Dissecting the Experience

Sometimes a remarkable experience deserves deeper investigation. We dive into the nitty-gritty of customer interactions and dissect how – and why – they happened. Join us while we’re DISSECTING THE EXPERIENCE!

Episode 126 – Predicting Key Elements of Future Customer Experiences

Join us as we discuss the importance of being relevant to your customers, how augmented reality is helping to ease purchase decisions, and how to use data to drive predictive CX.

Expectations, Simplifications, and Permutations – Oh My!

Referenced in the Show

• Coveo Relevance Report 2021: Ecommerce

• Empire Carpet Augmented Reality

• Prediction: The Future of CX – McKinsey Quarterly

Host Contact Information

Email Dan: Dan@dangingiss.com

Tweet Dan Gingiss: @DGingiss

Email Joey: JoeyC@JoeyColeman.com

DanGingiss.com

JoeyColeman.com

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Episode Transcript

Download an unedited transcript of Episode 126 here or read it below:

Joey Coleman (00:05):
Welcome to Experience This!

Dan Gingiss (00:07):
The podcast that celebrates remarkable customer experiences and inspires you to stand out from the competition by wowing your customers.

Joey Coleman (00:17):
Each episode, we bring you a healthy dose of inspiring stories, funny interactions, and practical takeaways. Marketing and customer experience thought leader, Dan Gingiss…

Dan Gingiss (00:30):
shares the mic with customer retention and employee experience expert, Joey Coleman, helping you to get people talking about your business.

Joey Coleman (00:40):
So get ready because it’s time to Experience This!

Dan Gingiss (00:48):
Get ready for another episode of the Experience This Show!

Joey Coleman (00:55):
Join us as we discuss the importance of being relevant to your customers, how augmented reality is helping to ease purchase decisions, and how to use data to drive predictive CX.

Dan Gingiss (01:10):
Expectations, Simplifications, and Permutations – oh, my!

Joey Coleman (01:19):
Surveys, reports, studies, and reviews. There are some great resources that look at consumer behavior to find emerging trends and established patterns. We dig through the data and bring you the key takeaways in this edition of Inside The Numbers.

Dan Gingiss (01:41):
So I wanted to share with our listeners a brand new report out from a company called Coveo, which in full disclosure is a client of mine, but I’m sharing the report because it touches on a concept of customer experience. I don’t think we’ve talked a lot about, and that people generally are not talking enough about, and that is the concept of relevance. And they did a very interesting survey where they talked to nearly 2,000 consumers about their frustrations and challenges across three kinds of digital experiences: e-commerce, customer service, and employee experience. So I wanted to walk through this with you, Joey and our listeners, because I think this is something you tell me, are you getting what I’m trying to say?

Joey Coleman (02:33):
No, I agree. I think it’s interesting. When, when you said we want to talk about something we haven’t really talked about on the show. You’re right. Not only do we not spend a lot of time talking about it on the show, but to be Frank, it’s not a word that I hear come up in a lot of customer experience conversations.

Dan Gingiss (02:48):
Yeah. And what Coveo is trying to convey to people is that it should be the word that comes up in customer experience conversation. So let’s talk about these three experiences: e-commerce, customer service, and employee experience one at a time. Now with e-commerce I thought this was absolutely stunning: 90% of consumers expect online shopping to be equal to, or better than, the in-store experience. So Coveo CEO and chairman Louis Têtu said that it’s the Moore’s Law of digital experience expectations, which I thought was awesome because it’s interesting to put that. Yeah. Yeah. Instead of doubling the computing power defined by the original Moore’s law, he’s talking about the rapid improvement of relevant digital experiences and our demand for them.

Joey Coleman (03:38):
Yeah Dan, you know, in many ways while the percentage is certain – 90%, that’s huge/surprised me – in some ways, it didn’t especially given the dramatic shift to e-commerce that is especially occurred in the last year. And I think the reality is for years e-commerce solutions were presenting themselves as better than the store. It’s more convenient than the store. We have better selection than the store. You don’t have to get dressed up. You don’t have to deal with, you know, a clueless sales associate. You don’t have to be harassed in the store by people saying, can I help you find something? You know, there, there were all these reasons why e-commerce was stacked up as being so much better than the in-store experience. So it’s not entirely surprising to me that it’s supposed to be better. What was interesting is that 50% of customers, in their research, said that they sometimes, or always experienced a problem when shopping online, I got to tell ya, I pretty rarely experience a problem shopping online, but it was a good reminder that, uh, there’s a lot of folks out there that still aren’t doing a lot of e-commerce. In fact, I saw a post on Facebook a few weeks ago from somebody that actually is, uh, you know, is in this town, that small town that I grew up in saying, is it really okay to give my credit card to somebody online, like an online merchant ,to buy something from an online store? And this is in 2021. Now one could look at that and judge it and say, Oh my gosh, where have they been? How have they not purchased anything online up until now? But what I took from it is that they’re still a huge swath of the public that has not done a lot of online transactions.

Dan Gingiss (05:26):
Yeah, for sure. And what I also took away from it is half the people saying they’ve experienced a problem that is not good. I mean, that’s a problem – so alarm bells going off in my head. Now, one of the biggest problems that they’re experiencing is it shoppers just want to find what they’re looking for and this gets back to a discussion that we’ve had now for a couple episodes about user experience and 47% of those surveyed have challenges with website search, 42% say that finding information is the most common problem experienced online, and 43% are having issues with website navigation. People.

Joey Coleman (06:05):
That’s the darn navigation coming back again. We’ve talked about that before!

Dan Gingiss (06:09):
But why are we making it so difficult for customers to find what they’re looking for? It just doesn’t make any sense to me.

Joey Coleman (06:15):
It doesn’t, it doesn’t. I think, you know, the, the last piece of research on the e-commerce side that I thought was interesting in this report was that 43% of consumers said they’d pay more if they could find what they were looking for in just a few clicks. And the number was actually higher with millennials. And I think it speaks back to something. We have talked a lot about on the show, which is speed and convenience. If you’re going to tell me that it’s so much better buying it online, I better be able to find it online faster than I could find it walking around in the store, trying to determine what shelf it’s on.

Dan Gingiss (06:49):
Yeah, I mean, if we’re not shopping online for speed and convenience, then what are we shopping online for?

Joey Coleman (06:56):
Well, you know, there are some other reasons, you know, as far as like social distancing and you know, things like that, but it’s not enough to just be able to do it from the comfort of your own home, wearing your pajamas. Right? You need to be able to actually make the shopping experience faster than going into the store.

Dan Gingiss (07:14):
Absolutely. So let’s talk about customer service, which is another speaker out there who will remain nameless once said is “what happens when customer experience breaks.” That’s one of my favorite definitions of customer service. 73% of customers, according to this study will abandon a brand after three or fewer negative customer service experiences. Now, to be honest, what surprised me about this was that it wasn’t one. Okay.

Joey Coleman (07:42):
Right! Three or fewer… you were thinking the fewer was one!

Dan Gingiss (07:45):
Yeah. I mean three strikes – that’s a lot of strikes for a bad customer service experience, given that you’re not getting to customer service, unless something has already gone wrong with the customer experience. So customer service folks is the time where you have a chance to save the experience. And if things are still going wrong at the service level, you’re not going to keep customers for long.

Joey Coleman (08:08):
Interestingly, two of the top frustrations causing people to abandon a brand are the inability to find information, including contact information for customer service or content on how to use, fix, or maintain a purchase (that was 44% of the respondents) and then 23% of the respondents complained about getting conflicting information from customer service. Friends, when I call customer service, or when I contact customer service, I’m expecting them to know all the answers. And when I get conflicting answers from customer service, well that’s when customer service becomes a customer nightmare!

Dan Gingiss (08:48):
Absolutely. Now here’s something speaking of nightmares that should cause you to lose sleep and have nightmares throughout the night. 44% of consumers will rarely or never complain to a company about a negative customer service experience. Instead, they will just leave.

Joey Coleman (09:12):
The silent ghosters! The silent… you won’t even know! They just peace out. They’re done. They’ve had their Fill.

Dan Gingiss (09:18):
This is what I like to call the leaky bucket, and every company has one. We’re focused on the front door. We’re focused on bringing lots of new people in and increasing sales. And we’re missing the fact that people are walking out the back door while we’re not paying attention. And the nice customers walk out the back door and tell us what we did wrong because at least they give us a chance to fix it for the next guy. But most customers don’t do that. And here are the numbers: 44% are just going to ghost you after a bad experience – something that would keep me up at night, I’ll say,

Joey Coleman (09:50):
Yeah. And what’s crazy is the same research showed that 47% said that they would tell a family member or a friend about that negative experience. So here’s the freight train friends, they don’t tell you what went wrong, but they tell everyone they know what went wrong. This is kind of the double whammy – because not only do you not have the chance to improve it or to resolve the situation or retain that customer by trying to make it right, you don’t even know what happened. But that is the leading conversation they’re having with their network about why they should never do business with you.

Dan Gingiss (10:31):
Absolutely. But to end things on a positive note in this section, 53% of consumers are likely to tell a family member or friend about a positive customer service experience. Now we talked about this in the last episode with your niece, getting to drive the golf cart over the wall, what an amazing positive experience. And of course your brother told everybody about it. And guys that’s what happens when we have positive experiences. We want to tell everybody about it. So I was happy that the numbers here bore that out. That 53% are willing to tell someone about a positive, 47% will say the same thing about a negative experience. That’s both good news and bad news. Let’s move on to employee experiences. It’s just the third part of the study. And this was a little bit different, but I think still really, really interesting because relevance is important to employees also. In particular, when we were hearing before about people being frustrated from a customer service agent, either not knowing the answer, or giving conflicting information, often this is a problem with the training and the information that we provide to our agents. And so relevance is really key there too. Now, speaking of relevance workers reported in this study that they spent two and a half hours of every day searching for the information that they need to do their jobs. That is 12 and a half hours a week times the number of your employees, times whatever you pay them per hour. That is a lot of money being wasted!

Joey Coleman (12:03):
That gasp? Followed by a thud that you heard in the background? Was me falling over at this data! I am blown away. I’m, I’m not surprised, but I’m just shocked that in this day and age, we still aren’t giving employees what they need. And in fact, interestingly enough, with all the information we are giving our employees, a lot of it is irrelevant to their specific job. And in fact, the survey showed that 41% of all information was completely irrelevant to the specific job that employee had. You know, Dan I’m in the process of working on my next book, which is all about employee experience and let me tell you this research is not only supporting the case studies and the data that we have, but it’s just reinforcing that in every business you have your customer experience advocates, those same advocates need to be the employee experience advocates and vice versa. I would love to see everybody who’s in customer experience and customer service come together with everybody in HR and just say, let’s have a kumbaya moment, all of us who hold hands and make this situation better, because it is a nightmare for both the customers and the employees, especially as it’s clear from this study, when it comes to relevance.

Dan Gingiss (13:22):
For sure, I mean, 16% of people said they’re ready to quit because the frustrations around being able to find information to do their job, while nearly half of employees are less engaged in their work and feel less confident in their daily activities because of this.

Joey Coleman (13:38):
Yeah. And last but not least, this is, and we saved this one for last because this one, I think, ties all the other ones together, right? It ties the e-commerce to the customer service to the employee experience. 85% of employees are not completely confident in the information that they share externally. They’re worried that the information is out of date. It’s irrelevant, it’s inaccurate, or they aren’t even sure if they’re allowed to share it. Friends, 85% of employees aren’t sure. And if you don’t think that has a dramatic impact on your customer experience. Oh my goodness. I don’t know what to tell you.

Dan Gingiss (14:21):
All right. Well, if you’d like to see the entire report from Coveo, e’re going to drop the link in our show notes at ExperienceThisShow.com in this episode, and definitely check out this report because it is fascinating. And definitely we’ve got some good ideas now on what we can do to stay relevant to both our customers and our employees.

Joey Coleman (14:45):
Just because you have required elements of your business, doesn’t mean they need to be boring. It’s time to get creative, have some fun, and make people sit up – and take notice! Get your customers talking when you Make the Required Remarkable.

Dan Gingiss (15:04):
Joey, have you ever used AR ()or augmented reality as part of a shopping experience?

Joey Coleman (15:10):
You know, Dan in the interest of full disclosure, I have not, but I’ve thought about it. I’ve seen some of the various AR tools that are available for shopping, but I’m a rookie. I haven’t done it yet.

Dan Gingiss (15:22):
Well, the first time I was exposed to this and I may have told this story before was when I was in Tokyo, visiting the famed Ginza shopping district, and…

Joey Coleman (15:31):
one of the best shopping districts in the world – absolutely amazing place.

Dan Gingiss (15:35):
And I know… This was about 10 years ago, and I remember I was walking with, uh, uh, somebody who was working for a bank and they were showing me this was a pilot. It wasn’t even out to the public yet. And they were walking with their cell phone down the street and with the camera on, and as we were passing by stores, there would be coupons and specials and offers that would pop up from those stores because the phone knew that you were standing in front of XYZ store, XYZ store had so many offers loaded up, and you literally, as you walked down the street, your screen updated with the current offers that were going on at these stores. So really, really cool. I didn’t think a whole lot about it because I hadn’t seen it in any other it really out in the wild and not in the United States in awhile. Until recently, when my fiancée and I were looking for flooring and carpeting in our house. And we contacted empire today as one of the companies that we were getting a quote from, and they have an app where you take a picture of your room, you choose the flooring or the carpeting, and with one press of the button, your picture is transformed so that it now looks like your room with the floor or the carpeting that you’ve chosen. It is amazing. And my fiancée got a little bit addicted to this and sent me maybe a few dozen photos…

Joey Coleman (17:02):
Hypothetically! Hypothetically!

Dan Gingiss (17:02):
She spent hours on this app, testing out different colors, and flooring, and different carpeting, and different, you know, how all these different things worked and it was amazing because it really gave you a sense for, Oh, that’s how the floor is going to go with our windows, or our paint on the wall or, or what have you. And I absolutely loved it.

Joey Coleman (17:26):
Dan, I love this. And I know we’ve talked about this on the show, but years ago I found out that the best selling issue of Architectural Digest magazine every year is their before and after issue, where they show a house before the remodel and all the revisions that have been made and then they show a house after. And the reason scientists will you, that that’s the best issue is because most humans cannot in their mind picture what something is going to fully look like without seeing a rendering, without seeing a picture without seeing an illustration of it. This is why artists in many ways are so rare in our society because they envision what’s going to be on the canvas before they start. The average person can’t do that. And so it is not surprising that this app was such a wonderful tool for your fiancée to be able to use, to kind of see all the different variations, not to mention, Oh my gosh, it’s such an easier way than going to the store and getting swatches, which usually are about the size of a quarter of a dollar bill. Right. You know, it’s like, Hey, we, we didn’t want to give you the full post-it note size. So we made it even smaller and you’re supposed to lay 30 of them out on the floor and take a guess as to what the carpeting will look like in the room. Look, it makes no sense. I love the idea of these types of apps!

Dan Gingiss (18:48):
Yeah, it was great. And so, as we were enjoying this app, I did a little research because I knew I wanted to talk about it on the show. And I wanted to see are there other companies that are using this? And I was actually somewhat surprised to find out that there are a lot of companies now, what I had heard about before, but then went and looked at it on their website was Warby Parker – which of course we’ve talked about on this show, sells glasses. And of course you can try on glasses, virtually, take pictures, share with your friends, ask how people, you know, how they think you look. And I think that’s a great use case. Joey, why don’t we go back and forth and share some other ideas?

Joey Coleman (19:28):
You know, there’s a number of ones that do this, you know, kind of building off your empire today, experience, I know IKEA, and Home Depot, and Wayfair, and Target all have variations on a theme here where you can place individual pieces of furniture in your room, or in the example of Home Depot, you can put refrigerators or chandeliers, or various things, and actually see what it’s going to look like in the room by looking through your phone.

Dan Gingiss (19:53):
Yeah. And there’s other companies that do this Brilliant Earth is a company that does this with engagement rings, as it turns out that you can, that you can try on, but there’s a few that have started to take this to a different level that I think are really, really cool. Now, one that I wanted to talk about was Nike.

Joey Coleman (20:13):
I had a feeling you were going to talk about this. This is really fascinating technology.

Dan Gingiss (20:16):
Yeah. So Nike has something called Nike Fit. And what happens is you take a picture of your feet. And the first thing the app does is it calculates your exact shoe size based on the photo of your foot. And then it allows you to choose a shoe, place it on your foot and you’re placing the exact size shoe onto your foot, which is incredible.

Joey Coleman (20:39):
Absolutely incredible. Yeah. And from, from head to toe, as one might say. Sephora has a virtual digital artist that allows you to put makeup on and see exactly what you’re going to look like with the makeup properly applied in whatever shades and colors and styles you want. Literally, we’re going to be able to dress ourselves – from head to toe – using these type of augmented reality solutions.

Dan Gingiss (21:03):
And in fact, there are already contactless dressing rooms, which of course were invented before the pandemic, but probably became a little bit more popular during the pandemic where you actually don’t have to try on the clothes because you just stand in front of a camera and the clothes, basically the clothes try on you – which is an interesting way of looking at in concept. But probably the coolest example that I found was one from Lowe’s and they introduced something called the Holo-room Test Drive. Now this allows you Joey, to pick up a power tool, say, for example, you want it to test out a chainsaw. It allows you to put on a virtual reality headset and use the tool in a safe virtual space, because we don’t want to just hand Joey a tool, a chainsaw and see…

Joey Coleman (21:55):
As somebody who grew up in the country, I know how to run a chainsaw. I’ve run a chainsaw plenty of times. However, I do understand that desire. If you haven’t run a chainsaw, it can be a pretty scary thing. I mean, they made a horror movie about a chainsaw situation, gone awry in Texas. And..

Dan Gingiss (22:16):
True story – I bought a chain saw once and I returned it because when I took it out of the box, I was afraid to use it! So I can relate to that!

Joey Coleman (22:22):
This is the perfect app for you. I love it. The Holo-Room Test Drive from Lowe’s. Absolutely brilliant.

Dan Gingiss (22:30):
So what can we learn from this? Augmented reality/virtual reality are here and they’re here to stay and a lot of brands are using them. They’re trying them out. They’re letting customers try before they buy experience things virtually. And especially if we learned anything in 2020, we have learned that “virtual reality” became our reality is an important part of the buying experience. And these things aren’t going to go away. When people can return to stores, they’re still going to be there because online shopping and e-commerce continues to grow every single year. And the more that we can do to provide our customers and prospective customers with the opportunity to feel good about their purchase before they plunk down money, the better chance we’re going to get of gaining their business.

Joey Coleman (23:23):
Almost everyone has interacted with chatbots, but all too often, it’s been a bad experience. In MythBusters – presented by Solvvy – we explore a common myth about CX chatbots and see how the right technology can create a positive experience, every time.

Dan Gingiss (23:47):
Today’s myth about chatbots? Chatbots are ugly. Now that’s quite a statement – so let me explain Joey. A lot of the chatbots on the market look like a generic text exchange you’d have on your mobile phone. They’re not unique or visually appealing in any way. And even if you wanted to change them, they’re not easy to customize. Furthermore, traditional chatbots aren’t particularly well-designed. For instance, have you ever had a chat bot shoehorn, several paragraphs of text into a tiny text bubble? Overall, an ugly chat bot experience will turn off customers and tarnish your brand.

Joey Coleman (24:27):
Now the reality is Dan that next gen chat bots are designed to delight and can be configured to be on brand. There’s no more excuse for having an ugly chat bot, modern chat bots allow you to easily choose colors, fonts, and icons for a better customer experience that feels like an extension of your website or your app. And instead of dumping, a bunch of links or robotic paragraphs of text into a tiny chat bubble, next gen chat bots use their real estate well. They cleanly and concisely display the actual answer a customer’s looking for versus dumping just paragraphs of text into the conversation. If the customer needs an image, or a video, or a link, all of that can be displayed cleanly in a way that’s elegant and representative of the brand that you want to be in the marketplace.

Dan Gingiss (25:18):
So look – poorly designed generic chatbots are going to soon be a thing of the past. Thank goodness we’ve taken care of it in websites and mobile apps. So chat bots are next. Another great example of how chat bot technology is the best it’s ever been.

Joey Coleman (25:35):
And that’s another MythBusted – thanks to our friends at Solvvy, the Next Gen Chatbot.

Joey Coleman (25:44):
There are so many great customer experience articles to read, but who has the time?! We summarize them and offer clear takeaways you can implement starting tomorrow. Enjoy this segment of CX Press – where we read the articles so you don’t need to!

Dan Gingiss (26:03):
Today’s CX Press comes to us from our friends at McKinsey and the McKinsey Quarterly, where they offer up Prediction: The Future of CX. And I thought this was a fascinating piece because it broke out into a couple of parts. The first was talking about how so many companies rely on surveys to get customer data. Now, you and I have talked about this before, Joey, I like to think of customer data in two different buckets: We have the voice of the customer (or VOC), and we have the actions of the customer (or AOC) and smart companies put both of these data points together because let’s face it, what customers say is not always what customers do.

Joey Coleman (26:49):
Wait?! They don’t always do what they say Dan?

Dan Gingiss (26:52):
That is true. That is true.

Joey Coleman (26:55):
Shocking. Shocking.

Dan Gingiss (26:55):
You learn something new every day. So McKinsey found four flaws with today’s survey based customer experience measurement systems, which I thought were pretty interesting. The first was that only 7% of the customer voice is shared with CX leaders. 7%. So what that means is that if all you’re doing is surveying, you’re only getting us a tiny sliver of the actual voice of the customer.

Joey Coleman (27:23):
They also found that only 13% of CX leaders are confident that their organization can take action on CX issues in near real time. So even if you know what you’re supposed to do, there’s this kind of reactive disconnect where the leaders aren’t confident that they can actually take action.

Dan Gingiss (27:43):
Right? And only 16% of CX leaders think that surveys allow them to address the root causes of performance, which of course is that action that they need to take. And finally, only 4% of CX leaders believe that their CX measurement system enables them to calculate a decision’s return on investment. 4%?! That’s like, none!

Joey Coleman (28:04):
Yeah. That’s, that’s, that’s a rounding error.

Dan Gingiss (28:07):
Exactly. So Mackenzie asks and I’m quoting “[w]hy use the survey to ask customers about their experiences when data about customer interactions can be used to predict both satisfaction and the likelihood that a customer will remain loyal, or bolt, or even increase their business.” And their conclusion is that predictive customer insight is the future, instead of survey mechanisms. So they gave three different examples, which I’d like to walk through. The first was a leading credit card company and having worked at a leading credit card company, I have no idea if this is the one I worked for, but I don’t think so…

Joey Coleman (28:43):
We’re not sure, but it could be, but we’re not sure…

Dan Gingiss (28:45):
All we know is it’s, it’s a leading credit card company wanted to adopt a more omni-channel strategy and boost its performance in digital channels. It focused on building a CX data and analytics stack to systematically identify, improve, and track the factors, influencing customer satisfaction and business performance across 13 priority customer journeys. The team used the analytics platform to focus its investments and operational efforts on the journeys and specific moments that made a difference for customers. And it ultimately reduced its interaction and operational costs by 10 to 25% as a result of the CX and digital transformation.

Joey Coleman (29:24):
You know, Dan, one of McKinsey’s second examples that they used is one that I had never heard of in any capacity, but it makes perfect sense. There was a US healthcare payer that built a journey lake to determine how to improve its customer care. So the journey lake synced 4 billion records across nine systems, spanning marketing, operations, sales, digital, and internet of things. And the resulting holistic customer view enabled the organization to identify operational break points or thresholds where patients often ask to speak with a supervisor or move to another channel to resolve their issue. And then they could proactively reach out to patients through the website and emails and outbound calls to settle the problem. So this was that idea of really using big data to make, take big actions.

Dan Gingiss (30:17):
I love it and, and journey lake by the way, is sort of a play on what is often referred to as a data Lake, which is basically taking all of your data and it sort of feels like it’s just a giant lake because it’s coming from all, all sorts of different places. Uh, finally, a leading airline built a machine learning system that was based on 1500 customer operations and financial variables to measure both satisfaction and predicted revenue for it’s more than 100 million customers. The system allowed the airline to identify and prioritize those customers whose relationships were most at risk because of a delay or cancellation and offer them personalized compensation to save the relationship and reduce customer defection on high priority routes. A combined team of 12 to 15 data scientists, CX experts, and external partners work together for three months to build the system and lead this first application – which resulted in an 800% uplift in satisfaction and a 60% reduction in churn for priority customers. Now, I know you like talking about airlines. What do you think about that one?

Joey Coleman (31:27):
Airlines? That’s pretty crazy. I got to admit the 800% uplift. I was like, Oh my gosh, how bad were we in the hole that we could handle an 800% uplift?

Dan Gingiss (31:36):
How could it have been a leading airline if that was the case?

Joey Coleman (31:37):
But hey, what are we doing? What I really loved was the personalized compensation. We have reached a point where if your business isn’t looking to create customer experience on an individualized, personalized, customized basis, you’re, you’re falling behind. That’s all there is to it. I don’t care how big your company is. We’ve really got to shift our mindset to recognize that when it comes to remarkable experiences, it’s not enough to develop one experience and presume that it’s a one size fits all. We need to be ready to use the data, to make the predictions, and to be nimble enough, and agile enough, to customize those interactions on an individual by individual basis.

Dan Gingiss (32:29):
Yeah. And you know, a parallel example that I could offer and, you know, feel free to use this in your new book. Joey, is that, when you have a whole bunch of employees at a company, they all like recognition, but people like recognition in different ways. Some people want to be called up in front of the whole company and have everybody applied and clap and give an owner award. And for some people that is absolutely mortifying.

Joey Coleman (32:54):
It’s the worst thing you could do.

Dan Gingiss (32:55):
Right. And other people are more motivated by money, or just a pat on the back, or a little gift, or something like that.

Joey Coleman (33:02):
Or time off! Some people will just take it. It’s like, you don’t have to pay me more, but can I leave an hour earlier next week? Yes, that was all they need.

Dan Gingiss (33:09):
I was always amazed at how much “jeans days” were an incentive to people.

Joey Coleman (33:14):
Yeah – jeans days! It was killer. When I was growing up, I went to a Catholic school where we had a uniform and we used to charge for jeans day, sometimes as a fundraiser. And Oh my gosh, every kid was all in, you know, and it was like a dollar or $5. It was, you know, a fairly inconsequential sum to get everybody to participate. But we would have, you know, 99, 99.5% participation across the student body.

Dan Gingiss (33:40):
Man, I’d like to meet that poor kid that’s still showed up in his uniform that day.

Joey Coleman (33:45):
There was always, uh, the ability to, to like gift it if you felt somebody wasn’t in a position to do it, or you know, that we would plan, try to plan ahead for those things. But yeah, it’s, it’s amazing what little things can really move the dial when it comes to engagement and satisfaction and delight.

Dan Gingiss (34:01):
Yeah, with employees, with customers, with students, whoever it is. So finally McKinsey explained four ways to turn data into insight and action. Number one: work on changing mindsets. And I’m quoting here “[w]hen asked about the biggest challenge with the current system. One chief experience officer responded people, associate CX with marketing, not technology that is changing as more and more companies take up predictive analytics. And it’s up to customer experience leaders to help encourage the change in perception.”

Joey Coleman (34:33):
Number two: break down silos and build cross-functional teams. You know, Dan always teases me as a farm kid that my go-to saying is that silos make perfect sense on the farm and they are a nightmare in your organization. I can’t believe we’re still having this conversation about breaking down silos, but it’s because there are too many of them. We need to be more cross-functional. We need to share data and share, uh, predictions and share, uh, analysis across the various divisions in our organization.

Dan Gingiss (35:03):
And remember your customers don’t care how your company is organized. Only you care about that and your executives care, but the customers don’t and frankly, they shouldn’t have to care. Number three: start with a core journey data set and build to improve accuracy. I think this is a great idea. Sometimes you just need a small win, find one part of the journey that you can focus on gathering the correct data to provide a better experience. And then when you see how it works, you share that you gain the buy in and you start working on the tougher journeys.

Joey Coleman (35:34):
Last but not least, number four: focus first on the use cases that drive quick value. You know, this seems obvious, but the number of times I’ve been in a conversation with an organization where they identify three things they want to work on and they pick the absolute hardest one that it’s going to take months, if not years, to establish ROI on I’m like folks, let’s get some momentum, let’s get some quick value so that we build excitement for these types of initiatives.

Dan Gingiss (36:02):
For sure. So this, like all of our CX Press articles, will be linked to in our show notes at ExperienceThisShow.com

Joey Coleman (36:11):
Thanks for joining us for another episode of Experience This! You are the best listener ever!

Dan Gingiss (36:22):
And since you listened to the whole show…

Joey Coleman (36:24):
Yay you!

Dan Gingiss (36:26):
were curious – was there a specific part of this episode that you enjoyed the most? If so, it would mean the world to us if you could share it with a coworker, a friend, or someone that just loves listening to podcasts.

Joey Coleman (36:37):
And while you’re in the sharing mood, if you felt inclined to jump over to iTunes, or wherever you find your podcasts, and write us a review, we would so appreciate it. And when you do, don’t forget to let us know as we might have a little surprise for you.

Dan Gingiss (36:51):
Thanks again for your time and we’ll see you next week for more…

Joey Coleman (36:55):
Experience!

Dan Gingiss (36:56):
This!

Episode 124 – A Daily Dose of Personalized Experience

Join us as we discuss a new way to take your vitamins, how government regulations affect businesses, and creating intentional friction in e-commerce.

Caring, Legislating, and Preventing– Oh My!

Referenced in the Show

• Care/of – personalized daily vitamins – receive 50% off your first order using Dan’s affiliate link: https://takecareof.com/invites/dgyygc

• Facebook Encourages Regulation

• “Friction in e-commerce: Sometimes it’s a good thing.” – by Branwell Moffatt on The Future of Customer Engagement & Experience

• Season 5, Episode 101 – Agree to Disagree: The Benefits and Costs of More Convenience (discussing Privacy)

• Season 2, Episode 42 – Required Remarkable: Assembling Target Furniture

Host Contact Information

Email Dan: Dan@dangingiss.com

Tweet Dan Gingiss: @DGingiss

Email Joey: JoeyC@JoeyColeman.com

DanGingiss.com

JoeyColeman.com

Subscribe to Experience This on Apple Podcasts

Learn more about our Season 7 Partner – Solvvy – The NextGen Chatbot

Episode Transcript

Download an unedited transcript of Episode 124 here or read it below:

Joey Coleman (00:05):
Welcome to Experience This!

Dan Gingiss (00:07):
The podcast that celebrates remarkable customer experiences and inspires you to stand out from the competition by wowing your customers.

Joey Coleman (00:17):
Each episode, we bring you a healthy dose of inspiring stories, funny interactions, and practical takeaways. Marketing and customer experience thought leader Dan Gingiss…

Dan Gingiss (00:30):
shares the mic with customer retention and employee experience expert, Joey Coleman, helping you to get people talking about your business.

Joey Coleman (00:40):
So get ready because it’s time to Experience This!

Dan Gingiss (00:49):
Get ready for another episode of the Experience This! Show!

Joey Coleman (00:55):
Join us as we discuss a new way to take your vitamins, how government regulations affect businesses, and creating intentional friction in e-commerce.

Dan Gingiss (01:08):
Caring, Legislating, and Preventing – oh my!

Joey Coleman (01:16):
Sometimes a remarkable experience deserves deeper investigation. We dive into the nitty gritty of customer interactions and dissect how, and why, they happen. Join us while we’re Dissecting the Experience.

Dan Gingiss (01:33):
You know, Joey, I think it was the great Hulk Hogan that said, “Say your prayers and take your vitamins!” If I recall…

Joey Coleman (01:40):
I cannot believe we just started this segment with a Hulk Hogan quote. For those paying attention at home, that is your second Hulk Hogan reference this season because you also referenced it in the LEGO episode I did about the Iron Man Hulk Buster costume.

Dan Gingiss (01:57):
I did, I’m going to use it as an Easter egg for the rest of the season… Look out for more Hulk references! The Hulkster always told us to take our vitamins and I Joey, having a new way of taking vitamins. And I wanted to share with you because I actually acted on it based on a recommendation from a friend – my friend, Sarah Grace McCandless – and of course think about that people that’s word of mouth marketing. That is what’s happening right there!

Joey Coleman (02:25):
You bought something! Positive review led to positive new customer acquisition.

Dan Gingiss (02:31):
Yes. Based on a great experience of somebody else and we will put a link by the way to “Care Of” – this is a vitamin company they are at “takecareof.com” and we have a link in the show notes. And when you get to their website, it says, you know, your body, we know the science let’s work together. And the first thing that happens, yeah. The first thing that happens is it asks you to take a survey and it asks these questions that are not particularly hard, but they ask you heart health and brain and memory function, things about your hair, skin and bones, your health goals, and even things like stress, and whether you believe in things like Eastern medicine and you know, natural supplements. The whole thing took less than five minutes and the result was a list of vitamins and supplements, and a package that included a 30 day supply tailored specifically to me.

Joey Coleman (03:29):
So let me get this right? You take this quick survey, you tell them what’s going on with your body, what you need, what you don’t need, et cetera, et cetera, what you believe, what you don’t believe, and in less than five minutes, you’re getting some hyper-personalized vitamins, vitamins made just for you?

Dan Gingiss (03:45):
Indeed. That is True, Joey. But the experience does not stop there. So first of all, I’m going to share my results with you – And I don’t think we’re breaking any any HIPAA laws here, Cause it’s mine…

Joey Coleman (03:56):
HIPPA alert, HIPPA alert. It’s your stuff. You can say whatever you want!

Dan Gingiss (04:00):
It’s my own, so I guess you give up your right to privacy when you share it with everyone. So here’s what the system told me, according to my answers, that I should be taking. The first thing was ashwagandha, which I had to look up, and that was because that was for my brain and it was because, and I quote, “you told us you have trouble concentrating sometimes” Yeah, exactly. I guess…

Joey Coleman (04:24):
Ashwagandha gonna need some of that!

Dan Gingiss (04:27):
Yeah, here we come. Uh, then I was a, suggested some [inaudible] for my heart because I told them that I had slightly elevated cholesterol. Uh, also some garlic for my heart and then, uh, calcium, because I love this one. It said, “you told us you live in the North and rarely eat dairy.” That is true. Ladies and gentlemen, we live in the North and rarely eat dairy. And then some American ginseng for a little stress relief.

Joey Coleman (04:56):
I didn’t know there was such a thing as American ginseng, but okay, great.

Dan Gingiss (05:00):
There is. And I got this thing. So those are all, uh, vitamins in there, either capsules or little, you know, swallowable pills. But then I also got something that was called the pocket. Protector was just, that was kind of a funny name. And it’s a blend of lactobacillus rhamnosus GG and Bifidobacterium lactis BL-04, which obviously you know…

Joey Coleman (05:23):
Did it come with a pronunciation guide cause I’m feeling like it must have. You’re doing a great job on this! I have no, I’d like to buy a vowel, yeah – I’m not sure what’s going on there.

Dan Gingiss (05:33):
Those happened to be two strains of probiotics that help support the body’s immune system, because it’s specifically asked in this day and age about whether you were around anyone that might be immunocompromised or whether you were, you know, in any particular reason, wanting to, uh, to boost your immunity and who doesn’t these days. So now I want to tell you about the experience of receiving the vitamin. So I said, hit me. I ordered it up and I get this box. Now it comes in a bright red box, which really stands out in the mail and it has very clever messages on it. I don’t want to ruin them, but you know that I love clever language and witty language.

Joey Coleman (06:09):
I do know that you love clever. Are we going to include some photos on the website? Do we have some of those or are they the kind of messages that well I’m asking, because I don’t know that we should reveal too much. Like if…

Dan Gingiss (06:21):
I think we can. Yeah, it’s fine. It’s fine. So you open it up. And the first thing that you see is a guidebook and right on the cover, it says “Made for Dan” almost like, Oh wow, nice.

Joey Coleman (06:31):
Simple personalization. All they did was use his name and before you opened any further than the guidebook, my gut instinct is the endorphins are flowing. You’re feeling good about what’s going on cause this was made for you!

Dan Gingiss (06:46):
Yeah. And, and not surprisingly in this guide book were all of the vitamins that I had selected along with their supplement facts, which is like the nutritional info chart that you see on food, if similar ones for supplements. And as it is now, when I learned that they have clever nicknames for each one of these. So my ashwagandha pill is called the Chill Pill because focus and cognitive function, the garlic is called the Vampire Slayer, and the American ginseng is called the “Study Buddy,” because it supports memory and focus. Now here’s where it really gets cool. You get this dispenser box, this beautiful dispenser box that has daily pill packets in it. And you pull out a packet. Now, each packet is made from a hundred percent compostable material. They have

Joey Coleman (07:35):
Ooo I like it! Environmentally friendly, paying attention, I love it!

Dan Gingiss (07:38):
They have really neat quotes on them. Or sometimes it’s a challenge or, or a fact, uh, they say, “Hi Dan,”

Joey Coleman (07:46):
To make sure I understand, their are messages on the individual pill packs that you’re pulling out every day?

Dan Gingiss (07:50):
Yes. And every message starts with “Hi Dan,” and then it has either a quote, a fact or a challenge. And so for example, one of the facts was that historically peanuts have been used as one of the ingredients in dynamite.

Joey Coleman (08:03):
Oh, nice. Nice.

Dan Gingiss (08:05):
See, you learned something new today too, didn’t you?

Joey Coleman (08:06):
I did learn that new, ironically enough, uh, having my grandparents’ farm when I was growing up, had dynamite on the farm and they kept it in a tin shed next to the house where we would actually go out and watch the dynamite sweat! But I didn’t know that dynamite had peanuts in it. So yeah, that’s an interesting newfound fact.

Dan Gingiss (08:24):
Well, and then there was also a quote from a famous philosopher and it said, uh, “you can’t be that kid standing at the top of the water slide, overthinking it. You have to go down the chute.” And of course that famous philosopher is actress and comedian Tina Fey. So that gave me a little bit of a laugh, but this whole presentation is so amazing and it sits on my desk. And every day I open up my pill pack, I take my vitamins. I bring the empty pack over to the compost machine after reading the quote or whatever it is, and I feel like I’m taking exactly what I need for Dan. Not for anybody else.

Joey Coleman (09:05):
I love it. And this feels like such a better experience across the board. Not the least of which is the pre- personalized experience like the one you just described of going and buying, you know, the bottle of multivitamins hat it presumes that every human that buys this bottle needs the exact same mix of the same things. And you never know exactly what’s in it or, you know, is it fresh? Is it old? Is it new? Is it for you? Is it not for you, et cetera? This one is…

Dan Gingiss (09:37):
I buy the ones that we should have, the one for men, so it must be right.

Joey Coleman (09:41):
That’s nice. Yeah, exactly. No, I love this. And I think it speaks to this trend that we’ve talked about on the show before, where healthcare is something that every human needs and with all due respect to our friends and colleagues that work in healthcare, this system is just fundamentally broken right now. We, there are so many of opportunities to improve and enhance the experience. There’s a lot of room for growth there and a lot of opportunity for us to improve.

Dan Gingiss (10:07):
You’re so right, Joey, I mean healthcare itself has to be personalized. All of our bodies are different. We react to different things. We might be long or short, certain nutrients, et cetera. And so I think this plays on a number of themes. Obviously personalization is one of them. And we’ve talked about that a lot on the show, but health and wellbeing is such a hot topic right now, especially with people at home and not being able to exercise as much as maybe we used to. And just generally being more stressed and uncomfortable. Uh, and also this idea of brand connection, which we’ve talked about to look, these vitamins are not as cheap as the multivitamins for men that I buy at the drug store.

Joey Coleman (10:49):
Dan – I was going to ask, can you give us a ballpark idea? Because I’m sure people are listening. They’re like, wow. And you know, and lots of times the thought is, well, if it’s going to be this amazing experience it probably means it’s going to be a luxury pricing. But it sounds like while it’s more than maybe the typical vitamins you would buy at the drug store, it’s not like crazy, insane, expensive – would I be correct in assuming?

Dan Gingiss (11:09):
All in – including shipping – it was maybe 39 bucks for a 30 day supply. So, and that had five different vitamins as well as the pocket protector, the immune system stuff. So yeah, I didn’t think it was too bad. It’s more than I would normally spend, but I really loved, and frankly, I’m still taking the multivitamin because the multivitamin doesn’t have any of those things in it. It doesn’t have the ashwagandha, it doesn’t have ginseng in it. So I’ve actually added. But again, I felt like, you know, I feel like the company knows me and I’ve gone back in by the way and adjusted some of my answers to play around with it a little bit. And so for example, the first time I’d asked me, I’ll obviously I I’ll the joke before you do, but when it asked me about hair,

Joey Coleman (11:55):
Do you need some hair? I was gonna say, does ginseng help with hair growth? What’s going on here?

Dan Gingiss (11:59):
Yeah, but I, you know, like I went in and like retook the skin and nails part. I was like, Oh, well, what happens if I say that I, you know, am interested in nail strength or whatever. And I just wanted to see how the things change.

Joey Coleman (12:11):
Do you get, do you get different answers then? And did they send you different stuff?

Dan Gingiss (12:14):
You do – and you can, at any point retake the survey, or sometimes they ask in this particular case, they asked me the next time I logged on, they said, Hey, would you like to take an additional couple of questions about, about nails and skin? And I said, sure, why not? And so then it recommended two more. I haven’t ordered those yet, but the whole point is personalization, connection with a brand, and health and wellbeing – these are all themes that are really hot. And I think they’ve done a great job putting the whole package together and really making me feel like I’m doing something good for me. And so I highly recommend it. Thank you to Sarah Grace McCandless for recommending it to me. And I’ll recommend it to our listeners as well. And again, we’ll put a link in the shownotes!

Joey Coleman (13:00):
Just because you have required elements of your business doesn’t mean they need to be boring! It’s time to get creative, have some fun, and make people sit up and take notice. Get your customers talking when you Make the Required Remarkable.

Dan Gingiss (13:20):
You know, Joey, I still read the newspaper – like an actual paper newspaper.

Joey Coleman (13:27):
Dad? What’s a newspaper?

Dan Gingiss (13:30):
Exactly. I feel like, I feel like I’ve heard that question before.

Joey Coleman (13:34):
You’re a bit old school… I understand that I actually read a printed newspaper as well. I read the Sunday, New York Times every week, but not, I think you read daily, don’t you?

Dan Gingiss (13:43):
I read, I get a, uh, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, and Sunday subscription to the Chicago Tribune. And I don’t know why they do that.

Joey Coleman (13:53):
I know this segment isn’t about that, I presume it’s not about the Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and Sunday. It must have to do in the Cubs play? I don’t know. It’s something like that.

Dan Gingiss (14:03):
If it was actually when the Cubs play, I’ll probably go to seven days a week because then I want to read it even more. Anyway, it kind of comes from the fact that when I was in college, I was an editor of the college paper, the Daily Pennsylvania, and I’m now on the board of directors so I still, I believe in journalism, I believe in newspapers, yes. Any event, it was somewhat surprising to me to come across a full page printed advertisement from Facebook. And it stood out to me, not because it was from Facebook, but because it had an actual size image or maybe a little bit bigger of, are you ready for this? A floppy disk.

Joey Coleman (14:40):
Wow. Now that is a blast from the past Dan. I have not thought about a floppy disc in a very, very long time. Now let me clarify here. It was an ad for Facebook, with a floppy disk, but was Facebook even around at the time that there were floppy that like I remember using floppy disc and I remember getting onto Facebook. I don’t remember if those two things overlapped in any way, shape or form.

Dan Gingiss (15:04):
Well, it’s a good question. Facebook actually launched in 2004 and by that time, floppy discs were really already on their way out. And this was a picture if you’ll recall, because I know you, you and I are roughly the same age, certainly if I’m a little older and wiser, but this was the three and a half inch one, the hard floppy desk, which I sound a bit of an oxymoron, but the hard one versus those old bendable ones you remember that were bigger.

Joey Coleman (15:30):
Right, right.

Dan Gingiss (15:30):
And anyway, the headline of the ad read and I’m quoting the last time comprehensive internet regulations were passed. This is how files were shared. And the aunt goes on to say, it’s been 25 years since comprehensive internet regulations were passed. It’s time for an update. We support updated internet regulations to set clear guidelines for addressing today’s toughest challenges, learn more at: about.fb.com/regulations. So of course, since I thought this was really fascinating, I had to go to that website.

Joey Coleman (16:04):
So you thought to yourself, “Hmm… Fascinating PR move Facebook! Let’s see what’s going on on this landing page.

Dan Gingiss (16:11):
Exactly. So I went there and it says on the website, “We continue to take critical steps to improve and secure our platforms. Facebook is not waiting for regulation. We’re continuing to make progress on key issues. We’ve tripled our security and safety teams to more than 35,000 people and built new privacy tools. We’re also working with tech peers to make it easier for people to move their data between platforms securely.” And then it says that “Facebook is interested in promoting more legislation around a few topics.” Now let me stop there for a minute. They want more regulation. Now you used to work in government, Joey…

Joey Coleman (16:48):
I did – and I’m a recovering attorney as well. Uh, so here’s the thing, there’s a part of me that reads this and says, wow, okay, nice. I like that. They’re promoting for some regulation because the internet is the wild West. And while I didn’t know that the last time we had comprehensive internet regulation, the floppy disc was the King of file transfer I do now. But I’d be lying if I didn’t say Dan, that a part of me feels like this is a little bit of a “don’t break us up. Don’t break us up. We’d love to be in favor of new rules and new laws” that it’s a little bit of a, a logistical legal strategy. Move here to act like they’re for these things, because we know for anybody that’s been paying attention to what’s going on in the justice department, in the antitrust lawsuit. So it’s maybe just me of all the people listening, but we know there’s this pending case coming against Facebook that’s, I would posit, there’s a better than 50% chance, likelihood that they’re getting broken up in the next two and a half years.

Dan Gingiss (17:50):
Well, I’m glad you asked this joy because as we like to do here on the show, I reached out to Mark Zuckerberg to give us audio. Yeah. And listeners, he said, no, so we’re not going to have any audio from Mark, but I see, I hear what you’re saying Joey. And here’s what I thought about this. So I came from the healthcare industry and the financial services industry, both are, which are two of the most highly regulated industries in the United States. And over a period of time, I started to adapt some of my own philosophies about regulation. And in fact, in particular HIPAA, which we mentioned in the last segment, which is the privacy laws in the United States around healthcare information, HIPAA also has not been updated since the advent of social media or at least since 2004, when Facebook came aboard. And I know this because when I worked in healthcare, I read the entire HIPAA law.

Joey Coleman (18:46):
Such a good overachiever.

Dan Gingiss (18:47):
I know. Well, you know, I’m, I’m a recovering wanna-be-attorney. So in that way, but what’s fascinating is that here we have one of the most major pieces of legislation in our country on privacy. And it, there is no reference to social media. And so you think, well, gosh, all these years later, maybe somebody should update the darn thing and explain what that means. And I had a real case when I worked at Humana, where we had this situation where somebody left us this really long post on Facebook, talking all about her daughter’s illness and how we had rejected her claim. Now it turned out that the rejection of the claim made perfect sense because the doctor had actually prescribed the wrong thing. And so the claim was properly rejected and he just needed to re-prescribe it. Well, the lawyers initially did not want us to say anything, not even to acknowledge with any sort of response and, you know…

Joey Coleman (19:41):
’cause it was on social media. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right.

Dan Gingiss (19:45):
And you know how that made me feel?

Joey Coleman (19:46):
Yeah. The lawyers basically took the standard move of, let’s avoid any likelihood of the appearance of impropriety by even commenting on this, and you being somebody who puts customer experience far above legal requirements, obviously you want to play within the bounds, but you’re going to try to, over-index on taking care of the customer. You’re like, no, we need to respond to this!

Dan Gingiss (20:07):
Well. But also it didn’t make logical sense to me because I figured, Hey, if somebody is going to come to social media and tell the world that they have XYZ disease, what privacy are we protecting anymore? They’ve already, they’ve waited. Right. And so what’s, you know, and so how could you hold a company responsible then it’s not, they didn’t share the data in any event. The philosophy that I came up with in both industries is that I actually think most government regulation has the right idea in mind, the right ideas to protect the customer and to make sure that the little guy isn’t taken advantage of by big companies. Now from a CX perspective, I find that most of this regulation, when you just boil it down to what are they trying to achieve, it actually makes good sense from a customer experience perspective, right? We don’t want to screw over our customers either so inadvertently or on purpose. And so the concept is there, it’s usually where it usually falls apart is in the execution, is that, that then we’ll have, uh, you know, the government telling us how to protect people’s privacy. And, and I want to get into politics here, but I’m a believer that business can figure that out in a more innovative way. In any event, I think it’s smart to Facebook, whether it’s a PR play or not to get out in front of legislation before it happens, because then they at least have a chance to impact it and to have their voice included in it. I think they probably resigned themselves to the fact that we’re going to have new legislation at some point breakup or no breakup. And so, Hey, we might as well be part of the solution. And for that, I, maybe I’m giving them some benefit of the doubt, but I think that smart, I’d like to see the healthcare industry push for an update to HIPAA, to include social media. It’s something that’s missing. It should be there. And I, if I were still in the healthcare industry, I’d want to help write that.

Joey Coleman (21:58):
I think that makes, I think that makes perfect sense Dan. What I will say is that what is fascinating to me and let’s, let’s narrow the scope of this conversation. If we could briefly just to the concept of privacy, cause we’ve talked about it in the context of HIPAA, let’s look at it in a context of two of the biggest, three of the biggest texts, tech players in the space, Facebook, Google, and Apple. All three have remarkably different beliefs, actions, policies, attitudes around privacy. And depending on where you personally fall on the privacy meter, you are necessarily drawn towards the behavior of one or the others accordingly because their corporate beliefs or viewpoint or perspective aligns with your personal viewpoint or perspective. I happen to think that what Apple is doing about really saying, look, we are, we’re going to go toe to toe with Google and with Facebook, and we are going to be champions of protecting your privacy. There are some people that, that is going to actually decrease the experience because it’s not going to make things as convenient. You’re not going to be able to be fed ads based on, you know, certain data that these tools were collecting. But I do think that it’s carving out a space in the customer experience where they will attract a certain type of customer. And so I agree with you. I think what we’re seeing is that the companies are leading the charge on these legal issues and the behaviors they’re taking, because let’s be candid, the legislators are just woefully behind and, and I come from a family of politicians and lawyers, I say that respectfully, but you can’t see senators grilling Mark Zuckerberg on Capitol Hill in a hearing saying, but wait a second, how do you make money without saying, “okay, Boomer.

Dan Gingiss (23:55):
Do your homework.

Joey Coleman (23:56):
as the kids would say, I wouldn’t say that, but you know, go, go do your homework. Like you have to understand how this technology works a little bit, if you’re going to be asked to write laws about it.

Dan Gingiss (24:07):
Right. And, and I, Oh, I wonder in the healthcare space, you know, how many people in healthcare are helping to write healthcare laws, right? Because if you just have politicians writing healthcare laws, you’re gonna run into problems. Anyway, you might remember by the way for, uh, uh, listeners of longtime listeners to the show back in Episode 101, you and I had an agreed to disagree segment on privacy versus convenience. So listen to that. And that was an interesting conversation. Anyway, back to Facebook. So the items that they called out were combating for an election interference, certainly an important one, protecting people’s privacy and data, enabling safe and easy data portability between platforms and then supporting thoughtful changes.

Joey Coleman (24:51):
Aww – that’s an artful term!

Dan Gingiss (24:51):
And this is definitely the PR part that is the Communications Decency Act. And that is the section that specifically eliminates Facebook and other tech companies from being responsible for the content on their site. So Joey…

Joey Coleman (25:05):
It’s their get out of jail free card. Let’s be honest. That section was written by tech companies as a blanket, get out of jail free card. We’re not responsible. Now, should they be a hundred percent responsible for stuff on their side? I don’t think so, but should they be a hundred percent not liable? No, that doesn’t work either. We got to find some middle ground on this.

Dan Gingiss (25:24):
And frankly we have the technology to do it, right. They have technology that can, I can look at posts and identify things. And they actually listed a couple of topics with the illegalities that they think would be reasonable to add to such a policy. So I think the summary here was look, I was stopped in my tracks because I’m reading a printed newspaper, I see a printed full page ad from Facebook that is talking about additional regulation. Now yes, they may be doing it to make the politicians happy. But I did think that it was well thought out and I would encourage companies that are in regulated industries ’cause man, I spent more than half of my career there and it can be a bear get involved in the creation of these regulations. Talk to your Congressman and your senators and be part of the conversation because oftentimes companies act like regulation is something that happens to them. And I do think if Facebook is smart, they’re not going to wait for regulation to happen to them – they’re going to contribute to it and try to at least make it in such a way that they can work with it.

Joey Coleman (26:33):
Almost everyone has interacted with chatbots, but all too often, it’s been a bad experience. In MythBusters presented by Solvvy, we explore a common myth about CX chatbots and see how the right technology can create a positive experience every time.

Dan Gingiss (26:57):
Today’s myth about chatbots, they can’t help you with urgent issues. Joey, have you ever been stuck with a chat bot when you had a more serious issue that needed human support? The worst thing is being stuck with a robot on the phone or website with no good way to get to that real person, especially when you need an answer – Now! I’ve even tried to hunt down a customer service number, which of course is often a challenge for some companies. And one time the chat bot wouldn’t even stop after the human joined the conversation.

Joey Coleman (27:29):
I love it. Now you’re having a conversation with the chat bot and the human and you’re loving both of them!. Well, the reality is modern chat bots can seamlessly get you to a support agent when you need one intelligent chat. Bots can understand when your issue is urgent or it requires agent support and will quickly route you to the right place in those specific cases. Similarly, requesting to speak to an agent hands you directly to a real person – ensuring you don’t waste time, looking around for a phone number or sending an email to support or pounding on the “O” repeatedly in the hope that if you push it harder, it will get you to an agent faster.

Dan Gingiss (28:06):
Well, I’m not sure we should have shared this secret to super fast customer supposed support Joey, but I have to say, if I knew I could get to a human at any time, I’d probably be a little more patient with the old chat bot.

Joey Coleman (28:18):
That’s another Myth Busted – thanks to our friends at Solvvy, the Next Gen Chatbot.

Joey Coleman (28:27):
There are so many great customer experience articles to read, but who has the time! We summarize them and offer clear takeaways you can implement starting tomorrow. Enjoy this segment of CX Press, where we read the articles so you don’t need to!

Dan Gingiss (28:45):
This week’s CX press is by Branwell Moffatt on the Future of Customer Engagement and Experience website, which is managed by SAP CX – which in full disclosure is a client of mine, but that’s not why I’m sharing the article. And in fact, they don’t even know that I’m doing it. The article is entitled “Friction in e-commerce – sometimes it’s a good thing.”

Joey Coleman (29:08):
Now wait a second, Dan, we’ve talked about this on the show many times. Isn’t friction, usually a bad thing when it comes to customer experience?

Dan Gingiss (29:16):
Yes, of course it is. Which is why I thought the article was so interesting as Moffatt writes and I’m quoting convention tells us to remove as much friction as we possibly can, but there, but is there such a thing as having too little friction, can we go too far and actually damage our customer experience by making it too easy for them unquote. Now he points to Ikea the iconic furniture retailer that sells high quality pieces that the buyer has to assemble themselves. I’m quoting again. He says, “you’d expect the main advantage that this gives Ikea is a lower cost of sale, which can then be passed on to customers. However, the very fact that customers have to invest more time and effort into the collecting and building of the furniture causes them to place a higher value on it.” Unquote, now this psychological phenomenon actually has a name and it was coined in 2011 by researchers from Harvard, Gail, and Duke. It’s known as the “Ikea Effect.”

Joey Coleman (30:14):
Oh my gosh, I love it. Here’s the crazy thing, Dan, we just moved a few months ago and for the, let me count that, uh, one, two, three, four, five, six time I moved a dozen Billy bookcases from IKEA. Now I guarantee you when IKEA made this less than a hundred dollar bookcase, they did not think I was going to take it from Virginia to DC, to Colorado, to three different locations in Colorado, and back to Iowa. But I did. And I totally get that idea of being connected to the furniture in a different way, because you built it. And something like the Billy bookcase super easy to build, they have other bookcases, not so easy to build. Uh, and, and that’s kind of the adventure. Whenever you buy something new from IKEA, are you getting the easy to build one of the more difficult to build one, but I, uh, I resonate with this idea that even though there’s some frictions, uh, of building it, it does create more connection because I built this darn thing, I’m going to take care of it and get the optimal use out of it. Before you move on to another, giving it up so fast, that’s giving it up. I said, yeah, I spent a good amount of time on this. The Kallax, by the way, is the one that is just a killer. If you see the Kallax five by five cube, go get a PhD in furniture building, it’ll be easier.

Dan Gingiss (31:42):
Well, we actually talked about this way back in Season 2, Episode 42, when I bought some furniture from Target. And I expressed that and I still express it. I do not enjoy putting together furniture, but that Target’s directions made it really fine and easy. But I started thinking about some other examples. Well, first of all, actually, there were other examples in the article. And then I, I thought of some additional ones. He mentioned growing your own vegetables in the garden right there. They taste better because you grow them.

Joey Coleman (32:11):
Ironically enough Dan, you may recall, we talked about earlier this season about the, uh, special lettuce grower I got from my wife. We actually ate the lettuce from it the other night, the first time we harvested the lettuce that we grew in the basement. And I got to tell you, we asked around the table, the family and everybody was like, this tasted really good. And I, we talked about the fact that does it taste better because we know that we grew it as opposed to buying it at the store.

Dan Gingiss (32:37):
Yeah, for sure. For sure. And the article also mentioned the great brand build the bear, which is the store that lets you assemble your own Teddy bear, which in theory should be less expensive because they don’t have to pay for the labor, but it’s actually more expensive because you’re paying for the experience. So he says Moffatt writes, “by adding friction to the purchase process, these companies have managed to increase the perceived value of their products while also reducing their costs.”

Joey Coleman (33:04):
You know, it’s interesting, Dan, I understand the way that friction is being used here, but I, I’m not exactly sure that it’s the best word because I get what they’re, you know, friction is so regularly associated with an impediment or a slowing and yes, this is arguably a slowing, but when you’re enhancing the experience by slowing, like they do at build a bear, you’re actually increasing the experience. So I guess it’s the point that is being made. If you’re not going to make it uber-convenient, make sure that everything that takes time in your customer journey is a remarkable experience

Dan Gingiss (33:42):
Is worth the time, right? Because the issue with Build-A-Bear is it’s not about, I mean, it is a great experience, but it’s that they can charge more for that, right? Is that a, is that an already assembled teddy bear, which is a whole lot easier and faster and more convenient costs significantly less than one that you have to build yourself. Now I was starting to think of some other, uh, products. I, I was thinking over the holidays, I almost bought my son this, but you know, you see in the catalogs, those like those puzzles that you lock a a hundred dollar bill or a $50 bill in, and they can’t get to the money until they solve the puzzle. Right. It was dry. But man, when you get that money, you’re going to really feel.

Joey Coleman (34:21):
a different level of appreciation cause he had to work for it. Yeah. I get that. You know, I’m also thinking of things like cooking classes, right? Where you maybe go to a cooking class. I did one years ago where we learned how to make our own sushi. And that was awesome. And I feel like it was some of the best sushi I ever had. It probably wasn’t the best sushi I’ve ever had, but because I felt invested in the creation of it, I think it changed my, the taste profile or at least my experience of the taste profile.

Dan Gingiss (34:49):
Absolutely. So here’s the takeaway for our listeners. Even if you have a product or service that can’t be assembled by your customer, still try to look for ways to make it their own, right? It could be as simple as using their name on your website when they log in and then asking them if they want to change it to a nickname or a spouse’s name or something else right? Now you’ve made the product their own. So every time they log in, it feels like it’s something that they were invested in. So understanding that you may not be selling, you may not be a furniture seller that sells, made to build furniture. There are ways in lots of different companies to allow your customers to invest in the experience. And what we found from this article is that that ultimately pays off in a willingness to spend more.

Joey Coleman (35:46):
Thanks for joining us for another episode of Experience This! You are the best listener ever!

Dan Gingiss (35:52):
And since you listened to the whole show,

Joey Coleman (35:54):
Yay, you!

Dan Gingiss (35:55):
we’re curious, was there a specific part of this episode that you enjoyed the most? If so, it would mean the world to us if you could share it with a coworker, a friend, or someone that just loves listening to podcasts.

Joey Coleman (36:06):
And while you’re in the sharing mood, if you felt inclined to jump over to iTunes or wherever you find your podcasts and write us a review, we would so appreciate it. And when you do, don’t forget to let us know as we might have a little surprise for you.

Dan Gingiss (36:21):
Thanks again for your time. And we’ll see you next week for more,

Joey Coleman (36:24):
Experience.

Dan Gingiss (36:24):
This!

Episode 122 – Crystal Clean Experiences with Innovative Videos

Join us as we discuss using video to help explain things to your customers, avoiding irrelevance through digital innovation, and a maid service that is doing far more than just sweeping and dusting.

Fixing, Digitizing, and Cleaning– Oh My!

Referenced in the Show

Check out the video Dan received from his auto technician:

Host Contact Information

Email Dan: Dan@dangingiss.com

Tweet Dan Gingiss: @DGingiss

Email Joey: JoeyC@JoeyColeman.com

DanGingiss.com

JoeyColeman.com

Subscribe to Experience This on Apple Podcasts

Learn more about our Season 7 Partner – Solvvy – The NextGen Chatbot

Episode Transcript

Download an unedited transcript of Episode 122 here or read it below:

Joey Coleman (00:05):
Welcome to Experience This!

Dan Gingiss (00:07):
The podcast that celebrates remarkable customer experiences and inspires you to stand out from the competition by wowing your customers.

Joey Coleman (00:17):
Each episode, we bring you a healthy dose of inspiring stories, funny interactions, and practical takeaways. Marketing and customer experience thought leader, Dan Gingiss…

Dan Gingiss (00:30):
shares the mic with customer retention and employee experience expert, Joey Coleman, helping you to get people talking about your business.

Joey Coleman (00:40):
So get ready because it’s time to Experience This!

Dan Gingiss (00:49):
Get ready for another episode of the Experience This Show!

Joey Coleman (00:56):
Join us as we discuss: using video to help explain things to your customers, avoiding irrelevance through digital innovation, and a maid service that is doing far more than just sweeping and dusting.

Dan Gingiss (01:11):
Fixing, Digitizing, and Cleaning – Oh my!

Joey Coleman (01:17):
We love telling stories and sharing key insights you can implement, or avoid, based on our experiences. Can you believe that This Just Happened!?!

Dan Gingiss (01:31):
So Joey – you may remember from way back in Season 1, Episode 10, that I’m a big fan of BMW. And I believe that the ultimate driving experience not only describes what it’s like to be in the car, but it actually describes what it’s like to have the car serviced after you purchased the car.

Joey Coleman (01:53):
Yes, I do recall. What’s interesting Dan is I’m remembering that you really loved the place where you took your car to be serviced. And we’ve talked about that before, and we’ve talked in past episodes about how much I love the place where I took my car to be serviced. I think we are probably the should buy a lottery ticket because it is rare that two people would find such love for their auto mechanic.

Dan Gingiss (02:16):
For sure. For sure. Now I wanted to come back to this same dealership, which is Field’s BMW in Northfield, Illinois and talk about something that I like to call blind transactions.

Joey Coleman (02:29):
Ooo blind transactions – do tell us more!

Dan Gingiss (02:32):
Well, this is where a customer doesn’t really know what’s going on and just has to trust the provider. So think about going to the dentist. And the dentist says, Oh, this tooth needs a crown. And you’re like, okay, I guess I got a crown?

Joey Coleman (02:50):
Sure it does!

Dan Gingiss (02:51):
I mean, I don’t know any different. I got to trust the dentist, right. Or I had a refrigerator guy out one day and my refrigerator wasn’t cooling. He said, well, you need more Freon.

Joey Coleman (03:01):
Was it Freon? It’s like, literally the only thing I know about refrigeration is that Freon is somehow involved. How much, how you know if you need more, I have no idea?!

Dan Gingiss (03:11):
Well, and they’re also phasing it out because it’s environmentally disastrous. And so it’s like 400 dollars.

Joey Coleman (03:16):
Freon is not free kids!

Dan Gingiss (03:19):
Anyway. So going to the auto mechanic is kind of like that for me, I’m not much of a car guy. And so when they say, Hey, you need new brake pads. I’m like, Oh, okay. Brake pads sound important. We better get those. Right. I mean, so it’s a blind transaction for me.

Joey Coleman (03:32):
I had a teacher in high school that always used to joke about with kids to prove this point. He would say something like, well, if I told you you needed a new muffler belt, what would you say? And what you’re supposed to say is you’re crazy because a muffler doesn’t have a belt, but the majority of young 16, 17 year olds didn’t know that answer. Right. They had no clue. So yeah, this, this shows up in a lot of industries now that you bring it up.

Dan Gingiss (03:57):
Yeah, definitely does. So anyway, I went in for just an oil change, real, pretty easy. And as part of the oil change, they do a whole once over of the car and house, as I was checking out the associate that was helping me said here, I want to show you this video. And he brings up on his screen and they also emailed this to me about a two minute video of the auto mechanic underneath my car and showing me all of the parts underneath my car and how he was inspecting them. And what was so cool was like when he went to check the width of the tires, right. To make sure that, uh, that there wasn’t too much wear…

Joey Coleman (04:40):
The car is on tires! Ladies and gentlemen, we’re seeing just how much of a blind transaction this actually is for Dan!

Dan Gingiss (04:47):
Oh, geez. I mean, but anyway, he was looking at, uh, you know, to, to look at the treads, right. He’s looking at the width, but what’s cool is in the video, you actually see the measurement tool that he’s using and you can see the measurement. So it’s not like he’s, you know, you don’t have to worry about him, lying to you and saying, Oh yeah, it looks just fine. Or, Oh, you need new tires. He’s actually showing you measuring, showing himself, measuring it and giving you the results. So let’s cut to the audio. I understand folks that the audio is going to be a little bit different on a podcast, but Hey, it’s a podcast. So we’re going to listen in and just imagine Jerry, the mechanic is literally underneath my car with his phone, taking this video.

Jerry the Technician (05:30):
Hello. My name is Jerry. I’m the technician forming services on your vehicle today. Uh, just a quick look at your undercarriage, starting with the rear tires. I’m going to clear out of the way. Uh, if you see the measurement sets seven millimeters and the CADing it’s in like-new condition, uh, same thing goes for your brakes. Uh, pads are measured at 10 millimeters rotor faces are in good condition. There’s no corrosion or pitting. So those are looking good. Uh, following the suspension over here, there’s nothing bent or out of place. Everything looks like as it’s supposed to. I was rear differential, no leaks left rear tire also measured at seven millimeters in the green. Continue on air exhaust is free of damage, positioned correctly, free of leaks transfer case transmission pan will pan are all clean and free of leaks. I’m trying to get a good view up here and it kind of crowded your valve cover everything up there at the top of the engine is clean and free of leaks. Uh, your front tire is also measured seven millimeters. So they’re also in good condition. Your suspension everything’s tight as it should be. Nothing loose, nothing damaged a tire person for adjusted. We’re going to continue the inspection at the top of the vehicle. All right, here, we have a shot at your engine bay. We’re about to pull the engine oil and complete your service washer solve. It was full or filled. I’m sorry. Cool levels. Check the field. It prompts me to service a top of the engine. Does that reveal analytics doesn’t look like there’s anything or worry about. Um, so your inspections good. Uh, nothing further to report. If you have any questions regarding this video, please contact for service advisor. Otherwise thank you for trusting Field BMW.

Dan Gingiss (07:34):
So Joey, when I saw this video, I’m not saying that I felt like a car guy, but I certainly felt a whole lot more educated and informed. And I felt like I had the peace of mind that they checked everything over and I could get in my car and drive on the snowy icy roads home, and that I was going to be safe. And I thought that was fantastic.

Joey Coleman (07:55):
Well, I also thought my goodness, I’ve learned a thing or two about the underside of Dan’s car and Dan takes really good care of his vehicle. Yeah. I loved this for so many ways. And I actually like, and we’ll we’ll post the video on the show notes page at ExperienceThisShow.com, but I actually liked listening to just the audio because with the narration alone, you get an education, you get some insight as to what’s going on and what came up for me to be completely candid. When, when you shared this video, Dan, is that why doesn’t every mechanic do this? I’ve actually spoken to an association of auto mechanic repair shop owners, which yes, it exists. And what was fascinating is we were talking about using video and no one was using video in any capacity. And here’s your mechanic. Who’s not only using video to create connection, which we’ve talked about many times. This is such a great thing, but it’s using video to do education. It’s highly personalized and customized. And I don’t know if I was anywhere in the Chicago land region and I had a BMW. I would want to go to this place if nothing else, because they’re creating remarkable experiences and proving their work, showing, you know, bringing sight to the blind transaction as one might say,

Dan Gingiss (09:21):
Well, exactly. And that’s, I think the importance and what we are, we all need to think about in terms of using video in customer experiences. Because as you said, there’s blind transactions all over the place. There’s scary for the consumer. Nobody wants to be taken advantage of or to lose money. And so, but we often just don’t know. And yeah, I think this should be true of pretty much every industry in which you have to trust. Right? And, uh, and we’re seeing stuff in the dental industry too, with this 3d imaging where dentists can now show you a 3d image of your tooth and, and at least better than kind of the old x-ray where they’re like, you know, “You see there, you’ve got all of this kind of like…

Joey Coleman (10:02):
Where’s the funny bone? Can you read that one?

Dan Gingiss (10:08):
Um, but you know, this actually got me thinking Joey, about our very first ever book report on Experience This, it was Episode 4, Season 1. Do you remember who that was?

Joey Coleman (10:20):
Oh, geez. You’re going to call me out here?

Dan Gingiss (10:22):
Videos the hint – video.

Joey Coleman (10:25):
Video killed the radio star. Uh, I do I’m…

Dan Gingiss (10:29):
If you said Marcus Sheridan’s book, “They Ask, You Answer”

Joey Coleman (10:40):
His new book is The Video Sale. Yes. The Visual Sale. Yes.

Dan Gingiss (10:45):
Actually we’ve done both of his books. That’s right. We started with, They Ask, You Answer and his new book is The Visual Sale. But point is Marcus talks about using video in sales and marketing, and he’s an inbound marketing expert, but there’s no reason why we can’t use video. Once people become customers. And you know, it helps people through these blind transactions and allows them to feel confident in where they’re going. And like you said, I am always going to bring my car back to this dealership. I know, I know there’s probably a mechanic down the street. That’s a little bit less expensive, but I like how I’m treated there. I like the omelets. I like the waiting room. And I like being able to see underneath my car and understand something about it.

Joey Coleman (11:30):
I love that some people might want it might think, geez Joey is so bougie with his bull kelp salt. But you, with your omelets, while you get an oil change, you are definitely the more high maintenance of the two [inaudible]. I’m just jealous. I wish omelets were on the menu when I was getting an oil change. You know, I will say the only gentle suggestion I would give for this video, I wish it would have started with the camera, which I presume that person is filming, with their cell phone, I mean, the way the video looks, I would have loved it. If the camera would have started with a selfie shot of the technician, “Hey, I’m Jerry. And today I have the pleasure of working on your car. Mr. Gingiss let me show you a few things…” And then turn the camera around. It adds an extra layer of humanization. And when we think about this blend between remarkable customer experience and remarkable employee experience at the end of the day, what I think we’re striving for is remarkable human experiences. The experiences that allow us to connect personally, that allow our humanity to be part of the conversation. And one of the great ways to do that is to let your customers see your employees and let your employees be seen. Now, some employees may not be super excited about that in the beginning, but I promise that as you do it more and more, they will feel more connected and engaged with the customers as well.

Dan Gingiss (13:00):
Oh, absolutely. I could see people coming into this place and requesting Jerry is their mechanic. Now they know him. So love it. And Hey, if you have any questions regarding the video, please contact your service advisor and not Dan because he doesn’t understand all of it, but he sure felt better about getting this car fixed at Fields BMD.

Joey Coleman (13:23):
We’re excited to give you an overview of an important book you should know about as well as share some of our favorite passages as part of our next Book Report.

Dan Gingiss (13:35):
Today’s Book Report is about “Winning Digital Customers: The Antidote to Irrelevance” by Howard Tiersky with a foreword, by the way, by Michelle McKenna, who is interestingly the CIO of the NFL.

Joey Coleman (13:51):
That’s gotta be a cool gig. The CIO of the NFL? I love it. I love it. I’m not a huge NFL fan, but I have to imagine that’s a fascinating, uh, gig.

Dan Gingiss (14:02):
Well, I am a big football fan and I, I definitely think it is. So I got a chance to talk with Howard Tiersky and fascinating guy, uh, with a fascinating background. And I really, really liked this book. And as you know, as well, Joey, when he sent us copies of it, he sent it in a customized box that arrived and like the box had the cover of the book on it in printed.

Joey Coleman (14:30):
I was going to say, I loved this book before I opened the book.

Dan Gingiss (14:35):
Totally.

Joey Coleman (14:35):
Right. Because the packaging and you know, that age old phrase, don’t judge a book by its cover. Other reason why it’s an age old phrase is because people do judge books by their cover all the time. And the idea of the package that he sent the book to us in coming and looking beautiful and having messaging on it and the book cover on it. Oh, I too was intrigued before I even cracked the spine of the book and started reading.

Dan Gingiss (14:58):
And when you did crack the spine of the book, it’s a great book. And I think it’s so important that we’re talking about digital experience, especially now in 2021, when 2020 caused a lot of customers to have to go digital. And maybe even the unwilling ones, everybody went digital because you kind of had to in so many different industries. And so digital was big before it’s now an absolutely required part of the business. So as always, we asked Howard to give us an overview of his book and Here he is:

Howard Tiersky (15:32):
Hi, this is Howard Tiersky author of the wall street journal bestselling book, Winning Digital Customers: The Antidote to Irrelevance. Now who should read this book? Well, I’ll tell you, I wrote this book with the executive at a large enterprise in mind, who’s responsible in some way for driving the digital success of a legacy brand, which is to say someone could be in marketing. Someone in technology, someone in operations could even be a CEO, a CFO, chief marketing officer, somebody who has responsibility for driving digital though. In reality, what I found is I’ve talked to so many people who’ve read the book and been applying. It is that it’s applicable. First of all, to really anybody who has a responsibility associated with driving customer behavior at a company. And second of all, I’ve discovered that small businesses and medium-sized businesses are applying the principles of this book really just as effectively as large enterprises. My experience is mostly working with our enterprises, but what I’ve heard from companies at a variety of sizes is that while my examples in the book are largely focused on large enterprises, frankly, the techniques and practices described in the book are applicable at businesses of any size. So I would encourage anybody who’s interested in the topic of how a company could more effectively serve its customers and especially more effectively adapt today to today’s increasingly digital customers. I would encourage anyone like that to pick up a copy of winning digital customers or read the free chapter, which is available online at: wdc.ht/freechapter.

Joey Coleman (17:06):
Oh, there are a couple of things I love about this, Dan you’re right. Not only is digital more relevant today than ever before, but I love the way Howard kind of calls out this distinction that I think so many readers and people that are working on their businesses think about they’re like, well, but that’s a big business. I run a small business or that’s easy for a small business to do. You don’t understand. We have a large enterprise folks. These are fictions in your mind in the same way that the difference between B2B and B2C a lot of companies make that out as a huge difference. No, it’s, HDH, it’s humans to humans. I think at the end of the day, what I love about this and about Howard’s message is yes, a lot of the case studies in the examples in the book are from larger enterprise companies, but the applicability to anyone who’s interested in the topic of increasing the digital experience for their customers permeates the entire book. So this book is just chock full of fun passages. Let’s let Howard, the wonderful author, go first with his favorite passage:

Howard Tiersky (18:19):
You have a problem. If you are trying to make a legacy brand successful in today’s digital world, you got a problem, but this book is going to tell you exactly what to do about it. My seven-year-old son, Joseph likes to text our family group chat with news stories that he thinks we need to know about such as the recent sightings of giant squids off the coast of Japan. One evening last year, my phone dinged with a group text from Joseph sharing the announcement that very soon every single Toys”R”Us in America would be closing. I was well aware of the problems that the company faced. In fact, Toys”R”Us executives had recently visited our offices to talk about bringing my firm in to help improve their customer experience. But time just ran out. I was disappointed that I wasn’t going to be consulting on a Toys”R”Us turnaround, but little Joe’s text prompted me to imagine how truly devastated I would have been had Toys”R”Us disappeared. When I was his age. I figured I should probably check in. I headed downstairs and approached Joe, who was still at the kitchen computer. I gently asked how he was feeling about the news of the chain’s closure. He thought for a second and then answered with a cheerful shrug. I don’t care seeing my surprise reaction. He gestured back at the screen and reassured me, dad, don’t worry. We can just order whatever we need from Amazon. Some say Toys”R”Us went under because they had too much leverage debt. And it’s true. That was a genuine problem. Others say that downloadable video games reduce the demand for physical toys and they have a bit, but Toys”R”Us died from something more profound, a lack of love. They just no longer mattered as they once did. If seven year old boys don’t care whether your toy store stays or goes, you’re done for. At Joe’s age I did love Toys”R”Us. I also loved my Kodak camera with its flashbulbs speed racer by Timex digital, watch my Atari and I hop a few decades later in life. I loved Borders Bookstores, Melrose Place, and my Blackberry. Today I love my Mac, Google slides, Alexa, and Game of Thrones. And I’m back to loving. iHOP again. How about you? What do you love Disney World? Chipotle, Fortnite, LuluLemon, Snapchat. More importantly, do your customers love your business? This book is a blueprint for earning love from today’s customers who I like to call digital customers. And it’s a treatise on the idea that customer love is the single most important factor in the success of your business.

Dan Gingiss (21:18):
Aww – I love that he talked about Toys”R”Us, cause I use this as an example too. I mean, man, when Toys”R”Us went out of business, it looked exactly like the store from when I was a kid.

Joey Coleman (21:30):
So true! And I was a big fan of Toys”R”Us, like I remember, you know, going to the mall with my parents and begging to be able to go in the Toys”R”Us like begging sure. When you couldn’t just go to Amazon or, or have a digital experience back when we were kids, when the competition for Toys”R”Us was the Sears catalog coming to your house like Toys”R”Us was the real deal. A whole store just filled with toys. Oh my gosh. Yes. It was definitely a sad moment. You know, absolutely. We wax nostalgic for Toys”R”Us, but my favorite passage was about some other brands that I’ve actually got a fair amount of experience with. Here’s the passage from the book:

Joey Coleman (22:16):
Uber eliminates the inconvenience of taking 30 seconds to pay the driver. When you arrive at your destination, Netflix auto starts the next episode of stranger things. So you can binge watch for hours without lifting a finger. Alexa will check your Amazon package delivery status. If you just ask it three words, where’s my stuff. No doubt. They are working on getting that down to one. Digital leaders, obsess over removing every little bit of unnecessary effort that they possibly can.

Dan Gingiss (22:48):
I loved this too. And, and in that same section, he referred to this idea as hyper convenience. And he did credit his friend who was, uh, Avis and Budget Rentacars. But I love the concept of finding a way to reduce the number of steps everywhere you can go. And as we’ve said on this show before, and as I’ve said, many times on stages, this is what I did at Discover Card. When we won the JD Power award for the first time. And we finally took it away from American Express, which of course is an amazing customer experience company. We took a look at our web and mobile digital experiences, and we removed every barrier. We could find hundreds of them, little tiny things that annoyed people, and they complained about it. And we got rid of all of them. And there’s definitely some debate in the CX world about whether you should be getting rid of pain points or creating new experiences. I think you need to do both. And this is a terrific example also of, uh, of how you do that. Now I picked a, a little bit of a longer quote and I want to set this up because I learned something here and was absolutely fascinated. So it turns out that another company that we put in the same category as Toys”R”Us is Blockbuster. R.I.P. Blockbuster spent a lot of time there as a kid. And it turns out that Howard and his consulting team were actually consultants to the leaders of Blockbuster when a little company called Netflix came onto the scene.

Joey Coleman (24:20):
He’s been on the front lines of like a lot of these really pivotal times in big brand life. I mean, he’s the guy, right? He’s been there, done that, got the t-shirt!

Dan Gingiss (24:27):
And he actually said one of his biggest regrets was not successfully convincing Blockbuster management to listen to them because they were providing them with good advice. So let me read:

Dan Gingiss (24:40):
They certainly weren’t clueless. I can tell you that there were many super smart people there. We collaborated with them on a vision that in many ways looks a lot like Netflix today. Streaming services, episodic television with great navigation multi-screen devices. In those days, Netflix was exclusively in the DVD by mail business. Blockbuster was much larger with more money, more customers, more Hollywood relationships, and just about every advantage, but one – they loved, who they already were. As an example of this let’s drill into one of the more profound barriers that kept them from committing to the bold digital vision that they paid us to develop. What was it? Candy. At its peak when blockbuster had 9,000 plus stores, those stores rented a lot of videos, but they also sold a lot of M&Ms, Skittles, and giant Kit-Kats. It was becoming harder to make a significant profit renting DVDs, especially after they stopped charging late fees, because the studios negotiated a fair chunk of the rental price for themselves. But the margin on candy, as well as microwaveable popcorn buckets was huge. Our proposed digital vision faced significant resistance from executives who were perfectly willing to believe that customers would stream video to their homes, but repeatedly pointed out you can’t stream candy. How could the company be successful without candy? It seems to be core to their business model and that mindset made it insurmountable side note. I reviewed Netflix his most recent annual report and still to this date, $0 from the sale of candy. So I guess it was surmountable after all!

Joey Coleman (26:22):
So true. Oh my gosh. Fantastic, fantastic story! You know, there was one, I mean the whole story is beautiful, but there was one sentence that I felt when I was reading it, uh, reached out and grabbed me by the shoulders and shook me.

Dan Gingiss (26:36):
I know which one it is!

Joey Coleman (26:36):
Let’s see, it’s where they say “they loved who they already were.”

Dan Gingiss (26:43):
Yep.

Joey Coleman (26:43):
How many businesses are so caught up in the identity of who they are today, that they are going to be a footnote in history tomorrow? Like I think there is an incredibly valuable exercise for everyone listening, get your team together, get your smartest people in your organization together and sit down and say, if tomorrow we were prohibited from making money, the way we currently do from our number one way that we make money, we weren’t allowed to do it for whatever reason. You know, a law was passed, you know, the supply chain blew up, whatever it is, we have to take that off the table. What do we need to do? I feel like if you’re not regularly and by regularly, I’m thinking at least once a year asking yourself what are the things that we are so entrenched in believing to be true, that you’re not, you know, questioning that and thinking through strategically how you would roll with that. You’re done for, and you know, frankly, the last year has shown a lot of businesses that reality. You know, Dan, you and I both pre COVID a significant part of our life was spent on airplanes. A significant part of our life was spent traveling around. And if we were so in love with who we were in the past, we wouldn’t have been able to be who we are today. So long story short, go check out Winning Digital Customers. It’s a fantastic book. You’re going to want to pick up a copy of this Howard Tiersky, it’s just full of stories and ideas and things that are going to make it so that you can connect more digitally with the customers that you have.

Joey Coleman (28:31):
Almost everyone has interacted with chatbots, but all too often, it’s been a bad experience. In MythBusters – presented by Solvvy – we explore a common myth about CX chatbots and see how the right technology can create a positive experience, every time.

Dan Gingiss (28:57):
Today’s myth about chatbots? All chatbots pretend to be a real person. And usually don’t do that. Great. A job of pretending, for example, you start talking to a support agent named Mary on a website or app. You’re having a great experience close to finding an answer. And then you’re struck with the dreaded, sorry, I don’t understand you. Which is a phrase that no human has ever said in the history of mankind. Did you know that in one study over 50% of individuals said that they were disturbed when they realized they were chatting with a robot and not a real person?

Joey Coleman (29:34):
Understandably so, I mean, the reality is that modern chat bots don’t need to hide behind a persona. While still Being conversational. Leading chatbots today are now able to provide next level customer experiences without having to pretend to be a real person. In fact, most people find these experiences more authentic than getting stuck, chatting with a robot named Mary who doesn’t understand you. Plus it won’t feel awkward in the event that you do start a live chat with an actual real person.

Dan Gingiss (30:06):
Well, I am glad for one that the next generation of chat bots are comfortable in their own skin joint because it’s kind of afraid we were going to have another Lil Miquela situation here.

Joey Coleman (30:20):
Callback! That was nice!

Dan Gingiss (30:21):
But hey, these guys are robots and they’re proud of it.

Joey Coleman (30:25):
That’s another Myth Busted thanks to our friends at Solvvy – the Next Gen Chatbot.

Joey Coleman (30:33):
Sometimes a remarkable experience deserves deeper investigation. We dive into the nitty gritty of customer interactions and dissect how and why they happen. Join us while we’re Dissecting the Experience.

Dan Gingiss (30:51):
Joey and I recently received a terrific voicemail on our website.

Joey Coleman (30:59):
Oh, we so loved this one. It’s so nice. We love hearing from our listeners!

Dan Gingiss (31:02):
We do. And this one in particular was amazing. Her name is Robin Murphy and she’s the owner of Maid Brigade a franchise in that covers a number of counties, Westchester, Fairfield, Rockland, and Putnam counties in New York and Connecticut. Now, before we get to Maid bBrigade, when Robin sent us this voicemail, of course, cause it’s what Joey and I do. We responded to her over email. We started communicating and it turns out she loves the podcast and she left us the voicemail because she was sad that we are on our hiatus Joey and was waiting for us to come back.

Joey Coleman (31:37):
And we were like, Oh my gosh, they are listening. It’s so kind. We love it. Thanks for letting us be on hiatus and letting us know that we were missed while we were on hiatus.

Dan Gingiss (31:47):
Yes – and then Robin was also super kind enough to leave us a positive review on iTunes. And I’m going to read that in a second. But back to Maid Brigade. Maid Brigade is known for its commitment to best practices. And it is the only local company in this area that is green, clean certified. Also Robin and her husband are former franchise of the year winners in the maid brigade franchise system.

Joey Coleman (32:13):
No surprise there once you get to know Robin!

Dan Gingiss (32:15):
Yeah, exactly. They know what they’re doing, but let’s get to this iTunes review. She wrote, “I’ve been listening to the experience this podcast for six months now. And I look forward to when it shows up as a new episode, Tuesday mornings as a small business owner, I understand the value of great clients and my learning from Joey and Dan has been benefiting every aspect of my business, not just a relationship with our clients, but also our employees, and even our vendors, all important to us.

Joey Coleman (32:44):
Woo hoo! Oh, I love it. Thank you Robin. For the review, we love getting reviews on iTunes as it really helps draws new listeners to our show, but you know what? I love even more about the review. Dan. I love that Robin is getting benefit. Not only in terms of her customer experiences, but with her employee experience and her vendor experience. You know, increasingly so many of our conversations are about the human experience. I absolutely love this. So Robin, you let us know that we were, uh, we were providing some value and you provided some lovely value to us. We so appreciate it.

Dan Gingiss (33:17):
Well, as it turns out, Joey, Robin, isn’t just a fan of the show. She is also a big fan of your book. Never lose a customer again.

Joey Coleman (33:27):
Oh, so sweet.

Dan Gingiss (33:28):
Best of all, she has actually implemented some amazing experiences for her customers. See Joey’s book is practical. Guys. You can do it too. Let’s hear Robin. Tell us a little bit about what she’s been doing at may brigade.

Robin Murphy – Maid Brigade (33:45):
Hi Dan and Joey. This is Robin Murphy of Maid Brigade. We are a home cleaning company dedicated to helping people be home. Happy housecleaning is considered a commodity. We get it. It’s easy to find someone who can clean your home for a lot less money than we will, which is why we make sure to give our clients and experience they aren’t going to get from anyone else. Of course, it includes our excellent cleaning by fantastic staff. But it’s more than just that we send reminder emails, texts when we’re on the way check-ins after the service handwritten, thank you cards. We do what we say we’re going to do. And if we fall short, Hey, it’s not often, but it happens. We make sure to make things right, no matter what. And while we love all of our customers, those clients who use us on a recurring basis are very special. So we take even better care of them. We have a customer retention program where among other things, we send them specially curated gifts, which promote home happiness and show our appreciation based on the thank yous we receive and especially our very low customer cancellation rate. We know that they appreciate us back. Another special thing we give our clients is free cleaning solutions to use in between our visits. They’re the best cleaning products, people, pet, and earth safe and unrivaled by brands you buy in stores. On our first visit, we give our clients a kit and we refill the bottles every time we’re back. It’s free cleaning products for life so long as they use may brigade. I also want to mention what we do for clients who spread the word, refers to their friends and who posts reviews about us on social media reviews are invaluable gifts to us. They are seen by thousands of people every month, looking for someone to do what we do and a great review attract great new clients. So to those who post reviews, we send a special bottle of beautifully packaged olive oil that they’ll enjoy for a while. And we hope that they’ll think of us when they do. At Maid Brigade we are very customer centric and love putting together initiatives that give our clients what they’ve never expect from their main service and that they won’t get from anybody else, but Maid Brigade.

Joey Coleman (35:47):
Dan, I will say, well, forgive me. Let me say as an author. And I know you’ve had this experience many, many times before. Nothing makes you happier as an author than to find out that someone got your book, read your book, implemented the ideas and had great success from it. I mean, it is why the majority of authors, especially in the business space write books, and this was such a lovely audio for Robin share. Robin and I in the interest of full disclosure had never had any interactions before this. I didn’t even know about this recording. She was talking to Dan about it. So I just got to hear it in preparation for our episode today. And it just thrills me to see so many things that they have done and implemented in their business.

Dan Gingiss (36:35):
Yeah. I mean, definitely they read your book. They’ve been listening to the show and they’ve been implementing, which is awesome and let’s face it. I think she actually pointed this out. People don’t have particularly high expectations of the cleaning crew that comes to their house. And so as with many industries, experience is a way that you can stand out and exceed expectations with your customers. And that’s exactly what Robin is doing at Maid bBrigade. Now she gave some examples in her audio, but she also emailed us some other examples that I wanted to chat about because man, any one of these things would make Maid Brigade stand out to me as a company, but yet they’re doing all of them. So besides from that, you know, free cleaning products for life, they also offer a home happy hour where after 10 visits, they’ll take care of an extra task, like cleaning the refrigerator or sweeping the garage at no charge, which I love because that builds loyalty. Obviously, if I’ve stayed for 10 visits, now I’m staying for another 10 because I know my refrigerator can wait, but I mean, it’s a great little reward, their customers for staying with them. And it really doesn’t cost them a whole lot. Maybe it costs a few extra minutes for a crew to be there, but the impact is huge.

Joey Coleman (38:05):
Absolutely. And you know, the, one of my favorites that Robin shared, which ties to this one is that through their analytics, they have found that if they can keep a client for at least eight visits, that client will usually stay for, wait for it over 40 visits. So if they can get past eight, they’ll get to 40. Now friends, I get that you may not be in the maid business, but when you can figure out what your “keep them until” line is in your business, you know, Robyn figured it out that it’s eight visits. And then you see the dramatic impact that the retention in the loyalty has. It makes focusing on those initial visits that much more important. And what I think is interesting is eight visits. You figure the average cleaning crew is coming twice a month. Huh? Let’s see, four months. Oh that, Oh, what would that be? Just right around the hundred day mark, you know, just a little bit past the a hundred day Mark, the first hundred days really matter. So I love that they do this. And they’re specifically doing handwritten cards and gift certificates that are coming in in the first eight visits. They’re showering with the customers with love in those first few visits, because they know that that’s a foundation to build long-term loyalty from.

Dan Gingiss (39:26):
For sure. And the other thing that they do is they will also send a gift when they mess something up. And by the way, those were hers words, mess something up and I’m like, Oh, that’s funny. I like that. But Hey, when they, she did say, Hey, stuff happens sometimes and they immediately take ownership of it and they send some sort of gift. And her belief is that that gesture lessons, whatever problem was caused. And I think it certainly does. Now look, they break a fine vase where thousands of dollars, it’s probably not going to fix the vase, but I think we all know that mistakes happen. We all know that no business is perfect, but taking that ownership, not hiding behind it, not trying to sweep it under the rug…

Joey Coleman (40:10):
Bah dumb da!

Dan Gingiss (40:12):
He did that. Didn’t he, but actually coming out in front of it and apologizing and, and sending the client a gift is such a great idea because we’ve all seen those stats. That one break in the customer experience can cause someone to leave, but not if you do that.

Joey Coleman (40:29):
Yeah. It’s, it’s just a beautiful deposit in the karmic bank account that allows you to keep that customer, you know, the last one that Robin shared in her email to us, uh, which I think interestingly enough, ties back to the conversation we were having about Howard’s book and kind of this balance between big companies and little companies. You know, as we mentioned, Maid Brigade is part of a franchise. And while they certainly have their franchise website, they’re in the process, that is Robin and her husband, of putting together their own website that is based on, wait for it. Another callback here, our good buddy Marcus Sheridan’s book, They Ask You Answer, where they take commonly asked questions by their customers about their cleaning services, about when to clean, how to clean, et cetera, et cetera, and put them on the website so that they’re continuing to provide content and value for people in that digital experience. So look, this, this one’s fun. We’re getting to connect a lot of different pieces of the conversation here. And as we often talk about on the Experience This! Show, it’s not just one thing that creates a remarkable experience. It’s the blending of all the touch points, all the interactions to create the overall feeling that your customers and your employees and your vendors have when they think about you and your brand.

Dan Gingiss (41:48):
Well, Robin Murphy of Maid Brigade, I’m sorry. I used to live in Fairfield County for real. I don’t anymore, but yes, I would move just to have your company service my home. And thank you so much for listening to the show for engaging with us and hey, other listeners, you see what happens when you just send us an email or leave us a review. Next thing you know, we might be featuring your company on a future episode.

Joey Coleman (42:19):
Thanks for joining us for another episode of Experience This! You are the best listener ever!

Dan Gingiss (42:25):
And since you listened to the whole show…

Joey Coleman (42:28):
Yay you!

Dan Gingiss (42:29):
We’re curious, was there a specific part of this episode that you enjoyed the most? If so, it would mean the world to us if you could share it with a coworker, a friend or someone that just loves listening to podcasts.

Joey Coleman (42:39):
And while you’re in the sharing mood, if you felt inclined to jump over to iTunes or wherever you find your podcasts and write us a review, we would so appreciate it. And when you do, don’t forget to let us know as we might have a little surprise for you.

Dan Gingiss (42:55):
Thanks again for your time and we’ll see you next week for more.

Joey Coleman (42:59):
Experience.

Dan Gingiss (42:59):
This!

Episode 121 – The Sound and The Story

Join us as we discuss products that provide their own soundtrack, rockstars that aren’t real, and a story that made me want to try a brand new product.

Making, Faking, and Salting – Oh My!

Host Contact Information

Email Dan: Dan@dangingiss.com

Tweet Dan Gingiss: @DGingiss

Email Joey: JoeyC@JoeyColeman.com

DanGingiss.com

JoeyColeman.com

Subscribe to Experience This on Apple Podcasts

Learn more about our Season 7 Partner – Solvvy – The NextGen Chatbot

Episode Transcript

Download an unedited transcript of Episode 121 here or read it below:

Joey Coleman (00:05):
Welcome to Experience This!

Dan Gingiss (00:08):
The podcast that celebrates remarkable customer experiences and inspires you to stand out from the competition by wowing your customers.

Joey Coleman (00:17):
Each episode, we bring you a healthy dose of inspiring stories, funny interactions, and practical takeaways. Marketing and customer experience thought leader, Dan Gingiss…

Dan Gingiss (00:30):
shares the mic with customer retention and employee experience expert Joey Coleman, helping you to get people talking about your business.

Joey Coleman (00:40):
So get ready because it’s time to Experience This!

Joey Coleman (00:49):
Get ready, for another episode of the Experience This Show!

Dan Gingiss (00:53):
Join us as we discuss products that provide their own soundtrack, rockstars that aren’t real, and a story that made me want to try a brand new product.

Joey Coleman (01:06):
Making, faking, and salting – Oh my!

Joey Coleman (01:12):
We love telling stories and sharing key insights you can implement, or avoid, based on our experiences. Can you believe that This Just Happened?

Joey Coleman (01:26):
We’ve spoken about LEGO many times before on the show and as our loyal listeners know, I am a big fan!

Dan Gingiss (01:34):
I sure hope you’re not going to make me go find all those episodes, but yes, we have brought up LEGO and, you know, just to say, Joey, I am also a big fan. Although I would say that when my kids stopped playing with LEGOs, I also did. And so, but I, I know the feeling of getting a new set and tearing, open the package and getting ready to build something new. And it’s, it’s definitely a ton of fun.

Joey Coleman (01:58):
It is, and I will say I played with LEGO as a kid growing up. I then didn’t do as much LEGO before I had kids. Now my boys at ages five and seven are right in the LEGO sweet spot, uh, where they’re old enough to not be playing with DUPLO and excited about building sets and can follow the directions. My five-year-old is regularly doing the super advanced sets and he gets a kick out of that. And I think it’s fun too. And so just a big fan, but that’s part of the reason why I wanted to come back to LEGO and no, I’m not going to make you Dan “Rain Man,” us with all the previous episodes. You’re right. But there was a new aspect of my LEGO experience that came up over the holidays that I wanted to share. So for Christmas, my two boys gave me the Iron Man LEGO art set.

Dan Gingiss (02:45):
Oh yeah. I think I saw that in a catalog or a circular or something. It’s the one where you make a portrait of iron man out of LEGO?

Joey Coleman (02:54):
You are correct. I love that you get circulars!

Dan Gingiss (02:55):
Oh, I get the Sunday paper, man. I read the ads.

Joey Coleman (03:00):
I love it. I love it. As part of their new art series, LEGO is celebrating some of the world’s most iconic artists and bands and characters with sets that allow you to not only make wall art to display, but each set comes with several building options. So not only could I make a portrait of the famous Iron Man, Mark III, which for those of you that are not huge Iron Man fans is the suit that he wore in the first Iron Man movie. But with those same pieces and that same board, if you will, I could also make the Hulkbuster Mark I or the Mark 85, which the Mark 85 is famous for being the suit that he wears in the final battle against Thanos in the last Avengers movie

Dan Gingiss (03:49):
You asically lost me. But I think I am going to say that I know enough to know that Hulk Buster refers to “Incredible” not “Hogan.”

Joey Coleman (03:58):
You are correct.

Dan Gingiss (03:59):
Okay. That’s good.

Joey Coleman (04:00):
That’s when Incredible Hulk got into like the costume and then they had to make the, a bigger costume so that Iron Man could fight Hulk it anyway, long story short, to be honest, I’m not as much of a comic book, aficionados as I might come off as in this conversation. But I was really intrigued by this, just this whole general concept of these LEGO art sets. And if that wasn’t enough, if you purchase three of the art sets, you can combine all of them to create a giant picture or as LEGO says the “Ultimate Iron Man” piece. So as you might imagine, I’m in the process of building the ultimate Ironman piece, which is what I wanted to talk about today.

Dan Gingiss (04:39):
I think this segment might be better with video cause I could see this.

Joey Coleman (04:43):
I think it definitely would be better with video and in the interest of full disclosure, maybe by the time we released this episode about, uh, don’t hold your breath fans. I don’t know that I will be able to, uh, complete this setup before then. But if you go online and you look at Ultimate Iron Man LEGO, you’ll see a picture of it, but long story short, instead of while video would make it great. I actually wanted to talk about the audio,

Dan Gingiss (05:07):
The audio? Our listeners are already experiencing the audio.

Joey Coleman (05:13):
Well, yes they are. But I wanted to talk about the audio experience of the Iron Man LEGO art set. So when you open the box, you find the assembly manual, as you might imagine. And in the front of that manual is a little QR code with the following text underneath it. And I quote, “LISTEN – start your exclusive podcast and immerse yourself in the Iron Man story. BUILD – follow the simple building instructions in this book to create your art piece, RELAX – LEGO art is the perfect way to disconnect de-stress and decompress.” Now, when you open the landing page that the QR links to there is a one hour and 30 minute podcast featuring interviews with comic book aficionados members of the Marvel comics team that worked on iron man and the two Lego designers that oversaw the creation of this specific LEGO art set. It’s entertaining, it’s educational. It’s just the sort of unique experience that adds an unexpected layer to the LEGO set.

Dan Gingiss (06:15):
Now, hold on, hold on. Before we go further, are you about to tell me that there’s going to be a new LEGO set that comes out with a QR code that links to the experience of this show?

Joey Coleman (06:23):
You know, that would be pretty fabulous. We would have to work on that. No, but I love this idea of, and I’m not a huge QR code guy, but ever since they made it so that your phone automatically links and you don’t have to like have a separate app and figure all that out, it makes it a lot easier. But I want to play a little sample of what you hear when you start off the podcast.

Guest Voices (06:46):
It was just an interesting idea. You know, of a guy who has to wear this big bulky armor as he did at first, but you still have to build in that weakness. What is his weakness? Wait a minute. Why is this thing on his chest? Oh, wait, he almost died. You know, he’s this very fragile guy in a certain way, but he’s also like one of the richest guys in the world, a great inventor and so forth. He’s a cool exec with a heart of steel. What else is there? Iron Man was always a, uh, an evolving look. It was interesting to see the story evolve because that first outfit that Iron Man had looked like a hot water tank.

LEGO Narrator (07:22):
Imagine crafting your own wall art. Maybe it’s a passion that fascinates you, or maybe it’s the promise of an immersive creative experience. Like no other, a piece of iconic art you can build for yourself, relax and reconnect with your creative side.

Joey Coleman (07:42):
Now this podcast, as you can tell is fun. It’s educational. It’s just some interesting yet relevant background sound to accompany you, building the LEGO set. And as I think Lego probably figured out, there are a lot of people who are fans enough of Iron Man to get the set, but they’re not crazy fans in the sense. And I, and I say that lovingly not pejoratively. They’re not going to know all the nuance of who drew, which comic and what the evolution of the various costumes were. But because they’re basically showing the different outfits that are Iron Man wore, the different armor suits, they’re walking you through the history and the evolution of the armor. And I got to say this podcast soundtrack thing that they did added an entirely new dimension to my LEGO experience. I’ve been building LEGO sets since I was seven years old and I’ve never considered what I’m listening to while I build the set.

Dan Gingiss (08:43):
So it’s fascinating because we’ve talked before about different senses on the show. We’ve talked about adding smell to a hotel, lobbies talked about the bookstore that I didn’t have any lights. And so this is interesting that we’re adding some audio here. What my question for you is does it make it easier or harder to put together the LEGO set? Like, are you busy listening to the podcast? And so now it’s hard to read the instructions or does it kind of just all flow together?

Joey Coleman (09:14):
Well, what’s interesting about the Lego art sets is the best way to describe it is it’s kind of like assembling a mosaic, right? You’re looking at a grid and they’re very specific little colored disc and you’re putting them in rows. So it’s kind of a rote task, you know, put the blue one here, put the black one here. Now put another blue one. So it doesn’t require kind of the same level of mental engagement that building a set where you’re building a tower or a ship or something like that might. So I actually found it additive. I could totally understand that thought of like, Oh, is it distracting? Which interestingly enough leads me to. The next thing I wanted to share, which is that not only is LEGO created soundtracks for the various Lego art sets and you can listen to these, by the way, on the LEGO website, you don’t need to purchase the set. You can just go listen to the various soundtracks they built, but they also recently announced another sound project and knowing how much you’re a Name That Tune kind of guy, Dan, I would like to play a little tune and see if you can guess what you’re listening to. Okay. So I’ll give you a hint, obviously it’s LEGO related, but see if you can tell me what this is

Random Sound (10:42):

  • sound

Dan Gingiss (10:43):
So it kind of sounds like a bunch of LEGOs falling down, but I’m not sure…

Joey Coleman (10:46):
You are so good at name that tune, Dan. Yes, it is a waterfall of LEGOs. And not only is it a waterfall of Legos, it’s a 30 minute track of LEGOs falling of like just falling and falling and falling and fall sound. Yeah. And what’s interesting is that is one of seven tracks on the white noise playlist from LEGO available on Spotify, which we’ll link to on our show notes page. So the interesting thing about this is LEGO has realized that some people might want sound in the background and they created these long play, looping 30 minute things that are just ambient background noise, but is LEGO related. Now I’ll be honest. It might be, uh, that might be a little too far for some people, but I just thought it was super creative that they did something like that.

Dan Gingiss (11:41):
Yeah, it is pretty neat. I mean, if it’s something that you want to listen to, I don’t know if does it help you go to sleep or…

Joey Coleman (11:46):
soothing background noise when you’re making Legos, guess.

Dan Gingiss (11:53):
It kind of sounds like maybe I should create one with like pinball sounds or something.

Joey Coleman (11:57):
Yeah – exactly! Well, and I think, I think the moral of the story is Lego has recognized that they can add another dimension to their experience by thinking about the auditory experience of what’s going on when people are building their LEGO set. So what can we learn from the incredible team at LEGO? Well, consider the environment where your customer is going to be using your product or your service consider why they use your product. And if the goal is something akin to LEGO users who have a goal of disconnecting and de-stressing and decompressing, you might want to help them achieve their goal by adding an auditory experience of your brand, what is the sound of your product? How can you use sound to entertain your customers? How can you use sound to educate your customers? Take note from the creative team at LEGO and make sound a bigger part of your customers’ experience.

Joey Coleman (12:53):
Sometimes a remarkable experience deserves deeper investigation. We dive into the nitty gritty of customer interactions and dissect how, and why, they happen. Join us while we’re Dissecting The Experience.

Joey Coleman (13:11):
I’m curious, Dan, have you heard this singer before? I’m going to play a little clip:

Guest Voices (13:19):
You my número, número uno, but we overdosed You were there in my orbit like Pluto When we used to be close You said you were home, but I just caught you High at Chateau People said we would fade like a photo Didn’t think it would happen with you though I miss what we used to be Out every night in the streets.

Dan Gingiss (13:41):
Well, actually, Joey, this might surprise you… I have no clue.

Joey Coleman (13:49):
I had a feeling this one might be a little bit of a stretch, but before I explain, let me ask this. Is there anything that you can discern or tell me about this singer based on that little clip you just listened to?

Dan Gingiss (14:04):
Well, I mean, she’s females, it seems like a younger woman and uh, definitely, she was definitely saying some words in Spanish. That’s about all I got.

Joey Coleman (14:15):
All right. Well that is a pretty accurate guess. All things considered Dan you’re right? That she is a young singer. She’s 19 years old. She’s actually a Brazilian American model singer and Instagram influencer. And she’s also not human.

Dan Gingiss (14:32):
I’m sorry. I’ll rewind here. I’m sorry. Not human.

Joey Coleman (14:39):
Not human. Correct.

Dan Gingiss (14:40):
All right. I’m going to need an explanation here, Joey.

Joey Coleman (14:44):
All right. Well, I was definitely a little bit confused and wanted an explanation as well. When I first came across Lil Miquela, Dan, as it turns out, Lil Miquela is a computer generated persona created by the Los Angeles based firm Brud. Now Brud is a “transmedia studio that creates digital character driven story worlds that unfold across today’s social platforms.” Now I know that’s kind of a mouthful. That’s the way it’s described on their VC page. But the founder was previously a talent manager at Spotify and was helping artists build their personas. Now, instead of working with temperamental young recording artists, they build computer generated personas, and then bring them to life like Lil Miquela. She has over 27,000 followers on Twitter, which puts her at about 26,980 more than me. But here’s the real kicker. She has over 3 million followers on Instagram.

Dan Gingiss (15:50):
And do people know that she’s not real?

Joey Coleman (15:53):
That’s the kicker everybody’s in on it. Everybody’s in on the joke. They know that this is a computer generated avatar. It’s not a real human and they’re okay with that and they’re fans. And she interacts with people. Now we’ve spoken about something similar to this in our conversation about deep fakes being used in politics. And as you may recall, in that episode, we talked about deep fakes. It looks so real that they could confuse viewers. Now, Lil Miquela is admittedly, not real, but that takes us, I think, to a fascinating conversation about what’s real or not real. And whether that actually matters or not. Does it matter if the influencer promoting your brand or product is real? Does the analysis change when the audience knows the person isn’t real and they don’t care or better yet, they actually prefer knowing the person isn’t real like the case with Lil Miquela. Now I recently came across this website: ThisPersonDoesNotExist.com no, seriously, just type it in: ThisPersonDoesNotExist.com And when you go to this website, you’ll see a picture of a person, except it’s not a real person. It’s a computer generated image made using software from Nvidia to create an image that looks like a real person, but it isn’t a real person. And I’ll tell you, it’s almost impossible to tell the difference between what is the fake person and what is the real person.

Dan Gingiss (17:20):
ThisPersonDoesNotExist. Woah! She’s pretty…

Joey Coleman (17:27):
Yeah!

Dan Gingiss (17:27):
It’s just not real.

Joey Coleman (17:29):
Now. Now wait. And after a couple of seconds, a little thing will pop up. That explains that they use software to create this person. And if you hit refresh, you’ll see a different face… You’ll see another person.

Dan Gingiss (17:42):
Wow.

Joey Coleman (17:43):
Except except these aren’t real people. Now what’s crazy is the same creators of ThisPersonDoesNotExist.com, they have a website for cats: ThisCatDoesNotExist.com. Horses: ThisHorseDoesNotExist.com. Art! Well, you get the picture. And yet all of the pictures they’re sharing are computer generated. They aren’t real. Now while this is arguably a very interesting and maybe strange thing for us to be talking about on the experience. This show, I think this type of technology has a ton of experiential applications. I mean, within the last year of COVID protocols and lockdowns, imagine if you could still shoot commercials with quote “people,” by building them inside the computer program, imagine a manager that never needed to worry about their singer trashing a hotel room. Imagine a studio that could have an actor, an actress that never ages. Now some of these concepts were explored way back in the 2002 movie Simone. You remember that one Dan with Al Pachino?

Dan Gingiss (18:42):
I think so…

Joey Coleman (18:44):
But what’s interesting is in that movie, Al Pacino creates this computer generated actress who goes on to win all these acting awards. And that was science fiction in 2002, but that’s reality in 2021. I mean, it’s not even 20 years later. And this thing that was a Hollywood concept movie is a software that you can go on YouTube and watch a tutorial of how to make it create fake people.

Dan Gingiss (19:12):
Well now see, I was Lil Miquela. Cause you know, when you watch the video on YouTube, you can kind of tell it’s a computer generated character and hey, if her music sounds good to people. That’s all good, but I’m still stuck on ThisPersonDoesNotExist that I keep hitting refresh and refresh. I’m like, wait a minute. These people don’t exist. They all look like unbelievably real. And that starts to get really, really scary, especially in a world that you and I have been living in, in the United States where real news fake, no news lie is true. We don’t even know the difference anymore. This can make that even more complicated.

Joey Coleman (19:50):
Absolutely. And when you think about your brand and when you think about, you know, spokespeople or influencers that you might want promoting your products or services, and then you think about customers that you might interact with, or customer photos that you might have on a website or use in your marketing materials. Do those have to be real people? I mean, I think at the end of the day, most Americans know when they see an advertisement that those are actors that they’re hired to play.

Dan Gingiss (20:21):
Or are they?!

Joey Coleman (20:23):
But here’s the crazy thing. What if they’re not, what if you can get them to say anything? What if you can make a video or a computer generated persona that looks like someone famous, but isn’t really them. I mean, there was an ad during the Super Bowl that was about all the lookalikes and it had Christopher Walken’s voice and then the final, this, we’re long enough after the Super Bowl, I feel like I don’t need to say spoiler alert, but at the end of the commercial, they pull back and it’s a guy who says, and I’m not Christopher Walken and they show the guy and he’s definitely not Christopher Walken. And yet all this time, you’ve thought Christopher Walken was doing the voiceover. I think this is just crazy. When we think about building brands and building experiences and building interactions with our customers and with our employees, what defines real?

Dan Gingiss (21:14):
Well. I think that we know in customer experience that authenticity being genuine are things that customers value. So in the situation of Lil Miquela where people know they’re listening to something, computer generated fantastic, right? I mean, that’s part of the allure. And so I love that. I think we gotta be very careful though, when we’re trying to deep, fake our own customers into thinking something is real when it’s not, you know, you could go down a whole lot of bad paths with this, including, you know, fake testimonials and all sorts of things that I think are, we certainly would not advise on this show, but like the deep fakes that we talked about, I think it’s great to know that this technology exists so that you can watch out for it – either you, or your competition, or whoever else – and be aware of it and look, let’s keep it real folks.

Joey Coleman (22:08):
Absolutely. I mean, I don’t think I want to be very clear. I’m not suggesting any of our listeners create deep fake customers or personas. But what I am suggesting is that the landscape of influencers and content creation is changing in ways that I think most people aren’t even aware of let alone, considering I’d ask those people who are listening to answer this question, honestly, had you even heard of Lil Miquela before this segment? Now the answer is no. I’d like to suggest that you ask some teenagers, you know, or some folks that are in their early twenties, if they’ve heard of Lil Miquela and if so, what if they, what do they think of her or her music, or if you’re not into regular conversations with, uh, teens or people in their early twenties go to Lil Miquela’s Instagram profile and look through some of the images, try to find ones that you know are fake, but look real and then read her posts and the comments and the interactions and see if you can get a feel for what the personality is like. And then ponder the fact that you’re considering a personality and a persona that is entirely computer generated, and then ask what would happen if you brought this same level of creative thinking and technology application to the experiences that you’re creating for your customer.

Joey Coleman (23:28):
Almost everyone has interacted with chatbots, but all too often, it’s been a bad experience. In MythBusters – presented by Solvvy – we explore a common myth about CX chatbots and see how the right technology can create a positive experience every time.

Joey Coleman (23:54):
Today’s myth about chatbots? Chatbots are difficult and expensive to build and manage. Most people think that chatbots require significant time and an entire engineering team to build, not to mention dedicated subject matter experts and even more engineers to manage on an ongoing basis. Once the chatbot is put in place. In other words, chatbots require lots of time, money, and resources.

Dan Gingiss (24:22):
Now, while there is a myth that chatbots are expensive and difficult to manage, the reality is that modern chatbots are easy to implement and can learn on their own. Unlike traditional chatbots that require you to code for every possible question and answer combination you might possibly see next gen chatbots are able to access your company’s help content and use that information to answer customer questions.

Joey Coleman (24:46):
You don’t need to have a whole team on standby either. The chat bot learns and updates answers dynamically, which means the chatbot continues to get better with each passing day. Now, the best part modern chatbots can be fully rolled out and implemented in weeks, not months, and often don’t require any engineering support, friends. This isn’t like creating a computer, generated Instagram influencer and growing her following to 3 million plus people. No! It’s much easier and it requires a much smaller investment.

Dan Gingiss (25:20):
Well, that sounds so much better than what I was thinking, Joey, because let’s be honest. I didn’t exactly go to school to be a computer engineer. And I like how that a project isn’t going to have costs that spiral out of control once I decide to jump in.

Joey Coleman (25:34):
That’s another myth busted, thanks to our friends at Solvvy – the Next Gen Chatbot.

Joey Coleman (25:43):
Sometimes a remarkable experience deserves deeper investigation. We dive into the nitty gritty of customer interactions and dissect how, and why, they happen. Join us while we’re Dissecting the Experience.

Joey Coleman (26:00):
I receive a fair number of e-newsletters each week and every once in a while, something grabs my attention and causes me to act such was the case. When I was reading my buddy Nathan Barry’s newsletter. Now Nathan is the CEO of ConvertKit, a fantastic email marketing tool, and while his communications are often about advances in email technology or growing subscribers or turning audience members into fans, this particular email was all about salt.

Dan Gingiss (26:31):
Was it worth its salt?

Joey Coleman (26:34):
Gosh, I can’t believe you went there. Yes, yes, indeed. It was worth its salt. So Nathan told this story of some salt that his wife ordered from San Juan Island Sea Salt. That’s the name of the company. And the story was so different and so interesting that based on his telling of the story alone, I decided to order some, I then had my own experience with the salt, which I wanted to dissect in our conversation here today.

Dan Gingiss (27:02):
All right! Let’s spice things up!

Joey Coleman (27:07):
Sorry ladies and gentlemen, he’s out of control! All right. Let’s get into the salt. All right. So first things first I went to SanJuanIslandSeaSalt.com. Okay. Real easy to remember URL San Juan,

Dan Gingiss (27:21):
It’s real sea salt, right?

Joey Coleman (27:24):
This is not Lil Miquela’s favorite sea salt.. And I immediately saw this text, “Sunshine and seawater. It’s a simple formula. We rely on purely solar heat to evaporate our seawater. No fans, no heaters, no boiling.” Now Dan, you’ve never heard of San Juan Island sea salt before, correct?

Dan Gingiss (27:45):
I can’t say that I have Joey…

Joey Coleman (27:47):
But what do you think they sell?

Dan Gingiss (27:49):
Uh, I’m going to go out on a limb and say sea salt?

Joey Coleman (27:52):
Exactly. And where are they based?

Dan Gingiss (27:54):
Oh, how about San Juan Island?

Joey Coleman (27:57):
And how do you think they make the salt? What’s the process by which they make the salt?

Dan Gingiss (28:02):
Oh, well it’s a simple formula. They rely on purely solar heat to evaporate the seawater. No fans, no heaters, no boiling!

Joey Coleman (28:09):
Exactly. Now here’s the crazy thing. I know you are a huge fan of clear language and using specific, clear, easy to understand by everyone language in your marketing. And here I am three and a half seconds into their website experience. And I know exactly what they do. That’s not always the case when I go to a website. In fact, that’s rarely the case. When I go to a website now, a couple of the text, I just shared with the images of the water and the various greenhouses, where they had these trays of water laid out to dry in the sun. And then more images of them actually scooping salt out of the trays. And I get it. So now it’s time to check out their website navigation. So I see the following words for the navigation: Story, Salt, Shop, Honey, and Contact.

Dan Gingiss (28:57):
Well, this is very clear and straight forward and much better than navigation on a lot of companies, websites. We talked about this as well in a previous episode about how navigation I remember we had, we talked to those, to that design company that had gone through the B2B navigation site.

Joey Coleman (29:18):
Exactly! And basically found that the navigation was horrid. Yeah, actually, Oh,

Dan Gingiss (29:22):
Now I got it. Joey. It was Season two, episode 48. Of course it was Tank Design.

Joey Coleman (29:29):
Wow, impressive. Impressive. Yeah. I would not have remembered this specific episode or season as usual. I love it. I love it. So I decided that I would click on story because I to learn more,

Dan Gingiss (29:42):
You see, I would’ve chosen honey, but okay. Keep going.

Joey Coleman (29:44):
I figured as much exactly. Well then I learned that the business began when the founder is a young college student made sea salt for Christmas gifts. He and his friends boiled seawater on their parents’ stove, but it took forever. It made a huge mess in a wasted, a ton of electricity. So years later, after working on a vegetable farm, he thought he could use his greenhouse building skills to create a salt operation. That was more energy efficient. He created a batch, took some jars to the local farmer’s market and sold $700 the first day.

Dan Gingiss (30:14):
I love it. He was like a self-made man with salts. I mean, it’s, that’s a fantastic story. And I love that story is even part of their navigation and, and you’re right for going there because we all like a good story about a brand. We all want to hear where things come from. A lot of people, I know you and your wife care very much about how things are made and where they come from and how environmentally friendly it is and all that sort of thing. So this definitely sounds interesting.

Joey Coleman (30:43):
Yeah. You know, it’s salt, it’s something that we use pretty regularly. I would say almost every dinner. There’s some involvement in salt, either in the preparation of the meal or in the actual eating of the meal. And this is kind of a fun way to support a local small business. So I’m in, unlike in the story, I think it’s fascinating. And so I went to their shop and I purchased three jars of salt, their signature natural salt, a steak blend salt, and a bull kelp salt.

Dan Gingiss (31:15):
Of course you went for the bull kelp salt! What the heck is bull kelp salt anyway?

Joey Coleman (31:20):
Well, I was wondering the same thing. And when I read the description on their website, which I’m going to share here in a second, I was sold before I got to the last paragraph. So let me read this. And you tell me when you’ve moved from just being curious or intrigued to, I got to taste this. “Bull kelp (Nereocystis lutkeana) is the king of the vegetative waterworld here in the Pacific Northwest. It has always captured my imagination for the thick forest. It forms along our islands, Rocky shores and for its sheer growing ability. Its average growth rate is four inches a day. But what many people don’t realize is that bull kelp is also a delicious and nutritious seafood. It’s with this in mind that we bring you our Pacific Northwest inspired flavored salt. We source our bull kelp from a very cool small family business in British Columbia, Canada called BC kelp. The business is run by a lovely young couple and they wild harvest all different sorts of seaweed in a sustainable manner from the cold clean waters of the queen, Charlotte islands. In fact, they learned their trade studying under the legendary wild plant guru, Ryan Drum of Waldron Island. The taste and smell of this product will remind you of picnics on a Rocky Northwest beach in the summer briny, salty, with a deep green earthiness. We like our kelp salt on eggs potatoes. And of course, salmon rounding out local seafoods “merroir” like terroir for the sea.

Dan Gingiss (32:52):
Oh, sign me up. I’m hungry, man.

Joey Coleman (32:55):
I mean, I, I read this and I was like, Oh my gosh, the story is in the product listing. And like, I want to know about this couple and I’m intrigued like, Oh, they’re getting the kelp and they’re mixing it in. And then as it dries, I’ve got little kelp flakes blended in with the salt and I’m there. So I put everything in the cart and I get a message saying that because of COVID they were only shipping once a week. So understandably expect some delays receiving the salt and then they signed off with a message. It said, “Thank you for shopping with us. It allows our family to do what we love for a living and live in the most beautiful place in the world. We’re so grateful for the opportunity to serve you.”

Dan Gingiss (33:31):
I see. There you go. You just put some money on your credit card. You could have buyer’s remorse, but you get a message like that and you feel good about making that purchase.

Joey Coleman (33:40):
Absolutely. And let me tell you I’ve purchased salt at the grocery store many times over the years I’ve even purchased some kind of fancy salts. I’ve never felt like I’m actually helping a human live, their dream and help their family, and envisioning what their salt farm must look like. Now, despite thinking that it would be a week to 10 days before I received my salt, three days later, a package arrived in the mail with a sticker on the side that featured an infographic that explained the sea salt harvest process at San Juan Island Sea Salt and an illustration of Essene. I think I’m saying Essene’s name properly, but if I’m not, please forgive me. Evidently as Essene is the employee that packed our salt and it showed that as Essene’s favorite product offered by San Juan Sea Salt is their Chili Lime Salt, the favorite place on the Island is Ruben Tart park in the Moonlight, and a little factoid about Essene is that their first job ever was wrapping caramels with San Juan Island Sea Salt

Dan Gingiss (34:45):
Things here. Sign me up for some chili lime salt, please. And I also noticed that this company sells caramels with sea salt and sign me up for some of those too.

Joey Coleman (34:55):
Amen brother. Right? How classic that they’ve built this entire salt based ecosystem.

Dan Gingiss (35:02):
All right. So we got to get down to this. So yeah, open the package, cook up your salmon or whatever it is and you use it was this like better than the salt at the grocery store.

Joey Coleman (35:12):
Oh my gosh. Here’s the thing. Not only do I think it tasted better, but I actually thought about the story while I was eating it. And I shared with my family, Hey, guess how they made this salt? I’m talking to my boys about how we made salt and I’ll be honest. And maybe this shows bad parenting that prior to now, we’ve never had a conversation about where does our table salt come from,

Dan Gingiss (35:35):
Terrible.

Joey Coleman (35:37):
But I found myself talking about it and the boys were asking about the bull kelp and you know, how did it work and how, what does it mean to harvest kelp? And how does that work? And we’re now living in Iowa and we’ve got a family farm here and so we are going to be, you know, the boys were part of the harvest that we had last fall and they’re going to be part of the planting in the spring. So it just felt like this great opportunity to connect with the source of our food, which is you and I have talked about before is increasingly such a big part of what so many consumers are looking for. Now, you might be listening to this and thinking to yourself, okay, but Joey, I don’t have a sea salt company. I don’t have a product company. I don’t…

Dan Gingiss (36:20):
Bring it home Joey. That’s what they’re saying. Bring it home!

Joey Coleman (36:22):
Let’s dissect it. What can we do? Number one, make sure your website is straightforward and easy to navigate. Explain what you do quickly and efficiently. Go on your website right now and if in 3.5 seconds, a brand new visitor, who’s never even heard of your company knows doesn’t understand exactly what you do, start rewriting your copy. Number two, tell your story in a compelling way, your imagining what this family looks like. You’re imagining harvesting the bulk help. You’re imagining what it looks like to stand in these greenhouses and see the sun evaporating the seawater and leaving the salt that they then scoop into the jars. Why are you imaginating that? Why are you imaginating that? That’s classic

Dan Gingiss (37:04):
Why are you making up words?!

Joey Coleman (37:05):
Exactly. Why are you imagining that? Because they told a great story. So explain your inspirations, explain your evolutions. Number three, make it easy to give you money. Oh man, the checkout process should be smooth and you should manage expectation. And they did a great job. Number four, be sincere. Say, thank you. Explain how much you appreciate your customers’ patronage. Number five, deliver early. It’s better to tell me the package will be there in 10 days and then have it arrive in half that time then to tell me it will take two days and have it arrive on day three. And number six, use your packaging to continue telling your story long after the sale has concluded. Don’t make your packaging just about a brand expression. Make it a story expression. Now, if you’ve been intrigued by San Juan Island Sea Salt, I suggest you check them out. See if you like their story. And if you do buy some salt and by the way, there might be some salt sitting around here in some care packages that we send to some of our loyal listeners who reach out and share ideas with us for segments during season seven, or make suggestions for our new, ask us anything segment you might’ve heard about in one of our earlier episodes or take other steps just to let us know you’re listening. Hey, we want to send you some salt and whether it’s the chili lime salt or the bull kelp salt, you think you’re going to like it!

Dan Gingiss (38:23):
And it’s going to be worth it’s salt!

Joey Coleman (38:25):
Thanks for joining us for another episode of Experience This! You are the best listener ever!

Dan Gingiss (38:36):
And since you listened to the whole show,

Joey Coleman (38:38):
Yay you!

Dan Gingiss (38:39):
We’re curious… Was there a specific part of this episode that you enjoyed the most? If so, it would mean the world to us if you could share it with a coworker, a friend, or someone that just loves listening to podcasts!

Joey Coleman (38:50):
And while you’re in the sharing mood, if you felt inclined to jump over to iTunes or wherever you find your podcasts and write us a review, we would so appreciate it. And when you do, don’t forget to let us know as we might have a little surprise for you.

Dan Gingiss (39:05):
Thanks again for your time and we’ll see you next week for more,

Joey Coleman (39:08):
Experience!

Dan Gingiss (39:08):
This!

Episode 117 – Making Your Mark on Brand Ambassadors

Join us as we discuss making your mark on your best customers, why the robots may be coming faster than we think, and how holiday shopping habits are changing amidst a global pandemic.

Ambassadors, Game-Changers, and Shoppers – Oh My!

[Dissecting the Experience] Making Your Mark on Brand Ambassadors

Things We Mentioned in This Segment:

Makers Mark
Maker’s Mark Ambassador Program
• “If this is a Consular Ship, where is the Ambassador?
Makers Mark Invitation
Giftology – by John Ruhlin
Never Lose a Customer Again – by Joey Coleman

[Book Report] The Age of Intent

Things We Mentioned in This Segment:

P.V. Kannan
[24]7.ai
Age of Intent – by P.V. Kannan
F8 Conference

[Partnership with Avtex] The Dream Job – Game Show Host!

Things We Mentioned in This Segment:

• Experience Points – presented by Avtex

[CX Press] Ecommerce Marketing 2020

• Ignite Visibility
• Ecommerce Marketing Study 2020

Host Contact Information

Email Dan: Dan@dangingiss.com

Tweet Dan Gingiss: @DGingiss

Email Joey: JoeyC@JoeyColeman.com

DanGingiss.com

JoeyColeman.com

Subscribe to Experience This on Apple Podcasts

Episode Transcript

Download an unedited transcript of Episode 117 here or read it below:

[SHOW INTRO]
Dan Gingiss (00:05):
Welcome to Experience This!

Joey Coleman (00:08):
Where you’ll find inspiring examples of customer experience, great stories of customer service, and tips on how to make your customers love you even more.

Dan Gingiss (00:17):
Always upbeat and definitely entertaining customer retention expert, Joey Coleman.

Joey Coleman (00:23):
and social media expert, Dan Gingiss, serve as your hosts for a weekly dose of positive customer experience.

Dan Gingiss (00:30):
So hold on to your headphones… It’s time to Experience This!

[EPISODE 117 INTRO]
Dan Gingiss (00:39):
Get ready, for another episode of the Experience This! Show!

Joey Coleman (00:45):
Join us as we discuss: making your mark on your best customers, why the robots may be coming faster than we think, and how holiday shopping habits are changing amidst a global pandemic.

Dan Gingiss (01:00):
Ambassadors, game changers, and shoppers. Oh My!

[SEGMENT INTRO – DISSECTING THE EXPERIENCE]
Joey Coleman (01:08):
Sometimes a remarkable experience deserves deeper investigation. We dive into the nitty gritty of customer interactions and dissect how and why they happen. Join us while we’re Dissecting the Experience.

[DISSECTING THE EXPERIENCE][Making Your Mark on Brand Ambassadors ]
Dan Gingiss (01:25):
Well, Joey it’s time for the holidays and you know what that means.

Joey Coleman (01:30):
Snow covered rooftops, the crackling fire, a glass of eggnog, presents under the tree…

Dan Gingiss (01:36):
Nope.

Dan Gingiss (01:36):
Wait, what do you mean? Nope. All of those things are coming?!

Dan Gingiss (01:39):
Well, those are all fine things except for eggnog, which I happen to think is the single grossest substance ever invented.

Joey Coleman (01:48):
You know, egg nog is not that bad. It can be pretty tasty if you get the right brand, if you get the right brand. It’s a branding question here.

Dan Gingiss (01:54):
But anyway, I wasn’t talking about that. I was actually thinking about something else. I was thinking about the annual gift that I receive in the mail from Maker’s Mark bourbon.

Joey Coleman (02:03):
They send you bourbon in the mail?

Dan Gingiss (02:06):
Uh, Joey, from your lips to the master distiller’s ears. But nope, I don’t think they’re allowed to do that, but still they always send me a gift and they have for years. Once a year, I get a surprise in the mail from Maker’s Mark. One year I got ice ball molds with their logo in it. I got a little miniature Christmas sweater for my bottle. I got a little Santa hat for my bottle. I got coasters. And one year I got this gigantic tube in the mail and I had no idea what it was. It turned out to be maker’s Mark wrapping paper, complete with the Makers Mark bows to go on top.

Joey Coleman (02:44):
Wow!

Dan Gingiss (02:44):
And I get all of these gifts because I am what is called a Maker’s Mark ambassador.

Joey Coleman (02:53):
Aww haw haw! So you should be properly addressed that way. I think going forward…

Dan Gingiss (02:56):
Mr. Ambassador, yes…

Dan Gingiss (02:58):
Actually, if you must…

Joey Coleman (02:59):
Is there an ambassador on this ship?!

Dan Gingiss (03:01):
I don’t know. I don’t know if I, this is maybe fast forwarding to the end here, but I’m actually an ambassador for life.

Joey Coleman (03:06):
How does that happen?!

Dan Gingiss (03:06):
So you should refer to me as “Mr. Ambassador” for life.

Joey Coleman (03:10):
Usually the ambassador changes with the next election and the next administration. So I’m, I’m calling fake news on this ambassador for life thing!

Dan Gingiss (03:19):
I caan show you my “Ambassador for Life” wooden business card, if you like.

Joey Coleman (03:25):
Wow. We should get a photo of that for the show notes!

Dan Gingiss (03:28):
Let me tell you how this began a long time ago, I went down to Louisville to visit and I did a distillery tour or wanted to do a story to, or rather at Maker’s Mark, which is actually located outside of Louisville in Loretto, Kentucky. And unfortunately the day that I got there, they told me that the distillery was closed. Why was it closed? Well, because they were celebrating Ambassador Day and only ambassadors could take the distillery tour. So true story. I said to the nice lady, well, how do I become an ambassador?

Joey Coleman (04:01):
What kind of donation do I need to make? Or who did I need to be college roommates with to become an ambassador?

Dan Gingiss (04:06):
Exactly. And she said, just fill out this form.

Joey Coleman (04:12):
Wow! Nice!

Dan Gingiss (04:12):
Does it cost anything? No. Okay.

Joey Coleman (04:15):
Really?! Oh nice!

Dan Gingiss (04:16):
So I filled out the form and became Maker’s Mark’s newest ambassador, and then was allowed in on the distillery tour, which was great. Now what happens when you become an ambassador at maker’s Mark is they actually put your name onto like a metal badge onto the barrel. So it gets affixed onto the barrel. And your name is with, uh, I dunno, about 10 other names on each barrel. And for those that don’t know, I mean, a barrel makes at least a couple hundred bottles of, uh, of, uh, bourbon. So it’s big, but your name gets put on it and they send you in the mail, a photo of the, of your barrel that has your name on it. They send you a birth certificate, quote, unquote of, uh, the day that your barrel was born and was first filled.

Joey Coleman (05:03):
Nice. It’s kind of like the birth certificate you used to get if you got a Cabbage Patch Doll, but this is for grown ups.

Dan Gingiss (05:09):
Exactly!

Joey Coleman (05:10):
I like it! I like it!

Dan Gingiss (05:10):
They send you periodic videos of the progress of, uh, your barrel because you may or may not know Joey, but…

Joey Coleman (05:17):
It ages over time!

Dan Gingiss (05:18):
It does, at least at Maker’s Mark, for eight years.

Joey Coleman (05:22):
That’s a long aging process.

Dan Gingiss (05:25):
It is, it is. And so eight years Maker’s Mark is obviously playing a long game and I was trying to figure out all along the marketer in me, what is the long game? And during those eight years, every one of them, they sent me a gift at the holidays.

Joey Coleman (05:41):
Now, just to make sure I’m understanding, because I think our listeners might be wondering the same thing. You’re getting all these gifts and you haven’t spent a penny with them, right?

Dan Gingiss (05:51):
They don’t know and I think that’s one of the most fascinating parts…

Joey Coleman (05:55):
They might presume that because you’re an ambassador, like who would come and sign up to be an ambassador if they weren’t already a fan of the brand, but there’s no requirement to give them money to get these perks…

Dan Gingiss (06:04):
There is no requirement and they don’t have the ability to track because it’s a product that’s bought at a retail store. They don’t guarantee data right now, as it turns out, I am a fan of Maker’s Mark bourbon, but they, again, they don’t know that. And I think that’s one of the key parts of this story is that they, there is some faith that they’re putting into their ambassador program, that these are people that care enough about the brand. I mean, just some of the people take the gifts and go put them on eBay every year. Yes they do. But for the most part, these are people that really are big brand fans. And the climax of the experience comes when you get the invitation.

Joey Coleman (06:44):
The invitation, what is the invitation to?

Dan Gingiss (06:49):
Well, it actually looks like a wedding invitation and it’s got this fancy script writing. And it says that you’re cordially invited to Loretto, Kentucky, to Maker’s Mark distillery to claim two bottles of Maker’s Mark from your very own barrel. So your little, your baby, that you got the birth certificate for is now all…

Joey Coleman (07:11):
Eight years later, you get to go to the graduation ceremony and get two bottles. So let me guess… You got in your car, you drove the five and a half hours from Chicago to Loretto, and then you…

Dan Gingiss (07:22):
Wait, wait, whose story is this?

Joey Coleman (07:24):
Okay. Sorry. Sorry.

Dan Gingiss (07:26):
Okay. So I got in my car and I drove the five and a half hours from Chicago to Loretto. We had the most amazing experience at the distillery. I’m not kidding you walk in. And when you say that you’re here to collect your bottles, it is almost like how you greeted me at the beginning of this segment. Every one of the employees is in on the experience and they hand you a, they first give you a lapel pin to put on your shirt so that everybody knows that you are a visiting ambassador and they all treat you like you’re royalty. And you go through these various steps. So they actually handed me the bottles and they were completely blank. They were filled, but they were completely blank. And the first thing that I, the first station I went to, they printed a label and it was a personalized label. I could have it say anything, you know, my name or whatever, anything that I wanted on the label

Joey Coleman (08:16):
Gift for Joey Coleman, for example!

Dan Gingiss (08:17):
Exactly, except I an know that’s not appropriate gift or you so I wouldn’t do that.

Dan Gingiss (08:23):
My personalized label. And they print it out. I get to affix the labels to the bottles myself. And then they bring you over to anybody that knows the brand Maker’s Mark knows that the Maker’s Mark bottle is known for being dipped in wax. [inaudible]

Joey Coleman (08:39):
Right. Yeah. And it’s usually red, but if it’s one of the more signature brands I think they do a blue,

Dan Gingiss (08:44):
Well, they sometimes celebrate sports teams and that sort of thing, but I got to dip my own bottles into the hot wax and it was so cool. And of course at that station, you know, that it’s a different person, but that, that person is like, well welcome, Mr. Ambassador. We’re so happy to have you. And you know, everybody’s so nice. So you get to, you get to dip your, put your label on and you dip the thing. And anyway, this all happened. Probably now I’m going to say at least eight years ago that I went and picked up my eight year old bottle.

Joey Coleman (09:18):
So you’ve been an ambassador for 16 years…

Dan Gingiss (09:21):
Something like that. Yeah. Something like that. And you know, what’s really interesting. I have not opened either one of those bottles and I can’t.

Joey Coleman (09:28):
I feel like you never would, right? Because it’s like, Oh, it’s, it’s a memento. It’s not that, you know, you were going to drink it. It’s a, it’s an artifact of your experience.

Dan Gingiss (09:39):
Yeah – I could drink it and I could refill it. And no one would be any of the wiser other than me, but I would say, yes, that is true. But in any event, I am reminded of this every single year. And I haven’t yet gotten my maker’s Mark gift this year, but I will be sure to let you know when it comes, because it’s always creative, it’s branded, but not in the way that, uh, that your friend, John Ruhlin at Giftology says don’t do you know that it’s not like a commercial for Makers Mark after all, this is a brand that I have an affinity towards. So I kinda like that it’s branded.

Joey Coleman (10:13):
Sure, sure.

Dan Gingiss (10:14):
And I just, I think that the lesson here is that not enough companies play the long game with their customers and you know, you, we talk about, you know, your book talks about how to get people in the first hundred days to stick with you for a long time. And when we are able to improve our retention. And as I like to say, stop the leaky bucket and keep our customers, we still got to make sure that that experience continues to be something that’s worthy of them giving us their loyalty all these years.

Joey Coleman (10:47):
Absolutely. Well, I mean, this really appreciates the lifetime value of the customer. I mean, when you sign up to be an ambassador, they already have the next eight years of communications planned. Now they might not necessarily know what gifts they’re going to give in year five. Right? But they know they’re going to give you a gift in year five. And it wouldn’t surprise me if the folks at maker’s Mark, given the thoughtfulness that clearly they put into the ambassador experience that they’re actually planning out the gifts so that each year they’re kind of building in a sequence. So yeah. Talk about practicing what you preach. You say you care about your customers. How many of our listeners are really thinking about the relationship they’re going to have with their customer today, eight years from now?

Dan Gingiss (11:34):
Exactly, exactly. And that long game is so important. We talk about lifetime value, but we talk about it as a number, literally as a dollar amount. And that’s almost as bad as, you know, treating a customer like an account number, right? Your value is not just a dollar number. And I think if we look at our customers that way and look at the true long-term relationship and what that means, and, you know, for example, long-term value, doesn’t include how many times I tell people about Maker’s Mark, right? It might, it might include how many bottles I buy. I obviously we said they can’t track that, but for, you know, for your company out there, listeners, it might involve sales, but does it even take into consideration that a loyal customer is going to tell other people the other takeaway? I think that is important is it is the holiday season. And it is a, an obvious, but also still great time to remember your customers. You don’t have to send them a gift, but do something other than sending an email saying happy holidays, right? Do something that at least shows you – shows them – that you remember them and appreciate them and get them into the holiday spirit. As they’re thinking about,

[SEGMENT INTRO – BOOK REPORT]
Joey Coleman (12:44):
We’re excited to give you an overview of an important book you should know about as well as share some of our favorite passages as part of our next Book Report.

[BOOK REPORT][Age of Intent by P.V. Kannan]
Dan Gingiss (12:56):
This week’s Book Report features a book called the age of intent using artificial intelligence to deliver a superior customer experience. It’s written by PV Kannan, who is the founder and CEO of a company called 24 seven.ai, which is an artificial intelligence powered digital and voice automation platform. Now, I thought this was a provocative title because let’s face it. We’re still figuring out the role of artificial intelligence in our business, let alone in the customer experience.

Joey Coleman (13:29):
I agree, Dan, you know, I got to say, when you mentioned to me before we started recording that we were, when we talked about featuring this book in a book report, I was intrigued and I got even more intrigued when we got into the book, which we’ll come to because AI is talked about so much, but I know very few companies that have actually figured out how they’re going to do this. And I wonder if at some point we’ll look back on this time in history and be like, gosh, do you remember when people weren’t using AI? Kind of like we might say, geez, do you remember when people were using fax machines or do you remember when people didn’t have cell phones? You know, it seems so, so long ago and those are tools. Whereas I think of AI, as you know, frankly, at layering, a level of intelligence on your business that we can’t even begin to fathom all the things we’re going to learn.

Dan Gingiss (14:23):
Well, I can tell you, Mr. Kannan has started fathoming it and I think that’s what made this book really cool. And yeah, I agree. I mean, I look at AI and on one hand it scares me. And on the other hand, it excites me and I’m always reminded of a few years ago, I was asked to do a very, uh, private presentation in a Las Vegas conference room for a company’s top six or clients and one of the things they asked me to do in the presentation was to bring, and I’m quote, an example of a great chat bot. I was like, Oh my wow. That’s like the toughest assignment I’ve ever been given…

Joey Coleman (15:06):
That’s an oxymoron isn’t it? Like, especially then! Maybe now it’s better, but ugh…

Dan Gingiss (15:11):
Exactly. Then it really was tough. And I do think that it’s gotten far better and thanks to companies like [24]7 and so that’s what I thought it was really interesting. So let’s jump to PV Kannan, in his own words, giving us an overview of his book.

P.V. Kannan (15:27):
I wish that every company you interacted with could just know what you wanted and go get it for you. That when you pick up the phone or open the chat window that the company would use, what did knew about you to anticipate your needs there on the words of a future, just like that. As a leader of [24]7.ai, a company that uses AI to improve customer experience. I share my expertise here on how and why, which will agent rollout succeed or fail. Uh, explain how to architect key information systems overcome corporate resistance and bad practices and successfully analyzed customer journeys to make virtual agents effective. The book that I wrote, Age of Intent, is about a world where the smartest type of chat bots known as virtual agents are powered by artificial intelligence and connected to a customer’s complete profile and past history in order to be generous of the customer. These virtual agents can anticipate just what a customer is looking for, answering questions through chat on the phone, through Apple iMessage and Facebook Messenger and through smart speakers like Amazon’s Alexa and Google Home, they will transform the business world with efficient, scalable service. That’s available 24 seven and get smarter every day. The book contains real world examples from leading companies, both those who got it right and those who got it wrong – with lessons learned that you can apply to your business. I’m very proud to say that the age of intent was named one of the best business books by Strategy & Business and award-winning management magazine for decision-makers around the world. I hope you enjoy reading my book as much as I enjoyed writing it.

Dan Gingiss (17:27):
So, Joey, what do you think of the world of which P.V. speaks, where, and I quote, “every company you interacted with could just know what you wanted and go get it for you?”

Joey Coleman (17:38):
You know, Dan, like you said, before we heard from P.V., AI excites me, and intrigues me, and it terrifies me as well. Right? I think the, the most recent research I saw about Facebook and just the algorithms that are running and to make a distinction here, algorithms versus AI, two very different things. The algorithm, if you like a post after 150 likes the algorithm at Facebook is better at knowing whether you will like the next post you see than your spouse is and after 300 likes, it’s better at knowing whether you will like the next post than you are. Right. And that’s an algorithm. So the AI piece of this that is scary is like, Oh, at what point do the robots take over? And are they smart, quote, unquote smarter than us. But the flip side of it is every area of my life. I find myself running towards the convenient solution. I find myself running towards the thing that can take the parts of life that I don’t really get excited about and just put them on autopilot. Like I don’t get excited about finding out that we’re out of paper towels. Right? I would love it if they just showed up, I would love it. If just some of these things happen, I would love it. If you know, the 10 sites that I actually care about AI knew to put their Cyber Monday deals in front of me, you know, and that type of thing. So I do think there are some places where AI can really make our lives easier. And I’m excited to see what that’s gonna look like!

Dan Gingiss (19:14):
For sure. I mean, automation can be great. It’s a, it is a convenience factor. It’s a speed factor as, as you said, and those are things that we know customers want. I think the key is, and I’ve been saying this for a while, is that there is a human element that customers, I believe personally are always going to want to desire, but they certainly desire today. And the machine has to know when it’s hit its limit. And so what I ended up doing in that speech, by the way, because I literally at the time could not find one that I thought was worthy of sharing is I ended up sharing one that was held up by Mark Zuckerberg at, uh, at the at Facebook’s F8 conferences being, you know, one of the newest and greatest at the time. And I went through the experience and what I found was when I got stuck and I needed help, the whole experience collapsed because in my case, what happened was the chat bot asked me if I wanted to talk to customer service. I said, yes, it responded to customer service was closed, begging the question, why it asked me in the first place, but then, but then the live customer service agent actually joined the chat. And I was talking to both the bot and the agent at the same time.

Joey Coleman (20:31):
Nice.

Dan Gingiss (20:32):
And so like, my head was going to explode!

Joey Coleman (20:35):
Yeah, exactly. Well, and, and it begilles the phrase “artificial intelligence” when it’s not acting intelligent. Right. And chatbots probably aren’t necessarily seen as artificial intelligence and even the conversation or the example I was giving about automation really isn’t necessarily artificial intelligence. It’s maybe the lowest levels of artificial intelligence where my gut instinct is P.V. Is hinting at things that go beyond what we’ve seen now.

Dan Gingiss (21:04):
Absolutely. Absolutely. And that brings me to my favorite passage, which I think is one of his key selling points for why we should be thinking about this. And you and I have both heard hundreds of times of companies looking at the entire contact center as a cost center. And I think we know better that, that it really should be looked at more as a revenue center, but one of the things I was worried about when AI came onto the scene and virtual agents came onto the scene was that there would be some companies that would immediately look at it as a cost savings initiative. Hey, let’s get rid of all the human agents and just have the computers do it, or the robots do it. So this is the quote that I really loved from his book. He said, “[o]nce you recognize that virtual agents, aren’t primarily about squeezing out costs, you can see the big picture, how they position your service operation to generate a better experience, build loyalty and focus humans on what humans do best, which is to solve complicated problems and make emotional connections.”

Joey Coleman (22:07):
Uh, so well said, Dan! Especially that part about emotional connections. Cause I do agree that’s the piece of the puzzle that we’re going to struggle with with AI. Can we teach AI empathy? You know, it’s funny. My favorite passage actually comes directly after yours in the book in chapter three. Now this may be a first ladies and gentlemen that, you know, Dan and my favorite passage bump up against each other, but P.V. notes that there are seven ways virtual agents improve customer service. Here they are: (1) Consistency. It gives the same right answer every time. (2) Uptime. Making service available 24/7. (3) Capacity. You can scale up to serve customers quickly, even during peak service periods. (4) Speed – reduce time spent waiting for a human agent. (5) Productivity – help human agents deliver smarter and better service. (6) Intelligence – generate new insights by analyzing aggregated service interactions, and (7) Channel Independence. Consumers can use voice or text chat and get the same answer from the same bot.

Dan Gingiss (23:21):
Now I admit, a couple of those were new to me and I thought that was a very interesting passage as well because of that list. The one that really stuck out to me was number five, which is productivity, because I think it is so cool to imagine an agent sitting next to, you know, I always think of like IBM’s Watson, right? It went on Jeopardy and beat all the human contestants, right? Because it knows everything. And so I always imagined this agent, this human agent sitting next to a supercomputer that knows the answer to every question that the customer could possibly ask. And it knows everything about that customer because it has entire order history and addresses and phone numbers and children’s names and all this sort of stuff everything’s there. It makes that agent so much smarter. And as, as P.V.vVery well said in the, in the quote that I shared, it allows the human agent to do what they’re good at that I don’t think computers are ever going to be good at, which is to be human, right? Because that is still part of the customer service experience that we want. And so I, I love that concept. And to me, the companies that figure out how to use this technology to make better agents, instead of trying to replace their agents. I think those are the ones that are going to win. Did any of them stick out to you?

Joey Coleman (24:45):
You know, they did. I liked that one, Dan, but I also liked ironically enough, the next one in the list. Number six intelligence…

Dan Gingiss (24:51):
He’s always a step behind ladies and gentlemen.

Joey Coleman (24:54):
It’s story of my life. Just trying to keep up with Dan Gingiss ladies and gentlemen. Well, if we’re not seeking ways to gather the data from our customers, which a lot of businesses are doing, but then turn it into intelligent insights – not just data collection for data collection sake, but rather to drive intelligent insights – we’re missing a huge opportunity to mine, that data, to find the golden customer experience. I really think there’s a tremendous opportunity to incorporate more intelligence into businesses. And I think AI is going to make that a lot easier to do, to do it at scale, to do it more in more cost effective ways and to do it much, much faster.

Dan Gingiss (25:38):
I couldn’t agree more with you, Joey. I think that is also, uh, a great example and I mean, all seven of them are cool. And like I said, got me thinking, but I think we nailed the two if I say so myself. So let’s hear from the age of intent author, P.V. Kannan and let’s have him read his favorite passage.

P.V. Kannan (26:00):
Here’s the question: are you ready for virtual agents? Every company that is considering virtual agents does so far, for two reasons, it provides a better customer experience and it saves money. They’ll make the case effectively. He must generally prove improvements on both fronts, which you emphasize will depend on what’s going on strategically at your company. But regardless of which facet of the decision you focus on you won’t succeed unless you’ve laid the groundwork as a major telecommunications company discovered there are four types of questions you should ask to get that groundwork ready. The first one is economic. Where will you save or money from automating your customer facing processes? The second one is technical. What work will be required to get your technology infrastructure ready to connect to intelligent chatbots? The third one is political. What must you do to win our key executives in the company? And the last one is cultural. What will it take for your company to become comfortable with allowing customers to interact with virtual agents as well as humans to get your company ready for virtual agents, you’ll need to face and work through all four of these challenges.

Dan Gingiss (27:20):
So folks, P.V. Is asking all the right questions and he helps to answer them in the Age of Intent using artificial intelligence to deliver a superior customer experience. I suggest you go out, get the book and read it and learn how you can use this evolving technology to improve the customer experience at your business.

[PARTNERSHIP WITH AVTEX][The Dream Job – Game Show Hosts for Experience Points]
Joey Coleman (27:52):
Dan, this season has been all about games in many ways. Let’s play a little game. You and I, I’m going to name a famous game show you tell me who you think the host was, or maybe you know who the host was. We’ll start off easy though. Wheel of Fortune?

Dan Gingiss (28:07):
Pat Sayjack.

Joey Coleman (28:09):
That’s an easy one. Jeopardy?

Dan Gingiss (28:10):
Aww, rest in peace, Alex Trebek. I actually got to interview him in college. It was amazing.

Joey Coleman (28:16):
So nice. So nice. Yes. Very well known host. Let’s make it a little more difficult. What about Joker’s Wild?

Dan Gingiss (28:21):
One of my favorite game shows as a kid, Jack Barry.

Joey Coleman (28:26):
Wow, nice. I liked Tic-Tac-Toe…

Dan Gingiss (28:29):
And Wink Martindale of course.

Joey Coleman (28:31):
Very nice Price Is Right?

Dan Gingiss (28:33):
Who could forget Bob Barker and yeah, I know there’s a comedian that does it now, but nobody will ever be Bob Barker..H

Joey Coleman (28:40):
Even though after Happy Gilmore, my, my view of Bob Barker kind of changed a little, but that’s okay. What about Card Sharks? We’re going to start bringing out some difficult ones.

Dan Gingiss (28:49):
Uh, I think that was Bob Eubanks.

Dan Gingiss (28:51):
Impressive, uh, $100,000 Dollar Pyramid?

Dan Gingiss (28:54):
Uh, Dick Clark and I think and, uh, pre New Year’s Eve Dick Clark, if I’m…

Joey Coleman (28:59):
Yes, yes. Definitely a classic. What about the Dating Game?

Dan Gingiss (29:03):
Oh, that was Chuck Woolery.

Joey Coleman (29:06):
Who, in many ways, had the best name in game show hosts. How about Family Feud?

Dan Gingiss (29:11):
Also a favorite. I mean, you had to love the, uh, completely un-pc Richard Dawson, but then even, uh, you know, today Steve Harvey hosts it and, and he does, he’s hilarious too.

Joey Coleman (29:25):
Yeah, exactly. Here’s a favorite of mine? How about Who Wants to be a Millionaire?

Dan Gingiss (29:29):
Uh, another, another RIP – Regis Philbin. Uh, one of the best!

Dan Gingiss (29:33):
Yeah, very big Notre Dame fan. I had the chance to meet Regis a number of times. Great. Great. I mean the reality here is, we’ve just revealed something that I’ve known about you for years, Dan, that maybe our listeners didn’t and that’s, if you could have grown up to be anything in the world, other than shortstop for the Chicago Cubs, I think it might’ve been a game show host.

Dan Gingiss (29:57):
Second base, but yeah, you’re right. You’re absolutely right. And my kids will tell you, even if we, if we sorta follow game shows into, you know, what has become, I think a reality TV, I’ve had a man crush on Jeff Probst for a long time and survivor. I’ve never missed an episode. So yeah, I’ve always wanted to be a game show host, which is why I was so excited when Avtex asked us to host their new game show called Experience Points. Now, Experience Points is the most fun that you can have talking about customer experience. Now we have a lot of fun here, absolutely, but you know, we got to put our serious hats on every once in a while so that we…

Joey Coleman (30:40):
We try to act professional!

Dan Gingiss (30:42):
But this is so much fun. We have new episodes each week. We have celebrity contestants that play three different games over a three-week period. And so CX thought leaders actually get to earn cash for their favorite charity as the answer CX questions and share their expertise on how to fuel exceptional experiences for customers. So join your newly-minted game show hosts, Joey Coleman.

Joey Coleman (31:07):
and Dan Gingiss.

Dan Gingiss (31:09):
for experience points brought to you by Avtex your end-to-end CX technology and consulting partner.

Joey Coleman (31:17):
You can find Experience Ppoints at www.experiencepointsgame.com that’s www.ExperiencePointsGame.com or on YouTube at the Avtex channel or on your favorite podcast app, just search Avtex Experience Points. That’s A- V-T-E-X, Avtex Experience Points, and you too can be part of the Experience Points Game Show experience.

[SEGMENT INTRO – CX PRESS]
Joey Coleman (31:46):
There are so many great customer experience articles to read, but who has the time?! We summarize them and offer clear takeaways you can implement starting tomorrow. Enjoy this segment of CX Press, where we read the articles, so you don’t need to!

[CX PRESS][Ecommerce Marketing Study of 1,000 Consumers Shows Drastic Shift]
Dan Gingiss (32:05):
In this week’s CX Press, we’re going to look at a new study by Ignite Visibility, a digital marketing agency based in San Diego, California. Now they surveyed a thousand customers about their holiday shopping habits to find out how they expect to shop this season. So from the e-commerce marketing study, by Ignite Visibility, here are some of their key findings. (1) Most consumers will be shopping and buying on a desktop compared to mobile. That’s 50% to only 15% – a third of customers said both.

Joey Coleman (32:45):
I resonated with this one totally. I know it makes me sound old and anybody who’s a regular listener knows I am the least tech savvy of the two hosts here to experience this. But I’m all about the desktop. When it comes time to shopping and buying, I just find it easier to search, easier to have multiple windows open, easier to do a lot of things. So that one did not surprise me. I was super excited about that.

Dan Gingiss (33:08):
And listeners may also know that I prefer the desktop too, except I am the PC guy. And Joey is the Mac guy. So feel free to write in or call and tell us what you are.

Joey Coleman (33:18):
Yeah, exactly. I love it. I love it. And full disclosure, I’m probably in the category of both. I have purchased some things on mobile. Random question, Dan, what’s the most expensive thing you’ve ever purchased on mobile?

Dan Gingiss (33:30):
Wow.

Joey Coleman (33:31):
Throwing him a little bit of a curve ball here, ladies and gentlemen. I’m not sure… I probably I’ve, I definitely have bought a couple of my pinball machines on eBay. And I mean, that could have been a mobile purchase.

Dan Gingiss (33:43):
Nice. I once had to buy a rather expensive plane ticket – that’s a story for another episode – that was about a, just under $2,000 plane ticket on my phone. That was, I think the most I ever spent on it, but it was like a same day or same day ticket. And it was crazy. But long story short mobile is the future. Just not quite yet. Okay. Number two, consumers were equally open to clicking on an ad in Google or an organic listing in Google for purchasing a product. This is significant as studies in the past have shown strong favoritism for organic listings. So people are getting more comfortable with clicking on those ads, even though it says “ad” right next to it.

Dan Gingiss (34:22):
Yeah. And a lot of people know that. I mean, you, you should be able to tell the difference between the ads and the organic listings. And a lot of people will just breeze right over the ads to get to what they know is kind of Google’s recommendation. But it does look like, and this could be the language in the ads that the people are starting to at least equal that out.

Joey Coleman (34:42):
Well, and I’ll be honest, I like to actually, if I like the brand, I click on their organic listing. And if I don’t like the brand, that I’m like disgruntled that I have to buy there, I click on the ads. Exactly. I’m a little weird that way. I love it. All right. Number three 86%. That’s 86% of consumers need to see an ad two times or more before buying and 31% need to see it six times or more before buying. Now, this resonated with me because as a marketer you’re told over and over again, that people have to see your message more than once in order to respond. But man, six times it just feels like you’re bothering them, but it works.

Joey Coleman (35:26):
It is bothering them. But I will say as somebody who, as you know, really the only social media app I spend time with is Facebook. Maybe this is why I keep getting fed the same ads over and over and over again in Facebook. And I’ll tell ya, I purchased three things. This holiday season that I would not have known about had I not been fed ads in Facebook. So thanks Facebook for listening to me talk and then serving up ads that are about,

Dan Gingiss (35:53):
They know you better than you do.

Joey Coleman (35:54):
They know me better than I know myself. Keep on liking it. All right. Number four, I thought this was an interesting one. And it segues to something we’ve talked about before in the past 55% of people will be shopping more on Amazon this year versus last year. But interestingly enough, that’s kind of not a surprise. We know Amazon’s eating the world is getting bigger and bigger, but what that means is that 45% of respondents actually plan to use Amazon less. Now this is in line with recent trends, such as a rise in consumers, wanting to support small businesses and looking for direct to consumer experiences, three quarters of shoppers say, they’re not afraid to go into stores despite the COVID 19 pandemic. It’s just the other quarter of shoppers who are saying, you know what, everything’s online this year. So yeah, lots of shifting behaviors in 2020 when it comes to online purchases.

Dan Gingiss (36:46):
Yeah, I thought this was really interesting. I mean, there are days where I feel like I could buy absolutely everything I ever needed on Amazon and yet I don’t. And I do think that, uh, that people want to support their local businesses. Even the large chains that are local, they want to support them because heck a large chain is a whole lot better than an empty strip mall. Right? So it’s, uh, it, you know, we do want these stores to stay in our, in our neighborhoods and communities. And so we definitely want to support them as well. And I believe you can be both. I mean, I love Amazon and I shop elsewhere as well.

Joey Coleman (37:19):
A hundred percent. I don’t think you necessarily need to be. I’m a hundred percent old Amazon all day long, or I’m anti Amazon. There’s a giant gray area in the middle. I also think when it comes to shopping in your local community, yes, you may be shopping in a chain store, but the employees that work there live in your town, they live in your neighborhood. So you, you are putting money back into your community based on the wages that those employees are making from working there. So definitely not a clear line here, but some interesting developing trends.

Dan Gingiss (37:52):
Oh, for sure not to mention the taxes that are collected by the company. Number five, customers are shopping and purchasing products much earlier this year. And despite the current economic climate, more than half of consumers plan to spend the same or more this year compared to last year. So folks, basically that means by the time you’re listening to this podcast, you’re already behind the ball and shopping cause most of your friends and family have already got their holiday shopping done.

Joey Coleman (38:21):
So true. I will say this, which I, a mom, hopefully you don’t mind me sharing this story. I was talking to my mom actually earlier today and she said she has never been further ahead in her Christmas shopping then she is this year. And I think part of the reason for that is so many people are home and they’re looking forward to the holidays, even if it’s going to be a socially distance, not hanging out with family holiday, that they’re actually putting more thought and energy into it and coming to the table with their shopping earlier. So it’s playing out that way in the Coleman household for sure. And I imagine it might’ve played out that way in your households to.

Dan Gingiss (39:01):
Indeed. And number six, takeaway from the study was the most important deciding factors in an Amazon purchase are the number of stars and positive reviews followed by delivery time. And I think that is certainly makes sense to me. I mean, I check the reviews of every product and, uh, and not just the stars. I actually like to go and read the reviews of both positive and negative reviews, but it is amazing how much impact that now has in the purchasing decision.

Joey Coleman (39:33):
It really is, especially when you think back to pre-Amazon, or even just five, ten years ago on Amazon, the reviews didn’t play as big a role as they do today. It’s like with each passing year, they play a bigger and bigger role. And so the review strategy for your business is important, but it’s also important for us as consumers. So I totally get it. I mean, I think some key takeaways from this study, Amazon is still the e-commerce powerhouse, but there is plenty of room for other competitors. I mean, Shopify is coming along and making e-commerce solutions for small and medium-sized businesses much easier to use. You don’t have to try to be Amazon. They are who they are and they’re the best at what they do for a reason. You can just be you and create a more personal experience, which is something that Amazon will always struggle to do.

Dan Gingiss (40:27):
Agreed. And especially if you have a bricks and mortar store, because that’s the one thing that, uh, other than the, some of the small stores that we’ve referred to in past episodes, they don’t really have that physical presence that a, that a local store does. Pay attention to how the pandemic affects shopping behaviors this holiday season. because I definitely think that some of those trends are likely to follow in 2021 and as always make things simple and convenient for your customers and they will keep coming back. Happy holidays to all of you, our listeners. We so appreciate you enjoy the season, stay healthy and safe!

[SHOW OUTRO]
Joey Coleman (41:15):
Wow. Thanks for joining us for another episode of Experience This!

Dan Gingiss (41:19):
We know there are tons of podcasts to listen to, magazines and books to read, reality TV to watch. We don’t take for granted that you’ve decided to spend some quality time listening to the two of us.

Joey Coleman (41:28):
We hope you enjoyed our discussions, and if you do, we’d love to hear about it. Come on over to ExperienceThis Show.com and let us know what segments you enjoyed, what new segments you’d like to hear. This show is all about experience and we want you to be part of the Experience This! Show.

Dan Gingiss (41:46):
Thanks again for your time and we’ll see you next week for more…

Joey Coleman (41:50):
Experience.

Dan Gingiss (41:50):
This!

Episode 116 – The Sonic Brand of Your Experience

Join us as we discuss using handwritten notes to create connection, refreshing the sound of your brand, and trying to figure out what happened next when you only know the first half of the story.

Connections, Cues, and Cameras – Oh My!

[CX Press] If You Can’t Touch, Use a Personalized Touchpoint

Things We Mentioned in This Segment:

On This Delta Flight, the Crew Did Something to Remind All of Us of the Importance of Creating Personal Connections – by Jason Aten on Inc.com
• Delta Airlines
• LaGuardia Airport (LGA)

[Dissecting the Experience] Evolving a Sonic Brand

Things We Mentioned in This Segment:

NBC Chimes
• Sports Center Intro
• Disney Intro
• THX Surround Sound Test
BYU’s a cappela group “Vocal Point” sings the THX Sound Cue
• Netflix “Ta-Dum”
• Netflix’s New Cinematic “Ta-Dum” Sound Cue – by Hans Zimmer
• Hans Zimmer

[Crossover Segment] Experience Points – What Happened with Rohit Bhargava

Things We Mentioned in This Segment:

• Experience Points – presented by Avtex
• Rohit Bhargava – innovation and marketing expert, founder of the Non-Obvious Company, and Wall Street Journal best selling author of six business books
• What Happened? – Celebrity Guest Rohit Bhargava – Experience Points
• Fake or Fact?! – Celebrity Guest Rohit Bhargava – Experience Points
• Think Fast! – Celebrity Guest Rohit Bhargava – Experience Points

Host Contact Information

Email Dan: Dan@dangingiss.com

Tweet Dan Gingiss: @DGingiss

Email Joey: JoeyC@JoeyColeman.com

DanGingiss.com

JoeyColeman.com

Subscribe to Experience This on Apple Podcasts

Episode Transcript

Download an unedited transcript of Episode 116 here or read it below:

[SHOW INTRO]
Dan Gingiss (00:05):
Welcome to Experience This!

Joey Coleman (00:08):
Where you’ll find inspiring examples of customer experience, great stories of customer service, and tips on how to make your customers love you even more.

New Speaker (00:17):
Always upbeat and definitely entertaining customer attention, expert, Joey Coleman,

Joey Coleman (00:23):
and social media expert, Dan Gingiss, serve as your hosts for a weekly dose of positive customer experience.

New Speaker (00:30):
So hold on to your headphones… It’s time to Experience This!

[EPISODE 116 INTRO]
Joey Coleman (00:39):
Get ready, for another episode of the Experience This Show!

Dan Gingiss (00:44):
Join us as we discuss: using handwritten notes to create connection, refreshing the sound of your brand, and trying to figure out what happened next, when you only know the first half of the story!

Joey Coleman (00:57):
Connections, cues and cameras. Oh, my!

[SEGMENT INTRO – CX PRESS]
Joey Coleman (01:05):
There are so many great customer experience articles to read, but who has the time! We summarize them and offer clear takeaways you can implement starting tomorrow. Enjoy this segment of CX Press, where we read the articles, so you don’t need to!

[CX PRESS][If You Can’t Touch, Use a Personalized Touchpoint]
Joey Coleman (01:23):
Alright Dan, I have a confession to make…

Dan Gingiss (01:25):
Oh boy, I’m not entirely sure I’m qualified to hear this, but go ahead.

Joey Coleman (01:30):
All right – here’s my confession. It’s been 244 days, nine hours, 11 minutes and 19 – wait, make that 20 seconds – since the last time I was on an airplane!

Dan Gingiss (01:47):
It’s been that long?! That’s a long time Joey!

Joey Coleman (01:52):
It hurts. It hurts…

Dan Gingiss (01:52):
For guys that are used to being on an airplane, you know, sometimes, uh, several times a week, uh, back and forth, it, it really is – it’s a big part of our lives that has just completely disappeared.

Joey Coleman (02:06):
Vanished in 2019, I flew over 160,000 miles on Delta and I, yeah, it’s just it’s I miss it. I miss it. And while I don’t miss all aspects of flying, there are definitely some aspects that I do miss. And as our Experience This listeners know when I fly, as I mentioned earlier, you’ll find me flying Delta,

Dan Gingiss (02:29):
But I do think it’s been 244 days, nine hours, 11 minutes and 20 seconds since you’ve mentioned Delta on this podcast as well!

Joey Coleman (02:37):
It might be, it’s been awhile. It’s been awhile, but, um, that is probably why. And fans know that I’m a huge fan of Delta. That is probably why three people, including my amazing wife Berit, loyal Experience This show listener, Nick Hemmert, and Barry Glassman advisor to the wealthy around the world, sent me a link to the CX Press article. We’re going to talk about today within an hour of it being published. Like, you know, that my brand has been associated with Delta when there is a story that is published and within an hour of it going live, I get it from three completely different people. So let’s talk about the article. You can find a link to this article, which was written by Jason Aten, in the show notes that experienced this show.com or directly on inc com. And the article is titled, “On this Delta flight the crew did something to remind all of us of the importance of creating personal connections.” And this article details, a remarkable experience that Jason had while flying on a Delta flight to New York city and specifically to LaGuardia airport,

Dan Gingiss (03:45):
Because let’s face it folks, you aren’t going to have a great experience at LaGuardia airport!

Joey Coleman (03:51):
Oh, our poor friends at LaGuardia – that hurt!

Dan Gingiss (03:56):
It’s my least favorite airport on the planet. I’m sorry. I’m sorry guys in New York. I know, but no, I just it’s.

Joey Coleman (04:04):
We, we, we all have a challenging airport – Dan’s is LaGuardia. Well, anyway, as the plane was taxing to the gate, after landing a flight attendant came around and delivered handwritten notes to the passengers. Now the note which Jason included a picture of in his article, and again, we’ll link to in our show notes, read as follows:

Joey Coleman (04:26):
“Mr. Jason Aten – I wanted to take a moment to say thank you for flying with us today. Thank you also for being a Silver Medallion with us, it truly is passengers like you that make my job not only great, but also make Delta the airline that it is today. Thank you so very much for your continued loyalty, all my best and safe travels, Gabby bragger.

Dan Gingiss (04:50):
Well, I think this is awesome, but I hate to say my first reaction is this was easy to do because there were probably only four people on the plane!

Joey Coleman (05:00):
Now I will say the article kind of alludes to it. Wasn’t a super heavy packed flight, right? That were less people. But I think that proves the point. If the, if you’re dealing as most businesses are right now in this COVID era with even less customers than you have in the past, are you upping your game? Are you upping the experience? I mean, so many businesses are looking for ways to stand out in the marketplace, to connect with their customers, to get more business out of the clients that they do have. And this is a fantastic example of something that every business can do. It’s low cost, but it’s high ROI. It’s a small commitment of time, but it delivers longterm value. It’s such an easy thing to do, but here’s the reality. So many people who have found the time to listen to this episode of the experience, this podcast will not find the time or rather schedule the time to sit down and write. Thank you note to a customer. And I don’t say that to be critical of our listeners. I say, that’s how low hanging this fruit is and available for you friends. Like all you got to do is write a thank you note.

Dan Gingiss (06:09):
Yeah, I definitely agree. And it is a much under-utilized practice, much like recognizing birthdays, which we’ve talked about before. And I know in a previous episode we talked about one of my favorite brands called PunkPost, which is a terrific way to send thank you notes. If like me, you don’t have all the pretty stationary sitting around and you don’t feel like actually writing it yourself. PunkPost will do it for you. But I definitely think that is a amazing thing to do. And all jokes aside about how many people were on the plane. It is a fantastic practice. And I think it was clearly meaningful to this guy. I’m guessing that the flight attendant didn’t know that he wrote for inc. And we’ve mentioned many times before that we don’t always know if our customers have podcasts or write for anchor Forbes or have their own blogs or have social media followings, but that doesn’t really matter. Ultimately, what we want is for those customers to tell a friend, to tell a colleague, to tell a family member that this happened to them on Delta or on whatever company with whatever company you’re dealing with. And that becomes the elusive word of mouth marketing that, you know, I was a marketer for 20 years, this is the thing all marketers are trying to get is word of mouth marketing. And it comes down not to a funny advertisement or something like that, but something as simple as writing a thank you note.

Joey Coleman (07:37):
So true Dan, and something that folks who don’t regularly fly Delta may not know. There’s that reference in the note. Thank you for being a Silver Medallion, Silver Medallion in the Delta flight loyalty world means you fly 25,000 miles a year. So it’s actually their lowest threshold for being a recognized medallion or kind of loyalty member. So if, if this was going to somebody who flew a hundred thousand miles a year, you could kind of say, Oh, well of course this is their top customer. I’m not saying that Jason, isn’t a great customer and a loyal customer. But what I love about this is it’s a way to connect with people who maybe someday will be at the next level of being a customer. And you can lay a foundation with these personal touch interactions that kind of continue the conversation going forward.

Dan Gingiss (08:29):
So in other words, those Silver Medallions are the people that you diamond people look no, look down on?!

Joey Coleman (08:35):
No, no, no brother, every year I’ve got to work my way through silver, to gold, to platinum and finally land in diamond. Uh, so I to go through silver at the beginning of the year, I tried to go through it quickly. So I get to the next levels, but yeah, it’s all part of it. And I think so often people will ask whether it’s, you know, when I’m doing a virtual keynote or consulting with a client, they’ll say, well, Joey, is it okay if we treat different levels of our customers in different ways? Can we put more praise and more interesting things and more touch points onto our highest paying or our most profitable or most loyal customers? And I always say, yes, you absolutely can. As long as that doesn’t mean you have a pathetic experience for the people who haven’t reached that level.

Dan Gingiss (09:19):
Sure. The base, the base level still has to be good for you to do.

Joey Coleman (09:22):
Exactly. Exactly. So I don’t mind extra gilding for the people who are your most loyal or your most profitable or whatever categorization you might want to give them, but you gotta deliver something to everyone. And as I understand from the story and the article, doesn’t clearly detail this, but it’s written in a way that it makes me believe that everyone on the plane got a handwritten note. And stop and think about those long flights, where, and I say, this respectfully everybody’s been served, everybody’s gotten their food, their snack, their drinks, they’re watching their movie, they’re working on their laptop. They’re doing whatever they’re doing. And I’m describing this in detail because it’s been so long since most of us have been on a flight. I want you to remember what it was like lots of times the flight attendants disappear for 20 minutes, 30 minutes an hour on these long haul flights or they’re there, but it’s kind of getting missed during that downtime. Yes, they could be playing candy crush on their phone, or they could be writing a handwritten note. And this flight attendant happened to take the time to write the handwritten note, which really stood out and led to the article.

Dan Gingiss (10:20):
And look, I think for people listening, this is probably the most important time for you to do this because if you’re not an airline, you’re probably not in front of your customers right now. And, and they’re not in front of you even if they want to be. And so it’s a great time for you to reach out to people, to remind them that you appreciate them when times are down, when the chips are down and when times are good. And these are the customers that are continuing to purchase your products and service even during a pandemic. And I think they deserve special attention or recognition for their continued patronage, even when it might be a little tough.

Joey Coleman (11:01):
100%. I mean, if you can’t have personal touch interactions because we’re not doing actual touching at least have a cool touch point like this. And I think the handwritten thank you. Note is an no-brainer. I mean, when it comes to the investment that it takes you to write a handwritten, thank you note, compared to the impact that has on your relationship with the recipient. I actually can’t think of a single customer touchpoint or experience enhancement that will have a greater return on investment or better outcome for you. I mean, thank you. Notes are increasingly rare in our, on the go transactional. We don’t teach cursive anymore digital world, right? They offer a physical memento of a personal relationship with someone that is all too often relegated to a fleeting text message or an archived, or God forbid even deleted email message. It requires less than minutes of your time, but people keep notes like this around for months or even years. I mean, let me ask this question of you, Dan and everybody who’s listening at home. You can play along too. Do you have in your house a thank you note that somebody wrote to you? Yes or no?

Dan Gingiss (12:09):
I do. Yes.

Joey Coleman (12:10):
Yes. Now let me ask this question, is that, thank you note older than three months old?

Dan Gingiss (12:15):
Yes.

Joey Coleman (12:16):
Yes! So here’s the fascinating thing. You still have the note, you remember who it was from? You’ve read it at least once, if not more. And you kept it.

Speaker 3 (12:26):
Yeah.

Joey Coleman (12:28):
This is a hundred percent unscripted! Tell us about it.

Dan Gingiss (12:30):
Yeah. I have two of them hung up in my office because they inspire me and I read them all the time.

Joey Coleman (12:37):
I love it. I love it. So here’s the thing. We as human beings in, since the beginning of time, but particularly in the middle of this pandemic, we are dying for physical proof that we matter. We are dying for evidence that we have created a connection with someone that we have served, someone that they appreciate our presence on the planet. And a thank you note is a such an easy way to let them know that and people will keep these and they will look back on them and they will remember you. And they will think fondly of you and folks, it’s like, you can do this for less than a $1.50 per customer, like easy for less than a $1.50 per customer. And I’m counting postage, and the note, and the envelope, all in… Everybody should be doing this.

Dan Gingiss (13:21):
So as Jason Apley notes in the article, quote, “[e]very time you interact with a customer, you have an opportunity to reinforce your values and build the relationship. At a time when personal connections are more than a bit strained, every effort you make to reach out to your customers or anyone for that matter is a big deal.”

Joey Coleman (13:41):
Absolutely. So friends, we have a challenge for you. Having recently celebrated Thanksgiving here in the United States and in Canada, and with a nod of appreciation to our listeners outside of the United States and Canada, all of you listening around the world. Thanks so much for your support. Here’s the challenge. Pick one of your customers. And if you’re one of those overachievers, go ahead and pick three, but don’t pick more than three and write them a handwritten note, a physical handwritten note with your hand or a pen, thanking them for sticking with you through 2020, thanking them for their continued patronage. Let them know how excited you are to be serving them now and to continue serving them into the new year and beyond. Write the note and see what happens.

[SEGMENT INTRO – DISSECTING THE EXPERIENCE]
Joey Coleman (14:29):
Sometimes a remarkable experience deserves deeper investigation. We dive into the nitty gritty of customer interactions and dissect how, and why, they happen. Join us while we’re Dissecting the Experience.

[DISSECTING THE EXPERIENCE][Evolving a Sonic Brand]
Joey Coleman (14:47):
Dan, I know you are a huge fan of game shows.

Dan Gingiss (14:52):
I always have been. And I assume we’re going to talk about our new game show, Experience Points?

Joey Coleman (14:59):
Uh, not in this segment. We’re actually going to talk about Experience Points in the next segment, Dan, but for now, I want to give you a chance to play the Experience This version of a little game called, “Name That Tune!”

Dan Gingiss (15:12):
Okay. In all seriousness, and this is unrehearsed, that was one of my favorite game shows. And of all the game shows that have come back that have been resurrected over the years. I cannot figure out why Name That Tune has never come back?

Joey Coleman (15:24):
I know, I know it’s it’s so, especially with the advent of so many more people listening, I mean, let’s, let’s take it back from like the Walkman to the iPod, to Tik TOK today. Like music is such a bigger part of everyone’s life today in many ways than it was even 20 years ago. I agree with you Name That Tune would be an obvious, obvious play, but what I decided, cause I knew and the folks, this is completely unrehearsed. Dan has no idea where this is going because I know you’re a big fan of game shows. And there was a interesting little story. I came across that I wanted to share. I wanted to turn it into a game. So what I’m going to do is much like name that tune. I’m going to play a little audio clip and Dan, you get to guess where it comes from. All right. So here is your…

Dan Gingiss (16:10):
Put me on the spot.

Joey Coleman (16:13):
Here’s your first one.

Dan Gingiss (16:18):
Okay. Not only do I know that that’s NBC, but you know, it was really weird. Joey. I had a sense that that was the first one you were going to show me as soon as you said, here’s the first one. I’m like, it’s going to be done. And uh, I don’t know.

Joey Coleman (16:34):
I love it. It is a very, very famous sound cue. You did a great job of getting it. I love it.

Dan Gingiss (16:42):
Whew, I didn’t miss them all. So now I can relax a little bit.

Joey Coleman (16:45):
Exactly. You can breathe. These are, you got the first one right now. I got to tell you, Dan, of all the sound cues in the game. No pressure. This is the one I think you have the highest likelihood of getting, right? So you already got NBC, right? So you’re doing well. But this one, I really think there is a strong possibility. You’re going to get it right. All right. On your marks. Get set. Go.

Dan Gingiss (17:12):
Yes, definitely! ESPN Sports Center!

Joey Coleman (17:16):
Yes. Sports Center. You are correct. Dan Gingiss ladies and gentlemen to, for, to get it done. He knows. He knows his points. We’re not going for charity just yet. I’m not making a donation. Maybe if you get all five, I’ll do something special for you, Dan. All right. Now this one may be not quite as familiar to you, but I know will be familiar to a lot of our listeners.

Dan Gingiss (17:43):
You’re the dummy Dan? Everyone else will know it.

Joey Coleman (17:45):
No, no. I think you’ll know this one too. There you go. This, this, one’s got a little bit of a buildup. All right, that’s plenty.

Dan Gingiss (18:08):
Yeah. At the beginning I was like, what the heck is that?

Joey Coleman (18:11):
It’s the buildup…

Dan Gingiss (18:11):
I’m going to go with Walt Disney or Disney?

Joey Coleman (18:14):
You are correct. That is the opening theme to all Walt Disney movies. All right. We’ve got another one for you. Dan. Here you go again. This one’s got a little bit of a buildup.

Joey Coleman (18:53):
So it’s been awhile, I imagine. But do you remember where you heard that one?

Dan Gingiss (18:57):
I believe that is, I hope I get the brand right, but is that the Dolby sound surround sound?

Joey Coleman (19:02):
So close? It is THX. You are right. It is okay. It is the sound that they play at the beginning. When you’re at a movie theater.

Dan Gingiss (19:10):
Actually you’ll appreciate this, I once heard an acapella group do that and it was unbelievable because it actually heard in like five different sounds at the same time. And it came out amazingly well saving and I love it.

Joey Coleman (19:25):
We’ll see. We’ll see if we can track that down and put it in the show notes had experienced this show.com. All right. Now this is the last one. Dan, here’s the last sound cue for you? And I will tell you this one in advance. It’s actually quite short. All right. What do you think, Dan?

Dan Gingiss (19:43):
Yeah, I hear this one. I don’t know, like five times a week. I, I think it’s Netflix.

Joey Coleman (19:49):
Yes, sir. You are correct. Ladies and gentlemen, Dan Gingiss game show host-wanna-be extraodinairre, his favorite game show was Named That Tune and you proved it today with this segment, Dan, you got all of them, right? I love it. Now I got to tell you that last sound cue is pretty interesting because millions of people around the world are familiar with the tandem. You can’t log into Netflix, queue up some cartoons for the kids, or sit down to binge, watch a series without hearing that opening sound cue. Now as observed by Netflix product, vice president, Todd Yellin, quote, it’s become the gold standard for sonic brands. It’s immediately recognizable and everyone knows that it means Netflix.

Dan Gingiss (20:40):
Well, I feel like we could do a whole segment on what makes a sonic brand, which is kind of a cool term I haven’t heard before. But what I think is so interesting about this is we’ve touched on multiple different senses in our previous episodes, right? We earlier this season, we talked about the bookstore that is completely dark. And you talked about a restaurant that you went to in the dark and we’ve, uh, w last season we interviewed somebody that works for, uh, a company that produces scents, very memorable scents in hotels and, and other places and

Joey Coleman (21:16):
And we’ve talked about bespoke touch, you know, experiences like, you know, velvet touch, magnetic enclosures on packages and velvet paper for brochures. Yeah. We’ve talked a lot about different ways that senses can be incorporated into the customer experience.

Dan Gingiss (21:31):
Absolutely. And sound, for certain businesses, is absolutely one of those things.

Joey Coleman (21:36):
Absolutely. Now, while sound cues in general are fascinating. Here’s where the Netflix “ta-dum” ran into some challenges. Now, Netflix has grown beyond mailing DVDs to your house, right? They then went to streaming movies to your home, to funding their own movies for theatrical releases. And since 2018, they’ve been releasing original films that they produced and funded in the cinemas. And what happened is Netflix felt that the “ta-dum” sound felt a little too rushed for the cinematic setting.

Dan Gingiss (22:11):
Ooh, it sounds like they needed a little Hollywood boost!

Joey Coleman (22:15):
Exactly! And so according to the fine folks@classicfm.com quote, they needed a movie mood, a symphonic version of the sound to set people up for a longer experience. So what did they do? They hired Hans Zimmer. Some of our listeners may not know Hans Zimmer by name, but I guarantee you’re familiar with the sounds he’s created over the years, including the scores for 150 blockbuster movies like Inception, the entire Pirates of The Caribbean series, Gladiator, the Dark Knight trilogy, and the Lion King. So Zimmer worked to put together an epic new version of “ta-dum”, which I’d love to share with all of you now…

Joey Coleman (23:02):
So it still has the nice “ta-dum” at the end, but it’s a lot more substantial than what we heard.

Dan Gingiss (23:23):
Yeah. It’s interesting. And I I’d be very fascinated to see whether people recognize it as an enhancement to “ta-dum,” or whether they think of it as something completely different. I don’t know. I mean, listening to it, I’m not sure that I can say.

Joey Coleman (23:41):
Yeah, I’m not sure either. And again, we’ll have to see what it’s like in the movie theater when hopefully we can get back to movie theaters soon, but the reality is it’s 16 seconds long. It went from being a two to three seconds long to 16 seconds. I personally think it gives a totally new feel and, you know, the “ta-dum” sound has become really iconic in a short amount of time. And I love that Netflix went to the extra level of saying, you know what, in a theater setting, if we just pop up the Netflix logo and say, we want something a little more, we want to separate the fact that this is Netflix in the cinema, as opposed to Netflix in your home.

Dan Gingiss (24:23):
Yeah. And I think that’s the real reason for doing it is that this is a different product, frankly, that they’re putting out. And ultimately I’m assuming the cinema movies will end up on the streaming services as well. But I think that’s the goal is to differentiate it. And I think that, you know, even that Sports Center theme song that you’ve, uh, that you played has changed over the years and has evolved over the years. And I think that just like we look at our logos, and our colors, and our brand palette, and all that sort of thing, if you have a sound associated with your brand, it’s definitely something that you ultimately want to refresh at some point, you know, we’ve seen, if we stick with movies, you know, you see a company called 20th century Fox that had to grapple with, you know, whether they had to change their name as we entered the 21st century. And, uh, and you, and, and yet sometimes you see throwback. So Disney often leads with that, you know, the old 19, what is the twenties? And so I think you can go both ways. You, you can get that vintage, look if that’s what you’re looking for, or I think, you know, for Netflix, cause to really isn’t the vintage Netflix, so to speak, I do think they’re always looking to be cutting edge. And as the guy said, uh, to be a sonic brand.

Joey Coleman (25:41):
So true. And here’s the thing, listeners, friends, you might be sitting here thinking, all right, guys, what are we supposed to do with this segment? How are we supposed to learn from Netflix’s new symphonic sound cue? Well, here’s a few thoughts. Number one, if you don’t have sound cues in your business, you should consider them in a world where audio is becoming more and more important, whether that’s via voice assistance like Alexa. And I know I just turned her on when I said that or the rising prevalence of podcasts, your brand can and should be thinking more about audio and the sound of your brand. Then maybe you have in the past,

Dan Gingiss (26:20):
I got to interrupt you for a second here. So our listeners may or may not know Joey and I split up the duties of our podcast with not only writing the episodes, but also the kind of behind the scenes thing. And one of the duties that I have is I listened to the episodes before they air. And I am telling you, it would be so easy for me to fast forward through our intro music. I am always humming along with it. And like, you know, speaking on top of the voices because it’s just become, you know, like I get excited when I hear it. And so I, I think that is true of so many things that we don’t even think about how a sound or a jingle or a, or, or some sort of a cue can affect us.

Joey Coleman (27:01):
Yes, absolutely. And let’s be honest again, pull the curtain back a little bit more. We hired a composer to custom compose our music, not only for the show, but for the interstitials between segments and all the segment intros. Ironically enough, my college roommate, Davin Seaman, who’s an amazing musician and composer and keyboard player. We hired him to put something together for us and we’ve intentionally kept the same, you know, general feel to the music. Even as we’ve added new segments from season to season, we always go to him between seasons and we’re like, Hey, we’re going to have two new segment types this season, or we’re going to do this new this season, and he writes new music that fits in the same genre. So there’s regardless of how big or small your brand is, you can make a decision to invest in the sound. The second thing I want to point out is that as your brand develops over time, it’s really important to look at your brand identity elements and make sure they still work well with your current product and service offerings. I was the guy who for many years, spent time designing logos and getting organizations to have a brand style guide. But one of the secrets to a successful brand style guide is that it’s a living, breathing document. And in the same way that Netflix has moved out of the home, into the cinemas, they needed a sonic rebranding. And finally, when you think about how your brand fits with other brands, make sure you’re playing the same type of tune. What I mean by that is a three-second sound. You works for the Netflix login screen in your house – but in a movie theater that THX sound to you that we played earlier in the show is 27 seconds long. You can’t have the standard quote, “are the speakers working” sound to be longer than the sound cue for your feature film? So give it some thought, what’s the sound of your brand and what can you do to get that sound out to your audience?

[SEGMENT INTRO – CROSSOVER SEGMENT – EXPERIENCE POINTS]
Joey Coleman (29:03):
The following is a crossover segment from the new game show that Dan and I have been telling you about – Experience Points – brought to you by our friends at Avtex who also sponsor Experience This, the new game show combines customer experience trivia with lively discussions on how to create remarkable experiences in your business. And along the way, we try to have a lot of fun with our guests contestants. This week, we feature a game called what happened with innovation and marketing expert and all around great guy, Rohit Bhargava, enjoy the segment and see if you can guess what happened

[CROSSOVER SEGMENT – EXPERIENCE POINTS][What Happened with Rohit Bhargava]
Rules Hostess (29:40):
In What Happened?, watch the first half of an experience story. Choose what you think happens next from four possible endings. Answer correctly, for 500 points. If incorrect, you’ll be granted an extra life and the opportunity to answer from the remaining three endings for 250 points,

Joey Coleman (30:01):
Let’s earn some money for Donors Choose, are you ready to get started?

Rohit Bhargava (30:06):
I am ready to get started.

Joey Coleman (30:08):
Let’s do it.

Dan Gingiss (30:09):
All right. This is Nate Brown. He is the Chief Experience Officer of at Officium Labs in Nashville, Tennessee. He’s a CX guy through and through. In fact, he started a group called the CX Innovators and not surprisingly, he had a customer experience story that he wanted to share with us.

Nate Brown (30:28):
Hello there Dan and Joey, Nate Brown here. And I do have an experience for you. I knew quite a bit of photography. And last year I had a lens and a Canon 85 millimeter, 1.2 that I really loved, but I just didn’t need it anymore. It’s an expensive lens. And one that was collecting dust. So I began the process of researching, how can I trade this in and get something that would fit my needs a little bit better, something a little more wide angle and landed, uh, at the site of a major camera retailer based in New York and, and called them up and, uh, got a really nice gentleman there who, uh, offered. Yeah, you could trade that lens in and we’ll be able to get you a new lens. Uh, that is very, very close to what you’re looking for there. Go ahead and send that lens on end my goodness. If I only knew what was about to happen, I would have just kept that darn thing.

Dan Gingiss (31:17):
Okay. So Nate sent his lens into the camera store. What happened next? Is it (a), he receives a new lens along with a handwritten note and a free tripod.

Rohit Bhargava (31:31):
sounds good.

Dan Gingiss (31:32):
(B) he receives a new lens that quickly breaks and then finds out that the lens was a fake. (C) the company keeps his old lens and never sends a new one, or (D) he receives a better lens than he expected. He enters and wins a photography contest with it. What do you think Rohit? What happened to Nate?

Rohit Bhargava (32:03):
I think that he, uh, I’m going to go with C company, keeps the lens and never sends a new one.

Dan Gingiss (32:16):
And tell us why.

Rohit Bhargava (32:18):
Uh, I don’t have much to go on on this one. So this one’s kind of a guess.

Joey Coleman (32:25):
I love the honesty Rohit of a guess – indeed indeed!

Dan Gingiss (32:31):
So what if we told you Rohit that you should guess again, because it isn’t C. So why don’t we use our extra life and choose between A, B and D.

Rohit Bhargava (32:48):
All right. Um, I will go with, I’m going to stay negative on this one and go with B because I chose a lane, you know, so I’m going to stick with the, I think it was a negative experience.

Dan Gingiss (33:09):
Is there anything other than that this company was in New York that makes you think that it would be a negative experience?

Rohit Bhargava (33:15):
Um, no, pretty much the New York thing. It gives it away. I think that was entirely, you know, that was entirely it. I just think that you couldn’t possibly have a good experience going to New York. That must be it. Yeah. That’s it.

Dan Gingiss (33:26):
Sorry to our viewing audience in New York.

Joey Coleman (33:29):
One of the great things about Experience Points ladies and gentlemen, it’s always fun to see the logic and the rationale that our contestants put towards figuring out the game. Rohit – you said B – that Nate received a new lens that quickly broke and then he found out that the lens was a fake. Let’s go back to Nate to see what actually happened.

Nate Brown (33:50):
So conclusion to that story, it was an elaborate manipulation. They did not deliver on the promise that they had made originally had to pay significant money in to get the lens that I had asked for. And finally got the lens after they overcharged me $700 on my credit card had to spend weeks fighting to get my money back, get the lens works for awhile. The lens breaks I call the manufacturer. They, I give them the serial number. It turns out this company had given me a gray market version of the lens that the manufacturer won’t even repair. So now I’m stuck with a broken piece of equipment. I’ve been manipulated. They’ve done nothing to make this right now. It’s, it’s incredible to me. I’ve reported them to the federal trade commission. They’ve been a nightmare for me. I’m going to be a nightmare for them. I hate it. I don’t want it to be this way, but they have certainly earned it.

Dan Gingiss (34:36):
All right,

Rohit Bhargava (34:37):
Victory. You know, those new Yorkers, I got to say, it must be that!

Joey Coleman (34:45):
That extra life paid off row hit. You got it correct. On the second tribe. Wow. What a story, you know, really at the risk of, let’s not bag on New York, right? But let’s talk about the fact that sometimes people can have a preconceived notion about what it’s going to be like to do business with you based on your geographic location, based on what your website looks like, et cetera. Could you talk a little bit about how, you know, a reputation can precede you, uh, depending on, you know, extraneous factors that your prospects, your customers might build into their consideration?

Rohit Bhargava (35:24):
Yeah, I think, well, this part of it’s nothing new. We, we, I think anybody in business knows when you give someone a negative experience, you know, they’re going to have that negative experience and they’re not coming back. I think people underestimate is just how angry people can be and just how vocal they can be about their anger. And you heard it from Nate, uh, where he, he didn’t just say, man, I hate them. I’m never going back. He said, I hate them. And basically I’m going to tell everyone who will possibly listen to me how bad they are. And that’s a viral kind of hate that. We’ve really got to be concerned about anybody in business, because when you screw up and you own up to it and you try and fix it, uh, that person might not come back to you. Okay. But they don’t turn into that vocal hater that tells everyone how crappy you are. They just shut up, which is kind of worth it. If you think about it because not everybody does things perfectly all the time, but to be able to at least get somebody to a point where they can keep their negative experience to themselves is a certain type of victory.

Joey Coleman (36:30):
Absolutely. You know, I think Rohit one of the interesting things is, uh, lots of businesses refer to their negative customer reviews or the people that aren’t interested as detractors. And I think that limits the actual impact. If we think of having, you know, either advocates or detractors, it’s a different conversation than having advocates, detractors, and haters. I agree with you. Nate’s a great guy. He’s a super nice guy. He’s a friend of the show, but you can tell that they went too far and it’s almost like he’s on a mission to kind of bring the dishonesty that he experienced, uh, to bear to the greater public. So people don’t get taken advantage of the same way he did.

Rohit Bhargava (37:13):
Yeah. And you know, I think, I mean, you may have even written about this, like the opposite of love. Isn’t hate it’s indifference. And so like, we don’t usually care until you make us care so much that we actively hate you. And at that point we’re going to do more work. Cause like, look, it’s easier for him to do nothing, right. I mean, he’s not waking up in the morning saying I’d love to devote one hour a day to talking about how much I hate these guys. Like nobody wants to do that, but because his emotion so high, like he’s going to do it whenever he gets a chance to, and appear on a talk show to talk about it. Right.

Dan Gingiss (37:47):
Yeah. And I, one of the things that stands out to me here is, and maybe this is just my values and morals, but I, I can kind of guess that, uh, that you guys share them with me is if you’re gonna choose the path of being dishonest with your customers, you may win that transaction, but you sure as heck are not going to stay in business long and keep customers for a long time. You know, I had, uh, an experience ironically in New York city as well, where I was recording a podcast, probably with Joey, and I had forgotten my microphone. And so I needed to buy a microphone quickly. And so I went to, uh, time square and went into one of those ubiquitous electronic shops. And I found a Sony microphone and it was like a hundred dollars. And it’s just was more than I wanted to spend, but the guy had shown it to me and said, nah it’s too much, I’m okay. And as I was walking out the door, he said, how about 50? And I was like, wow. Okay. So it was right at the a hundred was more than I wanted to spend. I decided at that moment that I was not going to check my phone because I really needed the microphone. So I bought it for 50, got back to my hotel room, looked up the microphone on Amazon $7 and 99 cents. Right. And so I feel like, and then I look at the receipt and stamped on the receipt, no returns. And I’m thinking to myself like, okay, I get it. Maybe you’re preying on tourists or what have you, but this is not a way to run a business, especially today. Whereas you say Rohit, the people have a voice on social media and they’re not afraid to use it when they feel like a company has taken advantage of that.

Rohit Bhargava (39:22):
Yeah, it’s true. It’s true. Um, and I think that people are much more willing to talk about that and feel better when they do.

Joey Coleman (39:30):
You know, I think if we were to roll back the clock in history to when everybody lived in smaller towns or villages, if your product or your service didn’t work, not only did you offend that customer, but because your entire marketplace was just that little town or village, all the other people in the town or village knew about it. And so as a result, I think people try to deliver a better quality product. They tried to be honest with what they were doing and as time went on and cities got bigger and we grew, and we started to have things like Dan’s talking about being a tourist in a city, buying something, companies got to the place where they could take advantage of the fact that there was a bigger world that they could sell to and the likelihood of any one customer really being able to cause them problems was pretty small so they could cut corners and be dishonest. The reality today is though I think with everyone walking around with a phone that has a video camera in it, that they can shoot a testimonial video video, either positive or negative and post it to YouTube or TikToK or LinkedIn, or even the Twitters. Cause I know Dan’s all about the Twitters, uh, you know, wherever you’re posting it, it can go viral and suddenly the entire world knows you’re dishonest. So I think even if we don’t go to the place of morals that you illustrate Dan, which hopefully that’s where the majority of people are. And I imagine, and know all of our great listeners, they’ve Experience Points are, uh, it’s now to the point where you can’t hide anymore, the reality will catch up with you. And boy, if you create haters, they’ve got a lot more power and ability today than at any other time in history.

Dan Gingiss (41:05):
All right, Joey, let’s recap. How did Roe hit do playing? What happened?

Joey Coleman (41:11):
Well in this game, correct answers are worth 500 points. And while Rohit didn’t get it correct on his first try, he used his extra life, any answer to it correctly, which means he earned 250 points. Those points convert into dollars, which means that Rohit earned eight $250 donation to Donors Choose. Congrats, Rohit! Great job!

Rohit Bhargava (41:34):
Thank you.

Dan Gingiss (41:35):
And that concludes this episode of Experience Points. Check out more games with Rohit and our other celebrity contestants at ExperiencePointsGame.com. That site again is ExperiencePointsGame.com. We’ll see you soon for more examples of remarkable customer experiences here at Experience Points presented by Avtex.

Dan Gingiss (42:05):
We hope you enjoyed that sample segment of Experience Points! For more game show episodes, head over to www.ExperiencePointsGame.com or you can visit Avtex’s YouTube channel, or your favorite podcast app. Just search for Experience Points.

[SHOW OUTRO]
Joey Coleman (42:29):
Wow, thanks for joining us for another episode of Experience This!

Dan Gingiss (42:33):
We know there are tons of podcasts to listen, to magazines and books to read, reality TV to watch. We don’t take for granted that you’ve decided to spend some quality time listening to the two of us.

Joey Coleman (42:43):
We hope you enjoyed our discussions, and if you do, we’d love to hear about it. Come on over to ExperienceThisShow.com and let us know what segments you enjoyed, what new segments you’d like to hear. This show is all about experience, and we want you to be part of the Experience This Show!

Dan Gingiss (43:01):
Thanks again for your time, and we’ll see you next week for more…

Joey Coleman (43:04):
Experience.

Dan Gingiss (43:04):
This!

Episode 111 – Take the Mystery Out of CX By Connecting with Your Customers


Join us as we discuss the mysteries of mystery shopping, texting for help, and why channel switching is a good way to anger your customers.

Mysteries, Queries, and Quandaries – Oh My!

[Book Report] The Secret Diary of a Mystery Shopper

Things We Mentioned in This Segment:

• The Secret Diary of a Mystery Shopper by Claire Boscq-Scott
• The Bailiwick of Jersey
• Kevin Peters, former President of Office Depot

[Dissecting the Experience] The Evolving Role of Text Messaging

Things We Mentioned in This Segment:

• Message Me by Joshua March
• Conversocial
Podium
• The Confidante Miami Beach
• Hyatt Hotels
• Slalom Build
• “5 Ways To Stay Ahead of the Competition” – by Podium

[Partnership with Avtex] Playing Experience Points – Fake or Fact?

Things We Mentioned in This Segment:

• Avtex
• Experience Points

[This Just Happened] Don’t Switch Them to a Different Channel

Things We Mentioned in This Segment:

Paycheck Protection Program (PPP)

Host Contact Information

Email Dan: Dan@dangingiss.com

Tweet Dan Gingiss: @DGingiss

Email Joey: JoeyC@JoeyColeman.com

DanGingiss.com

JoeyColeman.com

Subscribe to Experience This on Apple Podcasts

Episode Transcript

Download an unedited transcript of Episode 111 here or read it below:

[SHOW INTRO]
Dan Gingiss (00:05):
Welcome to Experience This!

Joey Coleman (00:08):
Where you’ll find inspiring examples of customer experience, great stories of customer service, and tips on how to make your customers love you even more!

Dan Gingiss (00:18):
Always upbeat, and definitely entertaining customer retention expert, Joey Coleman…

Joey Coleman (00:23):
and social media expert, Dan Gingiss serve as your hosts for a weekly dose of positive customer experience.

Dan Gingiss (00:30):
So hold on to your headphones. It’s time to Experience This!

[EPISODE 111 INTRO]
Dan Gingiss (00:39):
Get ready for another episode of The Experience This Show!

Joey Coleman (00:44):
Join us as we discuss the mysteries of mystery shopping, texting for help, and why channel switching is a good way to anger your customers.

Dan Gingiss (00:55):
Mysteries, Queries, and Quandaries! Oh my!

[SEGMENT INTRO – BOOK REPORT]
Joey Coleman (01:03):
We’re excited to give you an overview of an important book you should know about, as well as share some of our favorite passages as part of our next Book Report.

[THIS JUST HAPPENED][The Secret Diary of a Mystery Shopper]
Dan Gingiss (01:15):
Have you ever been a mystery shopper, Joey?

Joey Coleman (01:18):
Well, Dan, if I tell you that kind of give away the mystery?

Dan Gingiss (01:22):
Ladies and gentlemen, he’s here all episode!

Joey Coleman (01:25):
All right, no – I’m just teasing. Ahh yes, I actually have had the chance to be a mystery shopper in the sense that lots of times when I do consulting projects with clients, I will tell them that the first thing I want to do is come in and be a mystery shopper and experience their brand and experience their space, which always makes showing up for the workshops that I lead then with teams, really interesting. Because I walk in and invariably, some of them are like, “Oh my gosh, he was in the store yesterday. What’s he going to say?” and that kind of thing. So yes, I have been a mystery shopper, but really only is a precursor to consulting engagements.

Dan Gingiss (02:02):
Okay. I got it. Well, the former Mrs. Gingiss and I actually participated in a very extensive mystery shopping program.

Joey Coleman (02:11):
Why am I not surprised that you have a history with an extensive mystery shopping program – I love it!

Dan Gingiss (02:18):
It was awesome.

Joey Coleman (02:19):
Yeah – I mean, it sounds like a Dan Gingiss type activity.

Dan Gingiss (02:22):
It was so much fun. And I think I’m going to convince you, you’re going to want to do it with Berit.

Joey Coleman (02:26):
Alright. Alright!

Dan Gingiss (02:27):
So Let Us Entertain You is a large restaurant group based in Chicago, it’s got more than a hundred restaurants. They’ve also got some restaurants in a bunch of other States, but most of them are in the Chicago area. They’re known for great food, huge dish sizes, you know, servings and really good service. And so we participated in their program, which is highly selective. And you have to go through this big training and all this stuff. And what they do is they send you out to a restaurant and you pay with your own credit card, but you’re reimbursed for the entire meal. They give you some stipulations, but they’re pretty minor. Like they’ll say “don’t order the lobster” or something like that. Pretty much you get, you can order anything you want. They, they pop for a bottle of wine. It’s an, it’s a lovely evening. And the only problem with it is, is that you have to go home afterwards,

Joey Coleman (03:22):
and write a book report!

Dan Gingiss (03:23):
And write a book report! The first time we did this, I’m not making this up, it took us two and a half hours.

Joey Coleman (03:30):
Oh, I totally believe that. Where you’re like, “Oh, this would be a great way to have an experience.” And then you’re like, “Oh my gosh, this was not worth the free meal.

Dan Gingiss (03:39):
Well, the first time I thought that now, eventually we got it down to about 45 minutes. But what they were asking was fascinating. They wanted to know the exact words that the waiter or waitress said when they first arrived at the table, they wanted to know if at any point the food was auctioned, which was explicitly prohibited that’s that’s “Okay, Who has the hamburger? Who has the steak?”

Joey Coleman (04:05):
I understand. I thought you were meaning like who wants to take her $5? Can I get, can I get a 7? I understand what you mean. Oh yeah. So if, if the wait staff didn’t remember who got what and then decided to broadcast it to your table.

Dan Gingiss (04:19):
Correct. They would ask how many times was your water filled? And you know, I was the water person smiling at you there. I mean, the details were so specific. I remember the first couple times they must’ve, you know, cause you also can’t share that you’re a mystery shopper. Right.

Joey Coleman (04:38):
And I’m wondering like, as you’re describing this, I imagine some of our listeners might be wondering too, like, are you taking notes during the meal? But an engine in a pre-social media era that was really difficult now it’s like, Oh, Dan’s tweeting again. Right. But you’re really taking notes on it, oh, we’re at five times they’ve refilled the water.

Dan Gingiss (04:56):
Well, let’s put it this way. It was long enough ago that anyone watching my ex-wife would have thought that she had a bladder problem because she had to visit the bathroom like six times to go take notes, take notes. Because I mean, I think we had phones, but we didn’t, but it wasn’t.

Joey Coleman (05:14):
It wasn’t the way we use phones today. Sure.

Dan Gingiss (05:17):
But in any event, I love this program. We actually got, we got to graduate after we did about 10 restaurants, we got to graduate to like their senior program, which was their fancier restaurants. Only let their, you know, their best reviewers go to their top restaurants. And it was a blast. I learned so much about paying attention and really focusing on what’s going on around you. And this came to fruition late last year I met a former colleague of mine and we were working on a project together for a client and we met at a restaurant. We sat down at the booth and he was asking me to kind of describe what customer experience was and what I was doing. And I said, well, let me give you an example. Did you notice when we sat down at this booth that the wall next to us was dirty, you know, his, his head switched to the left and was like, no, I’m like, that’s the first thing I noticed before we even sat down because I’m trained to just look for that kind of short and this mystery shopper stuff taught me that. And uh, so I was very thankful for the opportunity. Not only because I got a lot of great food and wine, but because I really learned how to pay attention to those details. So I love mystery shopping, which is why I was particularly interested in a brand new book that came out in August called The Secret Diary of a Mystery Shopper by Claire Boscq-Scott. Now Claire is from the Bailiwick of Jersey and I’m going to admit to everybody to look this up, okay? I’m not so good at geography. The Bailiwick of Jersey is a British dependency off the coast of Normandy, France. It’s part of the Channel Islands. It sounds lovely. But anyway, that’s where Claire is from. And she, in her book, she defines kind of why mystery shopping is really important for businesses and how it relates to customer experience. And a couple of things that she noted is she says, you can’t be in your business 24/7. Obviously you can’t be in two or three or 20 places at once. If you have multiple locations, you can’t improve. If you don’t get feedback, you can’t celebrate your successes. If you don’t get feedback, you can’t manage what you don’t measure. And you don’t know if you’re following your business vision. If all you do is sit in your ivory tower and never get out and see how things are actually being done.

Joey Coleman (07:39):
All very good reasons to kind of get out of my speed. I mean, this is kind of the management by walking around theory, right? You’ve got to be on the frontline, you’ve got to have exposure. And the problem, I would imagine that most business owners and managers face is if they go into their store, all their employees know who they are. So you get, of course you get better treatment because quote unquote, the bosses there, right? Whereas if it’s a mystery shopper, you get something closer to retail.

Dan Gingiss (08:08):
True. Although I would say as an asterisk to that Joey that a lot of executives set it up that way on purpose. So yeah, one of the companies I worked for, I won’t say who it was, but it was set up so that whenever the CEO called customer service, it was like, you know, he was calling the bat phone and, and so a little, you know, siren went off and he got a supervisor who took right, who took care of them immediately. So he never got the experience of an actual customer. I had the opportunity to use the bat phone and I said, no, thank you. I’d like to call the 800 number and see what everybody else sees makes sense. So anyway, uh, as usual with a book report, uh, I connected with Claire. She’s a lovely lady. And I asked her to introduce her new book to our audience. So here’s Claire with an overview of her book, The Secret Diary of a Mystery Shopper.

Claire Boscq-Scott (08:59):
Hello, this is Claire Boscq-Scott mystery, shopping and customer service. Global gallery. Yes. I’m here and super excited to be here with you on this podcast and to introduce you to my you Burke. Yes. Hi, exciting. Is this, let me introduce you to The Secret Diary of a Mystery Shopper. This is my new book launched a couple of weeks ago, which has already ranked number one on Amazon bestseller on customer service and The Secret Diary of a Mystery Shopper. If he doesn’t give it to you in the title, it is all about mystery shopping. Yes. How you can uncover hidden secret within your organization. How you can look at your employee performances and really improve your service, develop some new strategies and increase your customer loyalty. So the secret diary of a mystery shopper, it is, um, 11 years now, I’ve been running my own mystery shopping companies and I’ve been writing all those stories, the good, the bad and the exceptional, yes, because if we talk about exceptional, we will bring more exceptional stories in our book. So this is really a business book. It is, you know, for businesses to take it, read it with your team, read the stories, think about how this could affect your business. If you have that kind of experience and look at all the little tips and, you know, th the, uh, the consultancies, I guess also behind every of the stories. So, and I’m sure you’re going to really unsure reading some of those stories. Um, I’ve had people, you know, giving me stories, you know, when you talk about customer service, everybody’s got a story. So I’m looking forward to sharing them with you in the secret diary of a mystery shopper bye for now,

Joey Coleman (10:58):
I gotta admit Dan, I am intrigued. And I particularly liked the way Claire described the good, the bad and the exceptional. You know, I was waiting for her to say the good, the bad and the ugly, which lots of times I think is what people think of when they think of customer experience. I know you and I, when we started the Experience This Show made the conscious decision to tell the positive customer experience stories. And I think all too often, people are quicker to share the ugly customer experience story. So I like that. She’s all about the exceptional to bring more of those exceptional stories to the book so you can model what to do in your business as opposed to learn what not to do.

Dan Gingiss (11:38):
Absolutely. And folks, when you learn what you’re doing right by collecting positive feedback from customers, do more of it. I mean, when they tell you that they like it, that’s a great indication that you should be doing more of it. Just like when customers complain. That’s a pretty good hint that should stop doing something. And I have always said, whenever I get asked on podcasts, or when I’m interviewing, you know, what’s one tip that you can give to people in customer experience. I always give the same tip and it is become your own customer, become a customer of your company. If you don’t do that, there is no way that you can truly understand what it’s like to be a customer. What does that mean? It means get onto your website and create a login and a password, and then forget your password and try to go through the, forget your password.

Joey Coleman (12:24):
And you’ll realize just how insane your process is getting a new password. I really liked that Dan, I worked years ago with a company that was in the home heating oil and propane business, kind of a home services, energy company. And one of the things that really surprised me when we started is how many of their employees were not actually customers. And it actually, by the time we left there, a significant percentage were because we adopted a program where we said, we’re going to help subsidize getting employees to become customers because we wanted them to have that perspective and have that experience, even if they might not have the direct financial impact of the experience, we at least wanted them to go through the setup and the various customer service interactions so that we could hopefully make the business better.

Dan Gingiss (13:13):
Outstanding. It’s so such a great idea. I mean, think about a customer service agent. Who’s trying to help a customer navigate the website, but the agent’s never actually been on the website because…

Joey Coleman (13:23):
Exactly. So what are they doing? They’re reading through a manual or a click through on a web screen saying, Oh, and you should see in the top right corner, a purple box. Well, if they’ve never logged in, they don’t know what they’re seeing. And it does make all the difference.

Dan Gingiss (13:37):
And it can be very frustrating to the person on the other line. Okay. Joey, I think of all of our book reports, this is the best author, favorite passage that we’ve ever had.

Joey Coleman (13:49):
Ooh, pressure ladies and gentlemen tune in for this one. This is going to be interesting. I like it Dan!

Dan Gingiss (13:55):
Here’s Claire reading her favorite passage

Claire Boscq-Scott (13:59):
Can you steal jewelry. Okay. So that was a first, I just received an email from my client, a large jewelers who had finished a big safety and theft training with their stuff and wanted us to go and try to steal something from one of their shops. Wow. Okay. This was taking mystery, shopping into a whole new dimension. As this could have secondary implication. We had to think about this one before. What would happen if I get caught? What if the alarm goes off? What if the police has been called?! What if we get filmed on CCTV camera, you see where I’m coming from. Hmm, but after a good conversation, with my clients and arranging all the possibility, we agreed to perform the visit.

Dan Gingiss (14:59):
Okay. Tell me you don’t want to know the end of that story.

Joey Coleman (15:02):
Oh my gosh. Not only do I want to know the end of this story, but I’m kind of reminded, and this is going to be a little bit of a nostalgia throwback. We’ll see, which of our listeners are old enough to remember this movie years ago? I think this probably would have been maybe late eighties, mid eighties. There was a movie with Robert Redford called Sneakers that was all about like this business that specialized in hacking into other businesses. And I remember watching this thinking, Oh my gosh, this is what I want to do. I now think that I want to go work for Claire on these jewelry cases! Forget the restaurant ones, Claire, if you need help breaking into a bank, or a secure facility or stealing jewelry, call me, I will be your mystery guy.

Dan Gingiss (15:48):
I love it. And, uh, I was actually thinking Ocean’s 11 when I read that one, but yeah. All right. So I have a favorite passage as well. And, uh, you know, I combined two of my favorite things. Joey, I combined restaurants and bathrooms.

Joey Coleman (16:03):
Shocker – our loyal listeners are falling over right now. No friends. It’s more of the same from Dan Gingiss.

Dan Gingiss (16:10):
So here we go with, uh, another story that she tells in her book. Once we had a restaurant group who wanted to get their branches measured, and I was asked to bring my family with me, we arrived at the restaurant and as she loved being a little mystery shopper, I sent my daughter to the toilets to check them out. She was gone a good 10 minutes and as I was about to come and see where she was, she reappeared running back from the toilet and said, mom, mom, mom, you won’t believe what happened. I was on the toilet and the light went off. So I couldn’t see anything. I was a bit scared and eventually managed to open the door. And the light came back on. You can imagine the situation, the toilet lights were activated by a sensor. The door was tall enough to trigger it, but she wasn’t. The lights went off until she managed to open the door. Again. The point is what this group of restaurants did. After this visit, they readjusted all of their toilet sensors. So small people could also be picked up by the sensors. They also took it a step further. Having had this feedback from a six-year-old girl, they revisited their entire young customer experience and suddenly increased their family revenue by 40%.

Joey Coleman (17:22):
Ooh, I like it, Dan. I like it. You know, talk about taking a situation and not only fixing the problem, but using it to springboard into some additional enhancements for our customers as well. You know, we’ve talked about this on the show before, how often businesses miss the associated customers of their customers, right? The significant others, the spouses, the children of their primary customers who happen to be in their location or in their business, or tangentially touched by the business and how there’s an opportunity to enhance things there. I love it. Well, my favorite passage was about, uh, Kevin Peters, the President of Office Depot. And here’s the story from The Secret Diary of a Mystery Shopper.

Joey Coleman (18:09):
I parked and saw an associate leaning up against the brick facade, smoking a cigarette. Meanwhile, customers were walking out without any bags. This employee did nothing. He just watched them leave empty handed. At that point, I had a tough decision to make, should I blow my cover and alert the store manager? Or should I stay silent? I sat in the car a few minutes thinking it over. Finally, I decided I just can’t let this go. I went into the store and looked at the stantion that stands at the front of every location, displaying the name of the manager and his, or her picture. Guess who the store manager was? Yes, the guy smoking outside the store. So I went up to him and introduced myself and we had a good, long talk. He was ashamed of his behavior and he was sweating during the conversation. You promise to do a better job of taking care of customers. And I promised to keep in touch. Even today, we exchange emails every month to discuss his performance.

Dan Gingiss (19:08):
Joey, I’m telling you I want to work for a company someday that has a president like Kevin Peters and that was actually part of a, a larger story where he talked about visiting dozens and dozens and dozens of stores. And I have to tell you, my father, who was a business owner, uh, of, of a formal wear business, did the same thing. He traveled all around the country and visited his stores. And that’s when he learned the most about what was actually going on. You can’t tell this stuff from a report or a spreadsheet, or even frankly, from talking with your employees, you have to go out there and do it yourself. And so great job, Kevin Peters for being your own mystery shopper. I love it. So guys check out The Secret Diary of a Mystery Shopper by Claire Boscq-Scott. It is available on Amazon. I hope you enjoy it as much as we did. And, uh, don’t forget to be a mystery shopper in your own company.

[SEGMENT INTRO – THIS JUST HAPPENED]
Joey Coleman (20:06):
We love telling stories and sharing key insights you can implement, or avoid, based on our experiences. Can you believe that This Just Happened?

[THIS JUST HAPPENED][The Evolving Role of Text Messaging]
Dan Gingiss (20:19):
Joey when you communicate with friends or family members, what’s the most common way that you connect with them?

Joey Coleman (20:28):
I would say at this point in the game, text messaging is the most common. And the way I know that this has really increased, especially in the last few months, is I am currently looking at the little indicator on my screen and I have 19 unread text messages. So my text messaging is almost starting to feel like my inbox for email, but that is definitely the tool I use the most.

Dan Gingiss (20:54):
Well, that would make me break out into hives. I couldn’t possibly let that happen, but I’m glad you said that because that’s how you and I connect to almost always when we’re in between shows where we’re texting all the time, ideas back and forth and questions, et cetera. And so I think that’s true of most people that that texting has become the mode of communication between two people. So there’s a line that I remember from a really great business book called message me. And it was written by a friend of mine, Joshua March, who was also the founder of a social media and messaging service platform called Conversocial. He wrote quote, I tell my family and friends to message me why can’t a brand. Just message me unquote. It seems so simple. Right? So during COVID-19, when customers have been stuck at home, texting has become a much more important communication method for companies, podium, a customer messaging platform for businesses reported that more than 60% of consumers received or exchanged text messages with a local business during the early days of the pandemic. Now I’m sure that number has gone way up since then. Joey, have you experienced texting with businesses during COVID?

Joey Coleman (22:11):
I have. And what’s interesting. I talked about one of these early on, I think, uh, not to pull a Dan, but I think it was back at episode one Oh three, when I talked about the eye doctor experience that we had. But even just in the last episode, we talked about the experience I had with movers and what I didn’t share. I don’t think during that segment is that because of COVID we were texting back and forth and I was actually texting videos of the house. You know, normally when you do a move, somebody from the moving company comes and they walk through the house and you show them all the stuff. Well, because of COVID, I was like, I really don’t want to have random people walking around inside the house if we can do this using technology. And so I would text, all right, I’m here. And we would, you know, I would shoot a little video and text it from that room and then I’d go to the next room and shoot another video. And so I basically just sent them a string of videos so they could do a virtual walkthrough of the house. So yeah, I’ve definitely been using texting more with businesses during this time, and I’ve really appreciated the businesses who’ve been willing to do that. Some are like, Oh, well, we don’t really have the tools set up for that. And I’m like, what do you mean you don’t have a cell phone? I come on. I don’t know what tools you need.

Dan Gingiss (23:26):
Exactly. And I mean, I do it all the time as well. I’ve gotten a lot of notifications for doctors or dentist appointments for me and the kids when my grub hub is about to be dropped off. I get a taxed when it’s time to pick up my groceries or my prescriptions, I get attacks. We talked in a previous episode about imperfect produce. I get every week they tell me when the drivers down the street and when he’s arriving at my house, I think it’s great. And it is, it’s such a great way to keep in contact and to understand what’s going on. So this got me thinking about why more companies aren’t using this simple and effective communication method for servicing their customers. And I remembered a story from right before COVID that I had wanted to tell on the show, and then I kind of passed on it because people stopped traveling, et cetera.

Joey Coleman (24:15):
It might’ve felt a little tone deaf to talk about, but no, I hear ya. I hear ya.

Dan Gingiss (24:20):
You know what? I think it’s relevant again. And so here it is. So I was on vacation in Miami. This was about December-ish. And I stayed at a hotel called the Confidant, which is owned by Hyatt. And when we checked in the receptionist pointed out that if we needed anything at all during our stay, we should text him. Now he said that sometimes there was a whole time on the guest services phone number. And of course the front desk was often helping other guests. But the text line he said was open 24 hours, seven days a week. And it had a response time of only a couple minutes because every hotel employee had access to it. Now, interestingly, during our stay, we forgot about the text line.

Joey Coleman (25:06):
Oh, of course you did, because most hotels don’t have a text line.

Dan Gingiss (25:09):
Exactly. And so we ended up standing in line at the front desk to ask about getting some additional water bottles for our room. And we waited patiently because sure enough, there was a line, there were a couple of people in front of us. And then when we finally got to the front of the line and told the receptionist what we want, and he said, you didn’t have to wait in line. You could have just texted and we would have dropped it off at our, in your room.

Joey Coleman (25:34):
Ah, Got it. So there they are trying to condition you and you know, it’s not like they didn’t tell you when you first checked in, but I do like how you got this reminder that you could save some time by texting. So it’s like, it’s a benefit to you, even though let’s be candid, there’s some business benefits to them to moving these to the texting channel.

Dan Gingiss (25:57):
Of course, of course. And they don’t want to, you know, they don’t want people seeing long lines at the front desk and all that sort of stuff. So I did some research on this because I was really interested in this texting program. Uh, you and I obviously, uh, when we are traveling and speaking, stay at a lot of hotels and this is the first time that I had experienced, uh, being asked to use a text line. So I found out that a company called SlalomBuild was actually the leader of the design and user experience for Hyatt’s mobile app. And what they said on their website was they have a case study about Hyatt. And they said that Hyatt recognizes that travelers. Don’t like to ask for things and they’ll often go without things, if it’s not easy to ask for it. Oh,

Joey Coleman (26:41):
Dan, this is so true. Are plenty of times where I’ve been in a situation in the hotel where I’ve thought, Oh, I wish I had blah, blah, blah, or whatever it may be. And I’ve thought, Oh, do I really want to go downstairs to the front desk? Or do I really want to call the front desk? Or, you know what, nevermind I’ll deal with that. So that’s an interesting that they kind of recognize that traveler behavior.

Dan Gingiss (27:03):
Yes. And folks, when you recognize a pain point in your customer experience, one of the best things you can do is fix it with their app. You know, obviously you could check in and check out, but at any point in the app, you can text the concierge to order room service, to ask for items, to be delivered to your room. If you need more coffee or another pillow or a toothbrush, you forgot your race or whatever. And not only can you request these items, but the app then gives you the delivery status and the timing of the items. Right. And so you don’t have to sit there while the kids are running around or whatever’s going on, or you’re trying to get them to bed and not know when they’re coming. And sometimes it seems like an eternity, right? Oh yeah.

Joey Coleman (27:47):
First of all, number one, I love the idea of digital hospitality. Number two. Yes. The status delivery and timing is huge because I will tell you, there have been many, many a time that we’ve been on the road and my wife and I have realized, Oh, we need, you know, an extra pillow or an extra sheet for the Haida to bed, or we’re going to put the kids on the couch or whatever it may be, and you’ve called down and he asked for it and they’re like, Oh, we’ll send somebody right up. And right up turns into five minutes and then 10 minutes. And then you’re like, Oh, are they coming? Or I don’t want to call them bug them 15 minutes. Oh, finally, I’ll call, Oh, just getting, we forgot about it. Sorry. And meanwhile, the kids are, or at least my kids are jumping off the walls. And it’s like having the ability to check on that delivery status and timing would be very useful,

Dan Gingiss (28:34):
Useful. Absolutely. And so Slalom and Hyatt collaborated on this and they set three different goals for the app. Now, number one was to increase engagement and improve the guest experience from booking through post departure. And we’ve talked a lot about it.

Joey Coleman (28:52):
I like it! you had me at post departure.

Dan Gingiss (28:55):
Exactly. Now number two is to gain a better insight into guests needs and preferences. And then to use that information to continue to enhance future experiences. Then the third goal was to build a flexible, scalable digital platform that enables industry leading features. And so one of the benefits that Hyatt saw from this is not only they did, they have more satisfied guests, but they also had increased bookings. They saw huge increases in mobile booking volume almost immediately after launching this app.

Joey Coleman (29:26):
Ahh, now see, Dan, I’ve got to admit in many ways, this doesn’t surprise me, but I am thrilled to hear that that’s what they saw because it gets back to a point that I made earlier in that often when we’re a hotel, we don’t think of using our personal mobile phone to interact with the hotel. And when you teach me that my phone is a way to communicate with the hotel I E via these text messages. Now I’m going to be comfortable thinking about using my phone for other ways to communicate with the hotel like mobile booking.

Dan Gingiss (29:57):
Exactly. So the takeaway here is that when you focus on improving the experience, especially in the channels of your customer’s choice, those customers will spend more, be more loyal. And they’ll tell their friends and family about you. In this case, Hyatt removed a customer pain point, which is having to ask for things. And they made it incredibly easy via text, which is a channel that they knew their guests were already comfortable with.

Joey Coleman (30:24):
You know, this makes perfect sense, Dan. And it really supports something that I saw from a report from the folks at Podium. The report was called Five Ways to Stay Ahead of the Competition and one of the main benefits of messaging for businesses is that they can be channel agnostic by employing a single messaging platform. So in other words, customer service agents don’t have to learn different messaging platforms like Facebook messenger and WhatsApp and Twitter direct message, which let’s be candid. They should talk to you, not to me, or really care what the customer is using because all of the messages can consolidate into a single agent inbox, which allows you to deliver a much more consistent experience across all your interactions. And let’s be candid. It’s like there’s a new app every week. There’s something new coming out all the time. So if you really want to be thinking and planning for the future, you’ve gotta be ready to handle this.

Dan Gingiss (31:17):
Absolutely. And it’s a great answer to the question I always get, which is which channel should I be in? My answer is always wherever your customers are. Right? Right. So, uh, one more thing that Podium said, which I think is a great thing to leave our listeners with. They said now is the time to start messaging your customers or risk losing them to businesses that do.

[PARTNERSHIP WITH AVTEX][Playing Experience Points – Fake or Fact]
Dan Gingiss (31:47):
So as we’ve been telling you, Joey and I are hosting a brand new game show called Experience Points. We are having so much fun with our celebrity contestants. It’s three different games in every episode. And one of them is called Fake or Fact. Let’s learn how Fake or Fact works

Rules Hostess (32:06):
In Fake or Fact examine three similar experiences. Some are real, some are not. Your task is to determine the fake from the fact. Each experience correctly detected is worth 100 points. Three correct answers will earn you 200 bonus points for a possible school of 500 points.

Joey Coleman (32:28):
Well, I got to tell you, Dan, one of the reasons I loved the concept behind this game is we’ve got some amazing contestants who’ve been there, done that got the t-shirt they know customer experience inside out. And this was kind of a fun way for you and I to play around with them a little bit, right? Tease them a little with some things that might be real or might not be real because let’s be candid when you’ve been in the customer experience game for a while, you come to realize that the horrors of customer experience, or the surprise and delight moments of customer experience, there’s a ton of them and you never really know what’s going to come next.

Dan Gingiss (33:01):
And I’ll tell you in this era of quote unquote fake news, it was a lot of fun to try to create the fake experiences and see if we could get people to think they were real and actually Joey, you and I did a pretty good job of that because we think so. Yeah, it was great. Yeah.

Joey Coleman (33:18):
And I mean, I don’t know if that speaks more to our character or our creativity, but we’ll let the audience decide, but it was super fun to be able to do this. It ends up being a fast paced game. It ends up being a game where you get to see what’s possible. And what I really loved about the games, not only Fake or Fact, but all the games we play unexperienced points is that they’re designed to help us create some teachable moments, to have some conversations with our customer experience, expert contestants, to suss out how companies should be thinking about their own customer experience. So it’s not just an entertaining way to spend a little bit of time, but there are some great takeaways you can apply in your business.

Dan Gingiss (33:59):
Absolutely. And I will say, I mean, Joey and I love recording this podcast Experience This, but I think this is the most fun we’ve ever had recording this game show because it is just so much it’s so entertaining the entire time. If you like this show, you will love Experience Points. So do us a favor, check it out at ExperiencePointsGame.com. That’s ExperiencedPointsGame.com. It’s brought to you by our friends, and sponsors of the Experience This Show as well, Avtex. Check them out at avtex.com. Thank you Avtex for keeping us employed and really allowing us to have a ton of fun!

[SEGMENT INTRO – THIS JUST HAPPENED]
Joey Coleman (34:41):
We love telling stories and sharing key insights you can implement or avoid based on our experiences. Can you believe that This Just Happened?

[THIS JUST HAPPENED][Don’t Switch Them to a Different Channel]
Dan Gingiss (34:54):
So like many small business owners applied for a forgivable business loan through the government paycheck protection program.

Joey Coleman (35:03):
Uh, the dreaded PPP – I’m not sure I’m going to like what’s coming Dan… Remember this is a positive experience program, I just, I know I have a number of friends who worked in kind of the administration of this program on the banking side and talk about some horror stories of just like wanting to do the best to help people out and just not getting good information and directions, especially at the beginning of how to process the applications, how to it, et cetera, et cetera.

Dan Gingiss (35:38):
Well, yes, you’re. And now you’re going to tell most of my story for me, but yes, this is about a bank. It’s not about the government. Joey, I don’t know what your hourly consulting rate is, but I can tell you that given the paltry sum that I actually ended up perceiving after all my castle, I think I pretty much broke even on the whole thing. So as I mentioned it, the Paycheck Protection Program or PPP, as you said, is a forgivable loan and it’s designed to help small businesses stay afloat and keep more people employed during the pandemic. Now it was kind of hastily announced at the beginning of the pandemic, if I could. And it actually took banks by surprise, and many of them were not prepared for what was an onslaught of loan applications. So I chose an online bank that had a great reputation and it was actually one of the first banks to set up an online application for the PPP loans. The process was actually really fast and easy. And so after being conditionally approved, I had to submit some evidential paperwork.

Joey Coleman (36:39):
Ooo that sounds fancy!

Dan Gingiss (36:42):
I use that because I know that we have a recovering attorney on the program.

Joey Coleman (36:45):
Yep – the first step is admitting you have a problem…

Dan Gingiss (36:47):
Evidential. Yeah. So I had to submit like my LLC formation documents and uh, I had to give him some bank information, whatever. And I also had to tell him, by the way, this is the important part, where did I want them to send the money? Right. And so I go through that familiar process, I know all our listeners have done it. You’ve done it before where you set up a new bank account and they, they put like 31, send me a penny. And then yeah. And you have to confirm both. You have to confirm it. Right. So everything went through flawlessly and it all seemed set.

Joey Coleman (37:17):
I’m sensing a punchline, but…

Dan Gingiss (37:20):
Nope, that’s the end of the story. See you next time on Experience This! Now the next time I logged in to check my status, the bank account that I had just set up was missing. Oh, of course. And there was a message asking me to add one. So this was curious since I had obviously already done it. And so I tried to add it again, but I got an error message. So I emailed the bank and I was assured that my account was registered.

Dan Gingiss (37:48):
Everything was fine. And even though the website didn’t show my bank account information, don’t worry. It was there.

Joey Coleman (37:55):
The age old theory of don’t trust what you’re seeing, trust what I’m saying. Oh great! Surprise, surprise!

Dan Gingiss (38:01):
I was a little skeptical, but okay. So a couple of weeks later I was told that I was approved for a PPP loan, but I never saw any deposit come through. So I checked the website again and I get this message. The small business association requires that paycheck protection program loans be dispersed within 20 days of approval. Since we did not receive signed loan documentation from you during this time, we had to spend your loan for the dime being, Oh my goodness. You gotta be kidding me. So yeah. So sitting here waiting for the deposit and then they basically tell me you didn’t get the deposit because you didn’t give us a bank account is essentially what happened. So I emailed them again. And this time I got no answer for over a week. So I decided to call and people, we don’t want to call it’s a last resort. Yeah, exactly younger. Okay. But I called and I got this recorded message. Of course.

Joey Coleman (38:55):
Surprise! Your call is very important to us. We are very overwhelmed right now..

Dan Gingiss (39:03):
Volume, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But what, the thing that annoyed me was is it the message kept telling me that everything I needed to know what’s on the website.

Joey Coleman (39:12):
Of course! Go to the website, go to the website! You’d already been to the website. Of course, of course.

Dan Gingiss (39:19):
So this just made me madder and madder as I’m listening to this thing. And it kept telling me to go to the very website that was not providing any information on why my loan loan had suddenly gone from approved to pending.

Joey Coleman (39:33):
You know, Dan, I think sometimes businesses just, they don’t remember that they’re dealing with customers that aren’t from 50 years ago. Right? I think the average customer today knows well, before you call, check the website, now that doesn’t always happen, but I know you always go to the website. First, most customers are trying to self serve and the best businesses should let them self serve. Let them go to the website and see, and guess what if they call you, it probably means that they couldn’t find the answer easily on your website or it’s not on your website.

Dan Gingiss (40:08):
I mean, if you’re going to tell people to go to the website, make sure the dang website works is all we’re asking for here. So finally, this is the best part. So I’m sitting there on hold like an idiot for five or 10 minutes, whatever it was. And all of a sudden the recorded message says your time in queue has expired. Please call back another time and hung up on me.

Joey Coleman (40:28):
So let me get this right… The hold service decided that it was tired of having you wait, so it kicked you out and have you call back another time.

Dan Gingiss (40:38):
It wasn’t after an hour, it was after five or 10 minutes and I was waiting on hold. So now I can’t get my question answered on the website. I can’t get my question answered on the phone and I’m literally handcuffed. I don’t have any idea what to do.

Joey Coleman (40:51):
You know – and I’m thinking somewhere, someone is being incentivized for hold times. Like someone on the bank is being incentivized for whole time. So they’re like, I’ve got an idea. Let’s kick people out after five minutes because then our longest whole time will be five minutes. Right? Write a brilliant sign, align the incentives here and make sure people do it not to mention. It’s like how absolutely infuriating. It’s like, you know, the person picking up and saying, Oh, let me transfer you. And you’re like, no, no, no. Don’t transfer me, click. And then you’re like, great. Now I’m completely lost and we’ll never speak to a human again.

Dan Gingiss (41:31):
Exactly. So listen, folks, when customers call you, don’t tell them to go to the website. What customers tweet you, don’t tell them to call you rest assured that your customers know the service channels that are available and they’re going to choose the channel they want, which isn’t always going to be the channel that you want. It’s the responsibility of the business to meet its customers where they are. My experience was so frustrating precisely because I tried to self-serve on the website. And then when I needed help, I was told to go to the website. Ugh!

[SHOW OUTRO]
Joey Coleman (42:10):
Wow! Thanks for joining us for another episode of Experience This!

Dan Gingiss (42:15):
We know there are tons of podcasts to listen, to magazines and books to read, reality TV to watch. We don’t take for granted that you’ve decided to spend some quality time listening to the two of us.

Joey Coleman (42:24):
We hope you enjoyed our discussions. And if you do, we’d love to hear about it. Come on over to ExperienceThisShow.com and let us know what segments you enjoyed, what new segments you’d like to hear. This show is all about experience. And we want you to be part of the Experience This Show!

Dan Gingiss (42:43):
Thanks again for your time and we’ll see you next week for more…

Joey Coleman (42:46):
Experience.

Dan Gingiss (42:46):
This!

Episode 110 – Creating Moving Experiences for People Who Are Moving

Join us as we discuss how to conclude a business relationship in a remarkable way, making it easy for your customers to comply with your contracts, and archaic interactions that hamper your success.

Canceling, Filing, and Updating – Oh My!

[Dissecting the Experience] The Xcellent Xfinity Xperience

Things We Mentioned in This Segment:

• Fort Dodge, Iowa
• Comcast – Xfinity
• Charlie Herrin
• Episode 43, Season Two – Saying Goodbye to Customers & Black Belt Movers
• Multi-Factor Authentication
• UPS Store
• Chewy

[Make the Required Remarkable] Thoughtful Design Makes Contract Compliance Easy

Things We Mentioned in This Segment:

Refueling Reminder – Near Gas Gauge
Refueling Reminder – Near Gas Tank

• U-Haul
Joe Maddon – Manager, Chicago Cubs

[Partnership with Avtex] Introducing the Experience Points Game Show!

Things We Mentioned in This Segment:

• Avtex
• Experience Points

[This Just Happened] Don’t Get Caught in Old Ways to Update a New Address

Things We Mentioned in This Segment:

• Magazine Subscriptions
• USPS Address Update

Host Contact Information

Email Dan: Dan@dangingiss.com

Tweet Dan Gingiss: @DGingiss

Email Joey: JoeyC@JoeyColeman.com

DanGingiss.com

JoeyColeman.com

Subscribe to Experience This on Apple Podcasts

Episode Transcript

Download an unedited transcript of Episode 110 here or read it below:

[SHOW INTRO]
Dan Gingiss (00:05):
Welcome to Experience This!

Joey Coleman (00:08):
Where you’ll find inspiring examples of customer experience, great stories of customer service, and tips on how to make your customers love you even more!

Dan Gingiss (00:17):
Always upbeat, and definitely entertaining, customer retention expert Joey Coleman,

Joey Coleman (00:23):
and social media expert Dan Gingiss, serve as your hosts for a weekly dose of positive customer experience.

Dan Gingiss (00:31):
So hold onto your headphones, It’s time to Experience This!

[EPISODE 110 INTRO]
Joey Coleman (00:39):
Get ready for another episode of the Experience This Show!

Dan Gingiss (00:44):
Join us as we discuss how to conclude a business relationship in a remarkable way, making it easy for your customers to comply with your contracts, and archaic interactions that hamper your success.

Joey Coleman (00:59):
Canceling, Filing, and Updating… Oh, My!

[SEGMENT INTRO – DISSECTING THE EXPERIENCE]
Joey Coleman (01:06):
Sometimes a remarkable experience deserves deeper investigation. We dive into the nitty gritty of customer interactions and dissect how, and why, they happen. Join us while we’re Dissecting the Experience.

[DISSECTING THE EXPERIENCE][The Xcellent Xfinity Xperience]
Joey Coleman (01:23):
Dan, in the immortal words of Brittany Spears, “Oops, I did it again.”

Dan Gingiss (01:30):
I am not even sure where to go with this one, Joey.

Joey Coleman (01:33):
Well, let me help you out, brother. I would like to officially announce to our loyal listeners that I am no longer coming to you from the comfort of my home in Boulder, Colorado. I have officially moved to Fort Dodge, Iowa – the small town in northwestern Iowa, where I grew up, which means I am much, much closer to where you live. Dan Gingiss!

Dan Gingiss (01:54):
That’s right. We’re going to be in the same time zone finally for the first time ever, which which makes for easier podcast recording. For sure! I was just wondering, as you were saying that, how many other people in the world have moved from Colorado to Iowa you think?

Joey Coleman (02:11):
You know, it would be fair to say that the majority of people usually are moving from Iowa to Colorado, but in this crazy pandemic time, as people look for ways to reconnect with family and loved ones, I think a lot of people that are finding themselves, or at least I’ve talked to a lot of friends and colleagues who are moving to be closer to family and are kind of reevaluating their schedules and their times and their commitments. And so we thought about it and we thought this would be a great way for our kids to get some more time with grandma and grandpa and with the aunts and uncles and all the cousins that live around here. So we are back in the Heartland. Iowa. ‘Murica! Love it. So good. And I know we’ve talked about the experience of moving in a previous episode.

Dan Gingiss (02:54):
Yeah. That would be Episode 43 back in Season Two, that would be October, 2018.

Joey Coleman (02:58):
Fabulous Dan. Absolutely fabulous. He is the master of our episode history, ladies and gentlemen! But as I was saying at the time we’re recording this, I am surrounded by cardboard boxes, bubble wrap, and moving blankets as we slowly – – make that very slowly but surely unpack in our new location. Now, during the course of our move, Dan, I had a number of interesting interactions as I am wanting to do as I go through life. And I thought that in each segment of this episode, we could speak about a different aspect of the moving process with the goal being, not that you improve your moving business – because most of our listeners are not in the moving business.

Dan Gingiss (03:37):
Except you Steve – thank you for listening!

Joey Coleman (03:41):
We’re so glad to have you hear. But instead to hopefully give people some ideas of things that I experienced in moving that happened in your business, that could be improved. Now, the first one I wanted to talk about is how you offboard a customer. Now I spent a lot of time talking about the importance of onboarding in my book and in my keynotes and in virtual speeches, but how you off-board a customer is also crucial. It’s the last thing, the final thing that they’re going to remember about their experience with you, which is why I want to share a little bit about my experience with Comcast.

Dan Gingiss (04:20):
And next week, ladies and gentlemen, after he’s done onboarding and offboarding, he’s going to talk about waterboarding. No, never!

Joey Coleman (04:29):
Well, let’s be candid and Dan full disclosure, Dan and I have spent some time with the fine folks at Comcast Comcast reputation for their experience. Let’s say five years ago, certainly 10 years ago. Is that very different world than the experience of dealing with Comcast today?

Dan Gingiss (04:47):
I actually, I actually heard, I don’t know if this is true, but I actually heard that that was one of the reasons for the name change to Xfinity – it was literally to walk away from the brand name because of the reputation it had developed. But as you and I both know that reputation has changed quite a bit over the last few years, it’s changed

Joey Coleman (05:04):
Dramatically. And part of the reason for that is the incredible work that the team at Comcast has done under the leadership of Charlie Heren and really looking at what has been a multi more than a billion dollars invested into customer experience enhancements. And I had the pleasure of even though cable companies are historically known for their lack of customer experience. I had the opportunity to have a remarkable experience, allow me to explain. So we’re getting ready to move and I need to cancel my home cable and internet service, which is provided by the folks at Xfinity Comcast. So I go online to see if I can do this and I’m chatting and pretty quickly they say for a cancellation, we want to talk to you, enter your phone number and we’ll give you a call. So I do, they call me immediately, which is awesome because I’m like, Ooh, LivePerson, non chat, we’re going to get this sorted out. And their goal, obviously when they first called me was to identify my account. And while they’re trying to pull that up based on my name and my address, the representative that I’m speaking to is making small talk about Colorado, right? I’m in Colorado. I have to give him my address. It identifies as being in Colorado. He’s asking if the wildfires are close to our house and showing a lot of empathy and connection interests, kind of easy rapport banter while they’re looking at my account, which I really appreciate. And it’s kind of easing into the conversation in a nice way. They then asked for the account number. Now I have to admit when they did this, Dan there, I actually said is I often do in these scenarios, if you were to offer me a million dollars to tell you my account number, you would get to keep your million dollars because most companies assign this account numbers that we don’t remember. How are we supposed to remember? It’s an arbitrary number to your customer. Sure. It might have some meaning to you, but it has zero meaning to me. And usually the only way that you have an account number easily at your fingertips is if you are holding an invoice or you have an invoice called up on your screen, which I didn’t. But this is where it got interesting. He actually said is the phone number on the account, a cell phone? And I said, yes, it is. He said, can you confirm the number? And I gave him my cell phone number. He said, I would like to send you a text message to confirm your identity. If you have your cell phone, I was blown away because I was like, Oh, this is super easy. You’re going to know it’s me because you’re going to send the text and I’m going to text back and we’re going to be good to go. And don’t, you know, it that’s what happened.

Dan Gingiss (07:44):
I like it. I like it. I mean, that’s a pretty simple and they’ve now identified you. So what happened next?

Joey Coleman (07:50):
Well, and what I also liked about this, and I don’t know about you, have you ever experienced that? I’ve never experienced proving my identity via text message on a cell phone. Like this was a new technology solution for me. So we’re two minutes into this call and I’m feeling pretty darn good about my relationship with the folks that I’m canceling my relationship with. Wait, hold on. I’m pretty good about it.

Dan Gingiss (08:11):
I got to interrupt here. So you’ve never done two factor authentication?

Joey Coleman (08:15):
I’ve done two factor authentication, but I’ve never done two factor authentication with a person on the phone saying, I’m going to send you this text message I get, I guess maybe I have, but I just, I never, I never thought of it this way. I’ve done it more for like logging in to get a password where they say, Oh, we’re going to send you this thing. And you have to read the number back to us. It’s always been an automated experience I’ve never had

Dan Gingiss (08:40):
Because it’s kind of the cross-channel thing. You’re on live run. And they’re confirming you by text. Exactly, exactly.

Joey Coleman (08:46):
Not such a Luddite that I am not familiar with the concept of two factor authentication, but you are correct. This is the first time I’ve ever had a human lead into that. So that kind of caught me off guard. The representative then confirms the subscriptions that I have is like, you have cable and you have internet and you have a router and you have a cable box and kind of confirmed all my equipment and then asked which almost every customer service person who has been trained to process a cancellation requests ask, why are you canceling? And I explained that I was moving from Colorado to Iowa. I think he might’ve made a remark similar to the one you did. Oh, you’re the first person I’ve ever talked to him in the history of the world. That’s moved from Colorado to Iowa. And he actually went so far as to say, and I see we don’t actually have any service in the place in Iowa.

Joey Coleman (09:35):
You’re moving to, cause I said the name of the town I was moving to and I thought, wow, this guy is doing like on the fly research. And I knew that Comcast was not a provider in the local community I’ve live in now. Uh, but the fact that he did that I thought was really interesting. Any, he basically apologized for it and I don’t want to say gave an excuse, but he was kinda like, you know, it’s just not a marketplace that we’ve really expanded into yet. And I’m sorry, we’re not going to be able to serve you anymore. So suddenly I’m canceling my service and I almost am starting to feel a little guilty about the fact that I’m canceling my service because I’m really enjoying the relationship that we’re having in the conversation we’re having. He then offered some options for the final payment.

Joey Coleman (10:19):
And this is where once again, the representative saw things from my perspective, I had previously been set up on autopay and he said, look, we can keep you on auto pay and that’s fine. But we find that sometimes when customers do that, they forget to cancel the autopay and there might be a payment that gets made that shouldn’t get made. And even though we’re going to cancel it, here’s what I’d like to recommend you do. Let’s take you off of auto-pay and send you your final bill as a prorated paper bill to your new, uh, address. And then you can log on and pay it online or just go through our portal and do that. But that way we don’t have any type of unnecessary charges on your account.

Dan Gingiss (11:03):
I like that he is thinking ahead and I think really helping you through the process, kind of making sure that nothing slips through the cracks. Now, granted, they want to make sure you pay them too, because you’re moving out of state. They don’t know where you’re going anymore. They may not be able to chase you down. But I think it’s a great example of understanding that moving is stressful. And that, that, you know, one thing you may forget to do is pay your last bill. And so he’s making it easier for you.

Joey Coleman (11:28):
Yeah, I loved it and it, and it felt like it was really looking out for me. And speaking of looking out for me now, we get to the part of canceling your cable and internet subscription that drives most people crazy. You have to get the gear back to them, right? You have to either mail it back. And now you’re trying to make a trip to the post office or you’re waiting for them to sell it, send you, you know, a box with the postage on it, or you’ve got to take it to some location. He says to me, here’s the thing. There are a number of X affinity stores in your town that you could take this to, or by the way, you could take it to any ups store and just drop it off and they’ll box it and package it up and mail it back to us.

Joey Coleman (12:11):
Oh, and by the way, you can do this anytime in the next 30 days. So if it’s easier for you with your move to box this stuff up, take it to Iowa and then take it to the ups store. That’s totally cool with us. Not a problem. Now we’ve talked about in previous episodes, this idea of, you know, kind of the benefit of being able to take things into the ups store and have a mailed back. And the fact, I forget what the, you might remember Dan, the phrase, you know, the it’s not frustration free packaging, that’s the other one, but the like, you don’t need to provide the packaging service, but I didn’t know that Comcast Xfinity had this relationship with ups and it felt really customer centric.

Dan Gingiss (12:51):
Yeah. And I like this because it actually reminds me of another company that we’ve talked about a couple of times on the show, which is chewy. And if you’ll remember the first time we talked about them, it was specifically of my friend, Mike and, uh, and his cat had just died. And, and the treatment that he got with the flowers and all the condolence card and all that for a customer that was literally out the door. And it sounds like Comcast kind of treated you the same way in the sense that they know they’re losing you as a customer. They know there’s nothing they can do about it, but they’re still helping you out, taking the time to make it as easy as possible. And they’re basically trying to leave you with a really positive impression.

Joey Coleman (13:37):
Absolutely. Which brings me to the final thing that the representative said, he made sure I understood everything. I didn’t have any more questions. And he concluded the conversation by saying, if we ever end up offering service in Iowa, we would love the opportunity to earn your business again. And the way that he ended the conversation on this final thought of, Hey, I know we’re not a good fit, but there’s kind of an almost subtle implication that if we were a good fit and we were there, we’d be a good choice for you. But by the way, we recognize that we’re not going to be presumptuous, that you would just continue with us. We hope we get the chance to earn your business again. I got to tell you, I hung up that call and I thought, I want to do business with them again. I hope they expand to Iowa so I can become a customer again, because the off-boarding experience was such a delight.

Dan Gingiss (14:34):
And that’s amazing. And so many companies can learn from that because one customer lost does not necessarily mean that they’re lost forever and they may come back. They may tell others about the experience and help you gain new customers. And so

Joey Coleman (14:52):
That customer that you think you’re losing, if you sort of broaden your perspective a little bit and realize that that too is a person that could help your business grow down the road, it’s worth investing at little extra time to be civil, to be nice, and to leave them with a good taste in their mouth. Absolutely. And to not take it personally, that you’ve lost the customer. I mean, here’s the deal. We lose customers all day, every day in our businesses due to no fault of our business, Comcast didn’t lose me because they did something wrong. They didn’t lose me because my internet was dropping. They didn’t lose me because the cable didn’t work while it was watching a Notre Dame game, they lost me because I moved to another place that they don’t serve. So it wasn’t that something was wrong. It was that something wasn’t available. And I think all too often, when a customer leaves businesses, whether that’s the organization as a whole culturally or individual reps kind of take it as a personal affront or they’re so focused on retaining the business that they go into sales mode of, well, what if we gave you a better package or a better deal? And the folks at Comcast realized very early on in the process, they can’t serve me in the place I’m going. And as a result were okay, sending me off in a pot,

[SEGMENT INTRO – MAKE THE REQUIRED REMARKABLE]
Joey Coleman (16:17):
Just because you have required elements of your business doesn’t mean they need to be, or it’s time to get creative, have some fun and make people sit up and take, notice, get your customers talking when you make the required remarkable.

[MAKE THE REQUIRED REMARKABLE][Thoughtful Design Makes Contract Compliance Easy]
Joey Coleman (16:36):
So I have to ask, did you hire movers or did you do the big Colorado to Iowa move yourself? Well, Dan, uh, you know, the answer to be candid is a little bit of both. I have reached a certain point in my life where I feel very fortunate that we can hire movers because I’m not super excited about lifting boxes and moving. And man, I love my two boys. I’ve got a four year old and a seven year old as you know, but it’s like adding kids added more stuff than I thought it was going bad and I’m not just blaming it on them. I got plenty of stuff myself. I mean, we at our, at our account with our mover, we were at North of 8,000 books. I mean, we’re literally moving a library at that point, but moral of the story, we had movers, but through a weird confluence of events, we also ended up with a U haul and I’ll save that story for another day.

Joey Coleman (17:25):
Cause it is a sorted tale indeed. But the moral of this story is I had an interesting experience with you hall. See, anytime you rent a U haul, you need to return it with the same fuel level as before. So unlike renting a car where you have to return it full with the U haul because it’s a big truck and it has a big guest tank, you have to return it back to the same fuel level. Now this is a contractual requirement, but the challenge is most people have never driven a large U haul truck and they don’t know how much gas to put in the tank to get it back to the required level. Yeah.

Dan Gingiss (18:04):
I mean, that is hard to estimate. I’ve had that happen every once in a while, even with a rental car where they give it to you and they’re like, well, it’s between three quarters and one half. And I’m like, okay, well, I’ll try to get it between those two on the way home

Joey Coleman (18:16):
Have you. And you hope that the person checking it in remembers what the person who checking it out, who usually with, at a different location, totally different person. When they say like, it’s kind of between this and this, just get it generally. And I’m like, do they ever go back and charge people? Like I presume they do, if you are way off, but I don’t know about you. There’ve been more than one time when I’ve been returning a car and I’ve been like, Oh my gosh, I got to forget. And like spin back around in the airport and go back to the nearest gas station to fill it with gas. But you call has a different approach to this, right? They’re requiring you not to return it full, but to the same level. And they have a solution to the problem when they print out your contract, it shows a gas gauge so that you can see not only how much gas was in it when you rented it, but all the little gradation markings on the gauge show you how many gallons of gas you’ll need to put into the tank in order to return it to the proper level.

Joey Coleman (19:17):
This was so cool. I had never seen anything even remotely close to this, right? So to me to make sure we explain it, and there are visuals over at our website in the show notes, right? For experience this show.com where you can actually see pictures of the contract and the gauge, but what they do is, so let’s say I rented it at three quarters of a tank, they’ll say to you, well, if you’re down to one quarter of a tank, put in 20 gallons and that gets you back to where you may be and it’s, what’s absolutely fantastic. But as if that wasn’t enough, there are stickers on the gas tank and on the gas gauge, reminding you look at your contract for specific information on how many gallons are needed when you refill. So at every turn you hold is working to make sure you know exactly how much gas you need to put back in the tank, which helps them to make sure their trucks come back properly filled. But it also helped me the customer as I was guided to put the right amount of gas in. So I didn’t have an underfilling situation where I would violate their contract and be charged more or an overfilling situation where I would spend more on gas than I needed to spend. You know,

Dan Gingiss (20:30):
I have quoted the great Sage, former Chicago Cubs manager, Joe Madden, multiple times on this podcast and his favorite or my favorite of his sayings is do simple, better, because I think not only does it apply to baseball, but it applies to business. And this is such a great of doing

Joey Coleman (20:48):
Simple, better. This is such a simple solution to a problem. That, again, isn’t just on new halls and trucks, which I agree is going to be tougher for a car driver to estimate, because if you’re not used to driving a truck, you have no idea how many gallons to put in, but that is a real problem. Even with rental cars, because you know, when the last guy doesn’t return it full, oftentimes they don’t go fill it up for you. They just deliver it to the next person with three quarters of a tank or whatever it is. And I love the elegance and simplicity of the solution. And you’re talking about stickers and printed gradations. I mean, this cost almost nothing to do, and yet it completely changes the experience and makes it easier for the customer. Absolutely. And I, and I’ll take it one step further.

Joey Coleman (21:34):
Dan, we’ve got this scenario where the last experience you have when you rent a car, you rent a, you haul is you go put the gas in it and drop it back off. So it’s in that off-boarding period that we talked about in the last segment with Comcast. So if the last experience I have is I put a bunch of gas in and then as I’m driving to the U hall, I see that I overfilled. I’m irritated. If I see I underfilled, I’m freaking out that I’m going to get charged later. And invariably you’re charged like $19 a gallon, right? They I’m waiting for the car rental company or the truck rental company that comes along and says, Hey, return it with whatever. And we’re going to charge you the prevailing street rate to get it back to normal. Not this fall, we’re going to charge you a whole tank, which is what most rental car companies do. Or the penalty of we’re going to charge you five times the going street rate for a gallon of gas. No, we’re just going to do the right thing and, and fill it back up so you don’t have to worry. But until that happens, you hall has a great solution.

[PARTNERSHIP WITH AVTEX][Introducing The Experience Points Game Show]
Joey Coleman (22:47):
We’ve talked about it every weekend. Now it is here. In fact, you probably already saw it, but if you didn’t, you want to get over to experience points, game.com. That’s ExperiencePointsGame.com to see our newest show. There are laughs. There are tears. There’s prizes to be won. Ladies and gentlemen, don’t miss the remarkable experiences and the celebrity contestants we have at experience points, game, check out the trailer. Now

Multiple Voices (23:11):
I’m going to say, I call it a moment of magic. My mom is an English teacher. I’ve written six books. I’m like, no, can’t do it. We’ll celebrate it over and over again on the way we need them to feel. If I take care of my team, they’ll take care of the customer. What the B to B companies report is the number one challenge to customer experience. That was so hard. That’s the difference? The analogy worked, the speech did not. And they said, that’s a lot of tacos. Show me the money. Let’s lose some. This is so cool. And I’m learning so much. It’s I think that’s powerful to say our customers are expecting more than ever before. I am still ready. There is no way is no way. I’m going to guess. 44%. Yeah, you did a hundred dollars per Dan Gingiss.

[SEGMENT INTRO – THIS JUST HAPPENED]
Joey Coleman (24:07):
We love telling stories, and sharing key insights you can implement or avoid based on our experiences. Can you believe that This Just Happened?

[THIS JUST HAPPENED][Don’t Get Caught in Old Ways to Update a New Address]
Joey Coleman (24:20):
Alright, Dan, we’re bringing it home. No pun intended. That’s it? You know, what can you say? We’re reaching the end of the episode. I want to talk about something that should be so easy to do. And with one of the experiences I had, so I had, it was and yet so easy to mess up. And that was the other experience. So this is a little compare and contrast about something that happened with me, updating my magazine subscriptions. Now I have a number of small addictions. I’m addicted to books. I’m addicted to travel. I’m addicted to art. And yes, it’s a little weird, but I’ve got a touch of a magazine addiction. Now I’ve tampered that down over the years where I used to subscribe. I’m not making this up to 30 magazines, which meant I had to read a magazine cover to cover every day, just to stay on top of the magazines. I’m now down to about 10, maybe 12. So it’s still a lot of magazines. And because I was moving, I needed to update the mailing address on my magazines. Now, anybody who’s listening, who’s ever done this. Usually what happens is you call up the subscription phone number in the magazine and you tell them your subscriber number and they update your mailing address. But I figured since it’s 2020, there must be a better way to do this. So the first experience I had, I went online. I was able to go to the main website for the magazine. I was able to click on a button in the navigation, down in the footer nav that said change, mailing address. I was like, Oh my gosh, thank you. Thank you, website designers who made the navigation easy to understand. I clicked on it. I entered my name and my address and my zip code. It confirmed based on that. It didn’t need me to confirm the subscription number, which I so appreciated. Cause I didn’t have the magazine in front of me, even though I subscribed to the magazine and I was able to put in my new address and it said, and here’s the punchline folks. Your subscription will be updated with the next issue that mails next month I thought this is fantastic. And then I had a different experience. It was like, wait.

Joey Coleman (26:29):
Yeah. So I thought, well, this was so easy. Why don’t I go to one of my other magazines websites and see if I can do the same thing. So I click on it, the website and I’m navigating around and there’s nothing that says, update your mailing. And I’m looking on, I’m looking and I’m digging and I’m into contact us and there’s no phone number. There’s just an email. And it’s like, we promise to be back to you within 72 hours. And I’m like, what are you kidding me? And I’m going around. And I can’t find anything. I can’t find anything. And finally I find a phone number and I’m like, great. So I called the phone number and here’s what happened. I explained that I had a subscription. They asked me for my subscriber number. I could not tell them. And what ensued was a 20 minute process for them to be able to try to identify my subscription without my subscriber number. Even though my name is Joey Coleman, which is not an entirely uncommon name, but in it not an entirely unique name, fair enough. And when they finally found it and here’s where it got really exciting friends, they couldn’t update my address. What I had to do is cancel that subscription and resubscribe using the new ad.

Dan Gingiss (27:42):
Uh – I mean, for reals?

Joey Coleman (27:45):
Right? This is a true story. Now here’s the crazy thing about this. I fully acknowledge that that is a first world problem. I fully acknowledge that, you know, no small fluffy animals were harmed in the creation of this customer disaster story, right? It’s not a huge thing, but it proves the point that we talk about on this show all the time, which is the little things matter. And when they actually explained to me that I needed to cancel the subscription and then call a different number to resubscribe and give my credit card over the phone,

Dan Gingiss (28:23):
Let me guess. Can I get, you can guess what do you think happened? I’m going to go ahead and guess that you canceled the subscription and didn’t call the other number!

Joey Coleman (28:32):
And you are correct. My friend and I won’t call that number again because I am not excited to support a business that has such an archaic, ridiculous way of handling things. I mean, if you are in the magazine business, you have to know that people move. And I even am accepting of the fact that some of the magazines that I changed, the address on, I had one tell me that my magazine will start to be delivered to my new address in three months. So for the next two months, the magazine is going to go to the old address and then be forwarded through the post office to the new address on, by the way, guess who pays for that? Oh, that would be the magazine because they can’t change the printing of their labels. Then I actually asked the person, why is it that it’s going to take three months? And they said, well, we batch print our labels quarterly. And I’m like, how much money are you saving by batch printing that you’re losing with all of the people who change address.

Dan Gingiss (29:30):
So first of all, I want to back up a couple sentences. If you’re in the magazine business, I’m really sorry. Well dig. I mean, yeah, fair enough. You’re probably losing every day. And so, uh, you know, I like to talk about the leaky bucket. Uh, it’s time to plug that bucket with the people that actually do want to stay. You should make it a tiny bit more easy for them to do that. But also I talked about in the previous segment about doing simple, better, and changing an address is simple. It is something that we now all expect to be able to do digitally. We shouldn’t have to talk to anybody. We should just be able to put it in the website and say, here’s my old address. Here’s my new address. And now we’re done. And if you want to make it difficult on people, you want to make it hard to change the address you want to make it so they’re going to lose two months of, you’re never going to see those two months of, uh, of magazines because the postal service doesn’t forward magazines, the only forward for a first class mail. So those magazines are going to be out in the abyss. You’re still going to pay for them. If you want to annoy your customers, then keep doing it the way that you’ve been doing it since 1950, when magazines weren’t in their heyday. But if you’re in really any industry, but especially one that is getting swallowed up whole right now, you got to do a better job focusing on keeping each and every one of your customers.

Joey Coleman (30:54):
Well Dan, I’ll take it one step further. If you ever have a scenario in your business that requires you to quote unquote, delete or erase or cancel an existing relationship with a customer and hope that they will re-trigger a new relationship with you immediately following that cancellation, stop it, stop doing that. And this sounds obvious, and it sounds like stuff. And I’m sure there’s some listeners going, Oh my gosh, this is bizarre. This is ridiculous. I can’t even believe this is happening in 2020. I can’t even believe that this is the reality of any business. I guarantee that a significant percentage of our listeners work in businesses or industries, where there are ridiculous little things that are happening just like this, that for some reason, we’ve made it hard to do. It’s hard to get a printed invoice or it’s hard to get an address change, or it’s hard to get on the phone with someone, or it’s hard to get, you know, proof of a purchase after the fact, you know, get a reprinted receipt or something like that. There are tons of things in your business that for whatever reason, you’ve made it difficult for your customers to do. And this is why such a, I’m such a big fan of the customer journey. Audit might be the only time you ever hear Dan, or I say, we’re a fan of an audit, but the reality is we get so insulated in our business and our operations that we lose track of the crazy hurdles we’re asking our customers.

Dan Gingiss (32:30):
Yeah, I totally agree. And the more hurdles we put in front of customers, the more likely that they’re going to trip over one of them. And when they that’s the time where they’re going to start reevaluating their relationship with you just as you did with the magazine that is going to make you call two different numbers, you reevaluated your relationship pretty quickly. I would imagine and decided that your relationship wasn’t worth it anymore. And you know, again, this is 2020. These are things that are expected to be in digital format that are easy without having to talk to somebody. And it’s not just millennials that want, that is every single generation that is willing to go online and do these things quickly now. And if you’re not there, you got to get there soon.

[SHOW OUTRO]
Joey Coleman (33:19):
Wow. Thanks for joining us for another episode of Experience This!

Dan Gingiss (33:23):
We know there are tons of podcasts to listen to, magazines and books to read, reality TV to watch. We don’t take for granted that you’ve decided to spend some quality time listening to the two of us.

Joey Coleman (33:33):
We hope you enjoyed our discussions and if you do, we’d love to hear about it! Come on over to ExperienceThis Show.com and let us know what segments you enjoyed, what new segments you’d like to hear. This show is all about experience, and we want you to be part of the Experience This Show!

Dan Gingiss (33:51):
Thanks again for your time. And we’ll see you next week for more…

Joey Coleman (33:54):
Experience.

Dan Gingiss (33:54):
This!

Episode 108 – From Analog to Augmented – Creating Experiences Everywhere

Join us as we discuss the frustrating process of trying to pay your health insurance premiums, the boundaryless world of augmented reality, and planning your day without using electronics.

Payments, Pokemon, and Planning – Oh My!

[Make the Required Remarkable] Can I Please Just Give You My Money?!

Things We Mentioned in This Segment:

• IVR – Interactive Voice Response

[CX Press] Pokemon Invasion at the Magic Kingdom – an Augmented Reality Experience at Walt Disney World Resort

Things We Mentioned in This Segment:

Pokemon Go
Walt Disney World Resort
• The AR that Ate Disney World – by Josh Goldblum on MuseumNext
• Bluecadet Interactive
Haunted Mansion
Universal Studios
Urban Achieve App
Slavery at Monticello App
• NO AD NYC
Ginza shopping district in Tokyo
• Episode 31, Season One – What Are You Reading? Ready Player One
Ready Player Two

[Partnership with Avtex] Experience Points: Think Fast!

Avtex
• Experience Points

[Dissecting the Experience] Analog Planning Solutions Thriving in a Digital World

Things We Mentioned in This Segment:



Kickstarter
Clay Hebert
• Analog – non-digital planning system
• Ugmonk – a design studio in Downingtown, PA, creating and curating products that combine form & function – founded by Jeff Sheldon, designer

Host Contact Information

Email Dan: Dan@dangingiss.com

Tweet Dan Gingiss: @DGingiss

Email Joey: JoeyC@JoeyColeman.com

DanGingiss.com

JoeyColeman.com

Subscribe to Experience This on Apple Podcasts

Episode Transcript

Download an unedited transcript of Episode 108 here or read it below:

[SHOW INTRO]
Dan Gingiss (00:05): Welcome to experience this.

Joey Coleman (00:08):
where you’ll find inspiring examples of customer experience, great stories of customer service and tips on how to make your customers love you even more.

Dan Gingiss (00:17):
always upbeat, and definitely entertaining customer attention expert Joey Coleman.

Joey Coleman (00:23):
and social media expert. Dan Gingiss serve as your hosts for a weekly dose of positive customer experience.

Dan Gingiss (00:30):
So hold onto your headphones. It’s time to experience. Yes.

[EPISODE 108 INTRO]
Joey Coleman (00:39):
Get ready for another episode of the experience, this show!

Dan Gingiss (00:45):
Join us as we discuss the frustrating process of trying to pay your health insurance premiums, the boundaryless world of augmented reality and planning your day without using electronics.

Joey Coleman (01:00):
Payments, Pokemon, and planning. Oh my!.

[SEGMENT INTRO – MAKE THE REQUIRED REMARKABLE]
Joey Coleman (01:08):
Just because you have required elements of your business doesn’t mean they need to be boring. It’s time to get creative, have some fun and make people sit up and take notice. Get your customers talking when you Make the Required Remarkable.

[MAKE THE REQUIRED REMARKABLE] Can I Please Just Give You My Money?!
Joey Coleman (01:28):
Okay Dan, I know that we do our best to only discuss positive customer experiences here on the Experience This Show, but I had a doozy of an experience recently that offered so many opportunities for improvement that I wanted to share with our listeners.

Dan Gingiss (01:45):
Well, we know that bad experiences can often provide us with the most important takeaways on how not to do things, but this one sounds like a could have been pretty bad.

Joey Coleman (01:57):
It was pretty bad for sure. All right, allow me to set the stage… I do my best to set up all of my monthly subscriptions on auto-bill so that I (1) always make sure to pay my bills on time and (2) so that I don’t need to think about it. If I’m going to be subscribed to something and a bill is going to be coming every month, I like to just set up auto-bill plus auto-pay equals “auto-Joey doesn’t have to think about it!”

Dan Gingiss (02:22):
I love how organized you are and that makes perfect sense. Uh, I mean, look, it’s convenient for you as the customer and it’s convenient for the business because hey, they know that their money’s coming and it’s coming consistently.

Joey Coleman (02:35):
Yeah, right?! I mean, this should be a win/win for everyone, but let me explain how this particular business tried to make it lose/lose for everyone involved. Now I wanted to set up auto billing and auto payment, to a credit card, for my monthly health insurance premium payments.

Dan Gingiss (02:54):
Okay, let me stop you right there. So having worked in this industry, you just said the two words that are associated with perhaps some of the worst experiences (at least in the United States) that a customer can have. And those two words are the dreaded “health insurance.”

Joey Coleman (03:12):
It’s so true. It’s like it strikes fear in the hearts and minds of young children everywhere. Yeah, no, it’s ridiculous. And did they ever live up to that terrible reputation! I’m not going to say the name of the insurance company basically because Dan made me not say it before we started recording because I wanted to light these people up – but I imagined this story might apply to several insurance companies and if my provider happens to be listening in, hopefully they’ll make some improvements. So at the end of last year, I needed to get new insurance because my existing carrier quit providing coverage in the state where I live. So I found a new provider online, I applied and ta-da! – was approved for coverage. I then started getting bills, which I would pay as they came in. But I struggled to find the functionality to set up auto payments. Now, after many months of this, I received yet another paper invoice and thought, this is ridiculous, I’m going to solve this problem today! I’m going to set up auto payment and I’m going to save some trees in the process.

Dan Gingiss (04:21):
I love that you’re both efficient, and environmental, and clearly a man on a mission. But what strikes me here is that this really shouldn’t be your problem.

Joey Coleman (04:31):
It really shouldn’t. And this isn’t rocket science, uh, at the risk of breaking the fourth wall… We’re in 2020 people. We are in 2020 right now, sending something up to auto bill to a credit card and have that payment run every month should be, I don’t know the ante up chips for any business that seeks regular payment from its customers! I don’t understand. I don’t understand. But I digress. So I went to the website that was referenced on my paper bill to quote, “pay online.” But for some reason I couldn’t access the website using my saved username and password.

Dan Gingiss (05:09):
Okay – that never happens.

Joey Coleman (05:11):
Yeah, because that never happens. But this was a little bit strange Dan, because I was 100% sure that I had set up a username and password on the website before to fill out some paperwork for a doctor’s visit that I had. So I know I had done this before.

Dan Gingiss (05:30):
You know, I have to tell you, remembering passwords is my single biggest pet peeve. And I know a lot of people you’ve, you’ve spent a lot of time in the security world, passwords tend to be relatively useless anyway, and yet,

Joey Coleman (05:48):
Correct!

Dan Gingiss (05:48):
And yet they just keep getting more and more complicated. I’ll tell you, without without giving up of my passwords, you know, there’s a certain digit that I end that I add to the end of mine. Uh, and then when they make me reset it or I forget it, I just add another one of those.

Joey Coleman (06:07):
It’s “password5” ladies and gentlemen – that’s Dan’s password! Password5 – after the Jackson Five!

Dan Gingiss (06:13):
So I can always gauge how annoyed I am with a company by how many times I have to hit this digit.

Joey Coleman (06:19):
and you have to change the number, I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. Yeah. So here’s the thing. Most passwords? Total facade. It’s like security at the airport. It is designed to make you feel better, but it’s really not making you any safer. But for some reason, I went to this website and I couldn’t get in. Aand I tried and I was like, no, I know I have the password. And I had it actually saved and I knew what it was. And so when you can’t do something online, what do you do? You call the phone number. Which I did. And I was immediately placed into IVR hell.

Dan Gingiss (06:55):
Oh boy, IVR, the old “interactive voice response” system folks, you know, the one press 7, if you’re still listening and can’t believe we haven’t given you a relevant option yet!

Joey Coleman (07:08):
Exactly, exactly. And I kept saying, “representative!” “Representative!” “Operator! “Human! Human!” and pressing buttons until I finally got to actually speak to a human being

Dan Gingiss (07:19):
Quick question: did you, did you push zero really hard though, because of multiple times?!

Joey Coleman (07:23):
I want to figure out a way, you know, I know they do sentiment analysis on voices within IVR system to hear if the customer is getting worked up, they can route you to a more senior person. I want them to figure out how to connect the haptics of my phone, to the call center, so that when I’m jamming my finger on the zero and screaming, “Human! Human! Operator!” that they know I’m about to put my thumb through my phone and they get me to somebody who can help faster. But that’s what I would like to have happen… and I would like to say that when I got on the phone with a human, everything got set up and was easy peasy. But instead, the representative explained – now hold onto your seats folks – that they actually have two different websites: one ending in .org and the other one ending in, uh,
yeah, .org as well. The first.org website is where you go to see your doctors’ appointments to get test results, to schedule visits, etc. And the second.org website is where you go to pay your bill. They are two entirely different websites!

Dan Gingiss (08:38):
So wait, they have a separate website for paying the bill – that you can’t access from the main website where you have all of your other online interactions with them?!

Joey Coleman (08:46):
Exactly. 100% Dan, you got it! Okay. I had to create an entirely new username because as it turns out, for some reason you can’t have the same username and an entirely new password, because again, for some reason you can’t use the same password. So I had to have two separate usernames and two separate passwords for the same relationship with the insurance company. And after trying to give them money for over an hour, between my own troubleshooting and waiting to speak to a live person that could actually explain what was going on, I was finally able to set up my monthly bill so that it would auto-pay.

Dan Gingiss (09:29):
Well, Joey, on behalf of health insurance providers, everywhere, I’d like to apologize for your poor experience.

Joey Coleman (09:36):
I need therapy at this point for this. This is ridiculous.

Dan Gingiss (09:40):
I mean, there’s a bunch of things that obviously are going wrong here. And I’ve been trying to think, as you’ve been telling this story, why in the world, they would have a separate site. And most answers in the healthcare industry are unsatisfactory from a CX perspective, and from a customer’s perspective, it’s literally, I don’t care. Right? So my guess is there was some compliance reason that they did it so that they kept credit cards away from, you know, health information or they just outsourced it to somebody else. And they said, well, we’ll do this because it’s cheaper and faster for us, even if it’s not cheaper or faster for the customer.

Joey Coleman (10:17):
Yeah! And to me then I feel like the default is they actually didn’t care because as a recovering attorney and I’ll be the first to admit, I am not intimately familiar with all the particulars of HIPAA and the various compliance laws that health insurance companies are under, but for the life of me, in all of my experiences, I have never come across an organization that requires two separate usernames and two separate passwords to access the same company and pushes you through one website for every interaction except paying your bill. And then they push you through a different site. It makes no sense.

Dan Gingiss (10:56):
Yeah. And I mean, probably Joey, this was from the days when people paid their health insurance by writing a check and sticking it in the mail. And that’s probably the extent of the maturity of their payment processing systems. And so now that people want to pay online, the answer internally is, well, how do we do this quickly? And cheaply? I mean, this is just an inconvenience for us. And yet it isn’t – because when people pay online, they pay more quickly. They pay on time. They pay more accurately. There’s less processing – it’s actually, yeah, you, you have to pay a fee as a company generally for the transaction – but all in all, it’s going to end up a lot cheaper for the company. And to be perfectly honest Joey, even if it wasn’t, I still believe it’s incumbent upon the company to provide a payment experience that is simple. And I want to bring this to today because we’re seeing payments – I’ve also spent a lot of time in the payments industry – we’re seeing payments come back into the national storyline again, because people now are looking for touchless payments. And this used to be a thing that is sometimes they offered it, sometimes they didn’t… I’ve never been a huge Apple Pay or Google Pay user because I’m not even sure which stores take it and which stores don’t, and so what have you, and now all of a sudden, everybody wants it. And so many more places are offering. And I think you make a good point about that you’re just trying to give them money. A quick story – and very quick – is when I worked at Discover, as you may know, not every merchant in the US takes Discover either – and when I got to talk to some of the merchants, I would ask them, “why do you want to not accept a method of payment from your customer?” I mean, if they want to pay you in, I don’t know.

Joey Coleman (12:49):
anything other than a wagon full of wheat! But any type of “convertible” usable currency, whether it’s a credit card, whether it’s cash, you know, come on friends! It’s not that hard. And especially when it’s credit card, because I presume the folks you were talking to took other credit cards – they just didn’t take Discover.

Dan Gingiss (13:10):
But again, their reasoning might’ve been, Oh, well, you know, discover costs me a 100th of 1% higher per transaction in terms of a fee. It’s like, you know what? Your customer doesn’t care. They just want to use their card and you’re telling them no, and you think that doesn’t have an impact on their experience, but it absolutely does!

Joey Coleman (13:30):
Absolutely! And here’s the crazy thing. If it is difficult to pay you, what other aspects of this relationship am I not going to enjoy? If the act of me giving you money is going to cause me stress and a headache, what’s going to happen when you actually have to deliver on the service? What, what state do you think I’m going to be in? What do you think my pre-framed expectations are going to be? It’s a hot mess!

Dan Gingiss (13:57):
I’ll give you one more though. Joey… If it’s hard to pay you, I’m going to go find somebody who’s easy to pay!

Joey Coleman (14:04):
Oh, it’s funny you should say that Dan, because I spent today – in anticipation of recording our segment – trying to find a new insurance company because I’m done. I’m done! And I haven’t had any negative experiences with them in terms of the care, but I’m waiting for the other shoe to drop. I’m like, if it’s this hard to pay you, what’s it going to be like when I actually need you to cover a claim? What’s it going to be like when I need you to go to bat for me? So at the end of the day, here’s the thing – this segment is a required remarkable story. And while our stories usually talk about interactions that are worthy of making a remark about, we don’t often talk about the negative remarks. But I wanted to break from our tradition this time, to point out that you’re most commonly occurring activities: scheduling appointments, communicating with customers, taking payments, should be the easiest, most convenient, most efficient elements of your brand experience. And if your required interactions aren’t designed to maximize the customer experience, you’re missing out on a huge opportunity to create a touch point worth talking about. And frankly, you’re going to be missing out on a lot more in the, not too distant future, because you’re not going to be in business anymore.

[SEGMENT INTRO – CX PRESS]
Joey Coleman (15:26):
There are so many great customer experience articles to read, but who has the time we summarize them and offer clear takeaways you can implement starting tomorrow. Enjoy this segment of CX Press, where we read the articles, so you don’t need to!

[CX PRESS] Pokemon Invasion at the Magic Kingdom – an Augmented Reality Experience at Walt Disney World Resort
Joey Coleman (15:41):
Dan, have you or your kids ever played Pokemon Go?

Dan Gingiss (15:48):
Okay. Well, first of all, I’m insulted by the fact that you think I played this. No!

Joey Coleman (15:52):
Hey, you know, it takes all different kinds. I know you’re a real tech guy. You’re aware of the socials, you’re on the Twitters, and you’re doing your thing. And I thought, you know, you, you pay attention to trends in technology. I thought you might’ve given it a dabble.

Dan Gingiss (16:05):
Yeah – no Pokemon Go for me. My son collected the cards for a while, but for whatever reason, neither of them got into the “Go” thing.

Joey Coleman (16:14):
Gotcha. Well, I haven’t either, but to be honest, that doesn’t mean that I’m not interested in augmented reality – or AR as people often call it. To be honest, that’s why I was intrigued by an article that I came across recently titled “The AR that Ate Disney World.” Now the article was on the MuseumNext website, that’s MuseumNext.com for those of you that aren’t regularly cruising the MuseumNext website for breaking CX news! Uh, but it was written by a former office mate and friend of mine, Josh Goldblum. Josh is the founding principle of Emmy award winning interactive design studio, Bluecadet Interactive. And in the article, Josh relates an interesting scenario that played out when he took his son to Disney World for the first time earlier this year (pre-COVID). He sets the scene as follows:

Joey Coleman (17:08):
“As the two of us stood in line at Haunted Mansion – me trying to introduce my son to the happiest place on earth and him getting increasingly restless, I finally gave up my phone and let him play a game. Pokemon Go. Pokemon Go is a massive AR scavenger hunt game that allows players to compete and collect location specific Pokemon. Here we are in the heart of the Disney empire and to my surprise, it had been fully and aggressively populated with Pokemon Go PokeStops and gyms. Even in the very heart of Disney’s Magic Kingdom, Pokemon has staked its claim. There stands a statue of Walt Disney holding hands with Mickey, Cinderella’s Castle towering in the background. To say it’s a popular place to take a family picture or a selfie would be a massive understatement! It’s also a PokeStop. While tourists cued to take pictures, my son eagerly challenged other Pokemon trainers and collected rare Pokemon. He was ecstatic by what he was seeing, and it seemed to have much more to do with Pokemon brand IP than the famed IP of Disney corporation.

Dan Gingiss (18:20):
So I feel like we have to explain a little bit of this here because man, my head is spinning already. Uh, first of all, I was actually thinking about a story you told previously about Universal Studios and how good they are with the lines and how much I was really interesting to stand in line.

Joey Coleman (18:36):
They keep you engaged while you wait.

Dan Gingiss (18:39):
Right – and here’s the opposite. And so, uh, I think that was immediately disappointing, but this Pokemon game, from what I understand and what we’re talking about, augmented reality what’s happening here is, is people are using their phones and they use the camera part of their phone to sort of show where they are. And then things pop onto the screen that are not actually in the world (that’s why it’s augmented reality) things pop up onto the screen sort of on top of the camera video.

Joey Coleman (19:10):
Exactly! So you feel like you’re looking through the phone at the world and you know what the world is behind the phone (because you can see kind of around the phone and see it there), but what you’re seeing on the phone, includes other images, other characters, other items that aren’t there in the real world, but they’re in the augmented reality that you can see through your phone.

Dan Gingiss (19:34):
Right? And for this particular game, if you find the rare Pokemon or whatever it is…

Joey Coleman (19:37):
You get points. You can collect things. Yeah. Yeah.

Dan Gingiss (19:40):
So the fascinating thing here, and I’m guessing, this is why some of why you’re sharing this story is that Pokemon is not a Disney brand and Disney is famously very protective of its brand. And yet here is this gentleman and his son in line at a Disney park and then walking around the Disney park playing Pokemon. And I got to imagine the Disney folks are not real excited about that because they want everything, they want to control every facet of the experience. And

obviously they want it to be their branding. So I’ve kind of interested to hear what hear what happened next?

Joey Coleman (20:17):
Well, you’re, you’re spot on Dan, because I think like most businesses, there is a presumption that when you come to their property, or their place of business, or their office, or their restaurant, or their, you know, store, whatever it may be, that your only going to experience things that they have put there, and that are in the real world, and that they are going to be able to architect, and design, and dare I say, control the type of interactions you have. And despite the fact that Disney has big fences around the property, that you have to buy a ticket to get in, guess what?! The Pokemon characters come in. Now as Josh notes in this article, “the best AR puts new lenses on the world, around us, adding new interpretations.” He goes on to share how, “the urban archive app sends New Yorkers push notifications when they are near the sites of historic photos from the New York Public Libraries Archives. The Slavery at Monticello app features location-specific content that adds to the experience of exploring Thomas Jefferson’s home, a the folks at No Ad took an almost adversarial approach using AR to replace billboards with art – for an experiment in real life ad blocking. These applications of AR rewrite the world around us – without boundaries, or restrictions.

Dan Gingiss (21:47):
And I’ll give you an example related to the business world that I thought was really cool. And this was actually before AR became a thing in the United States. So I happened to be traveling in Japan and I was in Tokyo and there is a famous shopping district called Ginza – I don’t know if you’ve been there or not?

Joey Coleman (22:04):
Oh yes! Ginza is fantastic!

Dan Gingiss (22:06):
I actually took a – fun fact – I took a picture (a selfie) in front of a gigantic door that had a big G on it, which of course in my mind stood for “Gingiss” not Ginza. I digress… Anyway – and what, what this company had built was an AR app that as you’re walking down the street of Ginza, and you see all the stores on your left and right, that offers from those stores started popping up onto your screen because the screen knew that you were right next to Coach, the whatever, whatever store it was. And these offers would start popping up as you walked down the street, which I thought was really fascinating. So there’s definitely business applications for this, but it is a little bit intrusive. It’s a little bit, you know, I would say you called me a technology person before. I would say, this is really the early adopters right now that are using this for any business perspective. The gamesmanship part is, is kind of fun. I mean, the Pokemon Go thing had it to 15 minutes of fame in the, you know, in the world and it was a lot of fun. But I’m curious to know whether this technology ends up having applications that are more widespread going forward.

Joey Coleman (23:25):
Well, I think what’s interesting, Dan – and I agree with you, we are very much in the early stages and it’s why, you know, I want to do at least flag this in a segment on our podcast because we, we really haven’t talked about augmented reality before (that I’m recalling or certainly not in depth). And…

Dan Gingiss (23:42):
Wait a minute, do you want to ask the Episode Rainman whether we have?

Joey Coleman (23:44):
Okay Rainman – have we talked about augmented reality before at any point in the last six seasons?

Dan Gingiss (23:51): Actually…

Joey Coleman (23:52):
Oh sweet nectar of the gods. Unbelievable. Ladies and gentlemen, Dan Gingiss. He is the librarian of our history.

Dan Gingiss (24:00):
Actually…

Joey Coleman (24:01):
I don’t remember the episode we recorded yesterday! Dan’s going to tell us about what we recorded years ago!

Dan Gingiss (24:07):
Well, it was years ago. It was Season One, Episode 31, we did a “What Are You Reading” segment on “Ready Player One.”

Joey Coleman (24:16):
Oh yes! Fantastic book! Segue… Ready Player Two is coming out soon – a sequel to the fabulous book Ready Player One. Fantastic! Fantastic! But anyway, we digress. So here’s the thing. You’re right. Dan, we are at the very edge. Most businesses aren’t even familiar with the concept of augmented reality, let alone doing anything to incorporate it into their experience, but here’s why I wanted to flag it. Now the possibilities for incorporating augmented reality into your brand and into your brand location are truly limitless. We haven’t even begun to scratch the surface of what’s possible. Now imagine Nike creating an impact for you, what their experience in the stores, but then take it one step further and imagine what would happen if Nike added in a digital cheering crowd in the bleachers where you run at your local track in the morning before work, right? Is there a monument in your town that you don’t like for whatever reason? Well, imagine being able to tell the rest of the story or your version of the story in augmented reality, while you’re waiting for the local government to make a decision about whether or not to remove the monument. Now, as Josh notes in the article, “In my own city of Philadelphia, we only have two monuments to women in the entire city. Solving that disparity will take a generation. And in the meantime, AR could memorialize and tell the stories of the women who should be commemorated with permanent monuments.” So we can actually start to think about taking our brand experiences and pushing the envelope well beyond the scope of the real estate we own and the experiences we can control.

Dan Gingiss (26:03):
I think that’s the neatest part about this story is that basically the folks at Pokemon go have invaded enemy territory, right? And have been able to bring their brand into an area that as we said, is, is famously closed off or, or at least is famously meticulously monitored. And, uh, and they’re able not in the real world, but in the augmented world to invade into Disney and bring their brand with them.

Joey Coleman (26:32):
Absolutely. Well, I’ll conclude this segment by giving Josh Goldbloom of Bluecadet Interactive, the last word he wraps up this CX press article” “The AR that Ate Disney World” with this hope: “The full power of AR will come when users can create and contribute their own content and worlds. We aren’t fully there yet, but already these tools are slipping into wider use. I look forward to a not too distant future where everyone has the opportunity, at least digitally, to design the world around them. Where access to a range of AR tools will allow us so many new ways of seeing.”

[PARTNERSHIP WITH AVTEX] Think Fast!

Joey Coleman (27:22):
Alright, give me 60 seconds on the clock Dan!

Dan Gingiss (27:24):
Wait, what?

Joey Coleman (27:25):
60 seconds! 60 seconds!

Dan Gingiss (27:27):
Okay. But what are you going to do with them?

Joey Coleman (27:29):
Okay. It’s not what I’m going to do with it, Dan. It’s what our celebrity contestants are going to do when they have just 60 seconds to answer a series of questions in the final game, we’ll play on our new game show, Experience Points – presented by our friends at Avtex, who transformed customer experience through CX design and orchestration.

Dan Gingiss (27:48):
In Think Fast, we ask five experience questions. Each question has two possible answers. Contestants need to think fast and answer fast because they have just 60 seconds to complete the game.

Joey Coleman (27:58):
Correct answers. Given before time runs out are worth a hundred points. If they correctly answer all five questions, the contestant earns a bonus of 500 points for a total possible score of 1000 points, which would mean a $1,000 donation to the charity of their choosing.

Dan Gingiss (28:14):
Alright, let’s show them how this works. Joey.

Joey Coleman (28:16):
Good idea. Dan, I’m going to ask you three quick questions from an upcoming episode of Experience Points. Are you ready?

Dan Gingiss (28:23):
I’m ready!

Joey Coleman (28:24):
All right. Let’s do this on your marks, get set, Go!

Joey Coleman (28:28):
What percentage of consumers have received a text message from a business: 54% or 84%?

Dan Gingiss (28:34):
Uh, 84%.

Joey Coleman (28:35):
Which group checks their phone the most within an hour: 30 to 44 year olds, or 45 to 60 year olds?

Dan Gingiss (28:43):
I’m going against the grain and saying 45 to 60.

Joey Coleman (28:46):
I love it. And what percentage of consumers respond to text messages in less than 10 minutes: 50% or 78%?

Dan Gingiss (28:54):
78%.

Joey Coleman (28:55):
Woo. That was fast.

Dan Gingiss (28:58):
How’d I do? How’d I do?

Joey Coleman (29:00):
Well, alas, Dan, we don’t have any more time on the clock. So people are gonna need to tune into Experience Points to learn more. See you there soon!

[SEGMENT INTRO – DISSECTING THE EXPERIENCE]
Joey Coleman (29:10):
Sometimes a remarkable experience deserves deeper investigation. We dive into the nitty gritty of customer interactions and dissect how, and why, they happen. Join us while we’re Dissecting the Experience.

[DISSECTING THE EXPERIENCE] Analog Planning Solutions Thriving in a Digital World
Joey Coleman (29:27):
Dan, are you a Kickstarter guy?

Dan Gingiss (29:30):
Well, a Kickstarter guy. I don’t know. I mean, I’ve, I’ve backed a couple of projects on Kickstarter, but I I’m not on there very often I would say.

Joey Coleman (29:39):
Alrighty, well, I’ll make a little true confession here. I may have an addiction to Kickstarter. I support or in the language of Kickstarter, “back” a lot of projects there. In fact, I was looking at it earlier and today I have supported or backed over 110 projects on the platform.

Dan Gingiss (30:02):
Wow. That does sound like an addiction. Do they have a support group for that?

Joey Coleman (30:06):
If they do, I need to join and I’m not a member yet, but maybe I should be. What can I say? I think it’s a really fascinating platform.

Dan Gingiss (30:15):
All right. Well, some of our listeners may not be familiar with it, so maybe you can give us a starter description on Kickstarter.

Joey Coleman (30:23):
Okay, so here’s the idea behind Kickstarter. It starts with a project creator, somebody who has an idea of something they’d like to see in the world. They make a little video explaining what they want to create. They tell the story of why they think it would be useful. They sell you on the idea of you need this product or this thing they’re going to create too. And then they set up some pledge support levels – ,which are basically different levels that, you know, for a dollar you can just be that you’re a supporter and a fan. And they go up to where maybe for like a thousand dollars, you can get the original artwork that they’re going to create or something like that. And then they also list out some risks and challenges and their likelihood of being able to successfully complete the project. Now, the platform features everything from games to films, to music, to technology inventions, to comic books. Basically, if you’re a creator and you can present a solid story, you can get people to back your idea by pledging money in advance of your product being completed. And you then use those funds – minus a fee to Kickstarter, of course – to fulfill the pledges and deliver your product to these loyal patrons who have agreed to be first movers or first supporters of your new brand.

Dan Gingiss (31:41):
You know, I really like this in concept, even though I don’t do it as often as you do, because first of all, you know, from a customer experience perspective, you’re really measuring the audience before you invest heavily into the product or service. And I mean, let’s face it, you go on Kickstarter and nobody’s interested – that’s a pretty good indicator that maybe you should go find something else!

Joey Coleman (32:04):
Yeah, exactly – and maybe you’ve spent, you know, an hour to write up your description and shot a little video on your phone and you know, all right. Well, my great idea. Yeah, my mom, my by one and maybe my roommate, but that’s about it. It’s not going to have the traction in the marketplace.

Dan Gingiss (32:20): Exactly, exactly.

Joey Coleman (32:21):
But if you get it right, it can go bonkers. And there was something that I found on Kickstarter recently, and I wanted to tell you about the product, because I think you’ll be interested to hear about the product. I think our listeners will be interested to hear about our product and also about the success that this creator was able to have on the Kickstarter platform.

Dan Gingiss (32:46):
Well, Joey, if you are a backer, I’m all ears.

Joey Coleman (32:50):
All right. Well, I appreciate that, Dan. I’m not exactly sure if this is going to be your kind of thing, which will, uh, reveal itself here momentarily, but bear with me. Okay. This product is called “Analog” and it builds itself as the simplest productivity system. It’s designed by Jeff Sheldon. Now Jeff is best known for starting a company called Ugmonk. Ugmonk is design studio in Downington, Pennsylvania, that creates and curates products that combine form and function from simple minimal well-made t-shirts to desk organizers Ugmonk is a lot like buying from your neighborhood corner store. And as it says on their website, quote, “not only are you supporting our family, but you’re also supporting other extraordinarily hardworking small businesses with all that said, if I’m lucky enough to call you a customer, great, but if for whatever reason, you don’t see anything that catches your eye, please walk away with this: I encourage you to leave the world better than you found it by thoughtfully choosing quality over quantity, less over, more lasting, over trending and profound over popular.”

Dan Gingiss (33:59):
We’ll find out whether I like this guy’s product, but I can tell you, I already liked the guy. I mean, he seems like a great guy.

Joey Coleman (34:03):
Yeah! He’s got, he’s got great copywriting and he clearly is speaking to a very specific audience. Now I actually came to know about Jeff and Ugmonk and Analog years ago when I tagged along to a meeting that my good friend and a friend of the experience, this show Clay Hebert was having with Analog’s creator. So Jeff was using a prototype of the Analog product and I was enamoured from the start. Now this is going to sound crazy folks, okay?! Analog is a physical companion for your digital tools. What that means is it helps you prioritize and focus on your most important task. So think of it as a daily to do list that is captured on paper instead of in your phone or computer.

Dan Gingiss (34:54):
Okay. Yeah, I I’m I’m with you so far. I mean, I have like Post-It notes all over the place and you know, it’s very difficult to keep organized and uh, even with phones and stuff like that. So I get it. Tell me more…

Joey Coleman (35:07):
I too have Post-It notes all over and let’s be candid, when you pick up your phone, let’s say you have a “to do list” app on your phone. There’s probably a billion entries and you have to learn how to use the app. And then you have to remember when you do something to go on the app. And I don’t know about you. I have a certain excitement about writing down what the things I’m going to be focusing on that day and then crossing them off at the end of the day. And it sounds crazy, but the psychologist will say that there’s a reason that we like to do that. And what Jeff done with Analog is he’s taken this necessary element of keeping track of the things that are in our minds, in a cacophonous world, where we just have tons of things coming at us all the time, and has produced a beautiful solution. It’s gorgeously designed. There are three cards: there are Today cards, their are Next cards, and Someday cards. So you can kind of bucket the items on your to do list. You get a fresh start every day because you start with a new card. It’s tangible and physical. It’s not sitting around in zeros and ones, and bits and bots on the internet. It’s something that you can actually hold in your hand and the way he’s designed it is there’s a desk holder where you can kind of prop up the card on your desk, right next to your computer, so it’s physically in front of you, or you can keep it within arms reach. There’s like a little travel holder where you can carry along like a little stack of what are basically beautifully designed index cards,, to record what your various task and to do items are.

Dan Gingiss (36:38):
Well Joey – I’m a simple man. I actually like the aspect of the non-digital and I have found for a long time that I’m much better off keeping it to do list on a piece of paper with a pencil. I still like writing in pencil. There is something about writing it down that somehow keeps it in my memory. I agree with you on the idea of crossing it off. I’ve never thought of this, however, as having to be a beautiful work of art or an, you know, an experience more than a pad of paper. So it’s, it’s interesting. I think conceptually, I’m definitely with you, I’ve looked at some of the pictures and we’ll include them in our show notes that it is, it is beautiful. So if you know, if you want something beautiful on your desk to help you, uh, keep track of your day, I think this definitely fits the bill.

Joey Coleman (37:34):
I appreciate that. And I think what it speaks to is this combination of form and function. And I think so often when people are developing products, there were, there were kind of two pieces of this story. I wanted to tell number one, when people are thinking about products as a general rule, they have a tendency to over index on either form or function. Now, based on what you just said, Dan, you kind of are a guide that skews a little more towards function. You’d be just as happy with a Post-It note or a spiral notebook or somewhere. You can write it down where as I might be a guy who skews a little bit more towards form than function, where if it looks pretty, I’m going to be more excited about it. This is why, interestingly enough, I use a Mac laptop. You use a PC laptop, okay? It’s not a commentary on Mac or PC it’s that aesthetics react differently. And what I think is interesting is in our modern world, you can carve out a niche, or a niche, or a niche (depending on how you pronounce it) of customers that skew way either form or function. And in an increasingly digital world, people are craving these analog experiences. And I have to believe in a world where we’re doing more and more Zoom calls, and more and more conference calls, and we’re not having as many interactions outside the home with beautiful things and beautiful products that having something that you can hold in your hand is going to change the conversation. And here’s the interesting thing… I’m not the only one who thought this. So when Jeff started the Kickstarter project, he hoped to raise $6,000. When the project was done, he had raised over $451,000 from over 5,000 backers. It’s not just Joey that liked the Analog solution.

Dan Gingiss (39:26):
Well, that’s pretty impressive. I mean $451,000 – I’m not all that good at math, but it’s a lot more than $6,000 isn’t it?!

Joey Coleman (39:33):
And these, by the way, are preorders. He’s now able to go to the printer and print exactly how many he needs at the price points he needs, having factored in the delivery cost and mechanisms. And he knows that his product launch is going to be successful – and profitable – from day one. And most businesses don’t have that level of confidence when they roll a new product into the marketplace.

Dan Gingiss (40:00):
Absolutely. And that’s what I was saying before that I think it’s such a cool idea that you can kind of pretest with the market. And obviously this guy knows that he’s onto something. So I hope you’ll come back and tell us about it once the item arrives?

Joey Coleman (40:14):
I definitely will Dan, but here’s something that I already know. And this takes us back to an earlier episode. We had this season where we talked about the Kenneth Cole luggage. And in fact it was the last episode, the one just proceeding this one. When you find a brand that you love, that consistently delivers remarkable results and experiences, when that brand comes out with a new product or a new service offering, you want it. You buy it! You trust that the experience will continue to be remarkable – which is what I’m expecting from the fine folks at Ugmonk with their new product Analog.

[SHOW OUTRO]
Joey Coleman (40:56):
Wow, thanks for joining us for another episode of Experience This

Dan Gingiss (41:00):
We know there are tons of podcasts to listen to, magazines and books to read, reality TV to watch. We don’t take for granted that you’ve decided to spend some quality time listening to the two of us.

Joey Coleman (41:10):
We hope you enjoyed our discussions and if you do, we’d love to hear about it! Come on over to ExperienceThisShow.com and let us know what segments you enjoyed, what new segments you’d like to hear. This show is all about experience and we want you to be part of the Experience This! Show!

Dan Gingiss (41:27):
Thanks again for your time and we’ll see you next week for more

Joey Coleman (41:32):
Experience.

Dan Gingiss (41:32):
This!

Episode 106 – Make the Most of the Situation to Create A Remarkable Experience

Join us as we discuss admitting mistakes before your customers notice them, building fans by sharing secret recipes, and revisiting the power of customer evangelism.

Reprints, Recipes, and Re-Releases – Oh My!

[This Just Happened] Juniper Books Plans a Reprint Before Anyone Realized It Was Necessary

Things We Mentioned in This Segment:

Episode 101 – Making Things Beautiful Rockets Your Business Forward
Juniper Books
Books Everyone Should Own
• Don Quixote
Episode 30 – Grammar Police

[Dissecting the Experience] The Chik-fil-a Secret Menu

Things We Mentioned in This Segment:

Chik-fil-a
Tik Tok – Chik-fil-a Menu Hacks

[Partnership with Avtex] Experience Points: Fake or Fact?

Things We Mentioned in This Segment:

Avtex
• Experience Points

[Book Report] The Cult of the Customer by Shep Hyken

Things We Mentioned in This Segment:

Shep Hyken
• The Cult of the Customer – by Shep Hyken

Host Contact Information

Email Dan: Dan@dangingiss.com

Tweet Dan Gingiss: @DGingiss

Email Joey: JoeyC@JoeyColeman.com

DanGingiss.com

JoeyColeman.com

Subscribe to Experience This on Apple Podcasts

Episode Transcript

Download an automated (non-corrected) transcript of Episode 106 here or read it below:

[SHOW INTRO]

Dan Gingiss (00:05):
Welcome to Experience This!

Joey Coleman (00:08):
Where you’ll find inspiring examples of customer experience, great stories of customer service, and tips on how to make your customers love you, even more!

Dan Gingiss (00:18):
Always upbeat, and definitely entertaining customer retention, expert Joey Coleman.

Joey Coleman (00:23):
and social media expert. Dan Gingiss… serve as your hosts for a weekly dose of positive customer experience.

Dan Gingiss (00:31):
So hold onto your headphones… It’s time to Experience This!

Joey Coleman (00:39):
Get ready, for another episode of the Experience This! Show!

Dan Gingiss (00:45):
Join us as we discuss: admitting mistakes before your customers notice them, building fans by sharing secret recipes, and revisiting the power of customer evangelism…

Joey Coleman (00:57):
Reprints, recipes, and rereleases… Oh my!

Joey Coleman (01:03):
We love telling stories and sharing key insights you can implement,, or avoid based on our experiences. Can you believe that This Just Happened?

Joey Coleman (01:18):
Hey Dan, let’s play “name that episode.”

Dan Gingiss (01:21):
Oh, you know I love that game!

Joey Coleman (01:24):
Yes I do. All right. Last season, I spoke about an experience I had with my friend Thatcher Wine’s company, Juniper Books.

Dan Gingiss (01:33):
I could never forget a name like Thatcher Wine.

Joey Coleman (01:37):
It’s a great name.

Dan Gingiss (01:37):
I remember it… it was Episode 101.

Joey Coleman (01:42):
You know, ladies and gentlemen, it’s amazing… My cohost is like the “Rain Man” of experience this episode numbers. Anyway, I know we spoke about the folks at Juniper Books, just a few episodes ago, but something happened between recording that episode and the one we’re recording now that I wanted to share. Now, as our listeners may remember, Juniper Books has a subscription program called, “Books Everyone Should Own” which they refer to as BESO (books everyone should own) – as in an acronym. It’s a series of classic books with refreshed, unique covers that are delivered monthly. Now, I got a subscription for my wife Berit and so each month she gets a new book in the mail.

Dan Gingiss (02:29):
I don’t know if you know this joy, but “beso” or “beso” means “kiss” in Spanish.

Joey Coleman (02:35):
Oh, there you go… I did not know that. Maybe they mean to pronounce it “beso.” I don’t know.

Dan Gingiss (02:43):
Anyway, I know that your wife Berit really enjoys books, so I’m imagining she is enjoying the ongoing surprise of getting a new book every month…

Joey Coleman (02:52):
You know, she does enjoy books and she loves surprises. And what’s interesting to me is that every time she gets a book, I get to see what it is. But to be honest, I don’t spend a ton of time looking at it because it’s her gift, which is why I was a bit caught off guard. When I received the following email from Juniper books one day. And to be clear, the reason I received this email is because I’m the one who gave the gift. So it’s my name on the account intentionally, because when I originally gifted her the gift, I didn’t want her to get an email about it. I wanted to surprise her. So the subject line of this email said, “Mistakes were Made” and the email reads as follows:

Joey Coleman (03:34):
Hello! Thank you for being a BESO subscriber. We hope you are enjoying your thoughtfully curated and designed collection of classics during these difficult times. We misprinted the recently shipped Don Quixote jacket and wanted to let you know that we will be sending you a replacement jacket in early August. The jacket you currently have has a placeholder text on the front inside flap that we neglected to remove before printing. We apologize for this air for 19 years, we have always stood behind our creations. We always want to make sure our books and jackets are of the finest quality that they look great on your shelves, feel good in your hands and that they stand the test of time. When the new jacket arrives, it will be pre folded. So you will be able to swap out the new jacket for the old one easily. Don’t forget that. One of the perks of being a member of one of our subscription programs is that you receive free shipping on any domestic orders@juniperbooks.com. Just be sure to sign into your account while shopping and your shipping discount will automatically apply. Our book sets are always great for gifting this summer and for the holidays, please feel free to reach out to me directly if you have any questions. Thanks again,

Dan Gingiss (04:52):
You know, joy, fun fact, but Don Quixote is Spanish!

Joey Coleman (05:00):
Ladies and gentlemen, Dan Gingiss – social media expert, and Spanish translator in this segment.

Dan Gingiss (05:09):
Si señor! Anyway, uh, I know, I know you’re probably looking for my comment here and I could deliver it in Spanish, but I’m going to keep this show in English. What I love about this is that it’s proactive and they didn’t have to wait for somebody to figure out that something was wrong or that there was an error. A lot of companies, their first instinct is if we don’t say anything, no one will notice.

Speaker 2 (05:33):
Totally, totally. And what was cool about this is to be completely candid. Neither I, nor my wife had noticed, like this mistake could have gone unaddressed for frankly quite a long time, if not forever, had we not been alerted to this scenario? So it’s a great example of when something goes wrong, be proactive, but here’s where I felt they really closed the loop on this. So not long after receiving the first email, I received another email with the subject line mistakes were fixed and the email reads as follows. Hello, thank you again for being a BSO subscriber with Juniper books, I thought I’d follow up on my email of July 8th, alerting you. There was an issue with the donkey Otay jacket originally sent in June. The corrected jacket for your edition of Don Quixote should be arriving any day. Now, once it does simply remove the jacket currently on the book and easily replace it with your brand new one, we do apologize for the air. As noted in my email, we will always stand by our product and we want your collection to be perfect. Please let us know if you have any questions. Thank you.

Dan Gingiss (06:49):
You know, I’m reminded here as I’m sure you were Joey of Episode 30 in Season 1.

Joey Coleman (06:56):
If you offered me a million dollars to tell you what we talked about in Episode 30, you would get to keep your million dollars… friends.

Dan Gingiss (07:05):
What we talked about was a tweet from the British clothing company, ASIS, which

Joey Coleman (07:12):
Do you remember this idea? Remember this? I didn’t remember that tweet Bart.

Dan Gingiss (07:16):
Yeah, of course. You’re blocking that out.

Joey Coleman (07:18):
I remembered the British clothing company.

Dan Gingiss (07:19):
But yeah, so they had a spelling error on one of their bags, the packages, their clothing, and you know, I always say most companies would have never noticed this spelling error. The one out of a hundred that did, would have thrown out the bags, but not a sauce. They ended up tweeting a picture of the error and they called it a limited edition and their tweet got more than 50,000 likes and however many thousand retweets just because they proactively admitted a mistake. They poked a little fun at themselves and had a little, you know, there was a little self-deprecating and I think it endeared people to the brand. And look, I wouldn’t say this example was quite as playful, but I think it stands to the same reason that they noticed the mistake. They’re very proud of their product. It wasn’t okay with them that it was wrong, regardless of whether it was okay with the customers. And so, like you said, at the Coleman family, it probably would have been okay. Nobody even noticed, but it wasn’t okay with them. And I think that says a lot about this company and it says to me that it’s the kind of company I want to do business with.

Speaker 2 (08:29):
Exactly Dan. And that’s the reason why I wanted to tell this story. Not because I’m a big fan of Juniper books, although I am not because, you know, they made this agregious error. They didn’t, it was a tiny little thing. But what does it say for someone you’re doing business with when they tell you that they’ve not lived up to their own standards? So often in the world of customer experience, the reason customer experiences go bad is because the companies fail to live up to the experience that their customers are expecting. It’s a completely different ball game and a completely different, uh, commitment to excellence. When as a brand, you say, you know what? We already sent out the product, you have it, no one’s going to be injured by this. This isn’t a product defect that we need to do a recall on this is a cosmetic thing at best.

Speaker 2 (09:22):
And probably something that less than 5% of customers would ever even notice. And yet for the folks at Juniper books that was not acceptable, they wanted to deliver the same standard that they had for the last 19 years. And you know, what’s great about this. They use the apology email to restate their brand commitment, to excellence in the apology email. As you may recall, they kind of referenced that free shipping perk of membership. So it’s not really an upsell. It’s more of a reminder that like, Hey, you have this perk of being a member that you might’ve forgotten about it. So Hey, if you want to take advantage of the perk, go ahead and do it. The tone was personal. It was honest. It was sincere. And they delivered the fix. You know, the newly printed jacket as planned on schedule as promised. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:15):
If you’re listening to the show, which obviously, if you can hear my voice right now, you clearly are. I would ask you to think about how would your company react to a mistake?

Speaker 2 (10:27):
Oh, be careful here, Dan, a lot of people are feeling self conscious right now. No kidding. They probably should people. Yeah, because they’re like, ah, my company would do nothing like this.

Speaker 1 (10:37):
Right? And then you should ask yourself why, but also, I mean, let’s run through the options here really fast, Joey. So we could do nothing and then what’s going to happen. Well, as you said, 5% of our customers are gonna call up. So we’re going to spend some call center, time, handling their calls. We’re going to have to do something for them, either refund their money, or maybe we print up a few extra jackets and we send it to them and then they’ll be happy and satisfied.

Speaker 2 (11:01):
And then maybe three months later, someone finally gets to reading Don Quixote. Cause it’s not a small book friends. And they then realize what the other people realized earlier. So then they call in and we hope to have printed enough, extra covers that we have some to send to them because God forbid, one of the other customers shares what had happened to them. They want to treat it, be treated the same. This is a problem that never ends.

Speaker 1 (11:25):
Right. And we have to stock these covers forever and all that stuff. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (11:28):
Instead we spent a little bit more

Speaker 1 (11:31):
Money now, maybe a lot more money now. And we sent the cover to everyone. But in the meantime, what we did is we made fans out of our customers and we got them telling their friends about us, talking about us, appreciating us more. I guarantee you, if you look at business metrics like, uh, how many of their customers

Speaker 2 (11:54):
Stay on this subscription program? Those will be extended. The, the tenure will be extended. More people will recommend them to their friends. A couple of people who host podcasts, they’ll talk about, Oh wait, that’s it. And that’s the crazy thing. Like, as I said in the previous segment, when we talked about the folks at junior pro books, you know, Thatcher wine is a friend of mine, like I’m a big fan of their brand. I’m a big fan of their coming. He has no idea. We’re talking about this on the show right now because I intentionally have not reached out to him. And instead, I’m just going to share the episode with him when it comes out, because here’s the secret friends and anybody who works in customer experience knows this. But I bet you’re frustrated because your boss and your boss’s boss don’t necessarily get this.

Speaker 2 (12:37):
It is incredibly difficult to directly draw ROI to this kind of activity. Because the return on this investment of doing the right thing probably doesn’t happen next month. It probably doesn’t happen next quarter. It may happen weeks from now or months from now or years from now. And you know, even talking about this story makes me think, gosh, it’s been a while since I’ve sent someone a gift from Juniper books, I should go do that. Right? So there are huge opportunities here. So what can we learn from this great example as set by Thatcher wine and his team at Jenner pro books? Well, friends, mistakes are going to happen. Even if you’ve been in business for almost two decades doing the same thing, the occasional error will slip through the cracks. How you respond, not only shows how much you prioritize and care about your customers, but it’s an indicator of whether you’ll still be in business 20 years from now, which I think is going to be the case for Juniper books. If you’re listening to our show and love books, like we do make sure to go over and show the fine folks at Juniper books, some love you can find the books. Everyone should own subscription series and lots of other beautifully designed books@juniperbooks.com.

Speaker 3 (13:57):
Sometimes a remarkable experience deserves deeper investigation. We dive into the nitty gritty of customer interactions and dissect how and why they happen. Join us while we’re dissecting the experience.

Speaker 2 (14:14):
Loyal listeners know Dan, you were previously the senior director of global social media for McDonald’s. And I came across something recently and thought to myself, self. I bet Dan will be able to share a unique perspective on this situation. You know, friends, it’s okay to talk to yourself. It’s not okay to answer yourself. So true. So true. Alright. I’m getting nervous here because you know, our listeners probably also know that working at McDonald’s is not my favorite experience in my whole life. So what do you got for me? But the fries are great. Okay. I think you’re actually going to like this one, Dan. So here’s the scoop recently, a young woman who worked for Chick-fil-A made a tic talk video about a secret menu hack now. Oh, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa. Did the words tick tock video, just come out of your mouth, Joey.

Speaker 2 (15:10):
Yes, they did. My friend. Yes they did. Oh, wait, does this mean that you’re on tick tock? Oh, absolutely not. Absolutely. I got a long streak of not being on social media that I have to uphold. I am not on talk, but I heard about this story because of how it connects to customer and employee experience. And I went to track down more details and in doing so I learned this Anna was a 19 year old Chick-fil-A employee had just finished her shift one day and afterwards she got into the car and got on tick TechTalk and shared a secret hack that would allow customers to order the seasonal mango passion tea, lemonade year round. And she also shared with the way that you could get a large for 4 cents cheaper than the regular size drink. So here’s a little clip of what she said.

Speaker 4 (16:05):
Okay. So I work at Chick-Filet. So I’m here to give you all the tips and tricks on secret menu items, um, how to get things cheaper and just all that. Okay. And this is only a part one. Let me start off with the seasonal drinks. Um, okay. Someone’s washing your Cortez. Wow. Okay. Anyways, um, so I wanna start with the seasonal drinks. So right now we have a mango passion tea, uh, basically the large, it’s not really a large. So what you’re going to order is going to order an Arnold Palmer, which is a tea and lemonade mixture. You’re going to ask her for pumps and Mingo by doing that, you literally get double the mango passion tea for literally the same price you can kind of see here. But Arnold Palmer is two 69 and a large mega passion T is two 65. It’s the same price in part two. I’ll tell you guys about secret frost.

Speaker 2 (16:55):
All right. So this is interesting. Uh, you know, she points out the, the kind of price difference and kind of remixing some of the drinks. And it’s always nice to see a employee get excited about where they work and want to share that with others. And, you know, there’s this hack culture that people seem to be glomming on to where if we can just, you know, if we can find a way to hack something, it’s fine. So I’m guessing though that I dunno things maybe got out of hand a little bit, otherwise I’m not quite sure why you’re sharing this just yet. Well, as usual, Dan you’re absolutely right. So this little tick tock video went viral and while I’m not sure how many people saw it right away, estimates are that it has been seen by millions of people it’s received over 300,000 hearts, which I guess is like the tech talk of likes and has almost a thousand comments at the time we’re recording this.

Speaker 1 (17:54):
Well, you cannot buy that type of engagement on social media. So Chick-fil-A, must’ve been thrilled.

Speaker 2 (18:01):
No, you would think that’s the case, but sadly that wasn’t the case and his boss wasn’t as thrilled as you or I might’ve been. In fact, she posted a second video to tech talk less than a week after the first video with some music playing and the captions, while you’re hearing this music in the background, relate her experience of making the video, becoming tic talk famous and being super excited about it. When the video goes viral and then receiving a call from her boss to turn in her uniform because she was fired.

Speaker 1 (18:34):
Oh no. Oh no, they did it.

Speaker 2 (18:37):
Yes, they did.

Speaker 1 (18:39):
That. Second video went viral too. Oh my,

Speaker 2 (18:42):
Your friend did it indeed to this date. It’s estimated to have been seen by millions and millions of people with over 250,000 hearts and over 1500 comments. So it actually has more comments than the first video. The second video has attracted more attention than the first one did. Okay.

Speaker 1 (19:02):
Okay. So you’re right. I have a couple of things just to say about this.

Speaker 2 (19:05):
I have an opinion about this and let’s be candid as a general rule. Chick-fil-A usually gets the customer experience, right? Like people rave about how friendly the Chick-fil-A employees are and how they come out in line at the drive through to take care of you. And everybody seems to always have a smile on their face and be thank you left. And right. Like most people usually don’t have a bad experience with the staff at Chick-fil-A. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (19:31):
I think the story here is actually not about Chick-fil-A. I agree. Let’s take a step back and let’s talk about secret menu items because this is actually a thing across the fast food and fast casual industry. And I did get to hear a lot about this at McDonald’s because I was working in social media. So I got to see all sorts of stuff, by the way, Joey, the things people do in a McDonald’s

Speaker 2 (19:57):
Well, the thing is anyone, any of it, any faster

Speaker 1 (19:59):
Food or fast casual restaurant, like I agree with you, that’s a story for another day. But one of the things that I figured out really quickly

Speaker 2 (20:08):
Was that the people that were sharing

Speaker 1 (20:11):
You hacks is really what we called them were some of our biggest fans. And some of these menu hacks were super creative. Some of them were really out there. I will never forget. There was one there’s two that I remember there was one guy that ordered a sandwich where he had one bun with every single piece of protein that McDonald’s offered. So there was like a fried chicken breast and a hamburger and a Mick rib and a sausage Patty from the big mafia lovers pizza. It was a heart attack. I would say that doesn’t sound good at all. Yeah. And then there was another guy, uh, this is a guy

Speaker 2 (20:55):
It’s always a guy. And I don’t say that to be a sexist. I say that because as a general rule,

Speaker 1 (20:59):
You guys are the weird ones. Yeah. Well, so when the, when McDonald’s installed the kiosks, there was an initially a, I don’t want to say an error, but basically something wrong, a little glitch. And it allowed you to essentially add up to, I think, 30 of any item on a sandwich. So a guy walked in and he said, okay, I want a hamburger. And I’d like 30 patties of beef. And I’d like 30 slices of cheese. And I’d like 30 pieces of lettuce and 30 tomatoes and 30 squirts of mustard and all this sort of, and all of this stuff. And the thing ended up pretty dang expensive sandwich. But it also, they ended up bringing it out to him on like three trays because the sandwich would be huge. Right. But that video went viral and you know, there were drink recipes and Starbucks has a huge secret menu. My favorite, by the way, is the peppermint Patty frappuccino. I don’t know why they don’t put that on the menu. Cause it is awesome.

Speaker 2 (22:02):
Well, and I know I’m not a Starbucks guy, but like in and out, burger is famous for its secret menu. You know, you can order a burger animal style. If you order it protein style, you don’t get the bond. It’s the gluten free version. It comes wrapped in lettuce. You know, a lot of these restaurants have these things and it’s not a huge deal. Like I understand in this particular scenario, Anna was suggesting something that would quote unquote, caused them to lose money. Now, granted it’s 4 cents and I don’t know about you, but I’d be willing as a business owner to shave 4 cents off the profit. If it meant someone came in and, or placed an order that they wouldn’t otherwise.

Speaker 1 (22:43):
I mean, look, if they, first of all, I it’s a little more than the 4 cents because I think what she was saying was you get more ingredients for your course out, but even so, uh, so what’s the worst that happens. A billion people come in and order it. I don’t think that’s a big, big problem. So the whole idea behind the secret menus or these hacks is that people figure stuff out right. When I was at discover and I worked in the rewards area, one of the things I found out is that if there’s a way to game the system, people will find it. And so we do the best we can to not allow people to really take advantage. But in this case with this employee and with the case of these special menu items or secret menu items, these are usually people that love your brand. They’re not trying to screw you over. They are trying to love you more. And so the surprising part about this story was that the company wasn’t thrilled that this video went viral and brought a lot of attention to a product offering that they have. Heck I didn’t even know they serve Arnold

Speaker 2 (23:46):
Palmers at Chick-fil-A and now I know you’re excited to go on. No, I totally agree with you, Dan. And I think the interesting thing about this is I can understand as a business owner, having an employee that does something that you’re less than thrilled about. Like I can try to put myself into the shoes of the franchise owner or the manager. Who’s like, Oh my gosh, this is bringing more heat than we would have liked. This is causing issues with corporate, et cetera, et cetera, whatever was going on. But to me, that’s not a let’s fire, the employee conversation. That’s a, how can we take this enthusiastic, energetic employee who is on a platform that most adults are trying to figure out, let alone actually create viral videos on and harness her ability and her personality to promote the brand in a way that we aren’t okay with.

Speaker 2 (24:41):
You know, I mean most brands have to just accept the fact that they can’t control the brand message on social media, the same way they can in their say, print advertising or what their marketing agency, you can’t control, what customers are going to do. And you really can’t even control what employees are going to do. But if the employee is going to do something, don’t fire them, redirect that focus and that energy into something, because what, the number of followers that she had, you could almost see where she did a weekly show on some type of a behind the scenes story at Chick-fil-A that would have built a huge following. And that’s

Speaker 1 (25:17):
Actually what I recommended to McDonald’s when we started seeing these secret menu items was let’s lean into this. Let’s be in on the joke because people are going to love the brand personality for that. Right. And again, I can’t see a downside, even I sorta get why, you know, you’re saying that it’s possible that the Boston may not have liked this, but I’m not seeing the business downside. To be honest with you.

Speaker 2 (25:45):
I think it’s a, it’s an old school way of thinking. I mean, and let’s be candid. We’re where these things, that big of secrets. I mean, for years McDonald’s talked about their special sauce, right? The secret special sauce. And wasn’t it. I mean, you know this better than I do, but wasn’t it McDonald’s Canada like did something with Twitter where they shared the recipe to the secret sauce.

Speaker 1 (26:06):
Yeah. I mean, they shared a lot of secrets because they had a program where they basically said to their customers, ask us any question, nothing’s off limits. We’ll answer it. And my favorite, one of those videos they showed, somebody said, why do your sandwiches always look better on TV than they do in real life? Which we probably all asked that question. And they went behind the scenes of a TV, commercial shoot. And they introduced you to the food. What was his name? What was his title? It was like the food artist. It was a food artist. Thank you, Joey. I remember got it

Speaker 2 (26:40):
From our buddy mutual friend, Marcus Sheridan. Who’s famous for the, they ask you answer book and methodology, which McDonald’s was following.

Speaker 1 (26:48):
Yes. And this guy had, I remember a tweezers and was placing Sesame seeds on the bun, just so that’s a job. Uh, so, but, but yeah, I mean, and you know what, that was a successful campaign. Big and people looked at McDonald’s Canada, cause McDonald’s us stubbornly wouldn’t do it. But McDonald’s Canada. They looked at them with more trust. They looked at them as a company that they wanted to do business with more or eat at more because, because they were open and honest and, and, and so again, if people are going to come in and order off the menu, or if you’re a retailer and they’re going to buy certain products and use them for ways that they weren’t to 10 intended that’s okay. You know, it, they’re still shopping with you. They’re spending money with you. And really, as I said, at the beginning, these tend to be some of your better customers. So I think the result of firing poor Ana here is that they may have also lost not just an employee, but they may have lost customers. Oh,

Speaker 2 (27:56):
Absolutely. Absolutely. And now they’ve got kind of a detractor of a former employee who interestingly enough, has filmed a third video where she basically goes through the entire menu, telling you all the ways to beat the men.

Speaker 1 (28:12):
I thought you were going to tell me that the third video was she’s now working at Popeye’s.

Speaker 2 (28:16):
Yeah, that would be great. I mean, let me tell you, if you’re out there employ this young woman, she like go hire her. So here’s the moral of the story friends. When you have a super engaged employee, especially one that is early in their career, recognize that mistakes may be made. And it’s up to you as the employer, not to compound these mistakes and instead to guide your employee to harness their talent into ways that allowed this employee to express themselves and their excitement for your brand, but ideally in ways that are a little bit more in alignment with your business operations, not to mention, if you have the opportunity to connect with your most rabid followers and fans, don’t miss it.

Speaker 1 (29:04):
Is it fake or is it fact the proverbial question, which we’re going to answer or rather our celebrity contestants are going to answer in the first of three games on our new game show, experience points

Speaker 2 (29:21):
In fake or fact contestants examine three similar experiences and try to figure out if each experience is real

Speaker 1 (29:29):
Fake. Every answer they get right is worth a hundred points.

Speaker 2 (29:33):
If they get all three answers, correct? They earn another 200 bonus points for a total possible score of five points, which converts into a $500 donation to the charity of their choosing. Thanks to our great friends at F techs.

Speaker 1 (29:51):
All right, Joey, let’s show him how this works. All right. Good idea, Dan,

Speaker 2 (29:56):
With one of our contestants, we talked about subscription programs. You know, those monthly boxes that you can subscribe to get a package to your house every month with a little moment of surprise and delight inside. And we asked, is there a subscription program for bacon?

Speaker 1 (30:15):
Yay. Exactly sure. Hope that one was fact,

Speaker 2 (30:20):
Let me ask, is it fake

Speaker 1 (30:22):
Or is it fact? Well, you’re going to have to tune into experience points to find out experience points is the new game show hosted by your friends, Dan Gingiss and Joey Coleman at brought to you by our friends, AV techs tune in to the video series and the podcast coming soon.

Speaker 2 (30:45):
We’re excited to give you an overview of an important book you should know about as well as share some of our favorite passages as part of our next book report

Speaker 1 (30:57):
For this week’s book report. We wanted to talk about a true friend of the show, an F O J friend of Joey and FOD friend of Dan, the one and only godfather of customer service, chef hiking, my brother from another mother, as we like to call each other. And chef just recently, rereleased a book that is called the cult of the customer. Now you may remember that we reviewed his last book, be amazing or go home and also the convenience revolution in previous episodes. And so when the culture of the customer came out, we asked chef to talk to us a little bit about it, especially this whole idea of releasing a book. So here’s chef giving us an overview of the cult of the customer. I love everybody has chef hiking here, customer service and experience expert. Very excited that my friends, Dan and Joey are allowing me to share some information about my latest book.

Speaker 1 (31:56):
The cult of the customer create an amazing customer experience that turns satisfied customers into customer evangelist. So the title, that’s an interesting title, the cult of the customer, by the way, this is an updated and revised edition from a book that I wrote almost 12 years ago, same title, but updated stats and facts, unless they were evergreen. We replaced all of it with stats and information that were less than a year or so old. So everything’s updated, got rid of some stories, changed up a few stories. And why is the title, the cult of the customer? Because that’s what the publisher said. They wanted the title to be. So what is the cult of the customer? This is actually a cult you want to belong to. So I believe that all customers go through five phases as they go from the beginning of their journey to their final phase, which is one where they’re amazed and love the company.

Speaker 1 (32:49):
So, uh, rather than use the word phase, we’re actually using the word cult. And I’ll explain why in just a few minutes when I read an excerpt from the book. So let’s talk about the five calls by the way. This is for everybody in any organization that deals with customers and that’s everyone. Because if you don’t have an outside customer, you have an internal customer and you need to take care of them as well. And also the book is not meant to be read. It’s meant to be used there’s exercises in the back of the book that you can use on and on the five cults, number one, it’s uncertainty customers. Aren’t sure what they’re getting into. Number two, they get into alignment with the company, as they start to do business with them. Number three, they experience what it is you want them to experience. Hopefully it’s good. And when they experience it over and over again, it becomes predictable. Then it’s ownership. So you go from uncertainty to alignment, to experience to the cult of ownership. And finally, if it’s a positive and predictable experience where customers say, I always enjoy doing business with them, that word always in front of anything. Good to describe you. That means they’re in the cult of amazement. That’s where you want to be with your customer.

Speaker 2 (33:57):
I gotta be honest, and I’m not sure that prior to our conversation, I have ever thought of a cult as a good thing. I mean, it’s, it’s pretty interesting. You know, cults have kind of a bad rap, but what I love about Shep’s description here is this idea of your external and internal customers and paying attention to the changes that a customer’s feeling as they navigate through the customer journey with you and what they need at each phase. I particularly like that idea of predictability turning into ownership, because I think all too often, companies tried to jump right to the ownership phase instead of delivering that consistent, predictable experience that actually builds ownership. And I think what’s interesting here is while this book may be a little bit older and he’s obviously refreshed it and added new stories and new stats, I don’t know that this principle of the power of creating a cult of customers has ever been more true than it is today.

Speaker 1 (35:01):
Yeah. And Chuck likes to talk a lot about consistency. And I do think that that is a facet of customer experience that is often overlooked. Customers expect things to work every time. Or if you have a certain part of your experience, they expect it to be the same. I mean, it’s why people go to certain fast food restaurants, cause the French fries are the same all the time and that’s what they expect. And so consistency can be a really good thing, obviously, unless it is consistently a bad experience, but he likes to talk about how creating that consistency starts to gain this fandom or, or cult as he likes to call it. So one of the things that I love that we do on the show, Joey, I think it’s one of the, one of my favorite things that we decided to do when we launched the show is that when we highlight books, we don’t just do an interview with the author like everybody else does, but we have them do the overview that you just heard.

Speaker 1 (36:03):
And then we ask them to read us their favorite passage. And so here is Shep Hyken author of the call to the customer, reading his favorite passage from his book. What is the cult of the customer? Well, if you’re in business, it’s the cult you want to belong to first things first. There’s nothing scary about the word cult. If you stop and think about it, you’ll realize you can find the word cult inside words that you already know and use without any problem like culture and cultivate cult comes from the Latin word Cultus, which originally meant care or tending. What we’re proposing in this book is creating a corporate culture that is so focused on taking care of and tending to employees and customers that the culture itself creates evangelists. Please bear in mind. As you make your way through this book, a cult is nothing more or less than a system of shared belief, interest or experience. In other words, a group of people with shared agreement about what they will be cultivating together. For example, you may be passionate about bike riding and like to hang out with other cyclists on weekends, strictly speaking, that’s a cult. You may enjoy action hero, comic books and attend comic book conventions twice a year. That too is a cult. When it comes to business, I’m in a cult and I hope you are too. It’s the cult of the customer,

Speaker 2 (37:27):
Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls. You come to experience this to learn about amazing, remarkable experiences and to learn about Latin words. I love it as somebody who took four years of Latin in high school, I loved that ship breaks down

Speaker 1 (37:41):
The Latin, where

Speaker 2 (37:44):
It comes from, you know, while my passage doesn’t have any Latin in it, it does come from a chapter. That’s all about what the journey looks like from the inside. And so here’s my favorite passage. A moment of magic and above average experience typically is the result of someone’s consistent and patient focus on the complex task of consistently delivering moments of magic to internal customers. So they can in turn consistently deliver moments of magic to external customers. Believe it, this kind of experience must be modeled internally before it can be delivered on a consistent basis across the organization. Oh my goodness. I love this passage. It’s so echoes something that I share with audiences all the time, which is we cannot expect our employees

Speaker 1 (38:36):
To deliver a remarkable customer experience. If they don’t know what one is, if they have no context for a remarkable experience themselves and the best way to give your employees a remarkable customer experience context is to deliberate, remarkable experiences to your employees. So you start it with the employees, you show them by the way you treat them and the way you communicate with them and the way you interact with them, what remarkable is. And then when you ask them to deliver a remarkable experience to your customers, they understand what’s being asked, they’re familiar with this. They know what it looks like. They know what it feels like. And as a result, they’re able to do it. I totally agree. And you know, the opposite of that is when you walk into a fast food restaurant and the person behind the counter looks at you, like you’re interrupting their otherwise pleasant day by wanting to place an order.

Speaker 1 (39:28):
And so when your employees are miserable, they’re going to provide a miserable experience to your customer. So it makes all the sense in the world. Now I conveniently chose a favorite passage from a chapter called what the journey looks like from the outside. Ooh, an alternative perspective. I like it. So here we go, you make the right promise and you follow through specifically, you brand the experience and bring your customers into alignment. With that experience, then you deliver on the promise over and over again, through this repeated and predictable satisfaction, your customer’s confidence increases. Eventually you develop a network of evangelists who create a community of believers for your organization. I said before that Shep likes the word consistency. And that was consistent across both of our favorite passages. Is that doing things over and over the right way is going to lead to a better experience.

Speaker 1 (40:26):
And I talk about something very specific to this when I speak as well, which I think is why we both picked these passages. Why they spoke to us is that when you create remarkable experiences, that ends up your best sales and marketing strategy. And here’s why, because you get people to talk about your brand instead of you having to talk about your brand, let’s face it, Joey. We all know you’re awesome, but it’s your sounds a lot better when I say you’re awesome. Then when you say you’re awesome, right? I think you’re awesome. Awesome. Shep. Hyken awesome. This book is awesome. Friends, go out and pick up a copy of chef’s book. The cult of the customer on Amazon at your local indie bookstore, wherever fine books are sold and learn how to turn your customers into a cult.

Speaker 5 (41:22):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (41:23):
Thanks for joining us for another episode of experience this we know there are tons of podcasts to listen to magazines and books, to read reality TV, to watch. We don’t take for granted that you’ve decided to spend some quality

Speaker 3 (41:34):
Time listening to the two of us. We hope you enjoyed our discussions. And if you do, we’d love to hear about it. Come on over to experience this show.com and let us know what segments you enjoyed, what new segments you’d like to hear. This show is all about experience, and we want you to be part of the experience this show. Thanks again for your time. And we’ll see you next week for more experience.

Speaker 5 (41:59):
Yes.