair. So now I’m stuck with a broken piece of equipment. I’ve been manipulated. They’ve done nothing to make this right now. It’s, it’s incredible to me. I’ve reported them to the federal trade commission. They’ve been a nightmare for me. I’m going to be a nightmare for them. I hate it. I don’t want it to be this way, but they have certainly earned it.

Dan Gingiss (34:36):
All right,

Rohit Bhargava (34:37):
Victory. You know, those new Yorkers, I got to say, it must be that!

Joey Coleman (34:45):
That extra life paid off row hit. You got it correct. On the second tribe. Wow. What a story, you know, really at the risk of, let’s not bag on New York, right? But let’s talk about the fact that sometimes people can have a preconceived notion about what it’s going to be like to do business with you based on your geographic location, based on what your website looks like, et cetera. Could you talk a little bit about how, you know, a reputation can precede you, uh, depending on, you know, extraneous factors that your prospects, your customers might build into their consideration?

Rohit Bhargava (35:24):
Yeah, I think, well, this part of it’s nothing new. We, we, I think anybody in business knows when you give someone a negative experience, you know, they’re going to have that negative experience and they’re not coming back. I think people underestimate is just how angry people can be and just how vocal they can be about their anger. And you heard it from Nate, uh, where he, he didn’t just say, man, I hate them. I’m never going back. He said, I hate them. And basically I’m going to tell everyone who will possibly listen to me how bad they are. And that’s a viral kind of hate that. We’ve really got to be concerned about anybody in business, because when you screw up and you own up to it and you try and fix it, uh, that person might not come back to you. Okay. But they don’t turn into that vocal hater that tells everyone how crappy you are. They just shut up, which is kind of worth it. If you think about it because not everybody does things perfectly all the time, but to be able to at least get somebody to a point where they can keep their negative experience to themselves is a certain type of victory.

Joey Coleman (36:30):
Absolutely. You know, I think Rohit one of the interesting things is, uh, lots of businesses refer to their negative customer reviews or the people that aren’t interested as detractors. And I think that limits the actual impact. If we think of having, you know, either advocates or detractors, it’s a different conversation than having advocates, detractors, and haters. I agree with you. Nate’s a great guy. He’s a super nice guy. He’s a friend of the show, but you can tell that they went too far and it’s almost like he’s on a mission to kind of bring the dishonesty that he experienced, uh, to bear to the greater public. So people don’t get taken advantage of the same way he did.

Rohit Bhargava (37:13):
Yeah. And you know, I think, I mean, you may have even written about this, like the opposite of love. Isn’t hate it’s indifference. And so like, we don’t usually care until you make us care so much that we actively hate you. And at that point we’re going to do more work. Cause like, look, it’s easier for him to do nothing, right. I mean, he’s not waking up in the morning saying I’d love to devote one hour a day to talking about how much I hate these guys. Like nobody wants to do that, but because his emotion so high, like he’s going to do it whenever he gets a chance to, and appear on a talk show to talk about it. Right.

Dan Gingiss (37:47):
Yeah. And I, one of the things that stands out to me here is, and maybe this is just my values and morals, but I, I can kind of guess that, uh, that you guys share them with me is if you’re gonna choose the path of being dishonest with your customers, you may win that transaction, but you sure as heck are not going to stay in business long and keep customers for a long time. You know, I had, uh, an experience ironically in New York city as well, where I was recording a podcast, probably with Joey, and I had forgotten my microphone. And so I needed to buy a microphone quickly. And so I went to, uh, time square and went into one of those ubiquitous electronic shops. And I found a Sony microphone and it was like a hundred dollars. And it’s just was more than I wanted to spend, but the guy had shown it to me and said, nah it’s too much, I’m okay. And as I was walking out the door, he said, how about 50? And I was like, wow. Okay. So it was right at the a hundred was more than I wanted to spend. I decided at that moment that I was not going to check my phone because I really needed the microphone. So I bought it for 50, got back to my hotel room, looked up the microphone on Amazon $7 and 99 cents. Right. And so I feel like, and then I look at the receipt and stamped on the receipt, no returns. And I’m thinking to myself like, okay, I get it. Maybe you’re preying on tourists or what have you, but this is not a way to run a business, especially today. Whereas you say Rohit, the people have a voice on social media and they’re not afraid to use it when they feel like a company has taken advantage of that.

Rohit Bhargava (39:22):
Yeah, it’s true. It’s true. Um, and I think that people are much more willing to talk about that and feel better when they do.

Joey Coleman (39:30):
You know, I think if we were to roll back the clock in history to when everybody lived in smaller towns or villages, if your product or your service didn’t work, not only did you offend that customer, but because your entire marketplace was just that little town or village, all the other people in the town or village knew about it. And so as a result, I think people try to deliver a better quality product. They tried to be honest with what they were doing and as time went on and cities got bigger and we grew, and we started to have things like Dan’s talking about being a tourist in a city, buying something, companies got to the place where they could take advantage of the fact that there was a bigger world that they could sell to and the likelihood of any one customer really being able to cause them problems was pretty small so they could cut corners and be dishonest. The reality today is though I think with everyone walking around with a phone that has a video camera in it, that they can shoot a testimonial video video, either positive or negative and post it to YouTube or TikToK or LinkedIn, or even the Twitters. Cause I know Dan’s all about the Twitters, uh, you know, wherever you’re posting it, it can go viral and suddenly the entire world knows you’re dishonest. So I think even if we don’t go to the place of morals that you illustrate Dan, which hopefully that’s where the majority of people are. And I imagine, and know all of our great listeners, they’ve Experience Points are, uh, it’s now to the point where you can’t hide anymore, the reality will catch up with you. And boy, if you create haters, they’ve got a lot more power and ability today than at any other time in history.

Dan Gingiss (41:05):
All right, Joey, let’s recap. How did Roe hit do playing? What happened?

Joey Coleman (41:11):
Well in this game, correct answers are worth 500 points. And while Rohit didn’t get it correct on his first try, he used his extra life, any answer to it correctly, which means he earned 250 points. Those points convert into dollars, which means that Rohit earned eight $250 donation to Donors Choose. Congrats, Rohit! Great job!

Rohit Bhargava (41:34):
Thank you.

Dan Gingiss (41:35):
And that concludes this episode of Experience Points. Check out more games with Rohit and our other celebrity contestants at ExperiencePointsGame.com. That site again is ExperiencePointsGame.com. We’ll see you soon for more examples of remarkable customer experiences here at Experience Points presented by Avtex.

Dan Gingiss (42:05):
We hope you enjoyed that sample segment of Experience Points! For more game show episodes, head over to www.ExperiencePointsGame.com or you can visit Avtex’s YouTube channel, or your favorite podcast app. Just search for Experience Points.

[SHOW OUTRO]
Joey Coleman (42:29):
Wow, thanks for joining us for another episode of Experience This!

Dan Gingiss (42:33):
We know there are tons of podcasts to listen, to magazines and books to read, reality TV to watch. We don’t take for granted that you’ve decided to spend some quality time listening to the two of us.

Joey Coleman (42:43):
We hope you enjoyed our discussions, and if you do, we’d love to hear about it. Come on over to ExperienceThisShow.com and let us know what segments you enjoyed, what new segments you’d like to hear. This show is all about experience, and we want you to be part of the Experience This Show!

Dan Gingiss (43:01):
Thanks again for your time, and we’ll see you next week for more…

Joey Coleman (43:04):
Experience.

Dan Gingiss (43:04):
This!

Episode 115 – Making Every Touchpoint Matter Across the Entire Customer Journey

Join us as we discuss a camping trip gone awry, why every customer touchpoint matters, and thinking fast when money is on the line.

Camping, Optimizing, and Winning – Oh My!

[Listener Stories] A Camping Trip Gone Awry

Things We Mentioned in This Segment:

• Managing Expectations: A Customer Experience That Leaves Praise on the Table – Guest blog post by Jamie Drake on the Dan Gingiss Blog

[CX Press] How to Identify and Optimize Customer Experience Touchpoints

Things We Mentioned in This Segment:

How to Identify and Optimize Customer Experience Touchpoints – by Jessica Greene at Help Scout
• Charles Schwab

[Crossover Segment] Experience Points – Think Fast with Shep Hyken

Things We Mentioned in This Segment:

• Experience Points – presented by Avtex
• Shep Hyken – customer service and experience expert, keynote speaker, and best-selling author; think of him as the “godfather” of customer service
• Think Fast – Celebrity Guest Shep Hyken – Experience Points
• The State of B2B Customer Experience Report – by GetFeedback (at SurveyMonkey)
• Microsoft
• Ritz Carlton
• Fake or Fact?! – Celebrity Guest Shep Hyken – Experience Points
• What Happened? – Celebrity Guest Shep Hyken – Experience Points

Host Contact Information

Email Dan: Dan@dangingiss.com

Tweet Dan Gingiss: @DGingiss

Email Joey: JoeyC@JoeyColeman.com

DanGingiss.com

JoeyColeman.com

Subscribe to Experience This on Apple Podcasts

Episode Transcript

Download an unedited transcript of Episode 115 here or read it below:

[SHOW INTRO]
Dan Gingiss (00:05):
Welcome to Experience This!

Joey Coleman (00:08):
Where you’ll find inspiring examples of customer experience, great stories of customer service, and tips on how to make your customers love you even more!

Dan Gingiss (00:18):
Always upbeat and definitely entertaining, customer retention expert Joey Coleman

Joey Coleman (00:23):
and social media expert Dan Gingiss, serve as your hosts for a weekly dose of positive customer experience.

Dan Gingiss (00:31):
So hold on to your headphones… It’s time to Experience This!

[EPISODE 115 INTRO]
Dan Gingiss (00:39):
Get ready for another episode of the Experience This Show!

Joey Coleman (00:45):
Join us as we discuss a camping trip gone awry, why every customer touchpoint matters, and thinking fast when money is on the line.

Dan Gingiss (00:58):
Camping, Optimizing, and Winning – Oh My!

[SEGMENT INTRO – LISTENER STORIES]
Joey Coleman (01:03):
You listened to us, now we want to listen to you. By visiting our website and sharing your remarkable customer experiences with us, we can share them with a broader audience. Now, sit back and enjoy our Listener Stories.

[LISTENER STORIES][A Camping Trip Gone Awry]
Dan Gingiss (01:22):
My high school friend, and new virtual assistant, Jamie Drake recently embarked on a 25 day, 3,400 mile camping adventure.

Joey Coleman (01:33):
Wow! That’s a long adventure… let’s be honest.

Dan Gingiss (01:35):
Yeah, that is a long adventure, especially during COVID. And uh, so she goes on this adventure and she wrote about it for a blog on my website, which is@dangingiss.com. Now she spoke about managing expectations and this idea of leaving potential prays on the table when companies miss those expectations. So in much the same way that I love to talk about. And I know you do too Joey, about how creating positive experiences causes people to share with friends and family. We also know that creating poor experiences, not only causes people to share, but also can just cause them to remain silent and that can often be bad.

Joey Coleman (02:16):
And sometimes, that’s even worse because if they’re loud and they’re unhappy, you can at least do something about it because you’re aware of it. If they’re silent and unhappy, Ooo, now you’re in trouble.

Dan Gingiss (02:29):
Exactly. And you’re missing out on an opportunity to have a fan praise you. And in this case, you know, Jamie has a decent following on social media and she’s got an audience that knows that she is a camper. And so she’s sort of a mini expert in this field and could very much be talking very positively about this, uh, camping supply company that she went to and, uh, and dead isn’t. Now we asked her to not name the company, but the point here is that there’s a huge missed opportunity. So let’s have Jamie tell her side of the story here.

Jamie Drake (03:12):
I recently went on a 25 days, 3,400 mile Epic adventure with my family and our camper. Now we’re seasoned campers. And when the world told us it wasn’t safe for us to leave our house, we decided to figure out a way to take our house with us. We were in a global pandemic and we wanted to try a socially distant exploration beyond our front door, after so many months of staying at home. So we saw our chance and we took it. But before we set out on our journey, we really needed one piece of the puzzle. And that was a new camper. The one that we had was a bit small. We knew exactly what we needed. We had done this before and we set out to our local chain of a national camping store to take care of buying a new camper. Our expectations were high and our excitement was even higher, but as soon as we walked in the door, our expectations were lowered, and lowered, and lowered, as we were met with bad salesmen and sneaky sales techniques and told that we needed a camper that was bigger and better and more expensive than what we were looking for. We didn’t appreciate these blatant tactics to encourage us to spend more money and buy a bigger unit. The constant obvious efforts were distracting and made the experience far less enjoyable. Now nothing was going to detract us from going on this trip. We wanted to take this adventure. We just also wanted to immerse ourselves in the culture of the store and have the support we needed on the road. Now they bragged and bragged about the epic support that they were going to provide while we were on the road. Should we need anything? And of course we were let down at every turn when we reached out for help, they weren’t there. But, I did learn a few things about being a customer. And I realize that loyalty should never be taken for granted. My loyalty should have been earned. It should have been nurtured. And in the future, when I need to buy something for our camper or our camping trips, I’m going to go out of our way to make sure I’m not purchasing or interacting with this company again. So they missed an opportunity to not only create a customer for life, but to create a loyal fan and they could have been singing their praises, but instead they left that praise on the table.

Dan Gingiss (05:28):
So the rest of Jamie’s story, which she talks about in the blog is that she actually did need the company’s help during the camping trip. And several times tried to reach out to them and you know, the whole sales pitch was about, Oh, we’ve got all these locations around the country. So wherever you are, we can come help you. And when she called the local locations, they had no idea who she was or what she needed or why they, why she was calling them…

Joey Coleman (05:55):
or had, it sounds like, any desire to help. Not only did they not have any of the things that had been promised, but it sounds like the lack of experience or the commitment to experience was so low that they didn’t even see it as an opportunity to create a good experience, to live up to an expectation, even if they weren’t aware of that expectation.

Dan Gingiss (06:18):
Well, right. And we’ve talked about this in some other segments, like when we talked about car rental companies, for example, you know, oftentimes there is the city that you pick up the car and the city that you’d drop off the car and it’s the same…

Joey Coleman (06:33):
And the billion dollar fee you pay for dropping it off, not in the same city, which I never understood. How often does that happen? It’s like just free money for the car companies.

Dan Gingiss (06:43):
It is. But my point there being that you often have two different experiences with the same company, but with two completely different groups of people. And I think that’s what the expectation was here, but I actually want to start at the early part of her story because I thought was what was so interesting here was the slimy sales techniques. And we’ve kind of all been through this at some point in our life. And, and we’ve talked on this show about various, uh, uh, sales experiences that we’ve had. But I thought that it was really interesting because this was like shooting fish in a barrel. I mean, she walked in knowing she was going to buy it camper, not like a stick of gum, like a camper, a significant purchase!

Joey Coleman (07:26):
It’s a significant investment. And I would imagine in general, uh, in the general scenario, I’ve never sold campers before, but I would imagine there are two and only two types of people that come into a camping store: the ones that are there to buy a camper that day and the ones that are there to kick tires, I think very rarely does somebody go in and go, Hey, let’s just go in and see what they have. And later go, let’s just get a camper. Right? I don’t think that happens. So you’re really only trying to discern between two types of potential avatars, if you will, or personas – the person who’s ready to buy that day and the person who is going to need a lot more convincing, and we’re almost certain is not going to buy that day. And Jamie was clearly the ideal one, the one we want in sales, the person who shows up ready to rock, ready to make this substantial investment.

Dan Gingiss (08:21):
Exactly. And I believe it’s page one, paragraph, one of the sales handbook that says selling when you get a yes.

Joey Coleman (08:28):
a hundred percent!

Dan Gingiss (08:30):
Like you’ve already convinced me. And like I said, Jamie and her family walked in convinced they were going to buy and they had done their research. And I think, you know, something that we haven’t talked about on the show, I don’t believe in 115 episodes is this idea that customers have so much research that they can do before even walking into a store nowadays. I mean, think about back when our parents buying a car, it was yeah. Our dealership that knew everything about the car.

Joey Coleman (08:59):
They knew everything about the car. They knew what colors it was available and they knew all the parts, all the functions, all the features. Now I can get that in 35 seconds on a website. Oh. And by the way, if I’m interested in buying a ca,r or in Jamie’s case a camper, I’m going to do my research in advance. There’s a high likelihood that your customer walking in actually knows more about your product than you do, because they only have learned about one of them. They’ve narrowed the field to the one camper that they want. Whereas you might have a dozen different makes and models that you’re selling. Whereas Jamie walked in knowing this is the exact one I want with these features or these ad-ons or you know, these elements.

Dan Gingiss (09:41):
Yeah. So I, I think that was, that really stood out to me that here’s somebody who knows what she wants. It’s an expensive item. Why can’t this salesperson just sell it to her? Why do they have to feel like they’ve got an upsell or offer her additional features? And as she said, this started off the experience poorly for her. And so they haven’t even left on the trip and they already don’t really like this company. Now that is not how you want to start a relationship with somebody who is about to make a big purchase with you. Somebody who has it turns out is an influencer in this space. Uh, but, uh, you know, it doesn’t even matter if you’re not an influencer that you still have friends and family and colleagues that you’re going to talk to about this new camper that you bought.

Joey Coleman (10:24):
Well, I would posit Dan that in 2020, everyone is an influencer.

Dan Gingiss (10:29):
Well, everyone has influence.

Joey Coleman (10:31):
Everybody has an influence. Everybody has a network of people who probably have similar interests or likes on them. I mean, in my experience, somebody who’s into camping, probably as friends that are into camping, you know, that kind of thing. And so we miss the opportunity because I think we’ve defined influence or where the capital “I” meaning somebody that has, you know, a million followers on Twitter, as opposed to influencer, maybe with a lowercase “i” that is, Hey, within their network, whether we take Dunbar’s Law and say, you know, 150 people or Facebook, a thousand plus friends that they’re going to post about their camping trip on Facebook or on social media and tell people about it’s like, there are people that are being influenced by the experience. And that’s why every experience I would say matters even more than it used to.

Dan Gingiss (11:18):
Yeah, I totally agree. So look, here’s what we can learn from Jamie’s situation here with the camper, when you are a salesperson, or if you have a sales staff, it’s important to one personalize the pitch, right? And in this case, the pitch did not need to be. And here’s all the other things we have because this particular person walked in knowing what they wanted. Someone else might walk in and say, well, here’s the story. I’ve got a family of six and we want to do this. And we don’t like this and we want to cook. And, and, and they may offer you the opportunity to give them options. In this particular case, that’s not, what’s happened. Number two is trying to provide immediate value because the beginning of this relationship started off sour. Now you’re playing from behind the eight ball when instead they could have wowed her with the initial experience, you know, kind of creating that expectation. And frankly, that comfort that the experience was going to continue to be positive throughout the camping trip. As we mentioned, stop selling when you get to a yes and finally make sure that the rest of your organization can deliver on what the sales team promises. So in Jamie’s case, they promise, don’t worry, we’ll be there for you wherever you stop in the country. And that turned out not to be true. So if it isn’t true, don’t be saying it to your prospective customers. So learn from the experience of Jamie and the bad experience that she had with this camping company. And don’t make the same mistakes at your company.

[SEGMENT INTRO – CX PRESS]
Joey Coleman (12:51):
There are so many great customer experience articles to read, but who has the time! We summarize them and offer clear takeaways you can implement starting tomorrow. Enjoy this segment of CX Press – where we read the articles, so you don’t need to!

[CX PRESS][How to Identify and Optimize Customer Experience Touchpoints]
Dan Gingiss (13:09):
This week’s CX Press article comes to us from Jessica Greene at Help Scout and is entitled “How to identify and optimize customer experience touch points.” Now the article begins and I’m quoting customer touch points or specific places in the customer journey where prospects and customers interact with your company. Those touch points might be direct interactions such as getting a demo from your sales team, or they can be indirect interactions such as reading a blog post, you published. Each of your customer touch points has a direct impact on your overall customer experience. The way prospects and customers perceive your company. A poor experience at one touch point can easily degrade the customer’s perception of multiple positive historical experiences at other touchpoints unquote. And I thought that last point was super powerful, right?

Joey Coleman (14:01):
Dan, I was just going to say, we need to reread that right. “A poor experience at one touchpoint can easily degrade the customer’s perception of multiple positive historical experiences at other touchpoints.” So it’s not enough to get one or two of them, right? Folks, we got to get all of them and a bad situation can erase all the goodwill you’ve built up.

Dan Gingiss (14:24):
Yeah, it’s that old saying? You know, it takes years to get a customer and second salutes one century. It’s absolutely true. And unfortunately, a negative experience is just weighed more heavily than positive one. I do believe that companies kind of build up a, a Goodwill bank over time that if you have enough positive experiences, I think customers are more forgiving of a negative experience. You know, for example, a company I’ve talked very highly about in the, because I’ve been a customer for a long time, Charles Schwab, I had an incident the other day, actually it was a day where the stock market opened up at, it was up 1500 points and everybody was going crazy. And for the first 45 minutes of the trading day, their site was down. Ooh, that’s good. Right. But you don’t want it. I wasn’t, I, I was a little bit frustrated, but I wasn’t angry at them because I’ve had such a great experience with them since literally 1996, that I was much more forgiving. So I do think you can build up that Goodwill, but what Jessica says makes a ton of sense. She goes on to list 11 key touch points and then shares what can be done at each of those touch points to ensure a seamless customer experience. Now, the touch points that she covered are the company website, the blog, social media emails, paid advertising, customer referrals, sales calls, and demos, self service, customer support, renewals, and cancellation. I love that she included cancellation.

Joey Coleman (16:00):
Yeah. So did I say it’s like this entire article, everything it’s the last sentence is where all the gold is. I mean, there’s gold in all of these, but again, same thing, as she said before in the, in the segment that you quoted, you know, the cancellation, a huge piece of the customer journey that is often overlooked. And what I love about this list is that it’s actually not in sequential order because I think all too often brands presume that a customer’s going to come down a certain path. But what we know is someone might see the ad, which is in the middle of her list and then do a sales call, which is just passed that in her list and then say, well, you know, I’m not sure I’m going to go check out their website and their blog. And you know, what people are saying are social. So people are, you know, customers are jumping all around the journey. It’s not a singular linear path that they’re walking. And I think that brands and organizations that think more holistically about the journey and that the customer can enter from any direction and move in any direction, once they’re in the flow is a great way to catch all of the touch points.

Dan Gingiss (17:06):
Yeah, absolutely. The customer journey is not linear and there is not one journey because everybody goes at their own pace and everybody researches differently, et cetera. And I’d also like to point out that while Jessica does a great job with these 11 key touch points, there’s lots of other touch points that can happen as well. Just a few that, uh, that I came up with kind of just thinking off the top of my head, and I’m sure you have some too Joey, you know, customer surveys, or voice of the customer opportunities, the mobile app, older, uh, throwback, uh, marketing channels like direct mail and television advertising, for example.

Joey Coleman (17:46):
Absolutely! Or things like phone calls – hello! – or billing, which guaranteed there is some form of billing and/or receipts or payment process. Contracts, the actual use of the product or service that you’re offering, and then all the intangible touch points and tangible touch points that come from use, whether they’re needing to call in for more order new supplies or, you know, get, you know, new ways of interacting that come from the usage of your products or services at the end of the day, if we’re actually to map out all the interactions, it can be pretty overwhelming and pretty daunting. And then I’ll layer this up. One more level, Dan, as a general rule, I’d be willing to bet that whether you take her list of 11 or the list we’ve added on, we’re now covering about 12 different departments within the organization.

Dan Gingiss (18:37):
Well, of course, and I think it certainly goes to show you that everyone in your organization has either a direct or indirect impact on the customer. There are very few, if any people that have no impact, right? And you could say, well, what about the person in the finance department? While the person in the finance department might oversee somebody who sends out the invoices or might determine the pricing, or might determine something else about how the financial aspect of your experience works. And though they may not be in front of the customer and the customer may never know the person’s name. They still may have a really big impact on how that person perceives your company. So check out the article on Help Scout’s website, we’ll link to it on ExperienceThisShow.com it’s called “How to Identify and Optimize Customer Experience Touchpoints.” And when you get back to work, after listening to experience this, try to list all of your customer touch points.

[SEGMENT INTRO – CROSSOVER SEGMENT – EXPERIENCE POINTS]
Dan Gingiss (19:44):
The following is a crossover segment from the new game show that Joey and I have been telling you about Experience Points – brought to you by our friends at Avtex who also sponsor experience this the new game show, combined fun and trivia with lively discussions on how to raise the experience bar in your business. This week, we feature a game called think fast with our good friend Shep Hyken. Enjoy the segment and see how many of the questions you get. Right?

[CROSSOVER SEGMENT – EXPERIENCE POINTS][Think Fast with Shep Hyken]
Rules Hostess (20:14):
In think fast, you will have one minute to answer five experience questions for each question you must quickly choose between two possible answers. Correct answers. Given before time runs out are worth 100 points, five, correct answers will earn you 500 bonus points for a possible school of 1000 points.

Joey Coleman (20:36):
There’s big money on the line Shep – are you ready to get started?

Shep Hyken (20:40):
Let’s get this party started!

Dan Gingiss (20:42):
All right. So for Think Fast today, we are going to be giving some questions grom a recent report from our friends at GetFeedback by SurveyMonkey. This is the “State of B2B Customer Experience Report.” Now we know that you work with lots of B2B companies and that you are after all the godfather of customer experience. So they should be a piece of cake for you. You ready to go?

Shep Hyken (21:08):
I’m ready.

Dan Gingiss (21:09):
All right, Joey, give us 60 seconds on the clock and let’s make some money. What percentage of B2B companies think their company is delivering an excellent customer experience? 48% or 68%?

Shep Hyken (21:20):
68%.

Dan Gingiss (21:24):
What percentage didn’t have even one part-time person taking ownership of CX initiatives, 24% or 42%?

Shep Hyken (21:34):
42%.

Dan Gingiss (21:36):
What do B2B companies report is the number one challenge to customer experience. Is it organization silos or executive sponsorship?

Shep Hyken (21:44):
I’m going with executive sponsorship?

Dan Gingiss (21:48):
90% of B2B said there is good value in customer feedback. What percent understand how their customers perceive their experiences? 58% or 70%?

Shep Hyken (21:58):
58%.

Dan Gingiss (22:00):
And finally, what percent is say improving customer experience at their company is important or very important. Is it 75% or 87%?

Shep Hyken (22:07):
87%.

Dan Gingiss (22:08):
The time is running out 87!

Joey Coleman (22:12):
With barely a second to spare! There wasn’t even a second. It was like we were at the Olympics. It was ticking over. Wow. That was fast!

Shep Hyken (22:20):
I was worried whether Dan was going to finish the question before the clock ran out!

Dan Gingiss (22:24):
I told you I’d finish man!

Joey Coleman (22:26):
We were rooting for you buddy. Oh, you did a great job getting through all five of those. Now let’s see how you did.

Dan Gingiss (22:34):
All right. On the first question, which was, what percentage of B2B companies think their company is delivering an excellent customer experience? You said 68%. The answer is 48%.

Shep Hyken (22:50):
Well, that’s a shame because that report is wrong! No, I just, I’m just kidding. You know, there’s this huge disconnect between what companies think they’re doing and what the customers are actually perceiving to the point where it’s an overwhelming majority of leadership thinks their companies are doing far better than they actually are.

Joey Coleman (23:11):
Absolutely.

Shep Hyken (23:13):
That’s where I came up with that one.

Dan Gingiss (23:14):
A second question is what percentage didn’t have even one part-time person taking ownership.

Shep Hyken (23:21):
And I bet I blew this one.

Dan Gingiss (23:22):
You said 42%. And the answer is – 42%! Good job.

Shep Hyken (23:29):
That word “part-time” as I looked at it, was it not even one part-time person? Yeah. So there you go, 42. And that blows my mind because even if you look at 10 years ago, there were reports showing that by the year 2020 customer experience is going to be like the number one most important initiative that companies should have. And yet look at this.

Dan Gingiss (23:49):
And I can say from reading this report, what this actually means is it is not a single person full-time or part-time that is working on it. That is dedicated to it. Not a single person. Yeah.

Shep Hyken (24:01):
If I had to read it again, I would have probably got it wrong because that part time they got to have somebody, at least part-time caring about it.

Dan Gingiss (24:08):
42% say they don’t. So the next question, what to be B2B companies report as the number one challenge to customer experience. You said executive sponsorship, the answer is organization silos.

Shep Hyken (24:25):
Which is symptomatic of a lack of executive sponsorship.

Dan Gingiss (24:33):
Well, sir, unfortunately it’s still the wrong answer, but hey, good try. Um, question number four 90% of B2B said there’s good value in customer feedback. What percentage understand how their customers perceive their experience? You said 58%. The answer is 58%. Very good, sir.

Shep Hyken (24:58):
I’m batting 500 right now. Is that right?

Dan Gingiss (25:01):
Well, we got one more. Let’s see…

Dan Gingiss (25:02):
I just want to say that if I were a baseball player, I’d have one freaking huge contract right now.

Dan Gingiss (25:09):
That’s true. That’s true. All right. The final question was what percentage say improving customer experience at their company is important or very important? You said 87% and the answer is 87%. Well done, sir.

Joey Coleman (25:27):
Ooo Shep! Fantastic. Well, thank you very much. Love it. Love it. Well Shep, you know, these questions all speak to, as you said, the disconnect between what companies say is important to them and what they actually do. Why is it you think that so many companies claim that customer experience is a high priority, but it really hasn’t been elevated to that business level objective. They haven’t put the resources, the people, the effort behind it, as much as they put the lip service behind it.

Shep Hyken (26:03):
So there’s actually so many different ways you can go with this answer, but I’ll say a couple of things. Number one, um, I do believe that executive sponsorship or leaderships leadership sponsorship as it was called, is an issue within many companies. They talk about it and yet they don’t necessarily act as the role model. They don’t create the service vision. It becomes like a theme at a particular time when they receive a complaint. And then that becomes the next most important thing for the next three months, till they move on to something else, the best of the best companies decide. This is super important to them. They make it part of their culture. Uh, it’s it’s built into how they hire people. And, and I think that’s where, uh, I don’t know if I’m getting away from your original question, but if that’s what they want to do to take the business to the next level, they need to be thinking it’s not a department, it’s a culture, it’s philosophical, everybody’s involved. And we need to show people, everybody, the person in the warehouse, somebody behind the scenes that never sees a customer, we need to show them just how important their role is to the other people they work with and the outside customer,

Dan Gingiss (27:14):
You know, Shep one of the things that was interesting to me about this study and what might’ve caused you to get that first question wrong was that this was only B2B companies. And I don’t know about you. I know all three of us have spoken on many stages about customer service and customer experience. One of the questions that I get the most often when I walk off the stage is does this apply to B2B? And my answer, which might be slightly more sarcastic than yours is at depends. Do you market to human beings? And I sort of pause there and they’re like, uh, yes. I’m like, well then it applies because human beings are consumers in their real life. And as, as we all know, you’re being compared to every experience that they’ve had, but I’m wondering why do we, why is that still a question and why the B2B companies somehow either feel that they’re exempt or don’t have the same kind of infrastructure technology operations that B2Cs have to make CX a priority?

Shep Hyken (28:15):
Well, B2C is primarily a retail type of feeling to it or a frontline feeling to it, a consumer, feeling to it. However B2B is different. And that, and as you get to B2B where I don’t think we’re looking at, you know, a software company that sells to consumers, uh, I mean, I’ll even say Microsoft, even though they’re B2B, they’re very frontline retail focus with certain products. They have, however, then you get into manufacturers and I have a client that said, uh, they’re in the kind of automation, robotics industry. They sell huge equipment to factories. If they blow it, if they blow it, it’s not just a little mistake and a competitor comes in. It could be 15 years before that piece of machinery gets replaced. And they refer to that as a generational mistake. It takes a full generation before you have a chance to go in there and get that business back if you lose it. So I believe that customer service and experience is far more important at those levels. I mean, if I walk into a mall and I, Oh, there’s a store that sells the jeans that I’m looking for, I may not even notice the name of the store. If I’m just going in to get an item. Uh, now I’m really not that kind of person. I, I have my person that I like to buy from an a particular store. They know what I want, but a lot of people think this way and if I’m treated poorly, I just go onto the next store or the next store, the next store in the mall. There’s so many to choose from, by the way, when I come back to the mall, I may or may not remember that experience. I might try them again, by the way, two or three times have a bad experience and I’m not going back. Most likely a lot of customers say it only takes me one, but in that B2B world, Oh my gosh, if you blow it, it could be big. It can be it. It’s not like Joe w you know, somebody else will buy another pair of jeans. No, when’s the next person that’s going to buy that, you know, $2 million piece of equipment, or the next opportunity we have with that company, it could be big,

Joey Coleman (30:20):
You know, Shep it’s so true. And I was really taken aback by your comment of a generational mistake. I mean, that, that really, I think puts, uh, cuts right to the chase on how significant the impact of some of these things can be on a business. We’ve talked kind of strategically about the importance of paying attention to customer experience in a B2B scenario, a business to business scenario. Um, and we’ve talked about, you know, obviously from the results of the game that most companies aren’t giving it the time and attention it deserves. You mentioned that the power of a culture and an organization, uh, being committed to this type of endeavor, what would you say are maybe one or two tactical things that our listeners and viewers could do? I mean, we’ve got a lot of folks who are, uh, you know, kind of running customer experience at organizations, but we’ve also got a lot of people that are fans of the show that are more practitioners, any thoughts on a tactical idea or two to infuse that customer experience into the B2B environment?

Shep Hyken (31:25):
Sure. Well, I mean, I really got to go back to the top and that’s where leadership simply defines what a customer experience vision is for the company. And I want them to define it in a way that’s memorable and easy for everybody to get into their brain. Um, I know it’s not B2B, but let’s go back to my good friends at the Ritz Carlton. You’ve known me for years. I’ve been talking about them for years. Their nine word credo “we’re ladies and gentlemen, serving ladies and gentlemen,” it’s nine words. When you come to work at the Ritz, that basically, you know what that’s about, you understand it, and then they train to it training. And it’s not something you did. It’s something you do ongoing, constantly reminding and reinforcing and sharing stories about when it’s working and what it really stands for. And that’s, what’s going to get that organization to start to get into alignment with a customer focused culture and start heading in the right direction, by the way, this credo or mantra, whatever you want to call it, this vision it’s permanent. You can’t say this is this year’s theme. This is what you do once you and live with it, change it, modify it for the first six months till you finally get to where, you know, this is what I want to live with the rest of my life, or at least close to it for years, at least.

Dan Gingiss (32:39):
All right. Cool. Well Joey, let’s recap how Shep scored playing think fast

Joey Coleman (32:45):
In this game, correct answers are worth a hundred points and Shep answered three questions correctly, which means he earned 300 points. Now these points convert into dollars, which means Shep earned a $300 donation to the Michael J. Fox foundation for Parkinson’s research. Congratulations, Shep!

Shep Hyken (33:05):
Well, thank you. And thank you to our good friends at Avtex for doing this. And you guys are great hosts. You know, if this whole thing doesn’t work out for you, I think a game show host is in your future.

Dan Gingiss (33:19):
This concludes this episode of Experience Points and check out more games with Shep and other celebrity contestants at ExperiencePointsGame.com. That site again is ExperiencePointsGame.com. We’ll see you soon for more examples of remarkable customer experiences here at Experience Points presented by Avtex.

Joey Coleman (33:48):
We hope you enjoyed that little teaser game of Experience Points for more game show episodes, head over to www.ExperiencePointsGame.com that’s ExperiencePointsGame.com or Avtex’s YouTube channel, or your favorite podcast app. Friends – you can find Experience Points all over the place. Go check it out!

[SHOW OUTRO]
Joey Coleman (34:17):
Wow! Thanks for joining us for another episode of Experience This!

Dan Gingiss (34:21):
We know there are tons of podcasts to listen to, magazines and books to read, reality TV to watch. We don’t take for granted that you’ve decided to spend some quality time listening to the two of us.

Joey Coleman (34:31):
We hope you enjoyed our discussions, and if you do, we’d love to hear about it. Come on over to ExperienceThisShow.com and let us know what segments you enjoyed, what new segments you’d like to hear. This show is all about experience, and we want you to be part of the Experience This Show.

Dan Gingiss (34:49):
Thanks again for your time and we’ll see you next week for more.

Joey Coleman (34:53):
Experience.

Dan Gingiss (34:53):
This!

Episode 114 – What Are They They Thinking? Getting Inside Your Customer’s Mind

Join us as we discuss new ways to get inside your customer’s imagination, little details that help deliver big outcomes, and the excitement that comes from figuring out if something is real or not..

Imagining, Reading, and Faking – Oh My!

[Book Report] Inside Your Customer’s Imagination by Chip Bell

Things We Mentioned in This Segment:

Disruption – by Chip Bell (featured in the Inside Your Customer’s Imagination Songbook)

• Chip Bell – world-renowned authority on customer loyalty and service innovation
• Inside Your Customer’s Imagination – 5 Secrets for Creating Breakthrough Products, Services, and Solutions – by Chip Bell
Disruption as performed by Chip Bell (from the Inside Your Customer’s Imagination Song Book by Chip Bell)
• Inside Your Customer’s Imagination Songbook by Chip Bell
• Episode 33, Season 1 Would You Do That to Your Mother? by Jeanne Bliss
• Book Bonuses for Inside Your Customer’s Imagination by Chip Bell

[This Just Happened] Help Customers Read the Fine Print

Things We Mentioned in This Segment:

• Auditor’s Office – Webster County (Iowa)
• Episode 60, Season 3 – The Warby Parker Experience

[Crossover Segment] Experience Points – Playing Fake or Fact with Neen James

Things We Mentioned in This Segment:

• Episode 47, Season 2Attention Pays by Neen James
• Experience Points – presented by Avtex
• Neen James – leadership expert, best-selling author, and world class speaker on attention, productivity, and focus
• Fake or Fact?! – Celebrity Guest Neen James – Experience Points
• What Happened? – Celebrity Guest Neen James – Experience Points
• Think Fast – Celebrity Guest Neen James – Experience Points

Host Contact Information

Email Dan: Dan@dangingiss.com

Tweet Dan Gingiss: @DGingiss

Email Joey: JoeyC@JoeyColeman.com

DanGingiss.com

JoeyColeman.com

Subscribe to Experience This on Apple Podcasts

Episode Transcript

Download an unedited transcript of Episode 114 here or read it below:

[SHOW INTRO]
Dan Gingiss (00:05):
Welcome to Experience This!

Joey Coleman (00:08):
Where you’ll find inspiring examples of customer experience, great stories of customer service, and tips on how to make your customers love you even more!

Dan Gingiss (00:18):
Always upbeat, and definitely entertaining customer retention expert, Joey Coleman

Joey Coleman (00:23):
and social media expert, Dan Gingiss serve as your hosts for a weekly dose of positive customer experience.

Dan Gingiss (00:30):
So hold onto your headphones. It’s time to Experience This!

[EPISODE 114 INTRO]
Joey Coleman (00:39):
Get ready for another episode of the Experience This! Show

Dan Gingiss (00:44):
Join us as we discuss new ways to get inside your customer’s imagination, little details that help deliver big outcomes. And the excitement that comes from figuring out if something is real or not!

Joey Coleman (00:59):
Imagining, Reading, and Faking. Oh My!

[SEGMENT INTRO – BOOK REPORT]
Joey Coleman (01:06):
We’re excited to give you an overview of an important book you should know about as well as share some of our favorite passages as part of our next Book Report.

[BOOK REPORT][Inside Your Customer’s Imagination by Chip Bell]
Joey Coleman (01:18):
Earlier this fall, longtime friend of the Experience This Show and fellow customer experience speaker and author Chip Bell published his newest book – Inside Your Customer’s Imagination.

Dan Gingiss (01:31):
You know, Chip has actually written a staggering 24 books so far in his career, which if I’m not mistaken, Joey, even with your next book. And my next book is still six times or complaint.

Joey Coleman (01:46):
Yeah. 24 books is a really impressive body of work to say the least. And while we could certainly talk about any number of those books, what I’d love to focus on is his newest book for our discussion here today. And given that Chip has delivered so many different insights about customer experience over the years, I thought we should let him describe this newest book in his own words.

Chip Bell (02:11):
Every organization on the planet knows the only way to compete is through new products, services, and solutions. Most organizations turn to their R&D facility or best practices from other organizations or innovation centers. But wise organizations recognize there is genius and insight and ingenuity and the side, the imagination of their customers. They look for ways to get the customer to open that door from the inside, allowing them access collaboration and co-creation where their customer. But the question becomes, how do you, how do you get a customer to want to open that door, to invite you in? I’ve studied the cultures of the most innovative companies in the world and found that characteristic of their cultures are five secrets, secrets that all not only apply to an organizational culture, but also apply to relationships, especially relationships with customers. They include curiosity, grounding, discovery, trust, and passion. My new book Inside Your Customer’s Imagination provides the tools, techniques, perspectives, to go inside your customer’s imagination. How do you use these five secrets to get the customer, to invite you in? you know, a lot of organizations that you thought invented their own pop products and services came from customers. How back cake pops at Starbucks or Splash Sticks or the Frisbee or the, the Egg McMuffin. They didn’t come from corporate. They come from customers, look for ways to go inside your customer’s imagination.

Joey Coleman (04:19):
Now I love how chip encourages us to go beyond the ideas in our organization and to collaborate on new ideas from our customers. You know, lots of groups talk about having a, a skunkworks or customer insights or voice of the customer programs. But I feel like what chip is talking about is kind of taking it to the next level. Don’t you think Dan?

Dan Gingiss (04:40):
Absolutely. And especially your loyal fans are going to have amazing ideas if you just ask them and you know, the restaurant examples are great, but also a little bit more obvious, right? I mean, Starbucks has basically built a brand on people creating basically any drink they want the way nanny combination, there’s billions of different drinks. You can order at a Starbucks, but even thinking about a company that doesn’t sell food. How about something like an Intuit, which has been known for years of having some of the most engaged customers that have all these communities around the internet that talk about how to make TurboTax and all their other products better because they love the programs and actually want to help innovate and what company would turn that down.

Joey Coleman (05:36):
Absolutely. And I think there are so many companies that because of budgets or because of head count or because of just activities that they have going on often feel well, we can’t really invest in the research and development or the R&D as much as we would like to when they’re missing the opportunity to have R&D from their actual customers and get them involved. And so I think what is really unique about Chip’s book or one of the things that is really unique about the book is he gives you a playbook for how to do this, how to tap into the imagination of your customers. Now on top of that, speaking of playbook, he actually gives you a song book. Now that would be a song book, Dan. So.

Dan Gingiss (06:20):
I like this guy already!

Joey Coleman (06:21):
I figured you might. So chip is a musician. And what he actually did is he composed a number of songs that go along with the theme of the book. And so he’s got a bunch of different songs that we can play, you know, that are kind of illustrating some of the principles that he outlines.

Dan Gingiss (06:40):
Fantastic. Well, without further ado, we got to give our listeners a little taste of one of these songs from the song book that Chip Bell created for his book.

Chip Bell (07:43):
[inaudible] (signing “Disruption” from the Songbook)

Joey Coleman (07:45):
Dan, I gotta say, I love the creativity behind this. Now we’ve had some fun here on the Experience This! Show with music. And we had a singing episode that we did for the holidays, and I’m always a fan of an author pushing the envelope to try new ways to provide a content experience for readers. I mean, books have been around for millennia. And so how do you make a book stand out while you look about having you consider having different bonuses and having an audio bonus that is not the audio book, but rather the song book I thought was a really creative way to create a fun content experience. Now, speaking of the content experience, I’d love to share my favorite passage from Chip’s book inside your customers’ imagination. This comes from the chapter titled practice, eccentric listening, and I quote, “Start with empathy. Empathy starts with simply attentively listening while asking yourself, what must my customer be feeling right now? How might I feel if our roles were reversed, empathy begins by caring enough to give undivided attention. Think about what undivided really means. Not broken into parts. Empathy is enhanced through a reflective response. Receptivity to the customer’s feelings enables you to provide a tailor made reflective response that says I’ve been there as well. This gesture, another way of saying I am similar to you promotes the kinship and closeness that is vital to customer trust. Now we have spoken about empathy so many times we continue to speak about empathy on the Experience This! Show. And I imagine most of our listeners would agree that empathy is important. What I love about this passage is that chip highlights the importance of undivided attention and the importance of a reflective response.

Dan Gingiss (09:42):
You know, I happened to be reminded when you were reading the beginning of that passage about how might I feel if our roles are reversed and what most of my customers be feeling way back in season one in episode 33, we talked about our friend Jean Bliss’s book, which was called, would you do that to your mother?

Speaker 2 (10:00):
And, you know, she was sort of asking a similar question of like, can you stop and think about what you’re doing here to your customer and how they might feel? And, you know, we’ve said many times on this show, we’re all customers in our real life. So it’s not like these quote unquote customers are quote unquote aliens from quote unquote outer space quotes, quote, unquote, that’s true, but they’re just like us because they are consumers in their daily lives. So it’s not that hard to get into the head of your customers. So let’s now go to chip bell himself, the author, and have him read his favorite passage from the book.

Chip Bell (10:44):
There’s a beautiful golf course at the beginning of my long driveway, my Lake front home backs up to the shoreline, but fronts, the 13th tee box, uh, Jack Nicholas designed PGA course, it’s the setting for many golf tournaments. While the 13th hole is breathtaking, you play full hundred and 34 yards straight into the Lake. It’s the 14th hole that gets the golfers laments in the bar at the end of an arduous 18 holes, almost the entire 14th hole is played over the water where the Lake shoreline cuts deep into the golf course. Despite the fact that it’s a mirror, 186 yard par three hole, many a golfer has been psychologically distracted by the giant water trap and had their golf balls land in the water. But the best golfers know a secret – focus only on the hole. And don’t get distracted by the fact that your golf ball will be flying over water. It is a strong lesson for co-creating with your customer. It starts by having a clear focus. You can work on collaboratively.

Joey Coleman (12:05):
It makes me feel like I’m on the golf course. And combining my passage with chips, I must say that I empathize with the feeling of losing your focus because of the fear of hitting a golf ball into the water hazard. I’ve been there. I get anxious in those settings. You know, what I think is fascinating is focus is certainly something we all know is incredibly important, but I wonder how often we work to enhance our focusing abilities, what we do to get better at something as important as focusing.

Dan Gingiss (12:35):
Wait, what were you saying there, Joey?

Joey Coleman (12:38):
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Focus on focusing, thinking of you, focusing Dan, what was your favorite passage from the book?

Dan Gingiss (12:45):
Well, I particularly liked this one and here’s the quote, “The ritual happens thousands of times every day in restaurants around the country. You’re in the middle of your meal and the maitre D or manager approaches your table with the query. How is everything? And you politely respond fine unless something is really, really bad or really, really good. The Inquirer thinks an evaluation has been rendered by the customer. The customer believes a fair-weather friendly greeting has been delivered. The question is only a question in its form, not in its tent. Sure. It has a question Mark at the end, but that is just for show. Make sure if you’re asking a question, you’re genuinely curious and earnest to hear what the customer has to say.” And I loved this because we do ask questions all the time. It might be in a survey, it might be a passing. How are you doing today? And if you don’t care about the answer, then rephrase the question such that you do, because otherwise you’re just sort of wasting the other person’s time. And I love this example because how many times have we been asked, how is everything? And truly, I probably say fine every time, even if it is really, really good or really, really bad, because you know, I’m in the middle of the conversation or whatever. And so it is kind of a wasted question. I thought it was a really good call out.

Joey Coleman (14:08):
I agree. And I love that line. The question is only a question in its form, not its intent. And we felt that when somebody asks, Oh, how are you doing today? And you’re like, you actually don’t care. I know you are asking because you think it’s the plight or the appropriate thing to do imagine instead in a restaurant scenario saying of all the things you’ve tasted on your plate thus far, which one surprised you the most or which one was unexpected or which one would you like me to bring you a little bit more of these type of engaging questions, change the conversation and to be frank, that’s why I liked Chip’s book so much. You know, there are so many books to read when it comes to customer experience. And what I loved is that Chip is offering new angles on familiar messages. Now, certainly we’ve all heard about collaborating with our customers. We’ve heard about showing empathy about practicing focused, listening, really caring about the things our customers tell us. But for some reason, when I was reading Chip’s book, it helped me to see these topics with new eyes. And it gave me new found enthusiasm for doubling down on imaginative ways to enhance customer experiences. Make sure you pick up a copy of Inside Your Customer’s Imagination by Chip Bell and find ways to take your customer interactions to new and exciting places.

[SEGMENT INTRO – THIS JUST HAPPENED]
Joey Coleman (15:32):
We love telling stories and sharing key insights you can implement or avoid based on our experiences. Can you believe that This Just Happened?

[THIS JUST HAPPENED][Help Customers Read the Fine Print]
Joey Coleman (15:47):
Listeners know, I recently moved to my hometown where I grew up a Fort Dodge Iowa. And because I moved during election season, I had to register to vote because I wanted to do my civic duty and vote. So I wanted to register to vote, but long story short in order to do that and to make sure I was well taken care of in time to get my vote counted. I had to go to the auditor’s office. Have you ever been to the County auditor’s office Dan?

Dan Gingiss (16:17):
Good Lord No!

Joey Coleman (16:19):
Yeah, this is the first for me as well. I was like, where is the auditor’s office and what do I need to do? And so I went online and I found out the information that I needed and how I would basically be able to register to vote and to vote at the same place at the same time while I was registering. So I was like, Oh, this is great. I can do my civic duty and we get everything taken care of. And when I walked into the auditor’s office, I observed something that I have never seen before on the reception desk, there was a little jar of pens. Now I’ve been in plenty of places where there’s a little jar of pens, but there was also a jar filled with reading glasses of different prescriptions that were available for public use. So that I presume basically somebody who’s going to read a government form or the fine print, and they’ve forgotten their glasses at home, or they need some to be able to read the forms they’re filling out. They can select a pair of reading glasses from the jar in case they don’t have theirs with them.

Dan Gingiss (17:21):
Now, setting aside the fact that during COVID I ain’t touching no,

Joey Coleman (17:25):
probably not a good idea during COVID we’ll avoid any commentary on the state of Iowa and their COVID response friends. Okay. We’re we’re just, we’re going to let that pass for now.

Dan Gingiss (17:35):
Yes, but overall, I think that’s a really interesting and thoughtful idea. I mean, I’ve seen the, like the reverse where they collect eyeglasses, you know, used eyeglasses so they can donate them or give them to people in need, but I’ve never seen here’s a choice of eyeglasses or reading glasses. If you can’t read the forums, I think that’s fascinating. And I’d love to ask them how often people use it. I mean, it must be reasonably enough because they have it, but I’ve never seen that before either. Great, great job. Noticing a di a unique experience. Yeah.

Joey Coleman (18:11):
Well, thanks, Dan. You know, as we say on the show, uh, Dana, and I say this to each other all the time, if you just pay attention, the show writes itself, folks, we can come up with these stories all day long because there’s so many interesting experiences out in the world. And I agree with you. I found myself wondering how did this happen? Did so many people forget their reading glasses like in their car. And to be clear, this, the auditor’s office is several floors up at the County courthouse. And it’s pretty far away from where the parking is. So I could see a scenario where, you know, somebody came to the auditor’s office and Oh, I forgot my reading glasses in the car and they’re not going to traipse all the way down. And then as the auditor having to read the form to the person, I don’t know, like I’m fascinated by what happened to create a jar of reading glasses sitting on the reception desk.

Dan Gingiss (18:58):
I am fascinated by that too. And I would certainly love to hear the answer. In fact, I think at some point we’re going to have to send you out to do an Experience This Live.

Joey Coleman (19:08):
I think we can do that over the auditor interview. I like it. Yeah. I think what’s interesting about this though, is the spirit of this example. I’m not saying that everybody listening should have a jar of reading glasses at your reception desk. What I am saying is we need to explore ways to help our customers do business with us. Now in past episodes, we talked about, for example, the coloring book that, uh, was available for kids at Warby Parker. So while their parents were shopping, the kids could color in the coloring book and be entertained.

Dan Gingiss (19:45):
Oh yeah, of course. That was Episode 60 in season three.

Joey Coleman (19:49):
Thank you, Rain Man, for that library reference to our past recorded episodes, listeners may or not remember that one, given that it was way back in season three, but I’ve also observed things like toys at the chiropractor’s office to keep the kids entertained while you’re getting an adjustment or books at the dentist office for if you’re waiting for a long time, you can kind of dive into a novel, these things that help people have a better experience. Why they’re doing business with you is one thing. But the reading glasses actually help them do business with you, right. To be able to see the forms you’re being asked to fill out. And so I thought this was an, was an interesting example.

Dan Gingiss (20:28):
Yeah. And I think that one of the things to remember here is know your customer. I’m guessing that people that come into the auditor’s office might be older and may have maybe more apt to need reading glasses. And that might be why I’m just guessing here, but that might be why they felt that it was necessary. You might find that your customers are technologically inclined, or if they’re sitting in a waiting room for a long time are on their phones. And so you might consider putting phone chargers in there because it’s just a nice touch and people appreciate it. And so it’s the little things that matter. We said it so many times on this show. And, uh, I think, uh, certainly if I were in need of reading glasses, I’d be really happy that they were there. And even if I weren’t, I think I’d at least notice them and sort of appreciate the gesture. Even if the gesture didn’t specifically benefit me.

Joey Coleman (21:26):
Absolutely. And that’s the thing, I’m not at a point where I need reading glasses, but I saw that and I immediately thought better of the auditor’s office. This is my first time in the auditor’s office. I’m in a new community. There’s so much negative criticism about government and government services and here I am trying to vote and I witness that the auditor’s office in Webster County in Iowa cared enough to put reading glasses in a jar for their customers or the citizens who were coming to the auditor’s office to use. So what’s the takeaway here, friends. The takeaway is not go get a bunch of reading glasses to put in your waiting room. The takeaway is to look at the places where your customers first come into interaction with you and maximize those first few minutes, make those first few minutes all about helping your customer to do business with you, helping them feel comfortable, helping them feel welcomed, helping them feel appreciated, helping them feel taken care of wherever you can anticipate what needs your customer has and deliver on those early in the relationship. That’s a great way to set a foundation for the remarkable customer experiences to come.

[SEGMENT INTRO – CROSSOVER SEGMENT – EXPERIENCE POINTS]
Joey Coleman (22:49):
As you’ve heard on the show throughout this season, we’ve got a brand new game show that we are doing called experience points and Dan and I thought it would be fun to share a crossover segment. So what you’re going to hear now is our good friend, Neen James, who is absolutely an incredible human being. You may recall. We talked about her book attention pays back in season two, episode 47, and you’re going to get a chance to hear Neen James, as she plays Experience Points and in the process wins some great money for her favorite charity. Well, teaching you a thing or two about creating remarkable customer experiences. So check out this episode of Experience Points with the incomparable Neen James

[CROSSOVER SEGMENT – EXPERIENCE POINTS][Fake or Fact with Neen James]
Rules Hostess (23:39):
In fake all fact examine three similar experiences. Some are real. Some are your task is to determine the fake from the fact each experience currently detected as worth 100 points. Three, correct answers will earn you 200 bonus points for a possible school of 500 points.

Joey Coleman (24:00):
Are you ready to get started?

Neen James (24:02):
Hey, I’m ready. Let’s do this.

Joey Coleman (24:04):
All right. Let’s jump into the game. So subscription boxes are all the rage so much so that the global research and advisory company Gartner projects that by 2023, 75% of all companies that sell direct to consumers will offer some type of subscription-based service. We’re going to show you three potential monthly subscriptions that someone could sign up for and you get to determine whether they are fake or fact here they are. The first one, a monthly subscription to bacon.

Neen James (24:44):
Fact! Absolutely hands down! Bacon goes with everything!

Joey Coleman (24:50):
Neen is so excited about bacon! Let me show you all three first and then you can tell us what you think they’re fake. I love that the fake, it just catapult you forward in the game. All Right. So Subscription number two, pickup trucks, where you get a new pickup truck every month subscription, number three guitars where you can get a new guitar every month. Now these are the three potential monthly subscriptions mean it’s your turn now to decide which ones are fake or fact and tell us why. So the first one is bacon. You rushed. I think we know your answer. You think it is fact. And why do you think it’s fact Neen?

Neen James (25:35):
Because everyone, almost everyone loves bacon. They may not want to admit that they love bacon, but they love it so much that they would happily subscribe to a monthly bacon box.

Joey Coleman (25:46):
I love the enthusiasm for bacon. I agree with you. I think there’s a lot of closet bacon lovers out there that may not want to admit it me. And you said that the monthly subscription to bacon was fact and you were indeed correct. There is a bacon subscription. Oh my goodness.

Dan Gingiss (26:05):
Bacon Freak!

Joey Coleman (26:06):
This one’s crazy. Yeah. It’s from a company called bacon free branding, by the way. Very cool branding. And I need to share this for those of you listening, as opposed to seeing the show via video, they offer a King size bacon is meat candy, bacon of the month club. Bacon is meat. Candy is what they call it. So big fans of bacon. Yes. Nene. You are correct. You are one for one. All right. The second faker fact option pickup trucks is a subscription to pick up trucks, fake, or fact, and why

Neen James (26:44):
Fake

Joey Coleman (26:45):
And what makes you say fake Neen?

Neen James (26:47):
Because I’m unsure about how you would handle the logistics of that. So I’m thinking from a logistics experience, point of view, you would just get kind of used to setting up all the things that you love about your pickup truck. And then you change to another one. So I’m going to say Fake.

Joey Coleman (27:04):
Interesting. And to be clear, you’re saying the experience for the customer of getting everything set up logistically, as opposed to the logistics of the pickup truck company, getting you a new pickup every month, correct? Gotcha. I like it. Well, Neen, you believe it’s fake. And in fact, it is fake! Two for two Neen! What’s fascinating about this one is there actually are car subscription companies. BMW offers one, Porsche, Mercedes. These various companies allow you to subscribe to a different car where you can go and swap out the car for a new one, but no one has done it for pickup trucks yet. So you are correct Neen feeling good. Let’s go to the third one guitars, a subscription to get a new guitar need fake or fact?

Neen James (27:53):
This is a hard one. I think he could go either way with this one. Cause I know people in my life who would happily subscribe to that box that I’m going to go with fake. And the reason I’m gonna go with fake is to be able to provide for the guitar lover who enjoys those premium products. I’m thinking that potentially the reason is because the price point is a very small market that would subscribe to that box.

Joey Coleman (28:22):
Gotcha. So Neen says fake, but sadly it’s fact, Oh, there is a group Guitar Affair. Is there a name that allows you to subscribe and get a new guitar every month you send the old one back and you get a new one, a last so close, but two for three needs. Why do you think subscription boxes are all the rage? Like everybody seems to be getting one or creating one. Why do you think that is?

Neen James (28:49):
I love being a butt and I’m one of those consumers. I get multiple subscription boxes. And one of the things that I love about it is it’s a curated experience with someone has done the work. And then, because there are certain products, for example, with beauty stores, I get samples that I go and buy the full product. So I like that it’s curated, it’s convenient. And I also liked that it’s like a little present to myself every single month. So that’s one of the reasons I like it. And I think that’s the same for most people also too, at the time of recording. But people are spending more time in their homes. That could be another reason why I think they’re increasing

Dan Gingiss (29:27):
With both the guitars and the pickup trucks. It’s more like a Netflix model. At least as Netflix started off with the DVDs where you get one a month, you return it and you get a new one. Obviously you’re not returning that bacon and they couldn’t probably rip it out of your hands. Neat. And once they gave you the bacon, but, uh, I think that’s really interesting because you have this sort of two types of subscription services, the one where you get something that you keep and it is like a present the other where you get something to borrow and you get to try new things that maybe you don’t even want to keep. I mean, I love the idea of driving a new BMW every month without necessarily having to pick my favorite. Right. Uh, so I think this is a definitely a clickable and I’ve talked with a lot of companies, including some clients that immediately jumped to this idea that there’s no way they could have a subscription box. I don’t necessarily think that’s true. Even if you’re in the service business, not the, not a product business. I think the concept of why subscription boxes work can work in almost any business. What do you think?

Neen James (30:33):
One of the things that I advocate for my clients is that if you really want to get the attention of a client, whether it is as a thank you for an opportunity you’ve had together, or if you romancing a new prospect, I often prescribe these subscription boxes because it lands on their desk or in their home every single month. And I personally had success with that in my own practice. And so I was with one of my luxury travel clients recently, and they manage all sorts of kinds of travelers, but I had found them subscription boxes for leisure, adventure, uh, cuisine, family. And so it was really interesting that when you start to drill into this, I would challenge clients to really think creatively about this, because think about dollar shave club, they instantly just kept sending it in, who knew that was going to be a thing. Right? And so I think we have to think about getting the attention of people in a different way. Subscription boxes is a beautiful way to elevate your branding. It’s a fantastic way to get to know your customers even more. So I think they need to stay.

Joey Coleman (31:38):
Absolutely. And you know, Neen, I think it’s interesting, you mentioned that idea of taking someone from the prospecting stage through to the customer stage. What I love about subscription boxes is the continued connection. It’s to your point, getting in front of that customer on a regular basis, a monthly basis. And it’s a way that’s more fun than say sending them an email that’s Oh, just checking in to see how things were going, right? None of us like receiving that email or even worse, that phone call, but having a small little gift or subscription arrive is a great way to make it about them as well. I think the more you can learn about your clients and identify what their personal interests are, if you send them a subscription box every month, they’re thinking of you, uh, anybody who’s, uh, had the chance to hear me speak knows that I’m a big fan of root beer and I’ve had a number of clients get me a subscription to the root beer of the month club and so every month when that six pack of root beer comes in, it doesn’t have their name on it. It doesn’t say, Hey, still thinking of you, but I remember who gave it to me. And so I think there’s a huge opportunity here from gifting out of curiosity, let’s dive a little bit deeper into the benefit of a business, the benefit rather to a business of considering these type of forever transactions, like the power to lock the customer in on a monthly basis. Even if it’s to your point earlier, like a small sample set, can you speak me into kind of what you’ve seen as far as the long-term value of being able to build that relationship over time?

Neen James (33:15):
If we think about attention is about connection, right? And so when you have, as the business invested your attention, and I’m getting to know that Joey likes root beer and when Joey receives that, that builds an instant, not just the connection, but a loyalty, because given an opportunity for Joey to make a purchasing decision in the future, you might have competitors, their products by be cheaper, they might be more convenient, but because of that sense of connection and loyalty, which you’ve built up through the simplicity of this gift, this subscription box, that’s part of the differentiator. And what it also do does I think is that there’s, I believe in like there’s an unconsciousness to this as well. So we have often with treating things as transactions, but if you can be more transformative and you can think about how do I consciously connect to this? How do I intentionally pay attention to this person? Not just for the short game, but for the long game, because it’s not just about influencing their experience. It’s the 200 people they’ll tell about receiving that root beer subscription box. So when you think about it as like dropping a pebble in a pond, it’s the ripple effect across not just the people they know, but the stories they’re going to tell. If they identify the essay yacht club at their chamber event, that’s the kind of press that you can’t pay for. And that’s why the simple thought of attention is about connection. It has this ripple effect as well.

Joey Coleman (34:44):
So true Neen and boy, I think plenty of our Watchers and listeners would love a subscription to the wisdom of Neen James. Dan let’s recap how Neen playing Fake or Fact?!

Dan Gingiss (34:56):
This game, correct answers are worth a hundred points. And you answered two questions correctly, which means you earned 200 points. Now that 200 points will be converted into $200. Thanks to our friends at Avtex for a donation to Operation Smile. Nice work!

Neen James (35:13):
Thank you Avtex!

Joey Coleman (35:14):
Congratulations Neen. This concludes this episode of Experience Points. Check out more games with Neen and our other celebrity contestants at ExperiencePointsGame.com. That’s ExperiencePointsGame.com. We’ll see you soon for more examples of remarkable experiences here at Experience Points presented by Avtex.

Dan Gingiss (35:45):
Hopefully you thought that was as fun as we did. Check out more games at ExperiencePointsGame.com. Again, it’s the Experience Points game show brought to you by our friends at Avtex. And hey, we just want to add this little note. We know that this week is Thanksgiving in the United States. It is a time to be thankful and Joey and I are so thankful for you, our listeners, thanks for sticking with us for so many episodes, six seasons, over a hundred episodes. We really appreciate you and are very thankful for you on this Thanksgiving 2020.

[SHOW OUTRO]
Joey Coleman (36:31):
Wow. Thanks for joining us for another episode of Experience This!

Dan Gingiss (36:35):
We know there are tons of podcasts to listen, to magazines and books to read, reality TV to watch. We don’t take for granted that you’ve decided to spend some quality time listening to the two of us.

Joey Coleman (36:45):
We hope you enjoyed our discussions and if you do, we’d love to hear about it. Come on over to ExperienceThisShow.com and let us know what segments you enjoyed, what new segments you’d like to hear. This show is all about experience, and we want you to be part of the Experience This! Show!

Dan Gingiss (37:03):
Thanks again for your time and we’ll see you next week for more…

Joey Coleman (37:06):
Experience

Dan Gingiss (37:08):
This!