CX Press

There are so many great customer experience articles to read but who has the time? We summarize them and offer clear takeaways you can implement, starting tomorrow. Enjoy this segment of CX-PRESS where we read the articles so you don’t need to!

Episode 129 – Video Energizing or Video Fatigue?

Join us as we discuss enticing your customers to come back after COVID, videos that capture your brand spirit, and managing camera fatigue in a video-based business environment.

Flying, Speedriding, and Zooming – Oh My!

Referenced in the Show

• Delta Airlines Entices Flyers with Enhanced Rewards

• MUST WATCH: Speedriding Through An Alpine Resort – From Avoriaz With Love – by Red Bull

• Citi Creates ‘Zoom-Free Fridays’ to Combat Pandemic Fatigue – by Anna Schaverien in the New York Times

Host Contact Information

Email Dan: Dan@dangingiss.com

Tweet Dan Gingiss: @DGingiss

Email Joey: JoeyC@JoeyColeman.com

DanGingiss.com

JoeyColeman.com

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Learn more about our Season 7 Partner – Solvvy – The NextGen Chatbot

Episode Transcript

Download an unedited transcript of Episode 129 here or read it below:

Joey Coleman (00:05):
Welcome to Experience This!

Dan Gingiss (00:08):
The podcast that celebrates remarkable customer experiences and inspires you to stand out from the competition by wowing your customers.

Joey Coleman (00:17):
Each episode, we bring you a healthy dose of inspiring stories, funny interactions, and practical takeaways, marketing and customer experience thought leader, Dan Gingiss…

Dan Gingiss (00:30):
shares the mic with customer retention and employee experience expert, Joey Coleman, helping you to get people talking about your business.

Joey Coleman (00:40):
So get ready because it’s time to Experience This!

Joey Coleman (00:48):
Get ready, for another episode of the Experience This Show.

Dan Gingiss (00:53):
Join us as we discuss enticing your customers to come back after COVID videos that capture your brand spirit and managing camera fatigue in a video-based business environment.

Joey Coleman (01:08):
Flying, Speedriding, and Zooming – oh my!

Joey Coleman (01:15):
With a pandemic sweeping the globe, and shifting the way organizations interact with their customers, many of the old ways of operating just don’t work anymore. As we all navigate a COVID-19 world, it’s time to Redesign the Experience.

Joey Coleman (01:34):
It’s been a long time Dan, but it’s time to talk about flying again.

Dan Gingiss (01:40):
Ahhhh, I’ve been waiting for this. Have you been on a plane?

Joey Coleman (01:42):
I actually have not, but I’m starting to think about it a lot more and will likely be on a plane sometime in the not too distant future. Vaccines are up. COVID infections are down. Events are starting to happen again. It’s exciting. And what I wanted to talk about is all of the businesses that have seen their loyal customers, who while staying loyal, just haven’t been doing as much business in the last year.

Dan Gingiss (02:08):
Oh, you mean like our friends at the airlines?

Joey Coleman (02:10):
Yes indeed, like the airlines. And as anyone who listens to Experience This knows…

Dan Gingiss (02:16):
Wait a minute! I think I know what you’re going to say. You like Delta don’t you?!

Joey Coleman (02:19):
No, I don’t like Delta, Dan. I love Delta! I love flying on Delta for a host of reasons, but because of changes in the event industry over the last year, I haven’t needed to fly to any of the conferences or events that I normally would to give speeches at. I’ve been doing all my presentations remotely as have you. And now, as businesses are starting to think about hosting in-person events and conferences this summer, and especially into the fall, I’m getting a lot of inquiries for these upcoming events, which means naturally I’m thinking about flying again. Now that being said, you know, who else was thinking about me flying again, Dan?

Dan Gingiss (02:56):
Uh, your wife, your kids. I don’t know? Who?

Joey Coleman (03:01):
You are. Correct. All of those people are, but I’m talking specifically about the fantastic folks at Delta airlines. The reason I know they’re thinking about this is because I received an email this week outlining some fantastic new bonuses that they have to entice fliers to come back now as noted by Dwight James, who is the Senior Vice President of Customer Engagement and Loyalty and the CEO of Delta Vacations, and I quote, “[o]ur customers, supported us through the most difficult year in our history. And as we welcome them back, we want to help their travel count for even more. We sincerely appreciate how much our customers value their status and these industry leading offers will ensure Medallion Members can continue to enjoy those benefits for flights now, and in the future.” Now the message went on to detail, a series of new enhancements to the Delta loyalty program, including earning up to 75% more miles towards your medallion status on nearly every Delta flight, earning miles toward your medallion status with award travel (this is a first ever in the airline industry – normally if you use your miles to get a free ticket, you don’t get to get miles for that free ticket. Now they’re actually going to let you accrue miles on your award tickets) and all of these bonuses will be “credited to customer’s accounts for a seamless experience.”

Dan Gingiss (04:31):
American Airlines… I hope you’re listening because you’re going to be next I suspect! But Hey, I mean, I love it. I’m a, I’m a rewards guy spent a lot of time in loyalty marketing and you know, those are fantastic. They’re rich, uh, which basically means I hate to break your bubble, they’re probably going to be temporary, but I think it’s a great time for temporary richness, if you will, because you know, people are – even frequent flyers like us are still hesitant to go back to flying. We probably won’t go back to as much flying as we were doing at, you know, at least for a while, maybe ever. And so the airlines have some work to do to get people back in their seats. And I think as usual Delta seems to be leading the way in terms of enticing people.

Joey Coleman (05:21):
You know, Dan, I feel the same way. And I think the interesting thing about this outreach is it’s coming at a time where a lot of frequent flyers like you like me are just really starting to seriously think about this. Like to be honest, last summer, you couldn’t have paid me to get on an airplane. And that’s not a criticism of any of the airplanes I love flying. It’s just, it didn’t make sense with the pandemic. But now as things start to change now, as people start to consider it, what I think is fantastic about the timing of this message is that as I’m starting to think about, they’re in my inbox saying, Hey, by the way, when you’re ready, no pressure, but when you’re ready, we’re going to do some amazing things for you. Now what’s interesting is this all comes on the heels of the things Delta did last year to make the experience better for the frequent flyers – including being the first airline to extend 2020 flyer status into 2021, and the only airline to offer rollover status miles, which are kind of known as MQMS in Delta airlines, speak to give customers a headstart on their 2022 status.

Dan Gingiss (06:31):
So you’re saying that miles you earned before the pandemic in 2020 are counting now?

Joey Coleman (06:39):
Not only are they counting for my status, now they are actually rolling over and counting towards my next status. What Delta did is they said, look, the pandemic has changed everything, whatever status you have in 2020, we’re automatically giving you that status in 2021, regardless of how you fly in 2020. Oh. And by the way, if you do happen to fly in 2020 or 2021, any extra miles that you’ve accrued across those two years will kick into your status for 2022. So they are doing these amazing things to really reward people for doing the behavior they want, which is getting on airplanes. They also made a bunch of other improvements to their upgrade certificates. They made the more rewarding and easier to use. Their companion tickets – so any companion tickets that were going to expire in 2020, they extended to 2021. And they just announced that all of those are being extended out to 2022. So all these companions tickets that I had, that I would’ve been frustrated that I wasn’t able to use because we weren’t flying. They’re like, man, don’t worry about it. You have till the middle of 20, 22 to use those as well as extending other deadlines around using your benefits. So they could take into account that delays in people’s travel plans that have happened over the last year.

Dan Gingiss (07:55):
Yeah. Well, and basically we talk about knowing your customer and we’ve talked about that at no time in the past, and hopefully the future, will there ever have been more clarity about understanding what your customers are going through because everybody went through the same thing at the same time. And so I think Delta is smart in the sense that, you know, they understand they got to get people back on planes. They understand that customers like you, who are the, I dunno, what are you the triple diamond deleted, double, double dare, whatever status is. I mean, these are the people they really need back and their most loyal customers. And you know, they’re what I like about these examples is they’re very timely right there. They understand what frequent travelers who pay attention to this stuff MQMS and miles and, you know, qualifying dollars and all this sort of stuff that they understand what you’re thinking about. And the fact that, Oh man, I traveled for three months in 2020, and I was well on my way. And then I lost them all. And, and they’re addressing that almost before. It becomes a frustration, which I think is great.

Joey Coleman (09:05):
I couldn’t agree more, Dan. And here’s the interesting thing and why I wanted to talk about this. This doesn’t just apply to the airlines. Every business on the planet over the last year that had any type of in-person interaction with their customers – whether you had a retail store, whether you had an event venue that people came to hotels, airlines, other forms of a mass transportation gathering places, you name it, movie theaters, anywhere where people came to visit, they’re now going to start thinking about going there again – but people are going to be anxious. And they’re going to be anxious for good reason. We’re not judging the anxiousness that people have. And a lot of business owners are like, ah, already come, come visit our store. We need the business. We want you back. Everything’s clean, everything’s safe. We’re good to go. The moral, that story here is we are going beyond the medical realities and now we’re starting to dip into the psychological realities of our customer base. And so I think what Delta is doing is really leading the way by to your point, being rich with what they’re offering and going above and beyond, you know, they, you notice they don’t say that these are going to be the rules forever. They’re just saying, Hey, for the, basically the second half of 2021, we’re going to do a bunch of things that will excite you to get back on planes. So what’s the moral of the story here. Let your customers know that you’re ready to welcome them back to in-person interactions. Welcome them on their schedule. Not your schedule. Consider some gracious enticements to get them to come back sooner rather than later, or at least to feel well provided for when they do come back. You don’t need to make these changes permanently, but take some steps now to kind of juice things up and make it exciting for them so that they come back extend any deadlines that you have friends pandemics. Aren’t the time for policies. I said this on the show a year ago, as we entered the challenging COVID era. And here we are a year later, and guess what? This same message holds true. Pandemics aren’t the time for policies. So switch your policies to be even more customer centric and more customer focused than they were before. And if you do all these things, your customers will come back in the weeks and months to come.

Joey Coleman (11:27):
We love telling stories and sharing key insights you can implement or avoid based on our experiences. Can you believe that This Just Happened?

Joey Coleman (11:41):
You know, Dan, last week I saw a video online and then within about 36 hours, I’d say no, fewer than 10 of my friends emailed a link to this video. Now I know if I were to ask you to guess what this video is about, I would be opening myself to all kinds of ridicule and jokes that you might have. So let me just say this…

Dan Gingiss (12:03):
Who me?

Joey Coleman (12:03):
Surprise, surprise! Let me just say this. The video was of something called ski riding. Now I had never seen ski riding before ski riding is what happens evidently based on this video, when you put on a pair of skis and you’re wearing a paraglider, which is like a controllable parachute that you can inflate from the ground as opposed to jumping out of an airplane. So this is, think of a combination of paragliding, i.e. parachuting, through a mountain ski town, while you’re also wearing skis, doing stunts and tricks.

Dan Gingiss (12:44):
This sounds like a X Games sport or something like that…

Joey Coleman (12:47):
It does sound like an X Game sport, which is probably not surprising then that the sponsor of this video was actually red bull. Oh, red bull. Yeah. Well, they’ve had some interesting stunts in the past they have, and this is kind of the newest piece. So what I’d like to do ladies and gentlemen, I know this is an audio based show. So it’s going to be little weird to talk about a video without you having seen the video. So what I’d like you to do is press pause, go to the shownotes at ExperienceThisShow.com and at the very top, you’re going to see a big link to the Red Bull ski riding video. And I want you to watch the video. Now, if you happen to be driving or working out right now, and you’re not going to do it, I’m going to play for you the first minute of the video with some narration, but please I’ve never implored with such a emphasis. Go watch this video. It is insane. Just even what you’re about to witness the feet of human extreme sports nature that is captured in this video, that alone is we’re seeing not to mention what we’re going to talk about. All right? So here’s the deal. When you go to the video, here’s what you’ll see.

Joey Coleman (14:04):
You hear the wind blowing through your air. As the skier comes over, does a loop. He’s flying through the air. There’s a drone behind him tracking down the mountain as he goes to over trees. And now he’s cutting between two buildings. That sound, you just heard that one, and that one, that’s him actually running into the sides of buildings with his skis. Now here that like the laser sound, that’s his skis on the metal that is the chairlift, not actually on the chairs, but on the metal cables, connecting the chairs. This is insane. He’s parachuting down. He just almost hit some birds. And now off the railing and he’s going off the snow with the top of buildings. Now, his feet are actually on the ground. The first time he’s grabbing the parachute and he’s bundling it up into a ball in front of him. Now he’s tucking down and he’s going faster and faster. Oh my goodness. He just went through an igloo, jumped out of the other side, do a flip he’s firing off. Oh my God, she’s got a can of Red Bull. He’s drinking red bull. He just threw it in the recycling bin. Now he’s, reinflating the parachute you skiing around. Okay. Oh my goodness. We could go on. I have given you a minute and six seconds of this video that is over two minutes long. It is crazy. It’s crazy to see this now, why would I want to tell you about a video? Because the video captured so much excitement, so much spirit for the brand and showed me things that I didn’t even think was possible. And as a result, I wanted to talk about what I had seen. Now. Here’s the crazy thing. Who is the video for stopping to remember the beginning of this conversation? When Dan said, Oh, it sounds like an X games type of thing. And I told you the brand, we’ve only mentioned the brand once, but I’d be willing to bet you remember who it was. Dan, who is the brand?

Dan Gingiss (15:59):
I’m going to go with red bull for 200.

Joey Coleman (16:04):
That would be red bull.

Dan Gingiss (16:05):
So Dan, are you a red bull drinker? What do you know about red bull? I am not a red bull drinker. I tasted it once. It is, let’s just say not for me. And, uh, but I, I associate it with extreme sports with, with people that are outdoor Z, you know, doing all these sports, I kind of like to keep my feet on the ground. And so I kinda, I, I associated with people who are more willing to have their feet off the ground. Let’s put it that way.

Joey Coleman (16:33):
A little crazy, a little adventurous. And here’s the reason I wanted to talk about this. Red Bull has made an aspirational video. Even if you never have any intention, Dan, of putting skis on and attaching yourself to a parachute and speedriding through an Alpine town that appears abandoned in the video, doing flips in the air, bouncing off buildings, sliding down the cables of a chairlift at a ski resort, you can appreciate what you saw. And I think the takeaway that I had as it relates to customer experience is we talk so often about the features and the benefits of our products. You know, this is the very elements of our products. You know, here are the components of our service. Here’s what it’s going to do for your business. And we don’t as often talk about the aspirational aspects of our products and our services, what type of people use our products and services? What type of people do our customers become because of our products and services. And if we think back to commercials, you may have seen in the past from Red Bull, they drank it in these little wings appear and they kind of float off the characters. The whole idea is that red bull takes you to a different level of the human experience that you didn’t think was possible.

Dan Gingiss (17:58):
Yeah, it’s very brand, right. I mean, I remember the viral video around the guy that was jumping out of the, what was it, a rocket ship, any, uh, he jumped out of it with

Joey Coleman (18:09):
Exactly. Yeah. They basically put them up in a balloon into space and he jumped out and fell all the way back down to earth.

Dan Gingiss (18:17):
It definitely has an element of crazy to it, but that’s the brand. And I think that today, I always talk about something slightly different, but I, I talk about being witty and being humorous and those are two different things and that there’s only certain brands and I think of brands like Taco Bell or Wendy’s that kind of have permission to be humorous. And unfortunately, most of us don’t work for Taco Bell or Wendy’s, it’s our brand probably doesn’t have that permission.

Joey Coleman (18:44):
And then why do you think they have permission? Because I think that’s an interesting way to put it. I have an idea of why they have permission. Why do you think they have permission to be that way?

Dan Gingiss (18:54):
Well, first of all, I think their target audience is, is fairly specifically at a younger, a younger type of person, a millennial and younger, uh, who appreciates that kind of a humor. And I think over time, actually, I think they’ve built that permission and built the reputation over time of being humorous, funny brands, much as Red Bull has built this reputation of being, you know, an extreme sports, loving, daredevil type brand, which again, your listeners listening your brand probably isn’t that, but that’s okay because your brand is probably something else is really what I’m saying.

Joey Coleman (19:34):
Agreed. And I think when you say, you know, they have permission to do that. I think part of the reason I agree with you wholeheartedly, that they built that equity over time with their target markets and what their customers, that that’s kind of the edginess or that’s the aspect of their brand spirit. But I also think they made a decision to go in and just be who they were. To just show up fully without any apology for what their brand was. We’ve all come to appreciate the brand of Wendy’s on social media. We’ve all come to appreciate the extreme nature of Red Bull, whether it’s in their videos, whether it’s in their sponsorships, the crazy stunts they do, you know, kind of the feature film-type level production that they create. And I think the conversation that I’d love our listeners to have is to meet with your teams and talk about what is the aspirational version of our brand. When people use our products, when people use our services, what does it allow them to be? And really extend that out beyond just the benefits to speak more to this type of person uses our product. You know, Dan, you, and it is often back and forth about Apple vs. PC, right? And I am a 100% Apple guy. Through and through. I know you use a lot of Apple products as well, but I think Apple has basically created a brand that people take pride in being an Apple person, because Apple is owning the brand and the aesthetic of their videos, the aesthetic of their ads, the messaging of their communications, all align with that brand in the same way that red bulls aligned with their brand with this crazy skiing video. So what do we do from here? I’m not suggesting that you take your CEO, strap them into a parachute, put some skis on them and throw them down the side of a mountain. Okay. What I am suggesting is that you think of creative ways to capture your brand spirit. As much as you create advertising and things that are designed to promote your brand and promote your service, I would love it. If you would start to consider creating aspirational communications – things that capture your brand spirit, promote that and let people know who they can be when they experience your brand.

Joey Coleman (21:56):
Almost everyone has interacted with chatbots but all too often, it’s been a bad experience. In MythBusters – presented by Solvvy – we explore a common myth about CX chatbots and see how the right technology can create a positive experience every time.

Joey Coleman (22:20):
Today’s myth about chatbots? Chatbots, can’t drive revenue for your business. At this point, CX and support leaders probably understand that an intelligent chat bot and automation platform can help deliver huge savings and productivity improvements. A next gen chat bot instantly resolves 50% plus of customer issues before support tickets are needed and frees up agents to handle the most challenging issues.

Dan Gingiss (22:48):
But can a chat bot actually drive additional revenue for your business? Why? Yes, it can. With the next gen chatbot companies now have a powerful tool to help would be customers quickly find what they’re looking for, enabling better and faster purchases. Chatbots handle product or service questions for shoppers and provide intelligent recommendations based on the chat or other contextual clues. Your customers will love not having to hunt around a website to find what they need. And some chatbots let you drop items right into a shopping cart or buy directly that’s instant chat bot revenue.

Joey Coleman (23:24):
For your current customers or subscribers, how cool would it be if your support chat bot was able to help them add additional software licenses, right? When they ask or help them upgrade from a free meme account to a paid account.

Dan Gingiss (23:39):
Or help them take advantage of an extended deadline and a companion certificate on Delta Airlines to get you to book your flight?!

Joey Coleman (23:45):
Exactly. If your team handles these sorts of critical transactions, you know, they can often result in phone calls that take up a ton of agent time. And the intelligent chat bot means faster transactions for your customers, lower agent involvement, and you guessed it more revenue from your team.

Dan Gingiss (24:05):
And that’s another myth busted, thanks to our friends and podcast supporters at Solvvy – the NextGen chatbot. Find them at Solvvy.com. That’s S-O-L-V-V-Y.com.

Joey Coleman (24:21):
There are so many great customer experience articles to read, but who has the time?! We summarize them and offer clear takeaways you can implement starting tomorrow. Enjoy this segment of CX Press – where we read the articles so you don’t need to!

Joey Coleman (24:39):
Dan, I have a question for you. What is the greatest number of zoom calls you’ve done in a single day?

Dan Gingiss (24:47):
Oh boy. Well, I wouldn’t call it great by any stretch of imagination, but I’d say probably in the neighborhood of eight or nine is maybe my tops.

Joey Coleman (24:55):
Wow, wow. Yeah. I’m not sure what my record count number is for the number of calls. But the other day I got on my first Zoom call at 6:45 AM and I didn’t get off my last Zoom call of the day until 10:00 PM. And I had a total of 60 minutes throughout the day in frankly, 10 to 20 minute chunks, when I wasn’t on Zoom. And to be honest, that’s why today’s CX press story written by Anna Schaverien – who’s a reporter for the New York Times who covers news from her home base in London – resonated so much with me. The article is titled, “Citi creates Zoom-free Fridays to Combat Pandemic Fatigue,” and it details plans that the bank has to create one day each week, when workers can avoid being on camera for internal calls.

Dan Gingiss (25:45):
For a minute there, I thought you were talking about like an entire city, but you’re talking about the bank.

Joey Coleman (25:49):
Yes. Citi banks, Citi Group – they’re mostly known for Citibank.

Dan Gingiss (25:53):
Indeed, well, I love this idea. And in fact, because of a LinkedIn post recently from, uh, our mutual friend, Dorie Clark, I actually have started blocking Fridays off of my calendar for similar reasons is that you just sometimes need a day to get work done. And you know, one of the biggest reasons I left corporate America was I hated the meetings. I just didn’t like going back to back to back to back to all these meetings. And I always found that there were certain colleagues, who will remain nameless, that it’s like the meetings were what made them feel important.

Joey Coleman (26:28):
Meeings about meetings?!

Dan Gingiss (26:32):
Well, if they weren’t in the meeting, they didn’t feel like they were included. And so they were always, well, you know, invite me to the meeting. And I was like, don’t invite me to the meeting because when I’m in meetings, I’m not getting work done. And I think that’s what guessing this article kind of gets at is, man we could spend all day on Zoom, but are you actually being productive?

Joey Coleman (26:50):
A couple of things. And you’re, you’re spot on Dan and I to applaud our mutual friend, Dorie Clark friends, listeners, if you’re not familiar with Dorie and her fantastic books, her courses on LinkedIn Learning, her blog posts, her articles that she writes, she’s absolutely incredible! And you’re right. I think over the last year what’s happened is people have gotten comfortable with rolling out of bed, into a virtual meeting or spending all day. As I like to think of it sometime dressed very nicely on top with sweat pants on the bottom and this whole proliferation of video calls, whether that’s with our prospects, with our customers, even with our coworkers and our colleagues has just become exhausting. And that’s why Citi group decided to start this new end of week tradition. So going forward, they’re going to have zoom free Fridays. Now the bank’s new chief executive Jane Frazier announced this plan in a memo sent to employees: “Recognizing that workers have spent inordinate amounts of time of the past 12 months, staring at video calls, Citi is now encouraging its employees to take a step back from Zoom and other video conferencing platforms for one day every week.

Dan Gingiss (27:58):
You know, it’s funny. I just have to interrupt you for a second because I’ve been thinking about this, that Zoom is becoming one of those brands that is also a verb – like Google, or Xerox.

Joey Coleman (28:13):
Exactly. Yeah. It’s the most… prior to this, Google was the big one in our society that, uh, a brand name that it become a verb, and I agree with you in the last year, Zoom has become a verb.

Dan Gingiss (28:24):
And, and so we should say, just given that this is talking about Zoom-free Fridays, that obviously this is not a knock on Zoom. It’s really video conferencing free Fridays, but that’s a little harder to say.

Joey Coleman (28:34):
Absolutely. And I will say zoom, I think is probably a case study for the business that is handled the pandemic the best. Can you think of any other business, maybe like online grocery store delivery that has seen the huge growth that Zoom has seen over the course of the last year. And as much as we might be experiencing Zoom fatigue, they’ve done a remarkable job delivering a consistent, fantastic experience.

Dan Gingiss (29:00):
Yeah, absolutely. And there’s, I know some great people that work there. It’s a terrific company. So Frazier who’s the CEO of Citi group said in this article and I’m quoting “[t]he blurring of lines between home and work and the relentlessness of the pandemic Workday have taken a toll on our wellbeing. After listening to colleagues around the world, it became apparent. We need to combat the Zoom fatigue that many of us feel” end quote. The memo went on to note that going forward, no one at the company would have to turn their video on for any internal meetings on Fridays. External meetings with clients and regulators that need to happen via Zoom still will happen that way, even if it’s on a Friday.

Joey Coleman (29:39):
Yeah. So they’re still going to have video. They’re still going to, you know, use that as a tool. They just want to be more conscious about it. Now what’s interesting is this all too common phrase of zoom fatigue that we’ve heard about has led to some recent research from Stanford university that they talked about in the article and the research was trying to figure out why video calls feel so draining and in a peer reviewed article that was published in the journal Technology Mind and Behavior, professor Jeremy Bailenson, who’s the founding director of the Stanford Virtual Human Interaction Lab detailed several reasons why video calls can be so much more exhausting than in-person conversations, including: number one, the excessive eye contact involved in video calls. Number two, the unnatural situation of seeing ourselves on screen while we’re doing a video call and number three, having to stay in the same fixed spot during the call.

Dan Gingiss (30:34):
And I don’t know if this is the same study or not Joey, but I was listening to NPR today. And I heard about a study that also said that one of the after effects of spending so much time on video conferencing is that it is causing people to get too tired while they’re driving afterwards. And it’s causing so much fatigue that the people are now advising that if you’ve spent a lot of time in video conferencing, that you take a break, that you get your blood pumping before you get behind the wheel of a car.

Joey Coleman (31:07):
Oh wow. This looks like those “do not operate heavy machinery” warning signs, right?

Dan Gingiss (31:12):
Yeah. It’s, it’s really, really interesting. So this research also noted that because we have to put in more effort to make an interpret nonverbal communications video calls are more tiring. I think this might be the same research because that’s what this NPR story said as well. So Professor Bailenson said, quote, “[i]f you want to show someone that you’re agreeing with them, you have to do an exaggerated nod or put your thumb up. That adds cognitive load as you’re using mental calories in order to communicate” unquote. In fact, a key mistake that companies made when setting up work from home conditions last year was to treat zoom calls as the equivalent of face to face meetings, without considering that additional mental burden placed on workers and the downtime need to process what was said between the calls.

Joey Coleman (31:59):
So true, Dan, you know, at the end of the day, I’m not anti-video call. And I don’t think this article in this research is either what I do think we need to consider is giving ourselves and our colleagues and our co-workers permission not to do video calls, permission, to take more breaks, permission to set up Zoom-free days where we do no Zoom calls. I would argue that we should also have meeting free days where we have no meetings whatsoever so that we can have more time to actually be productive and get work done. And I’ll tell you one little tip in closing that I found has been incredibly effective. When somebody wants to set a schedule, a call, I’ve actually been starting to suggest that we do a walking call and the way the walk-in call works is instead of doing Zoom, why don’t we call each other on our cell phones and agree to walk around the block? It’s the socially distanced, you know, pandemic acceptable way to get a little exercise, to break some of that Zoom fatigue and to address that kind of pandemic video weight that we’ve all been experiencing. So as the pandemic begins to ebb, as we think about getting back to our offices, as we think about more in-person meetings, I encourage you to manage your own schedule and your habits more and make sure that you’re not causing your own fatigue.

Joey Coleman (33:20):
Thanks for joining us for another episode of Experience This! You are the best listener ever!

Dan Gingiss (33:31):
And since you listened to the whole show…

Joey Coleman (33:33):
Yay you!

Dan Gingiss (33:35):
We’re curious… Was there a specific part of this episode that you enjoyed the most? If so, it would mean the world to us if you could share it with a coworker, a friend, or someone that just loves listening to podcasts,

Joey Coleman (33:46):
And while you’re in the sharing mood, if you felt inclined to jump over to iTunes – or wherever you find your podcasts – and write us a review, we would so appreciate it. And when you do, don’t forget to let us know as we might have a little surprise for you.

Dan Gingiss (34:00):
Thanks again for your time and we’ll see you next week for more.

Joey Coleman (34:04):
Experience!

Dan Gingiss (34:05):
This!

Episode 127 – Secret Messages Create Special Connections

Join us as we discuss a secret message for an interstellar audience, making products that consumers actually want, and warning customers about bad things before they even realize it.

Code Breaking, Custom Creating, and Fraud Alerting – Oh My!

Referenced in the Show

• “NASA Sent a Secret Message to Mars. Meet the People Who Decoded It.” – by Kenneth Chang in the New York Times

• Pinduoduo’s Consumer-To-Manufacturer (C2M) Offerings

• American Express

Host Contact Information

Email Dan: Dan@dangingiss.com

Tweet Dan Gingiss: @DGingiss

Email Joey: JoeyC@JoeyColeman.com

DanGingiss.com

JoeyColeman.com

Subscribe to Experience This on Apple Podcasts

Learn more about our Season 7 Partner – Solvvy – The NextGen Chatbot

Episode Transcript

Download an unedited transcript of Episode 127 here or read it below:

Joey Coleman (00:05):
Welcome to Experience This!

Dan Gingiss (00:07):
The podcast that celebrates remarkable customer experiences and inspires you to stand out from the competition by wowing your customers.

Joey Coleman (00:17):
Each episode, we bring you a healthy dose of inspiring stories, funny interactions, and practical takeaways. Marketing and customer experience thought leader, Dan Gingiss…

Dan Gingiss (00:30):
shares the mic with customer retention and employee experience expert, Joey Coleman, helping you to get people talking about your business.

Joey Coleman (00:40):
So get ready because it’s time to Experience This!

Joey Coleman (00:49):
Get ready, for another episode of the Experience This! Show!

Dan Gingiss (00:54):
Join us as we discuss: a secret message for an interstellar audience, making products that consumers actually want, and warning customers about bad things before they even realize it.

Joey Coleman (01:09):
Code Breaking, Custom Creating, and Fraud Alerting – Oh my!

Joey Coleman (01:18):
There are so many great customer experience articles to read, but who has the time?! We summarize them and offer clear takeaways you can implement starting tomorrow. Enjoy this segment of CX Press, where we read the articles, so you don’t need to!

Joey Coleman (01:36):
Happy belated Easter, everyone.

Dan Gingiss (01:38):
And may none of you run into me in the store getting half off chocolate eggs.

Joey Coleman (01:46):
I love it. I did not know you had a chocolate egg addiction. That’s something new learned here in season seven of the Experience This Show!

Dan Gingiss (01:53):
Well, you know, I try to make sure that I don’t tell you everything about me, Joey – so you’re always learning.

Joey Coleman (01:59):
I like it. I like it. Well, given that it is the Easter season, I thought we could talk in today’s segment about Easter eggs.

Dan Gingiss (02:08):
Well, I think we might be hard pressed or hard-boiled pressed to do a whole segment on Easter eggs.

Joey Coleman (02:15):
Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness. Well, I agree, Dan, if we were talking about hard boiling eggs and dieing them different colors, yes. But what I’m talking about is the concept of Easter eggs that comes from video games and in that context, an Easter egg is a phrase that’s used to describe a message or an image or a feature that’s hidden in a video game of film or other usually electronic medium. Now, interestingly enough, this term was first used way back in 1979 by Steven Wright, who was then the director of software development in the Atari Consumer Division, to describe a hidden message in an Atari video game. But this concept of an Easter egg recently made international headlines again, based on something happened on Mars.

Dan Gingiss (03:01):
Wait, so now we’re talking about Easter eggs and Martians?!

Joey Coleman (03:04):
Exactly! Today’s CX Press story comes to us from an article by Kenneth Chang in the New York Times, titled “NASA Sent a Secret Message to Mars. Meet the People Who Decoded It.” Now a few weeks ago, NASA’s Perseverance Rover fell through the Martian atmosphere and while it was descending, a video camera on the spacecraft captured the deployment of the rover’s parachute. The parachute was decorated with splotches of a reddish orange and white. And during the subsequent news conference, Alan Chen, the engineer in charge of the landing system noted that his team hoped to inspire others. And I quote, “[S]ometimes we leave messages in our work for others defined for that purpose. So we invite you all to give it a shot and show your work.” Now this sparked Codebreakers around the world to take a closer look at the seemingly random pattern of perseverance is parachute trading insights on Twitter and informs on Reddit. A number of people eventually figured out the message.

Dan Gingiss (04:07):
What, what did it say?

Joey Coleman (04:08):
Well before I share what it said, Dan, I think it’s important to share how all of this came to be. Dr. Ian Clark works for NASA and was in charge of developing the Perseverance parachute.

Dan Gingiss (04:21):
Say that 10 times fast!

Joey Coleman (04:23):
Right? I’m pretty proud that I’ve said it twice in this segment without stumbling. Well, anyways, it turns out NASA is previous Rover called Curiosity used a similar parachute system when it landed on Mars back in 2012, but a failure of a prototype parachute for future missions left the engineers wanting to improve on the design. And while watching video of testing of one of the new parachutes for perseverance, Dr. Clark noticed that the checkerboard pattern of the canopy made it difficult to track how individual portions of the parachute, unfurled and inflated and he realized that a more visually distinct pattern would help them assess things more accurately while providing an opportunity to quote, “have a little fun with it.” So he asked the deputy project manager for the mission for permission to be creative and have some fun. And thankfully his manager said, “okay, just make sure it’s appropriate and couldn’t be misinterpreted.”

Dan Gingiss (05:23):
Okay, obviously guys, Joey’s going to hold out on this. What did it say question for a little bit longer, but I do think that what I’m supposed to jump in and say here is man, wouldn’t it be great if we all worked at companies where we were allowed to be creative and have some fun, because that brings out the passion in people that brings out a better work atmosphere. We love talking about how employee experience can affect the customer experience. And so I already liked this story because they’re like working on some really like serious, expensive stuff here. And yet they’re allowed to have fun and be creative.

Joey Coleman (05:58):
Dan, I couldn’t agree more. It’s that balance between doing important work, but having a good time while you’re doing it well, as it turns out, I want to reveal here what it actually said. The code on the parachute was binary. Now this is something that’s very familiar to. Computer engineers, it’s zeros and ones. There were 320 pieces of fabric with each orange section of the parachute referenced a number one and each white section referencing the number zero. And when the code was translated, it left an inspiring message on the inner rings of the parachute: Dare Mighty Things.

Dan Gingiss (06:34):
Dare Mighty things. I have to tell you if I were going to guess that I wouldn’t have guessed it, but it is pretty awesome.

Joey Coleman (06:44):
It’s pretty cool. When you think about it. And interestingly enough, there’s a little more background to this message. Dare Mighty Things” is a credo that’s often used at NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory in California and it comes from a speech that Teddy Roosevelt gave years ago. And I quote, “[F]ar better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.”

Dan Gingiss (07:18):
Well, may we never have to take rank with poor spirits again is what I say.

Joey Coleman (07:24):
Not to mention, this is a presidential speech. Are you moved?! We just, we don’t have presidential rhetoric like that, but I digress.

Dan Gingiss (07:30):
No, that’s true. That’s definitely true. So I’m wondering how long did this actually take for people to decipher the parachute code?

Joey Coleman (07:40):
Well, it actually only took about two hours, which to me seemed pretty fast. You know, I know about another hidden code. That’s on a sculpture inside CIA headquarters at Langley, Virginia, that code breakers have been working on since 1990, when the sculpture was revealed and they’ve only decoded three of the four parts over the last 30 years. But what’s interesting is the parachute code wasn’t the only hidden element in the Perseverance Rover.

Dan Gingiss (08:11):
Ah ha! No it wasn’t. And I particularly enjoyed the series of drawings that represented the five rovers. NASA has sent to Mars from the small soldier in 1997 to perseverance. Now it looks like one of those family car stickers you may have seen with the stick figures of parents and kids and maybe a pet on it. The Mars Rover version has stick figures of the various rovers in a kind of family car sticker design. There are also three small chips with the names of 10.9 million people stencilled on them. Part of NASA efforts for the public to participate in its robotic missions. Interestingly enough, the project manager we mentioned earlier, Matt Wallace, who gave the okay to do something fun with the parachute? He recently shared that there are more Surprises to come saying, quote, there’s some things on the front of the vehicle that we’ll have a chance to see once we deploy the robot arm. So who knows how many more surprises we’re in for?!

Joey Coleman (09:09):
I love every piece of this story. Dan. I love the playfulness. I love the creativity. I love the hidden messages. And the reason I wanted to talk about this on the show today is because so many businesses miss the opportunity to embed Easter eggs in the interactions that they have with their customers, whether you’re a product based business or a service-based business, this idea of putting little hidden messages that your customers can come across is something that I think a lot more businesses need to be paying attention to.

Dan Gingiss (09:42):
Yeah, I agree. And this doesn’t have to be very hard. We’ve talked before on the show about messages that appear on shipping boxes and sometimes they’re like underneath the flap. So you only see them when you go to take it apart to recycle it. And that doesn’t cost anything because you’re printing something on the box anyway. And so as long as you’re printing on the same side, it’s not going to cost you any more to add some, some type on there. I think there’s also places I remember a ways back and I’m sorry that my rain man abilities must be failing me. But, uh, we talked about the insurance company that, uh, that had the $10,000 reward buried in the, in the

Joey Coleman (10:23):
Terms and Conditions?

Dan Gingiss (10:26):
I mean, obviously that got them a lot of press and it was such a cool story. So I think there are plenty of places that we can do this. Wait a minute, wait a minute. It’s coming to me.

Joey Coleman (10:39):
It’s coming to you isn’t it? I’m going to guess on this one Dan, was it Season One?

Dan Gingiss (10:43):
No, that’s where I started to look too. But it’s not.

Joey Coleman (10:47):
I think it was season one, maybe not, but it was in a, it was in a “Say Anything” wasn’t it?

Dan Gingiss (10:52):
It was a, I think you should just stop guessing it was a…

Joey Coleman (10:58):
Normally I don’t play the game.

Dan Gingiss (11:00):
We don’t have a segment called “Say Anything” – that’s that’s a 1980s movie. Um, we have a segment called “Say What,” but it wasn’t that either, uh, it was in episode 73, season four, Required Remarkable, woman wins $10,000 for reading the fine print anyway, uh, enough of that shenanigans. Uh, but yeah, this is, look, there’s no law that says that your company has to be boring. It’s not written anywhere. It’s not in your credo or your value or mission statement. The lawyers don’t say that you have to be boring, and yet so many companies decide to be boring. And that’s why when I talk about, you know, my favorite word is witty in talking about how to create remarkable experiences, because witty to me, it’s not about telling jokes or being funny because humor can be dangerous. It’s just about thinking about how we use language and trying to come up with a more clever, fun, personable human way of saying something, or in this case of maybe hiding a little wink, wink that not everybody’s going to get, but man, when they get it, they’re just going to love you because they’re going to feel like they’re part of a special club.

Joey Coleman (12:07):
Absolutely. So friends, how can you apply the same level of playfulness and creativity? And one might even go so bold as to say Curiosity that the NASA team did? Well first and foremost, let your loyal fans interact with your products and services, not just use them, explore ways for them to have a relationship with your products and services that goes beyond just the typical use case, create some unscheduled or found moments of surprise and delight. I think a lot of brands think about, Oh, what are going to be our surprise and delight moments. But with Easter eggs, you can kind of bury those surprise and delight moments and your customer will find them on their own schedule and it will feel more authentic that way. It will feel more random that way. It will feel more unique that way. And last but not least, let’s just have some fun. I mean, it’s not rocket science!

Dan Gingiss (13:02):
I see what you did there Joey!

Joey Coleman (13:06):
With a pandemic sweeping the globe and shifting the way organizations interact with their customers, many of the old ways of operating just don’t work anymore. As we all navigate a COVID-19 world, it’s time to Redesign the Experience.

Joey Coleman (13:27):
Hey, Dan, let’s play a game I like to call “Name that Acronym!”

Dan Gingiss (13:33):
It’s “Name that Acronym” folks!

Joey Coleman (13:36):
Yes. Well, in the last segment we talked about NASA and so I was thinking…

Dan Gingiss (13:40):
National Aeronautics and Space Administration?

Joey Coleman (13:43):
Oh, very good. You’re ready already. I like it. I like it. Well now let’s see what other acronyms we know. And let’s maybe go with some acronyms that are a little more business oriented. All right, Dan, are you ready?

Dan Gingiss (13:56):
I am ready.

Joey Coleman (13:59):
All right. B2B?

Dan Gingiss (14:01):
Business to business.

Joey Coleman (14:03):
B2C?

Dan Gingiss (14:04):
Business to consumer.

Joey Coleman (14:05):
C2M?

Dan Gingiss (14:08):
Consumer to Marshmallow?

Joey Coleman (14:11):
I like the creativity of that, but that’s not exactly what I was going for to be honest. And this was a new one for me until very recently. It stands for consumer to manufacturer and this is a newly emerging approach to production. That’s getting a lot of attention in China, especially as we kind of navigate through the pandemic. Now there are several versions of C to M, but in essence, C to M is pairing big data. That’s gathered by a tech platform with artificial intelligence in order to identify the latest consumer shopping trends. And then with this insight manufacturers make products directly for consumers, cutting out all of the intermediaries with more direct insights about customer demand. There’s less need to create excess inventory buffers, which improves margins and reduces waste.

Dan Gingiss (15:06):
Now I’m all for getting rid of them middle man, cause they rarely add a whole lot of value. But what you’re saying here sounds like we’re listening to customers and developing products based on their use cases or what they’re saying or doing. I mean, can you give me an example of maybe a Chinese C to M business?

Joey Coleman (15:26):
I can and what I would say Dan is, yes we are. But what’s unique about C2M is these tech platforms are taking it to the next level. It’s not about the brand listening to what their customers are saying. And then creating new products, it’s giant social media platforms or e-commerce platforms tracking search behaviors and buying behaviors, extrapolating that data. And then using AI to partner with manufacturing firms to go straight to production. So you might’ve heard of the Chinese company Alibaba before.

Dan Gingiss (16:02):
Of course China’s biggest e-commerce platform.

Joey Coleman (16:06):
Exactly. So Alibaba clearly has all of the big data they need. They also have a thriving SITA em business unit. Now earlier in the pandemic, the CTM team at Alibaba noticed a sharp rise in demand for alcohol based car, cleaning supplies, things people want to use in order to stop the spread of COVID infections. Now Alibaba approached Otis, which is a company that makes car cleaning products who ironically enough at the time was really struggling with their sales. And Alibaba suggested that Otis create a line of portable sanitizing sprays instead of car cleaning products. They had all the ability to put, you know, to kind of create the, the spray bottles. If you will. They had all the ability to create the solvents that would go inside those, but they kind of suggested that based on what they were seeing in the marketplace, they should create something that was a portable sanitizing spray. So the team had Otis takes this data. It takes this suggestion and within three days rolls out a new product. Now, normally it takes them over three months to create a new product. What’s interesting is because Alibaba does so much e-commerce they had partnered customers were able to pre-order this spray before they even started manufacturing. So think of it as like Kickstarter, but without the Kickstarter platform and more than 200,000 bottles of portable sanitizing spray were sold in the first 24 hours,

Dan Gingiss (17:40):
That’s it huh? Just 200,000?

Joey Coleman (17:41):
That’s it! Just a brand new product launch with over 200,000 items sold in the first day, a brand new product that this company had never made before. Do you think that made the folks at Otis had a little bit happy? I imagine it did!

Dan Gingiss (17:54):
Especially with those struggling sales that were no longer. I mean, this is interesting. I would say I’m reminded of the fact that in the early months of the pandemic, there were many companies that started making things that they weren’t normally making because they had the supplies to do that. We talked here about some alcohol companies making hand sanitizer. We know that some car companies were making respirators and all that sort of thing. So let’s talk a little bit more about how this is similar or different.

Joey Coleman (18:24):
Well, I think you’re spot on we’ve we’ve seen other companies do that, but like let’s take example of the alcohol company that made hand sanitizer. They had to go out into the marketplace. First of all, they had to figure out how to do that. They had to create new bottles, new packaging, retool their systems internally, retrain their workers internally to create this. And then they had to go to their alcohol customers and say, Hey, I know you’re used to buying alcohol from us, but maybe you might like to buy hand sanitizer from us. It was a little bit of a leap. If not, a pretty significant leap…

Dan Gingiss (19:00):
Not as tasty for sure.

Joey Coleman (19:01):
Not as tasty a leap. And again, their marketplace that they were selling to was their existing customer base. Now counterbalance that against what Alibaba is doing. They already have everybody on the platform shopping they’re used to coming shopping. And so imagine taking an analogy here instead of the distillery selling sanitizer at their closed down, you know, custom craft brew shop or distillery locations instead, imagine walking into the mall and seeing this you’re expecting to see different types of products. So the reality is the more options that consumers have for where to shop and the more information they have at their fingertips about what to buy, the more these manufacturers are going to need to adapt to the products they’re creating.

Dan Gingiss (19:48):
Well, another example of how deeper connection with customers can lead to new products can be seen in the actions of the global spirits company Bacardi during the pandemic lockdowns Bacardi has hosted live streamed whiskey tastings on Amazon, introduced espresso martini cocktail kits for at-home mixologists, and gain the attention of single malt whiskey influencers with an Aberfeldy scotch dubbed, wait for it. The Loch Down, “loch” L-O-C-H.

Joey Coleman (20:18):
L-O-C-H as in the Scottish lake. I like it. I like it. The Loch Down. My son’s name is Lochlan – I need to put him on lockdown more often. I like this. What I love about these stories in these examples is we’re seeing a lot of companies around the world start to experiment with this, but in China, this is something that’s been going strong for a few years now. Now granted, the marketplace is different. E-commerce is different of the influence is different, but I saw a story about a company in China called Pinduoduo.

Dan Gingiss (20:53):
Time out! Now I’m going to have to interrupt you there. Best company name in the history of Experience This: Pinduoduo?

Joey Coleman (21:02):
Pinduoduo. It’s a pretty good name, right? It’s pretty fun. It’s pretty fun. Pinduoduo. I think I’m saying, hopefully I’m saying that right. The transliteration may not be spot on, but what pin duo duo did is they recognized that high-end robot vacuum cleaners kind of think like a Roomba or something like that, were selling in China for about 3000 Yuan. That’s about $500 us, which made them affordable to many of China’s richest citizens, but out of budget for a lot of their consumers. So they took this data, proving that there was a strong demand and then directly worked with the manufacturer to produce a much cheaper version. And then they shared their after sales data in order to help the manufacturer improve the product. Now, again, what I think is fascinating about this is these are the platforms taking a lead on this behavior. This is not the existing brands, the existing companies. These are the platforms, figuring out a way to use all of this data and all this insight they have by combining the data with AI, to then turn around and develop direct relationships to the manufacturers that they can then loop back around and have a direct relationship back to the consumer.

Dan Gingiss (22:22):
So you’re kind of saying, this is like if Facebook decided to sell staplers?

Joey Coleman (22:27):
Exactly. If they realized that everybody was posting about staplers and everybody was talking about staplers. I mean, it’s a variation on a theme on what Amazon does with Amazon Basics, where Amazon looks and sees which products are selling the best. But this is actually doing a little more of a sophisticated kind of sentiment analysis for some social media platforms and things like that, where they’re actually tracking the trends and the interest level. And then pairing that in. And what I also like, which Pinduoduo is doing is this loop that comes back in after the sale. Because right now a company that let’s say manufacturers, a product they’ve got to have the, as you talk about all the time, Dan, their customer experience listening going on, and they’re kind of listening to voice of the customer and they’re doing surveys, and they’re trying to see what’s being said about their brand on social, but this to me is an entirely different level of the platform providing that data back to the manufacturer. It just seems like a really fast moving change of how it’s going. And while this is certainly popular in China, we haven’t seen it as much in Europe and in the United States yet, but I think it’s just a matter of time.

Dan Gingiss (23:38):
Well, and it is always great to look at other countries to see what’s hot and what’s going on because trends often cross the globe. And we’ve talked about that before with VR (virtual reality) and how I had seen some of it in Japan years ago before I ever saw it in the United States. So I think it’s worthy to look at this and I do think it’s very interesting that almost any company, essentially, if it has an audience and data can work with a manufacturer to become a product creator. And I think that’s the takeaway is that no matter what business you’re in, it doesn’t mean that you have to expand only to ancillary businesses that are related to what you do today, that there might be something out there that using the data that you have, you can come up with something that is not so expected from your company.

Joey Coleman (24:33):
Dan, I totally agree. I think the reality is if we fast forward out, certainly 10 years, maybe five years, every product business should also have a service component to it. And every service business should also have a product component to it. And where I see this convergence with big data, I was listening to a presentation the other day from Peter Diamandis who is the author of the book, Abundance and the book, Bold. He’s also the founder of the X prize. And Peter said there are going to be two types of businesses at the end of this decade, businesses that are AI powered and businesses that are bankrupt. And so I think at the end of the day, the reason we wanted to share this segment is how are you thinking about incorporating AI into your business today? Because I promise you, your competitors are already thinking about this and many of them are already starting to do it.

Joey Coleman (25:33):
Almost everyone has interacted with chatbots, but all too often, it’s been a bad experience. In MythBusters, presented by Solvvy, we explore a common myth about CX chatbots and see how the right technology can create a positive experience, every time.

Joey Coleman (25:57):
It’s myth about chatbots, chatbots have bad analytics and lack insights. You probably think of chatbots as a customer communication tool and rightfully so, and as customer obsessed leaders know there is gold to be mined from customer interactions. Unfortunately, when it comes to capturing analytics and servicing actionable customer insights, most legacy chatbots fall woefully short.

Dan Gingiss (26:25):
Interestingly enough, the past is not the future. The best next gen chatbots include analytics and provide valuable insights into your customers and your support operations. For example, an X gen chat bot includes dashboards that do a lot of the heavy lifting for your team in seconds can see the types and frequency of questions that are being asked by customers and how the volumes are trending over time. You can also see how often your chat bot is successful in resolving different types of questions.

Joey Coleman (26:54):
Now, how does this help? Well, as a support leader the chat bot actually helps you identify customer pain points and prioritize the most impactful customer issues. First, furthermore, next gen chatbots, make it simple to drill down into specific conversations, to get more details about why an issue is occurring. This helps you better determine how to address the issue, whether that’s making changes to your help content or working with product and design teams to make fundamental improvements in your offerings.

Dan Gingiss (27:26):
Like using data and feedback to make improvements to a new lower end robot vacuum cleaner in China?

Joey Coleman (27:31):
Exactly. And that’s another Myth Busted, thanks to our friends and podcast supporters at Solvvy – the Next Gen Chatbot.

Joey Coleman (27:40):
We love telling stories and sharing key insights you can implement, or avoid, based on our experiences. Can you believe that This Just Happened?

Joey Coleman (27:56):
I got an interesting little text message the other day, Dan, that I wanted to tell you about… I’m on a call and a text message comes across my phone that says the following: “AMEX Fraud Alert. Did you just attempt a $15 and 23 cent charge on your card? Ending two, three, one, one, one at tropical smoothie cafe reply one, if yes, two to call Amex.” Now this was a little surprising to me. So I finished the call and I checked in with my amazing wife. And the reason I checked in with my wife is because ironically enough, tropical smoothie cafe is a place that we like to order from, from time to time. And I thought that maybe my credit card had been saved on her account or something. And she had placed an order while I was on the phone.

Dan Gingiss (28:42):
And then I assume the next question would be, why didn’t you bring me one?

Joey Coleman (28:46):
But I did look at the amount and I was like, “Oh, this might mean she ordered one for me too.” But we also have two boys and I’m looking at it going, there’s no way we got four smoothies for $15. So this is not seeming to be the right setup. Long story short, she had not placed the order. So what did I do? I texted to back to the thread, I then got a reply that said, please call 1-800, it gave me a long number or the number on the back of your card. Now, as I mentioned, Dan, I was kind of going about my work day when this happened. And while I was concerned about this potential fraud, I was kind of in the middle of juggling, a lot of other things. And so as I was trying to kind of piece a few things together and kind of wrap up a couple other things, so I could make this call, my phone rang and it was the number that I have saved in my phone from Amex. So when I didn’t call within like 15 minutes of texting, they called me. Long story short. We have a long conversation. They say, is there any chance you used your card in Dallas, Texas this morning? I said, no, I did not travel to Dallas just to get Tropical Smoothie, although don’t get me wrong. I would go a long distance to get a Bahama Mama, Tropical Smoothie, moral of the story I did not. And they said, I’m guessing you might not have made these other charges. And lo and behold, someone had put my card information onto a card and they were going all around in Dallas, wiping it, trying to make lots of purchases.

Dan Gingiss (30:14):
You know, I hate when that happens, and coming from the credit card industry, it is a fascinating business, this fraud business, because it is very difficult to siphon out. The fraudsters are not always obvious in their actions. I remember for example, when I was down in Columbia, I was able to run my card at a Colombian coffee shop. But as soon as I spent $20 on some cufflinks at a jewelry store that got declined because basically the combination of jewelry store plus Columbia sent it.

Joey Coleman (30:51):
They were not liking it.

Dan Gingiss (30:53):
No – they didn’t like that. And, uh, but it’s really interesting because that happened to be a false positive or false negative. I don’t know whatever, but it wasn’t,

Joey Coleman (31:00):
You just wanted the cufflinks!

Dan Gingiss (31:04):
But you know, this reminds me also, I had a similar situation recently with another credit card company where I got a fraud alert and it turns out that somebody had set up an account at FedEx in Memphis and was shipping lots of packages using my card. And this was.

Joey Coleman (31:24):
Sorry about that Dan!

Dan Gingiss (31:26):
So this was pretty ingenious because since they had set up the account, it was basically like a recurring payment. And so the credit card company did what they should have, which is they shut down the card and they issued me another card. But a week later I got another fraud alert from FedEx in Memphis. And I’m like, wait a second. But you just changed my number.

Joey Coleman (31:47):
You already disabled this!

Dan Gingiss (31:47):
Yeah, and I just updated like 79 websites with my new number and all that sort of stuff. And so I called a guy and this is where you’re working at a credit card company has some advantages because I said, you know, I think what’s going on here is this is a recurring payment, which means, uh, one of the things that credit card companies have done to help consumers is that if you have fraud on your card and you need a new number, they’ll call, you know, they’ll tell your, your cable company, And your utilities and all that so that you don’t have to go change the number, they do that for you. Well, the problem is when somebody is fraudulent lately signing up for a recurring payment, then they also tell that person…

Joey Coleman (32:29):
FedEx, Hey, guess what? Don’t worry about it. Let the charges roll.

Dan Gingiss (32:32):
Exactly. So I got a third card and that card then had fraud on it. So when I went to the fourth card in less than a month, and I said, look, I’m kind of done with this. I said to them, I know what’s wrong. Please shut off the recurring payment and then issue me a new card. And they did. And it worked now the moral of the story there is you shouldn’t have to work at a credit card company to be able to explain to the credit card company what they need to do to stop this. Uh, but I think where you were going was this texting alert thing is pretty cool. It’s in real time, it’s a great way to very quickly, either verify or deny a charge. I’ve had it happen where I’ve been in a store it’s been declined. And the second after the cashier says, your card is declined. I get the text, I hit. Yes. And then the card goes through and I always feel good about that because it means the credit card company is looking out for me versus feeling embarrassed that my card got declined, but I don’t know maybe others don’t.

Joey Coleman (33:32):
No, I think you’re spot on Dan. And that’s the main reason I wanted to talk about this is the power that comes from anticipating customer headaches. To your point about the FedEx story. No customer has to, wants to, have to call back again and again and again, when something is going wrong, right? Fraud on your credit card is not the usual thing you like to see. It’s a problem. And you start to get worked up about it. You want to solve the problem. They want to solve the problem, et cetera. But what I love about what American Express did here is they anticipated the problem and made me feel like they were doing me a favor by checking in. The reality is in most jurisdictions, there are very specific laws about how much liability you can get when a credit card is fraudulently used. And in most places, it’s usually about $50. You probably know the specific numbers in the specific jurisdictions, but on average, it’s about $50. So the reality is checking in on these fraud charges helps the credit card company more than it helps me. Because my liability is capped at $50. They have to pay all the rest. If these charges get run up in a significant way multiple times, but this idea of making it feel like they’re looking out for me or anticipating my problem makes me feel like they’re doing me a favor when the reality is, they’re kind of doing themselves a favor. So what can we learn from this story? I think where possible we want to be looking at what are the potential headaches that a customer has from using our product naturally? It’s natural that I would go to tropical smoothie and swipe my credit card and use it. So what are the consequences of that potentially while someone might get my credit card and use it fraudulently, what can they do anticipate the problem that I’m going to have and jump ahead to solve it. So how much of your time, fellow listeners of the Experience This Show, are you spending anticipating the problems that your customers might have in order to deliver a remarkable experience and remove that problem before they’re even aware of it?

Joey Coleman (35:43):
Thanks for joining us for another episode of Experience This! You are the best listener ever!

Dan Gingiss (35:54):
And since you listened to the whole show,

Joey Coleman (35:56):
Yay you!

Dan Gingiss (35:57):
We’re curious – was there a specific part of this episode that you enjoyed the most? If so, it would mean the world to us if you could share it with a coworker, a friend, or someone that just loves listening to podcasts.

Joey Coleman (36:08):
And while you’re in the sharing mood, if you felt inclined to jump over to iTunes, or wherever you find your podcasts and write us a review, we would so appreciate it. And when you do, don’t forget to let us know as we might have a little surprise for you.

Dan Gingiss (36:23):
Thanks again for your time and we’ll see you next week for more

Joey Coleman (36:26):
Experience!

Dan Gingiss (36:28):
This!

Episode 126 – Predicting Key Elements of Future Customer Experiences

Join us as we discuss the importance of being relevant to your customers, how augmented reality is helping to ease purchase decisions, and how to use data to drive predictive CX.

Expectations, Simplifications, and Permutations – Oh My!

Referenced in the Show

• Coveo Relevance Report 2021: Ecommerce

• Empire Carpet Augmented Reality

• Prediction: The Future of CX – McKinsey Quarterly

Host Contact Information

Email Dan: Dan@dangingiss.com

Tweet Dan Gingiss: @DGingiss

Email Joey: JoeyC@JoeyColeman.com

DanGingiss.com

JoeyColeman.com

Subscribe to Experience This on Apple Podcasts

Learn more about our Season 7 Partner – Solvvy – The NextGen Chatbot

Episode Transcript

Download an unedited transcript of Episode 126 here or read it below:

Joey Coleman (00:05):
Welcome to Experience This!

Dan Gingiss (00:07):
The podcast that celebrates remarkable customer experiences and inspires you to stand out from the competition by wowing your customers.

Joey Coleman (00:17):
Each episode, we bring you a healthy dose of inspiring stories, funny interactions, and practical takeaways. Marketing and customer experience thought leader, Dan Gingiss…

Dan Gingiss (00:30):
shares the mic with customer retention and employee experience expert, Joey Coleman, helping you to get people talking about your business.

Joey Coleman (00:40):
So get ready because it’s time to Experience This!

Dan Gingiss (00:48):
Get ready for another episode of the Experience This Show!

Joey Coleman (00:55):
Join us as we discuss the importance of being relevant to your customers, how augmented reality is helping to ease purchase decisions, and how to use data to drive predictive CX.

Dan Gingiss (01:10):
Expectations, Simplifications, and Permutations – oh, my!

Joey Coleman (01:19):
Surveys, reports, studies, and reviews. There are some great resources that look at consumer behavior to find emerging trends and established patterns. We dig through the data and bring you the key takeaways in this edition of Inside The Numbers.

Dan Gingiss (01:41):
So I wanted to share with our listeners a brand new report out from a company called Coveo, which in full disclosure is a client of mine, but I’m sharing the report because it touches on a concept of customer experience. I don’t think we’ve talked a lot about, and that people generally are not talking enough about, and that is the concept of relevance. And they did a very interesting survey where they talked to nearly 2,000 consumers about their frustrations and challenges across three kinds of digital experiences: e-commerce, customer service, and employee experience. So I wanted to walk through this with you, Joey and our listeners, because I think this is something you tell me, are you getting what I’m trying to say?

Joey Coleman (02:33):
No, I agree. I think it’s interesting. When, when you said we want to talk about something we haven’t really talked about on the show. You’re right. Not only do we not spend a lot of time talking about it on the show, but to be Frank, it’s not a word that I hear come up in a lot of customer experience conversations.

Dan Gingiss (02:48):
Yeah. And what Coveo is trying to convey to people is that it should be the word that comes up in customer experience conversation. So let’s talk about these three experiences: e-commerce, customer service, and employee experience one at a time. Now with e-commerce I thought this was absolutely stunning: 90% of consumers expect online shopping to be equal to, or better than, the in-store experience. So Coveo CEO and chairman Louis Têtu said that it’s the Moore’s Law of digital experience expectations, which I thought was awesome because it’s interesting to put that. Yeah. Yeah. Instead of doubling the computing power defined by the original Moore’s law, he’s talking about the rapid improvement of relevant digital experiences and our demand for them.

Joey Coleman (03:38):
Yeah Dan, you know, in many ways while the percentage is certain – 90%, that’s huge/surprised me – in some ways, it didn’t especially given the dramatic shift to e-commerce that is especially occurred in the last year. And I think the reality is for years e-commerce solutions were presenting themselves as better than the store. It’s more convenient than the store. We have better selection than the store. You don’t have to get dressed up. You don’t have to deal with, you know, a clueless sales associate. You don’t have to be harassed in the store by people saying, can I help you find something? You know, there, there were all these reasons why e-commerce was stacked up as being so much better than the in-store experience. So it’s not entirely surprising to me that it’s supposed to be better. What was interesting is that 50% of customers, in their research, said that they sometimes, or always experienced a problem when shopping online, I got to tell ya, I pretty rarely experience a problem shopping online, but it was a good reminder that, uh, there’s a lot of folks out there that still aren’t doing a lot of e-commerce. In fact, I saw a post on Facebook a few weeks ago from somebody that actually is, uh, you know, is in this town, that small town that I grew up in saying, is it really okay to give my credit card to somebody online, like an online merchant ,to buy something from an online store? And this is in 2021. Now one could look at that and judge it and say, Oh my gosh, where have they been? How have they not purchased anything online up until now? But what I took from it is that they’re still a huge swath of the public that has not done a lot of online transactions.

Dan Gingiss (05:26):
Yeah, for sure. And what I also took away from it is half the people saying they’ve experienced a problem that is not good. I mean, that’s a problem – so alarm bells going off in my head. Now, one of the biggest problems that they’re experiencing is it shoppers just want to find what they’re looking for and this gets back to a discussion that we’ve had now for a couple episodes about user experience and 47% of those surveyed have challenges with website search, 42% say that finding information is the most common problem experienced online, and 43% are having issues with website navigation. People.

Joey Coleman (06:05):
That’s the darn navigation coming back again. We’ve talked about that before!

Dan Gingiss (06:09):
But why are we making it so difficult for customers to find what they’re looking for? It just doesn’t make any sense to me.

Joey Coleman (06:15):
It doesn’t, it doesn’t. I think, you know, the, the last piece of research on the e-commerce side that I thought was interesting in this report was that 43% of consumers said they’d pay more if they could find what they were looking for in just a few clicks. And the number was actually higher with millennials. And I think it speaks back to something. We have talked a lot about on the show, which is speed and convenience. If you’re going to tell me that it’s so much better buying it online, I better be able to find it online faster than I could find it walking around in the store, trying to determine what shelf it’s on.

Dan Gingiss (06:49):
Yeah, I mean, if we’re not shopping online for speed and convenience, then what are we shopping online for?

Joey Coleman (06:56):
Well, you know, there are some other reasons, you know, as far as like social distancing and you know, things like that, but it’s not enough to just be able to do it from the comfort of your own home, wearing your pajamas. Right? You need to be able to actually make the shopping experience faster than going into the store.

Dan Gingiss (07:14):
Absolutely. So let’s talk about customer service, which is another speaker out there who will remain nameless once said is “what happens when customer experience breaks.” That’s one of my favorite definitions of customer service. 73% of customers, according to this study will abandon a brand after three or fewer negative customer service experiences. Now, to be honest, what surprised me about this was that it wasn’t one. Okay.

Joey Coleman (07:42):
Right! Three or fewer… you were thinking the fewer was one!

Dan Gingiss (07:45):
Yeah. I mean three strikes – that’s a lot of strikes for a bad customer service experience, given that you’re not getting to customer service, unless something has already gone wrong with the customer experience. So customer service folks is the time where you have a chance to save the experience. And if things are still going wrong at the service level, you’re not going to keep customers for long.

Joey Coleman (08:08):
Interestingly, two of the top frustrations causing people to abandon a brand are the inability to find information, including contact information for customer service or content on how to use, fix, or maintain a purchase (that was 44% of the respondents) and then 23% of the respondents complained about getting conflicting information from customer service. Friends, when I call customer service, or when I contact customer service, I’m expecting them to know all the answers. And when I get conflicting answers from customer service, well that’s when customer service becomes a customer nightmare!

Dan Gingiss (08:48):
Absolutely. Now here’s something speaking of nightmares that should cause you to lose sleep and have nightmares throughout the night. 44% of consumers will rarely or never complain to a company about a negative customer service experience. Instead, they will just leave.

Joey Coleman (09:12):
The silent ghosters! The silent… you won’t even know! They just peace out. They’re done. They’ve had their Fill.

Dan Gingiss (09:18):
This is what I like to call the leaky bucket, and every company has one. We’re focused on the front door. We’re focused on bringing lots of new people in and increasing sales. And we’re missing the fact that people are walking out the back door while we’re not paying attention. And the nice customers walk out the back door and tell us what we did wrong because at least they give us a chance to fix it for the next guy. But most customers don’t do that. And here are the numbers: 44% are just going to ghost you after a bad experience – something that would keep me up at night, I’ll say,

Joey Coleman (09:50):
Yeah. And what’s crazy is the same research showed that 47% said that they would tell a family member or a friend about that negative experience. So here’s the freight train friends, they don’t tell you what went wrong, but they tell everyone they know what went wrong. This is kind of the double whammy – because not only do you not have the chance to improve it or to resolve the situation or retain that customer by trying to make it right, you don’t even know what happened. But that is the leading conversation they’re having with their network about why they should never do business with you.

Dan Gingiss (10:31):
Absolutely. But to end things on a positive note in this section, 53% of consumers are likely to tell a family member or friend about a positive customer service experience. Now we talked about this in the last episode with your niece, getting to drive the golf cart over the wall, what an amazing positive experience. And of course your brother told everybody about it. And guys that’s what happens when we have positive experiences. We want to tell everybody about it. So I was happy that the numbers here bore that out. That 53% are willing to tell someone about a positive, 47% will say the same thing about a negative experience. That’s both good news and bad news. Let’s move on to employee experiences. It’s just the third part of the study. And this was a little bit different, but I think still really, really interesting because relevance is important to employees also. In particular, when we were hearing before about people being frustrated from a customer service agent, either not knowing the answer, or giving conflicting information, often this is a problem with the training and the information that we provide to our agents. And so relevance is really key there too. Now, speaking of relevance workers reported in this study that they spent two and a half hours of every day searching for the information that they need to do their jobs. That is 12 and a half hours a week times the number of your employees, times whatever you pay them per hour. That is a lot of money being wasted!

Joey Coleman (12:03):
That gasp? Followed by a thud that you heard in the background? Was me falling over at this data! I am blown away. I’m, I’m not surprised, but I’m just shocked that in this day and age, we still aren’t giving employees what they need. And in fact, interestingly enough, with all the information we are giving our employees, a lot of it is irrelevant to their specific job. And in fact, the survey showed that 41% of all information was completely irrelevant to the specific job that employee had. You know, Dan I’m in the process of working on my next book, which is all about employee experience and let me tell you this research is not only supporting the case studies and the data that we have, but it’s just reinforcing that in every business you have your customer experience advocates, those same advocates need to be the employee experience advocates and vice versa. I would love to see everybody who’s in customer experience and customer service come together with everybody in HR and just say, let’s have a kumbaya moment, all of us who hold hands and make this situation better, because it is a nightmare for both the customers and the employees, especially as it’s clear from this study, when it comes to relevance.

Dan Gingiss (13:22):
For sure, I mean, 16% of people said they’re ready to quit because the frustrations around being able to find information to do their job, while nearly half of employees are less engaged in their work and feel less confident in their daily activities because of this.

Joey Coleman (13:38):
Yeah. And last but not least, this is, and we saved this one for last because this one, I think, ties all the other ones together, right? It ties the e-commerce to the customer service to the employee experience. 85% of employees are not completely confident in the information that they share externally. They’re worried that the information is out of date. It’s irrelevant, it’s inaccurate, or they aren’t even sure if they’re allowed to share it. Friends, 85% of employees aren’t sure. And if you don’t think that has a dramatic impact on your customer experience. Oh my goodness. I don’t know what to tell you.

Dan Gingiss (14:21):
All right. Well, if you’d like to see the entire report from Coveo, e’re going to drop the link in our show notes at ExperienceThisShow.com in this episode, and definitely check out this report because it is fascinating. And definitely we’ve got some good ideas now on what we can do to stay relevant to both our customers and our employees.

Joey Coleman (14:45):
Just because you have required elements of your business, doesn’t mean they need to be boring. It’s time to get creative, have some fun, and make people sit up – and take notice! Get your customers talking when you Make the Required Remarkable.

Dan Gingiss (15:04):
Joey, have you ever used AR ()or augmented reality as part of a shopping experience?

Joey Coleman (15:10):
You know, Dan in the interest of full disclosure, I have not, but I’ve thought about it. I’ve seen some of the various AR tools that are available for shopping, but I’m a rookie. I haven’t done it yet.

Dan Gingiss (15:22):
Well, the first time I was exposed to this and I may have told this story before was when I was in Tokyo, visiting the famed Ginza shopping district, and…

Joey Coleman (15:31):
one of the best shopping districts in the world – absolutely amazing place.

Dan Gingiss (15:35):
And I know… This was about 10 years ago, and I remember I was walking with, uh, uh, somebody who was working for a bank and they were showing me this was a pilot. It wasn’t even out to the public yet. And they were walking with their cell phone down the street and with the camera on, and as we were passing by stores, there would be coupons and specials and offers that would pop up from those stores because the phone knew that you were standing in front of XYZ store, XYZ store had so many offers loaded up, and you literally, as you walked down the street, your screen updated with the current offers that were going on at these stores. So really, really cool. I didn’t think a whole lot about it because I hadn’t seen it in any other it really out in the wild and not in the United States in awhile. Until recently, when my fiancée and I were looking for flooring and carpeting in our house. And we contacted empire today as one of the companies that we were getting a quote from, and they have an app where you take a picture of your room, you choose the flooring or the carpeting, and with one press of the button, your picture is transformed so that it now looks like your room with the floor or the carpeting that you’ve chosen. It is amazing. And my fiancée got a little bit addicted to this and sent me maybe a few dozen photos…

Joey Coleman (17:02):
Hypothetically! Hypothetically!

Dan Gingiss (17:02):
She spent hours on this app, testing out different colors, and flooring, and different carpeting, and different, you know, how all these different things worked and it was amazing because it really gave you a sense for, Oh, that’s how the floor is going to go with our windows, or our paint on the wall or, or what have you. And I absolutely loved it.

Joey Coleman (17:26):
Dan, I love this. And I know we’ve talked about this on the show, but years ago I found out that the best selling issue of Architectural Digest magazine every year is their before and after issue, where they show a house before the remodel and all the revisions that have been made and then they show a house after. And the reason scientists will you, that that’s the best issue is because most humans cannot in their mind picture what something is going to fully look like without seeing a rendering, without seeing a picture without seeing an illustration of it. This is why artists in many ways are so rare in our society because they envision what’s going to be on the canvas before they start. The average person can’t do that. And so it is not surprising that this app was such a wonderful tool for your fiancée to be able to use, to kind of see all the different variations, not to mention, Oh my gosh, it’s such an easier way than going to the store and getting swatches, which usually are about the size of a quarter of a dollar bill. Right. You know, it’s like, Hey, we, we didn’t want to give you the full post-it note size. So we made it even smaller and you’re supposed to lay 30 of them out on the floor and take a guess as to what the carpeting will look like in the room. Look, it makes no sense. I love the idea of these types of apps!

Dan Gingiss (18:48):
Yeah, it was great. And so, as we were enjoying this app, I did a little research because I knew I wanted to talk about it on the show. And I wanted to see are there other companies that are using this? And I was actually somewhat surprised to find out that there are a lot of companies now, what I had heard about before, but then went and looked at it on their website was Warby Parker – which of course we’ve talked about on this show, sells glasses. And of course you can try on glasses, virtually, take pictures, share with your friends, ask how people, you know, how they think you look. And I think that’s a great use case. Joey, why don’t we go back and forth and share some other ideas?

Joey Coleman (19:28):
You know, there’s a number of ones that do this, you know, kind of building off your empire today, experience, I know IKEA, and Home Depot, and Wayfair, and Target all have variations on a theme here where you can place individual pieces of furniture in your room, or in the example of Home Depot, you can put refrigerators or chandeliers, or various things, and actually see what it’s going to look like in the room by looking through your phone.

Dan Gingiss (19:53):
Yeah. And there’s other companies that do this Brilliant Earth is a company that does this with engagement rings, as it turns out that you can, that you can try on, but there’s a few that have started to take this to a different level that I think are really, really cool. Now, one that I wanted to talk about was Nike.

Joey Coleman (20:13):
I had a feeling you were going to talk about this. This is really fascinating technology.

Dan Gingiss (20:16):
Yeah. So Nike has something called Nike Fit. And what happens is you take a picture of your feet. And the first thing the app does is it calculates your exact shoe size based on the photo of your foot. And then it allows you to choose a shoe, place it on your foot and you’re placing the exact size shoe onto your foot, which is incredible.

Joey Coleman (20:39):
Absolutely incredible. Yeah. And from, from head to toe, as one might say. Sephora has a virtual digital artist that allows you to put makeup on and see exactly what you’re going to look like with the makeup properly applied in whatever shades and colors and styles you want. Literally, we’re going to be able to dress ourselves – from head to toe – using these type of augmented reality solutions.

Dan Gingiss (21:03):
And in fact, there are already contactless dressing rooms, which of course were invented before the pandemic, but probably became a little bit more popular during the pandemic where you actually don’t have to try on the clothes because you just stand in front of a camera and the clothes, basically the clothes try on you – which is an interesting way of looking at in concept. But probably the coolest example that I found was one from Lowe’s and they introduced something called the Holo-room Test Drive. Now this allows you Joey, to pick up a power tool, say, for example, you want it to test out a chainsaw. It allows you to put on a virtual reality headset and use the tool in a safe virtual space, because we don’t want to just hand Joey a tool, a chainsaw and see…

Joey Coleman (21:55):
As somebody who grew up in the country, I know how to run a chainsaw. I’ve run a chainsaw plenty of times. However, I do understand that desire. If you haven’t run a chainsaw, it can be a pretty scary thing. I mean, they made a horror movie about a chainsaw situation, gone awry in Texas. And..

Dan Gingiss (22:16):
True story – I bought a chain saw once and I returned it because when I took it out of the box, I was afraid to use it! So I can relate to that!

Joey Coleman (22:22):
This is the perfect app for you. I love it. The Holo-Room Test Drive from Lowe’s. Absolutely brilliant.

Dan Gingiss (22:30):
So what can we learn from this? Augmented reality/virtual reality are here and they’re here to stay and a lot of brands are using them. They’re trying them out. They’re letting customers try before they buy experience things virtually. And especially if we learned anything in 2020, we have learned that “virtual reality” became our reality is an important part of the buying experience. And these things aren’t going to go away. When people can return to stores, they’re still going to be there because online shopping and e-commerce continues to grow every single year. And the more that we can do to provide our customers and prospective customers with the opportunity to feel good about their purchase before they plunk down money, the better chance we’re going to get of gaining their business.

Joey Coleman (23:23):
Almost everyone has interacted with chatbots, but all too often, it’s been a bad experience. In MythBusters – presented by Solvvy – we explore a common myth about CX chatbots and see how the right technology can create a positive experience, every time.

Dan Gingiss (23:47):
Today’s myth about chatbots? Chatbots are ugly. Now that’s quite a statement – so let me explain Joey. A lot of the chatbots on the market look like a generic text exchange you’d have on your mobile phone. They’re not unique or visually appealing in any way. And even if you wanted to change them, they’re not easy to customize. Furthermore, traditional chatbots aren’t particularly well-designed. For instance, have you ever had a chat bot shoehorn, several paragraphs of text into a tiny text bubble? Overall, an ugly chat bot experience will turn off customers and tarnish your brand.

Joey Coleman (24:27):
Now the reality is Dan that next gen chat bots are designed to delight and can be configured to be on brand. There’s no more excuse for having an ugly chat bot, modern chat bots allow you to easily choose colors, fonts, and icons for a better customer experience that feels like an extension of your website or your app. And instead of dumping, a bunch of links or robotic paragraphs of text into a tiny chat bubble, next gen chat bots use their real estate well. They cleanly and concisely display the actual answer a customer’s looking for versus dumping just paragraphs of text into the conversation. If the customer needs an image, or a video, or a link, all of that can be displayed cleanly in a way that’s elegant and representative of the brand that you want to be in the marketplace.

Dan Gingiss (25:18):
So look – poorly designed generic chatbots are going to soon be a thing of the past. Thank goodness we’ve taken care of it in websites and mobile apps. So chat bots are next. Another great example of how chat bot technology is the best it’s ever been.

Joey Coleman (25:35):
And that’s another MythBusted – thanks to our friends at Solvvy, the Next Gen Chatbot.

Joey Coleman (25:44):
There are so many great customer experience articles to read, but who has the time?! We summarize them and offer clear takeaways you can implement starting tomorrow. Enjoy this segment of CX Press – where we read the articles so you don’t need to!

Dan Gingiss (26:03):
Today’s CX Press comes to us from our friends at McKinsey and the McKinsey Quarterly, where they offer up Prediction: The Future of CX. And I thought this was a fascinating piece because it broke out into a couple of parts. The first was talking about how so many companies rely on surveys to get customer data. Now, you and I have talked about this before, Joey, I like to think of customer data in two different buckets: We have the voice of the customer (or VOC), and we have the actions of the customer (or AOC) and smart companies put both of these data points together because let’s face it, what customers say is not always what customers do.

Joey Coleman (26:49):
Wait?! They don’t always do what they say Dan?

Dan Gingiss (26:52):
That is true. That is true.

Joey Coleman (26:55):
Shocking. Shocking.

Dan Gingiss (26:55):
You learn something new every day. So McKinsey found four flaws with today’s survey based customer experience measurement systems, which I thought were pretty interesting. The first was that only 7% of the customer voice is shared with CX leaders. 7%. So what that means is that if all you’re doing is surveying, you’re only getting us a tiny sliver of the actual voice of the customer.

Joey Coleman (27:23):
They also found that only 13% of CX leaders are confident that their organization can take action on CX issues in near real time. So even if you know what you’re supposed to do, there’s this kind of reactive disconnect where the leaders aren’t confident that they can actually take action.

Dan Gingiss (27:43):
Right? And only 16% of CX leaders think that surveys allow them to address the root causes of performance, which of course is that action that they need to take. And finally, only 4% of CX leaders believe that their CX measurement system enables them to calculate a decision’s return on investment. 4%?! That’s like, none!

Joey Coleman (28:04):
Yeah. That’s, that’s, that’s a rounding error.

Dan Gingiss (28:07):
Exactly. So Mackenzie asks and I’m quoting “[w]hy use the survey to ask customers about their experiences when data about customer interactions can be used to predict both satisfaction and the likelihood that a customer will remain loyal, or bolt, or even increase their business.” And their conclusion is that predictive customer insight is the future, instead of survey mechanisms. So they gave three different examples, which I’d like to walk through. The first was a leading credit card company and having worked at a leading credit card company, I have no idea if this is the one I worked for, but I don’t think so…

Joey Coleman (28:43):
We’re not sure, but it could be, but we’re not sure…

Dan Gingiss (28:45):
All we know is it’s, it’s a leading credit card company wanted to adopt a more omni-channel strategy and boost its performance in digital channels. It focused on building a CX data and analytics stack to systematically identify, improve, and track the factors, influencing customer satisfaction and business performance across 13 priority customer journeys. The team used the analytics platform to focus its investments and operational efforts on the journeys and specific moments that made a difference for customers. And it ultimately reduced its interaction and operational costs by 10 to 25% as a result of the CX and digital transformation.

Joey Coleman (29:24):
You know, Dan, one of McKinsey’s second examples that they used is one that I had never heard of in any capacity, but it makes perfect sense. There was a US healthcare payer that built a journey lake to determine how to improve its customer care. So the journey lake synced 4 billion records across nine systems, spanning marketing, operations, sales, digital, and internet of things. And the resulting holistic customer view enabled the organization to identify operational break points or thresholds where patients often ask to speak with a supervisor or move to another channel to resolve their issue. And then they could proactively reach out to patients through the website and emails and outbound calls to settle the problem. So this was that idea of really using big data to make, take big actions.

Dan Gingiss (30:17):
I love it and, and journey lake by the way, is sort of a play on what is often referred to as a data Lake, which is basically taking all of your data and it sort of feels like it’s just a giant lake because it’s coming from all, all sorts of different places. Uh, finally, a leading airline built a machine learning system that was based on 1500 customer operations and financial variables to measure both satisfaction and predicted revenue for it’s more than 100 million customers. The system allowed the airline to identify and prioritize those customers whose relationships were most at risk because of a delay or cancellation and offer them personalized compensation to save the relationship and reduce customer defection on high priority routes. A combined team of 12 to 15 data scientists, CX experts, and external partners work together for three months to build the system and lead this first application – which resulted in an 800% uplift in satisfaction and a 60% reduction in churn for priority customers. Now, I know you like talking about airlines. What do you think about that one?

Joey Coleman (31:27):
Airlines? That’s pretty crazy. I got to admit the 800% uplift. I was like, Oh my gosh, how bad were we in the hole that we could handle an 800% uplift?

Dan Gingiss (31:36):
How could it have been a leading airline if that was the case?

Joey Coleman (31:37):
But hey, what are we doing? What I really loved was the personalized compensation. We have reached a point where if your business isn’t looking to create customer experience on an individualized, personalized, customized basis, you’re, you’re falling behind. That’s all there is to it. I don’t care how big your company is. We’ve really got to shift our mindset to recognize that when it comes to remarkable experiences, it’s not enough to develop one experience and presume that it’s a one size fits all. We need to be ready to use the data, to make the predictions, and to be nimble enough, and agile enough, to customize those interactions on an individual by individual basis.

Dan Gingiss (32:29):
Yeah. And you know, a parallel example that I could offer and, you know, feel free to use this in your new book. Joey, is that, when you have a whole bunch of employees at a company, they all like recognition, but people like recognition in different ways. Some people want to be called up in front of the whole company and have everybody applied and clap and give an owner award. And for some people that is absolutely mortifying.

Joey Coleman (32:54):
It’s the worst thing you could do.

Dan Gingiss (32:55):
Right. And other people are more motivated by money, or just a pat on the back, or a little gift, or something like that.

Joey Coleman (33:02):
Or time off! Some people will just take it. It’s like, you don’t have to pay me more, but can I leave an hour earlier next week? Yes, that was all they need.

Dan Gingiss (33:09):
I was always amazed at how much “jeans days” were an incentive to people.

Joey Coleman (33:14):
Yeah – jeans days! It was killer. When I was growing up, I went to a Catholic school where we had a uniform and we used to charge for jeans day, sometimes as a fundraiser. And Oh my gosh, every kid was all in, you know, and it was like a dollar or $5. It was, you know, a fairly inconsequential sum to get everybody to participate. But we would have, you know, 99, 99.5% participation across the student body.

Dan Gingiss (33:40):
Man, I’d like to meet that poor kid that’s still showed up in his uniform that day.

Joey Coleman (33:45):
There was always, uh, the ability to, to like gift it if you felt somebody wasn’t in a position to do it, or you know, that we would plan, try to plan ahead for those things. But yeah, it’s, it’s amazing what little things can really move the dial when it comes to engagement and satisfaction and delight.

Dan Gingiss (34:01):
Yeah, with employees, with customers, with students, whoever it is. So finally McKinsey explained four ways to turn data into insight and action. Number one: work on changing mindsets. And I’m quoting here “[w]hen asked about the biggest challenge with the current system. One chief experience officer responded people, associate CX with marketing, not technology that is changing as more and more companies take up predictive analytics. And it’s up to customer experience leaders to help encourage the change in perception.”

Joey Coleman (34:33):
Number two: break down silos and build cross-functional teams. You know, Dan always teases me as a farm kid that my go-to saying is that silos make perfect sense on the farm and they are a nightmare in your organization. I can’t believe we’re still having this conversation about breaking down silos, but it’s because there are too many of them. We need to be more cross-functional. We need to share data and share, uh, predictions and share, uh, analysis across the various divisions in our organization.

Dan Gingiss (35:03):
And remember your customers don’t care how your company is organized. Only you care about that and your executives care, but the customers don’t and frankly, they shouldn’t have to care. Number three: start with a core journey data set and build to improve accuracy. I think this is a great idea. Sometimes you just need a small win, find one part of the journey that you can focus on gathering the correct data to provide a better experience. And then when you see how it works, you share that you gain the buy in and you start working on the tougher journeys.

Joey Coleman (35:34):
Last but not least, number four: focus first on the use cases that drive quick value. You know, this seems obvious, but the number of times I’ve been in a conversation with an organization where they identify three things they want to work on and they pick the absolute hardest one that it’s going to take months, if not years, to establish ROI on I’m like folks, let’s get some momentum, let’s get some quick value so that we build excitement for these types of initiatives.

Dan Gingiss (36:02):
For sure. So this, like all of our CX Press articles, will be linked to in our show notes at ExperienceThisShow.com

Joey Coleman (36:11):
Thanks for joining us for another episode of Experience This! You are the best listener ever!

Dan Gingiss (36:22):
And since you listened to the whole show…

Joey Coleman (36:24):
Yay you!

Dan Gingiss (36:26):
were curious – was there a specific part of this episode that you enjoyed the most? If so, it would mean the world to us if you could share it with a coworker, a friend, or someone that just loves listening to podcasts.

Joey Coleman (36:37):
And while you’re in the sharing mood, if you felt inclined to jump over to iTunes, or wherever you find your podcasts, and write us a review, we would so appreciate it. And when you do, don’t forget to let us know as we might have a little surprise for you.

Dan Gingiss (36:51):
Thanks again for your time and we’ll see you next week for more…

Joey Coleman (36:55):
Experience!

Dan Gingiss (36:56):
This!

Episode 125 – An Experience to Remember

Join us as we discuss getting people to come to court, when the custom clothing experience just doesn’t measure up, and a remarkable birthday celebration at a car dealership.

Summons, Suits, and Surprises – Oh My!

Referenced in the Show

• “Behavioral Nudges Reduce Failure to Appear for Court” – by Alissa Fishbane, Aurelie Ouss, and Anuj K. Shah in Science magazine

image courtesy of Shimkat Motors
image courtesy of K.C. Coleman
image courtesy of K.C. Coleman

• Shimkat Motors – Fort Dodge, Iowa

Host Contact Information

Email Dan: Dan@dangingiss.com

Tweet Dan Gingiss: @DGingiss

Email Joey: JoeyC@JoeyColeman.com

DanGingiss.com

JoeyColeman.com

Subscribe to Experience This on Apple Podcasts

Learn more about our Season 7 Partner – Solvvy – The NextGen Chatbot

Episode Transcript

Download an unedited transcript of Episode 125 here or read it below:

Joey Coleman (00:05):
Welcome to Experience This!

Dan Gingiss (00:08):
The podcast that celebrates remarkable customer experiences and inspires you to stand out from the competition by wowing your customers.

Joey Coleman (00:17):
Each episode, we bring you a healthy dose of inspiring stories, funny interactions, and practical takeaways. Marketing and customer experience thought leader, Dan Gingiss…

Dan Gingiss (00:30):
shares the mic with customer retention and employee experience expert, Joey Coleman, helping you to get people talking about your business.

Joey Coleman (00:40):
So get ready because it’s time to Experience This!

Joey Coleman (00:49):
Get ready for another episode of the Experience This! Show!

Dan Gingiss (00:53):
Join us as we discuss: getting people to come to court, when the custom clothing experience just doesn’t measure up, and a remarkable birthday celebration at a car dealership.

Joey Coleman (01:07):
Summons, Suits, and Surprises – Oh my!

Joey Coleman (01:15):
There are so many great customer experience articles to read, but who has the time we summarize them and offer clear takeaways you can implement starting tomorrow, enjoy this segment of CX press, where we read the articles. So you don’t need to,

Joey Coleman (01:33):
Have you ever been summoned to go to court, Dan?

Dan Gingiss (01:37):
Wow! What a way to start off a conversation.

Joey Coleman (01:41):
I’m leading into the episode strong.

Dan Gingiss (01:43):
Yeah. And I’m not so sure I should answer that question. Do I need a lawyer?

Joey Coleman (01:47):
Well, fair enough. Fair enough. But as most of our listeners know earlier in my career, I was a criminal defense lawyer, which is why I was very intrigued when I came across an article in Science magazine that will serve as our CX press article in this episode. The article was titled “Behavioral Nudges Reduce Failure to Appear for Court,” and the introduction explained the situation quite well so I quote, “[e]ach year, millions of people in the United States are required to appear in court for low-level offenses. Many defendants miss their court dates. Criminal justice policy often uses punitive sanctions to deter these failures to appear. For example, when defendants fail to appear, arrest warrants are issued, which draws defendants further into the criminal justice system. These policies presumed that defendants pay attention to those penalties and weigh them. When deciding whether to appear in court. In this study, we explore a different possibility for why defendants might miss court: simple human error. Although defendants are given all of the relevant information they need, they might be insufficiently aware of the information, it not be salient enough, or the defendants might forget it.”

Dan Gingiss (03:03):
In other words, they might be human?

Joey Coleman (03:06):
Exactly! A misnomer in the criminal justice system, I think for a lot of folks outside of the criminal justice system, who kind of presume that if you’re supposed to be in court, you must have some level of guilt, which of course is not at all the way it works – at least here in the United States. What I thought was interesting about this article, Dan is it described two large scale field studies conducted in New York city. And these studies explored ways to make defendants more aware of their court information. Now in the first study, the team redesigned the summons form that defendants receive for low level offenses to start with the old summons was labeled “Complaint Information. The People of the State of New York versus.” The new summons is labeled “Criminal Court Appearance Ticket.”

Dan Gingiss (03:54):
Yeah, that’s a little clearer!

Joey Coleman (03:56):
A little clear, a little less legalese. It’s pretty obvious what we’re dealing with here.

Dan Gingiss (04:03):
It’s just a little bit shy of get your “beep” to court.

Joey Coleman (04:07):
Let’s just say it’s right on the edge there. It’s pretty straightforward. The old summons had the court information far down the page and listed the date of the required appearance, and the location of the required appearance, in two different places on the complaint. The new summons moves the court date, the time and the court location to the top of the page, right underneath the defendant’s name – so it’s literally the first thing they see on the page after seeing their own name. And finally the old summons made passing reference to the consequences of failing, to appear for the court date, whereas the new and improved summons clearly States in bold typeface on the front of the form that missing the assigned court date will lead to a warrant being issued for your arrest.

Dan Gingiss (04:52):
You know, I can’t help, but think about the discussions we’ve had on this show about user experience, which of course is generally considered a digital term because it talks about the ability to navigate a website for example, or find what you’re looking for. But user experience can be everywhere. It can be in physical products and certainly it can be in a court summons. And I think that’s what they’ve done here is they’ve basically taken the most pertinent information and put it up front and made it clearer. They’ve boldfaced things that they want you to pay attention to. And they’ve used language that is simpler to understand, and those are all user experience things. So I’m going to go out on a limb and guess that this study resulted in more people showing up to their court appearances.

Joey Coleman (05:39):
Well, Dan, you may not have spent a lot of time in the criminal justice system. Good on you. Good law abiding citizen! But your instincts about the human condition are spot on. And they were proved out once again, in the criminal court system in New York, the result of using the new summons was pretty impressive as failure to appear. Rates went from 47% down to 40%. Now this 7% reduction avoided 23,000 warrants from being issued.

Dan Gingiss (06:13):
Wow. And if this were a business, you would start to calculate what’s the cost of issuing 23,000 warrants, and sending them out, and having the police follow up on them, and scheduling a new court date, and everybody’s time and all that sort of stuff. It must be substantial in terms of what the city was able to save from eliminating that many warrants, not to mention that people don’t really like it when they have a warrant out for their arrest. And if all you had to do is show up for, um, uh, what seems like a minor offense, it seems like it also provided a better experience if you will.

Joey Coleman (06:49):
Well, it provides a better experience. I think for everyone, for a couple of reasons, number one, this is keep in mind friends. This is a low level offense, these aren’t major crimes. Okay. So the fact of the matter is we don’t need to escalate to a warrant being issued for someone’s arrest. And in fact, we’ll talk about this later in the segment, but lots of times people miss their court date for really common reasons, but there’s this presumption that it’s nefarious because it’s criminal. So not only have we created a scenario where when they do come to court, everyone’s presuming that they must be bad because they didn’t come when they were supposed to. And we had to issue a warrant for their arrest, but imagine what it feels like to be the defendant and to be showing up in court in response to a warrant for your arrest and having a summons. And now you have two issues to deal with the original issue that the complaint was for, and on top of it, a warrant for your arrest for failure to comply with the complaint. So it gets pretty messy, pretty fast. But as if the results of this first study, weren’t impressive enough in a second companion study, the design team, augmented the form by sending text messages to highlight critical information in the week, leading up to the scheduled court appearance. So anyone who is willing to provide their cell phone number would receive a text message a few days before reminding them of the date and the time and the location of their appearance. And then another one the day before and defendants who didn’t receive text messages, fail to appear about 37.9% of the time in the study with text messages, those numbers dropped to 29% resulting in over 7,800 warrants being avoided on top of the ones that were already avoided by failure to appear because they didn’t know where there was supposed to go. So between the two impacts, we see double digit reduction in the number of warrants being issued and the number of people who are actually showing up as they were supposed to.

Dan Gingiss (08:53):
Well, it let’s back up a second here because you kind of glossed over something that I thought was pretty interesting in the studies. The city hired a design firm to design these letters, right? And that seems like a small thing. And yet look at what happened by focusing on, again, the user experience, all of the clarity of the letter or of the, of the text messages, but you wouldn’t necessarily think that a design firm would be needed for something like this. And I want to have, I want to challenge our listeners to think about places in your business, where maybe you do need a new set of eyes and you need somebody with some communication skills or different communication skills to come in and redesign. I don’t know, a welcome letter, an offer letter, a contract, something that may be causing confusion in your business, that, with simpler language highlighting the right things may eliminate that confusion.

Joey Coleman (09:52):
I couldn’t agree more Dan in your you’re absolutely right to be candid. I’m not exactly sure whether it was that they hired the design firm or the design firm was working with the scientists who were conducting the study, so I’m not exactly sure there, but what we do know is there were design elements that were enhanced in the printed summons form and improved on. And then they added the technological piece of the text messages, and then they ran a controlled science experiment to see what would happen. So this was not just a, Hey, this might be interesting to see what happens. No, there was actual data here. And what’s also fascinating is the impact it had in terms of people’s thought process. And I alluded to this earlier, but in some associated laboratory experiments, they ran at the same time that they were doing the tests – now, mind you, they did these in the lab, these weren’t with people that were actually receiving the summons – they kind of brought in groups to study their reactions. The researchers examined a lay persons and an experts belief about whether failures to appear were intentional or not. So they lifted a variety of lay people, a variety of experts from the criminal justice system and asked if somebody doesn’t show up for court when they’re supposed to, is that intentional or not? What was interesting is that study participants believed that failure to comply in criminal situations was more intentional and less accidental than in other domains, like missing a doctor’s appointment. If somebody was an expert, if they operated in the criminal justice system, they actually had better understanding that mistakes happen and that sometimes people just don’t show up. So what was fascinating is the lay people were actually harsher on the criminals or the alleged criminals in this case, then the actual people who worked in the criminal justice systems and the final findings showed that the people who saw the new forms were able to identify the court information more quickly and recalled it more accurately when asked about it later, which suggests that a meaningful portion of the defendants who fail to appear aren’t intentionally skipping court, but it’s really that they’re just unaware of the requirement to be in court.

Dan Gingiss (12:03):
Yeah. And this gets to the fundamental, I guess, argument in business that we think our customers know all that we know about our products and services, and yet we live and breathe them every day. So we are of course the experts in them and our customers often don’t have all that information. And that’s why self-service has become such a popular thing. The fact that we even have to self-serve sometimes is frustrating. But heck when we do, we want to be able to find information, don’t assume that your customers know everything about your business, how it operates, what you want them to do, how you want them to do it, and when you want them to do it. And I think that’s what the court system figured out was that just because it all made sense to us, does it mean that it made sense to in this case, the most important person, which is the person that we’re requiring to show up?

Joey Coleman (12:55):
Absolutely. You know, what can we take away from this? We recognize friends that the majority of you are not involved in the criminal justice system, but in almost every business on the planet, there are behaviors that your customers are doing that you’re not happy about. They’re not showing up. They’re not completing forms fully. They’re not putting the right signature. They’re not giving the data that you need so that you can continue to deliver on the service. They’re not doing these things that you think are pretty basic. We have a tendency as humans to presume that that’s because the other person is just not complying or they’re not respecting us, or they’re affirmatively deciding to go against our wishes or they’re not smart, or they’re not smart when the reality is it may be our fault. We may not have expressly stated what needed to be happened. We may have not presented it in a way that was clearly understood to your point earlier, Dan, which I absolutely loved. It’s time to look at the aspects of your business, where you’re not getting the level of customer compliance and participation that you want and ask, could we design the experience to be better? And as a result, get a better experience for our customer.

Joey Coleman (14:13):
You listened to us, nNow we want to listen to you. By visiting our website and sharing your remarkable customer experiences with us, we can share them with a broader audience. Now, sit back and enjoy our Listener Stories.

Joey Coleman (14:29):
Congrats are in order, Dan. But I think I should let you share the big news instead of me sharing the big news here.

Dan Gingiss (14:38):
Oh, thanks buddy. I really appreciate it. Well, uh, on February 14th Valentine’s day, I got engaged and I’m super excited to have, uh, found the love of my life. And, uh, our listeners, our astute listeners may know that, uh, this is my second time around, but that’s just because we had to, we had to practice first to get it right. And, and now, now we’re going to get it right this time. So super excited.

Joey Coleman (15:03):
I love it. I love it. So excited for you, Dan, so excited for your lovely bride to be. She has definitely found a fantastic guy and in the spirit of joyous celebration, but with a tinge of a cautionary tale, as you begin to think about what has preparations, I have a little story. One of our loyal listeners, Cody Wales is the Manager of Consumer Experience Design at Advent Health. And he had a frustrating experience recently, as you prepared for his wedding. And he reached out to tell us about it, here is Cody sharing what happened:

Cody Wales (15:40):
So I have a customer service failure that I wanted to share. Uh, recently I went to a made to measure suit and dress clothes company for my wedding for to get suits from myself and my groomsmen. Uh, we drove down to Miami, which was a three plus hour drive, to their showroom so that we could have their tailors and their team measure us to reduce the probability of any miss measurements. It was a great in-store experience, but then when it came time for the suits to arrive and for us to try them on, we found that my, one of my groomsmen’s sleeves were four inches, too small. So immediately I reached out to the customer service team and they said, yep, we’ll make a remake, you know, shipped by this day and three to five day shipping. It’ll be there in plenty of time. That time goes by and I’m following up multiple times, haven’t heard back and suddenly they reach out and say, we’re sorry, it’s not going to ship until the day before the wedding. Obviously this is a huge issue. And they said, yep, sorry. And that’s it. I got ” we’re sincerely sorry,” via email. Uh, nothing else still working on resolving the issue, but what a failure of making it right. They could have gone above and beyond for such an emotionally important event and made me a customer for life. But now it’s the opposites opposite experience that I’m telling everyone not to use the service because they let me down on my big day.

Dan Gingiss (17:09):
Well, obviously Cody didn’t go to Gingiss formal wear. That was the first problem. I love it. You noticed? No, it was not the family formal wear business. No, I know it wasn’t cause it isn’t there anymore. So I can say that with some confidence, but man, I, that, you know, that definitely sounds annoying. And I know my dad who was, is definitely listening now would say that one of the biggest challenges in this industry is that you really only have one chance to get it right, because the wedding or the graduation or the prom or whatever it is, the big day happens once. And if you screw up the clothes for the other, for the customer, you don’t get a second chance. And so it has to be perfect. And in this case, it seems like it was far from it.

Joey Coleman (17:57):
Absolutely. And you know, weddings are high stress as is. And to your point, they’re operating on a fixed deadline. So if you operate in any business, forget the wedding industry, any business that is high stress with a fixed deadline, you must be ready for last minute resolutions and realize that missing the deadline is just not an option. You know, sometimes you’re in a business where, you know, if, for example, if I’m ordering a book online and the book arrives two weeks from now, as opposed to two days from now, it may be annoying, but it’s probably not a major crisis unless I needed to read that book and write a book report on it, or unless I was, you know, doing a podcast about the book and needed to read the book before we had the conversation. But again, if you’re in this business or you can envision scenarios where your customers might be in high stress, fixed deadline scenarios, you’ve got to be ready for the last minute craziness.

Dan Gingiss (18:56):
Yeah, for sure. And I think what’s also interesting here is that Cody had a couple of choices. He could have measured himself and his groomsmen and submitted the results online, which is convenient, but understandably, maybe a little nerve wracking that you might not know how to do it correctly. You might mess it up. So he drove those three hours to the company’s show room and said he had a great experience doing that. But if the customer goes out of their way to reduce the chances of error, that it would seem to me that the company should go out of their way to, uh, reduce the chances of error or at least to resolve things when an error happens. And obviously one of the other challenges here is that he couldn’t call customer service. There was only online options and those online options weren’t helpful. And I think about, uh, when people ask me how available they should be on social media, do they have to, you know, be around 24/7 to answer customer comments and complaints and I always say, it depends on what business you’re in, right? If you’re an international airline. Yeah. You bet you’re going to have to be there 24 seven. If you’re a mom and pop grocery store, no, you don’t have to, you can be there during business hours. But man, if you’re a company that provides people with clothing for their wedding at, which is a high stress and time sensitive situation, and you’re not there to answer their questions or to provide customer service, you’re not going to keep customers very long. And I do want to point out that at the end of Cody’s recording, he talks about how he’s telling everyone not to use this service. Right? And, and, and the reverse could have been true. He could have been talking about how great it was and how they have a customer for life. But instead he is telling people not to. And this is, this is the difference folks. This is the difference between having a happy customer who tells other people and creates more customers for you or having a disgruntled customer who tells other people and keeps new customers from coming to you. It seems like a simple choice.

Joey Coleman (21:00):
It’s it does seem like a simple choice, Dan, but you know, we wouldn’t have careers and a show. If everybody got this and behaved accordingly, right? This, the fact that things are going to go wrong is not what we’re trying to prevent, because things will always go wrong. There’s always the chance that something is outside of your control or mistakes happen, or situations arise that create scenarios that we’re not happy about, or that our customers aren’t happy about. But how we respond to those scenarios is what changes the story. And in fact, you can actually hear it in Cody’s recording. You know, he, when the suit arrives and the, it doesn’t fit, it’s like, Oh, okay. I reached out right away to let them know so that hopefully we could get things taken care of. And they’re like, Oh yeah, we’ll get to work on that right away. Up until that point in the story, if they actually delivered, Cody would probably be singing their praises. And would, even though there had been the misfire in the mistake, you would probably be like, you know, it didn’t go as well as I would have wanted on the first try, but man, they hustled and they got it done. And we were able to still pull off the wedding with no problems. The issue. I think if we really listened to the story that he shares, is that he didn’t feel that there was a proper level of empathy or apology for what happened. And I think the secret here is you need to quickly evaluate the significance of the problem when something comes up for your customers. And it’s not about how bad you think it is as the provider is the business. It’s about how bad the customer thinks the situation is. And if you are going to fail, you got to make sure that the apology is both sincere and significant.

Dan Gingiss (22:39):
Absolutely. I mean, I would have liked to see this company drive those same three hours from the showroom to the wedding location to deliver the suit, rather than putting it in the mail and depending on some shipping service to get it there on time as well! So there are things that you can do. And again, you know, you want to avoid the problem in the first place, but if you have a problem, how you react is going to go a long way to determining what customers do next and who they tell about it.

Joey Coleman (23:07):
Now, as you’ll notice, we didn’t mention the name of the made to measure suit company during this segment, because we have a policy here on experience, this of avoiding any brand shaming for bad experiences, but guess what? Customers don’t have that same policy when something goes wrong, they do name names and they are happily telling everyone they know not to do business with you because of the result of their bad experience. Now, if you want to make sure that customers are singing your praises, you need to make sure that you have systems and processes in place to make sure that when things do go wrong, like they did with Cody sued, you do everything to make it right. And speaking of spreading the word about remarkable customer experiences, if you’ve got an amazing customer story to share, or even a story of an interaction gone bad, we’d love to hear about it. Just visit the Contact Page at ExperienceThisShow.com and you’ll be able to leave us a voice recording and share your story. We’re excited to hear about your experiences and hope you’ll make the time to share for our next listener story.

Joey Coleman (24:11):
Almost everyone has interacted with chatbots, but all too often, it’s been a bad experience. In MythBusters – presented by Solvvy – we explore a common myth about CX chatbots and see how the right technology can create a positive experience, every time.

Joey Coleman (24:35):
Today’s myth about chatbots? It’s hard to measure the ROI of a chat bot. You might be thinking about adding a chat bot and automation tool to your website or your app, but it might not be a hundred percent sure about making the business case for adding this type of technology. Perhaps you’re concerned that proving the return on investment will be too difficult.

Dan Gingiss (24:57):
But the fact of the matter is it’s very easy to both measure and report on the value you get from a next gen customer support chat bot. The easiest way to make the case is by looking at how many customer questions, a chat bot resolves all on its own versus how many questions need to be resolved by contacting your customer care agents. Each instant resolution equals time and cost savings for your team. Often measured internally as cost per ticket or a similar metric add up instant resolutions and you can see how many tickets aren’t being created and how much agent time you’re saving straightforward.

Joey Coleman (25:32):
That’s simple ROI math to me, Dan! But you don’t even have to do the math next gen chatbots come equipped with intelligent dashboards that very quickly give you this information and tons more right out of the box. So it couldn’t be easier to explain and demonstrate the savings you’re getting immediately. Now there are other benefits to chat bots of course. Customers will love getting their answers quickly. Agents will love not having to field simple, repetitive questions all day. And when something goes wrong, like I don’t know a wedding suit that doesn’t fit properly. Your chat bot can make sure to properly escalate things, saving you time, money, and your reputation. The ROI for adopting better next gen chat bots and automation tools is easy to calculate once you project and then quickly prove the huge savings you’re getting.

Dan Gingiss (26:20):
And that’s another Myth Busted thanks to our friends at Solvvy – the Next Gen chatbot.

Joey Coleman (26:28):
We love telling stories and sharing key insights you can implement, or avoid, based on our experiences. Can you believe that This Just Happened?

Joey Coleman (26:42):
One of the best things about my recent move to Iowa with my family is that I’m getting to spend more time with my nieces and nephews. And recently my wonderful niece, Charlotte, had a memorable sixth birthday experience. Now my brother, KC, who is Charlotte’s dad, explained what happened in a post that he wrote about on Facebook. And I’m going to quote his post and then kind of interject as we go to explain some of the things for our listeners.

Joey Coleman (27:10):
“Over the course of the last year, our family outings have been rather limited due to COVID. That being said, riding to town is frequently a highlight for our cabin fever country kids. Charlotte would consistently get excited as we drove past Shikmat Motor Company, and would profusely express her need to drive over the new Stonewall display at the corner of their dealership.” Now friends and listeners, I need to interject here to explain this wall to people who don’t live in my local community here in Iowa. At Shikmat Motors, they recently installed a large rock wall display. (You can see pictures in the shownotes at ExperienceThisShow.com). But when I say large, I mean five to six feet tall, 10 to 12 feet wide, and about 80 to a hundred feet long made of stone. Now the wall actually has a ramp running along the top so that the folks at Shikmat can drive cars up the ramp and then park them on the wall for a nice display. Well, let me get back to the story my brother KC is telling. “Charlotte wanted to do this so badly that she asked every time we drove past and may or may not have suggested that we quote “sneak in at night when they’re all sleeping to drive over the wall.” This is Joey. Again, to be clear as my niece’s official legal representation, we do not admit to that allegation. Okay. Sorry. Back to the story once more. “On Friday, Charlotte got her chance as she turned six years old and the team at Shikmat made her birthday extra special. Not only did they let her drive the Shikmat golf cart over the wall, but they also greeted her at the door with a happy birthday and a logoed Jeep duffel bag filled with balloons and car themed presents waiting for her. Our family was so impressed by the team and their willingness to make our little girl’s day. We can’t thank them enough for a memory that will last forever. This was such a simple but special win, and it is utterly refreshing to see a business go out of their way to do something so selfless. If you are thinking about a new vehicle, the team at Shikmat is truly amazing and they’re more than willing to do whatever it takes to provide a great “future” customer experience. Happy birthday to our sweet little girl and thank you Shikmat Motor Company for making her birthday wish come true.

Dan Gingiss (29:27):
All right, now I have to ask Shikmat Motor Company know about uncle Joey?!

Joey Coleman (29:34):
They don’t that it’s the crazy thing about this. They do not know anything about me. They do not know any of the things. Let me give a little more background story. So this literally I’ve heard about this for months. My niece is constantly talking about this, but I didn’t know what my brother had done. So one day he’s driving by and he’s like, you know what? I’m just going to go in and see if I can make something happen. So he drives in, in his Ford pickup, to a dealership that sells Dodge, Ram, Chrysler, and Jeep brands. And he asked the salesman, Hey, would it be possible to arrange somehow for me to be able to drive over the wall with my daughter for her sixth birthday, right? I mean total craziness, but the salesman says, you know, that’s totally fine with me, but I should probably check with a manager. This salesperson was willing to go the extra distance to ask to advocate and guess what they said, yes.

Dan Gingiss (30:41):
I think that’s amazing. And I’m sure that Charlotte, and KC, and you will never forget that experience, which is awesome. And again, we mentioned this in a previous segment. I want to point out that your brother ended his post by saying, if you’re thinking about a new vehicle, let me recommend the folks at Shikmat, even though he’s not a customer.

Joey Coleman (31:03):
He’s not a customer, but I will tell you, what’s interesting. I asked him about that that night. I said when, when they taught week, cause she came over for a birthday and of course my niece was raving about you just driven the wall at Shikmat and had this amazing experience. And I asked him and he said, you know, when we buy our next car, that’s where we’re going. Like it literally changed their purchase decision. And as you know, Dan cars, not the cheapest investment, like this is a major impact in terms of the bottom line at Shikmat, because not only will my brother buy his next vehicle there, but I gotta tell you, I’m sitting here thinking when it’s time for me to buy a vehicle, I want to go there as well, as does my family as does a lot of people in our community that are hearing this story.

Dan Gingiss (31:47):
Absolutely. And that’s why, whatever it costs them to do this, it was worth it. Now I do know that you’re the recovering lawyer on the show, but I, I got to say, I was a little bit worried about maybe the insurance implications of this.

Joey Coleman (32:01):
You know, Dan, you are not a lawyer, but you could play one on TV with that type of question. I love it.

Dan Gingiss (32:05):
Or at least on a podcast!

Joey Coleman (32:05):
At least on a podcast. So for insurance reasons, they couldn’t have my brother, or a six-year-old for that matter, drive my brother’s truck or one of the showroom models over the wall. But the team at Shikmat got creative and what they could allow was them to drive the golf cart that they have on site to like try people around the dealership. So it allowed them to avoid any insurance concerns. And my six year old niece, Charlotte got to sit on my brother’s lap and actually steer so she was quote unquote the one actually “driving” the golf cart over the wall.

Dan Gingiss (32:44):
Well, that’s fantastic. And I can tell you as a parent of two teenagers, golf carts are very, very appealing to kids. Like the coolest thing ever. I’ve actually been asked. No joke. When I was asking my 15 year old son, what he wanted for his birthday, he said, can I get it golf cart? And I was like, what are you going to do with that? So I love it. Yeah, clearly is a lot of fun. And I think it’s such a great story. I love that they added the, the Jeep swag. I think that made it more special. So she had something to take home. And like I said, this is an experience she’ll never forget. And it doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with selling Jeep vehicles. Although as you noted it eventually will connect to selling Jeep vehicles.

Joey Coleman (33:33):
It absolutely will. And here’s the interesting thing. Not only did the folks at Shikmat not know that I had a customer experience podcast, but they didn’t ask my brother to tell this story now, to be clear prior to him posting about it on Facebook. And prior to us recording the show, he asked them, is it okay if I promote this and tell this story? And they were like, yeah, we’d love that. But you don’t have to. Here’s where it gets really interesting. So since the birthday surprise happened, my brother of course has shared it in dozens of conversations. And so have I, and now of course, we’re talking about it on the podcast. So tens of thousands of people all around the world, they’re going to be listening to it. He also did a Facebook post that within 48 hours had received 245 likes and over 40 comments, which is pretty amazing engagement. But what really caught my attention is over 20 people shared the post and these are people that live in the community. Now I’m not going to call out Shikmator any other type of auto dealership, but let me tell you, I’ve spent enough time on auto dealers websites to know that it’s pretty rare that they do a post on Facebook that gets 245 likes over 40 comments and 20 shares. So the moral of the story here is when your customers are raving about you, that’s marketing, you can’t buy, but you can generate that kind of marketing when you’re willing to do things that are unique and unexpected.

Dan Gingiss (35:03):
Absolutely! Creating positive experiences gets people to share. We know because we’ve shared the shared the research here on the show that people are more willing to share positive experiences than negative ones. It’s just that we don’t have enough positive ones to share. And so when we actually have a positive experience, we want to tell people about it. I’ve done this survey tons of times to audiences. When I’m doing a keynote speech, I’ll ask the audience, raise your hand. If you remember the last time you were wowed by a brand and you couldn’t wait, tell people about it. And two, three, maybe four hands go up. And then I say, now raise your hand. If you remember the last time you were disappointed by a brand, every hand in the audience goes up. I mean, and that’s why I do it right? Cause it works every single time. We don’t have enough positive experiences to share, which is why, if you’re listening to the show, one of the tens of thousands that you referenced, creating positive experiences can become your best marketing because when other people are talking about how great you are, it sounds better. It’s more credible. It’s more genuine. If I say that, Joey is a fantastic keynote speaker. That sounds a lot better than Joey saying that Joey is a fantastic keynote speaker, right? And I know he is because I’ve seen him speak. So that’s more credible. And you know, I’ve never heard of this car dealership before, but I can tell you the next time I’m driving through Iowa, I’m going to determine if I need a car right then and there. Cause I want to go see these guys just because of a story that you’ve now shared.

Joey Coleman (36:36):
I love it, Dan. So what can we all learn from this story? Even those of us that aren’t involved with a car dealership? Other than my little brother, KC, who is clearly a rock star dad… when you go above and beyond to create remarkable experiences, people want to talk about it. I have to imagine that the team at Shikmat Motors in little old Fort Dodge, Iowa never expected a prospective six year old customer would want to drive over their new stone wall. But when they realized they could make a birthday celebration, that won’t soon be forgotten, they leapt at the chance. Now I’m guessing that’s why they’ve been in business for 70 years now, and will probably be in business for at least another seventy years.

Joey Coleman (37:16):
Thanks for joining us for another episode of Experience This! You’re the best listener ever.

Dan Gingiss (37:28):
And since you listened to the whole show…

Joey Coleman (37:29):
Yay you!

Dan Gingiss (37:31):
Were curious, was there a specific part of this episode that you enjoyed the most? If so, it would mean the world to us if you could share it with a coworker, a friend, or someone that just loves listening to podcasts.

Joey Coleman (37:41):
And while you’re in the sharing mood, if you felt inclined to jump over to iTunes, or wherever you find your podcasts, and write us a review, we would so appreciate it. And when you do, don’t forget to let us know as we might have a little surprise for you.

Dan Gingiss (37:57):
Thanks again for your time and we’ll see you next week for more,

Joey Coleman (38:00):
Experience

Dan Gingiss (38:00):
This!

Episode 124 – A Daily Dose of Personalized Experience

Join us as we discuss a new way to take your vitamins, how government regulations affect businesses, and creating intentional friction in e-commerce.

Caring, Legislating, and Preventing– Oh My!

Referenced in the Show

• Care/of – personalized daily vitamins – receive 50% off your first order using Dan’s affiliate link: https://takecareof.com/invites/dgyygc

• Facebook Encourages Regulation

• “Friction in e-commerce: Sometimes it’s a good thing.” – by Branwell Moffatt on The Future of Customer Engagement & Experience

• Season 5, Episode 101 – Agree to Disagree: The Benefits and Costs of More Convenience (discussing Privacy)

• Season 2, Episode 42 – Required Remarkable: Assembling Target Furniture

Host Contact Information

Email Dan: Dan@dangingiss.com

Tweet Dan Gingiss: @DGingiss

Email Joey: JoeyC@JoeyColeman.com

DanGingiss.com

JoeyColeman.com

Subscribe to Experience This on Apple Podcasts

Learn more about our Season 7 Partner – Solvvy – The NextGen Chatbot

Episode Transcript

Download an unedited transcript of Episode 124 here or read it below:

Joey Coleman (00:05):
Welcome to Experience This!

Dan Gingiss (00:07):
The podcast that celebrates remarkable customer experiences and inspires you to stand out from the competition by wowing your customers.

Joey Coleman (00:17):
Each episode, we bring you a healthy dose of inspiring stories, funny interactions, and practical takeaways. Marketing and customer experience thought leader Dan Gingiss…

Dan Gingiss (00:30):
shares the mic with customer retention and employee experience expert, Joey Coleman, helping you to get people talking about your business.

Joey Coleman (00:40):
So get ready because it’s time to Experience This!

Dan Gingiss (00:49):
Get ready for another episode of the Experience This! Show!

Joey Coleman (00:55):
Join us as we discuss a new way to take your vitamins, how government regulations affect businesses, and creating intentional friction in e-commerce.

Dan Gingiss (01:08):
Caring, Legislating, and Preventing – oh my!

Joey Coleman (01:16):
Sometimes a remarkable experience deserves deeper investigation. We dive into the nitty gritty of customer interactions and dissect how, and why, they happen. Join us while we’re Dissecting the Experience.

Dan Gingiss (01:33):
You know, Joey, I think it was the great Hulk Hogan that said, “Say your prayers and take your vitamins!” If I recall…

Joey Coleman (01:40):
I cannot believe we just started this segment with a Hulk Hogan quote. For those paying attention at home, that is your second Hulk Hogan reference this season because you also referenced it in the LEGO episode I did about the Iron Man Hulk Buster costume.

Dan Gingiss (01:57):
I did, I’m going to use it as an Easter egg for the rest of the season… Look out for more Hulk references! The Hulkster always told us to take our vitamins and I Joey, having a new way of taking vitamins. And I wanted to share with you because I actually acted on it based on a recommendation from a friend – my friend, Sarah Grace McCandless – and of course think about that people that’s word of mouth marketing. That is what’s happening right there!

Joey Coleman (02:25):
You bought something! Positive review led to positive new customer acquisition.

Dan Gingiss (02:31):
Yes. Based on a great experience of somebody else and we will put a link by the way to “Care Of” – this is a vitamin company they are at “takecareof.com” and we have a link in the show notes. And when you get to their website, it says, you know, your body, we know the science let’s work together. And the first thing that happens, yeah. The first thing that happens is it asks you to take a survey and it asks these questions that are not particularly hard, but they ask you heart health and brain and memory function, things about your hair, skin and bones, your health goals, and even things like stress, and whether you believe in things like Eastern medicine and you know, natural supplements. The whole thing took less than five minutes and the result was a list of vitamins and supplements, and a package that included a 30 day supply tailored specifically to me.

Joey Coleman (03:29):
So let me get this right? You take this quick survey, you tell them what’s going on with your body, what you need, what you don’t need, et cetera, et cetera, what you believe, what you don’t believe, and in less than five minutes, you’re getting some hyper-personalized vitamins, vitamins made just for you?

Dan Gingiss (03:45):
Indeed. That is True, Joey. But the experience does not stop there. So first of all, I’m going to share my results with you – And I don’t think we’re breaking any any HIPAA laws here, Cause it’s mine…

Joey Coleman (03:56):
HIPPA alert, HIPPA alert. It’s your stuff. You can say whatever you want!

Dan Gingiss (04:00):
It’s my own, so I guess you give up your right to privacy when you share it with everyone. So here’s what the system told me, according to my answers, that I should be taking. The first thing was ashwagandha, which I had to look up, and that was because that was for my brain and it was because, and I quote, “you told us you have trouble concentrating sometimes” Yeah, exactly. I guess…

Joey Coleman (04:24):
Ashwagandha gonna need some of that!

Dan Gingiss (04:27):
Yeah, here we come. Uh, then I was a, suggested some [inaudible] for my heart because I told them that I had slightly elevated cholesterol. Uh, also some garlic for my heart and then, uh, calcium, because I love this one. It said, “you told us you live in the North and rarely eat dairy.” That is true. Ladies and gentlemen, we live in the North and rarely eat dairy. And then some American ginseng for a little stress relief.

Joey Coleman (04:56):
I didn’t know there was such a thing as American ginseng, but okay, great.

Dan Gingiss (05:00):
There is. And I got this thing. So those are all, uh, vitamins in there, either capsules or little, you know, swallowable pills. But then I also got something that was called the pocket. Protector was just, that was kind of a funny name. And it’s a blend of lactobacillus rhamnosus GG and Bifidobacterium lactis BL-04, which obviously you know…

Joey Coleman (05:23):
Did it come with a pronunciation guide cause I’m feeling like it must have. You’re doing a great job on this! I have no, I’d like to buy a vowel, yeah – I’m not sure what’s going on there.

Dan Gingiss (05:33):
Those happened to be two strains of probiotics that help support the body’s immune system, because it’s specifically asked in this day and age about whether you were around anyone that might be immunocompromised or whether you were, you know, in any particular reason, wanting to, uh, to boost your immunity and who doesn’t these days. So now I want to tell you about the experience of receiving the vitamin. So I said, hit me. I ordered it up and I get this box. Now it comes in a bright red box, which really stands out in the mail and it has very clever messages on it. I don’t want to ruin them, but you know that I love clever language and witty language.

Joey Coleman (06:09):
I do know that you love clever. Are we going to include some photos on the website? Do we have some of those or are they the kind of messages that well I’m asking, because I don’t know that we should reveal too much. Like if…

Dan Gingiss (06:21):
I think we can. Yeah, it’s fine. It’s fine. So you open it up. And the first thing that you see is a guidebook and right on the cover, it says “Made for Dan” almost like, Oh wow, nice.

Joey Coleman (06:31):
Simple personalization. All they did was use his name and before you opened any further than the guidebook, my gut instinct is the endorphins are flowing. You’re feeling good about what’s going on cause this was made for you!

Dan Gingiss (06:46):
Yeah. And, and not surprisingly in this guide book were all of the vitamins that I had selected along with their supplement facts, which is like the nutritional info chart that you see on food, if similar ones for supplements. And as it is now, when I learned that they have clever nicknames for each one of these. So my ashwagandha pill is called the Chill Pill because focus and cognitive function, the garlic is called the Vampire Slayer, and the American ginseng is called the “Study Buddy,” because it supports memory and focus. Now here’s where it really gets cool. You get this dispenser box, this beautiful dispenser box that has daily pill packets in it. And you pull out a packet. Now, each packet is made from a hundred percent compostable material. They have

Joey Coleman (07:35):
Ooo I like it! Environmentally friendly, paying attention, I love it!

Dan Gingiss (07:38):
They have really neat quotes on them. Or sometimes it’s a challenge or, or a fact, uh, they say, “Hi Dan,”

Joey Coleman (07:46):
To make sure I understand, their are messages on the individual pill packs that you’re pulling out every day?

Dan Gingiss (07:50):
Yes. And every message starts with “Hi Dan,” and then it has either a quote, a fact or a challenge. And so for example, one of the facts was that historically peanuts have been used as one of the ingredients in dynamite.

Joey Coleman (08:03):
Oh, nice. Nice.

Dan Gingiss (08:05):
See, you learned something new today too, didn’t you?

Joey Coleman (08:06):
I did learn that new, ironically enough, uh, having my grandparents’ farm when I was growing up, had dynamite on the farm and they kept it in a tin shed next to the house where we would actually go out and watch the dynamite sweat! But I didn’t know that dynamite had peanuts in it. So yeah, that’s an interesting newfound fact.

Dan Gingiss (08:24):
Well, and then there was also a quote from a famous philosopher and it said, uh, “you can’t be that kid standing at the top of the water slide, overthinking it. You have to go down the chute.” And of course that famous philosopher is actress and comedian Tina Fey. So that gave me a little bit of a laugh, but this whole presentation is so amazing and it sits on my desk. And every day I open up my pill pack, I take my vitamins. I bring the empty pack over to the compost machine after reading the quote or whatever it is, and I feel like I’m taking exactly what I need for Dan. Not for anybody else.

Joey Coleman (09:05):
I love it. And this feels like such a better experience across the board. Not the least of which is the pre- personalized experience like the one you just described of going and buying, you know, the bottle of multivitamins hat it presumes that every human that buys this bottle needs the exact same mix of the same things. And you never know exactly what’s in it or, you know, is it fresh? Is it old? Is it new? Is it for you? Is it not for you, et cetera? This one is…

Dan Gingiss (09:37):
I buy the ones that we should have, the one for men, so it must be right.

Joey Coleman (09:41):
That’s nice. Yeah, exactly. No, I love this. And I think it speaks to this trend that we’ve talked about on the show before, where healthcare is something that every human needs and with all due respect to our friends and colleagues that work in healthcare, this system is just fundamentally broken right now. We, there are so many of opportunities to improve and enhance the experience. There’s a lot of room for growth there and a lot of opportunity for us to improve.

Dan Gingiss (10:07):
You’re so right, Joey, I mean healthcare itself has to be personalized. All of our bodies are different. We react to different things. We might be long or short, certain nutrients, et cetera. And so I think this plays on a number of themes. Obviously personalization is one of them. And we’ve talked about that a lot on the show, but health and wellbeing is such a hot topic right now, especially with people at home and not being able to exercise as much as maybe we used to. And just generally being more stressed and uncomfortable. Uh, and also this idea of brand connection, which we’ve talked about to look, these vitamins are not as cheap as the multivitamins for men that I buy at the drug store.

Joey Coleman (10:49):
Dan – I was going to ask, can you give us a ballpark idea? Because I’m sure people are listening. They’re like, wow. And you know, and lots of times the thought is, well, if it’s going to be this amazing experience it probably means it’s going to be a luxury pricing. But it sounds like while it’s more than maybe the typical vitamins you would buy at the drug store, it’s not like crazy, insane, expensive – would I be correct in assuming?

Dan Gingiss (11:09):
All in – including shipping – it was maybe 39 bucks for a 30 day supply. So, and that had five different vitamins as well as the pocket protector, the immune system stuff. So yeah, I didn’t think it was too bad. It’s more than I would normally spend, but I really loved, and frankly, I’m still taking the multivitamin because the multivitamin doesn’t have any of those things in it. It doesn’t have the ashwagandha, it doesn’t have ginseng in it. So I’ve actually added. But again, I felt like, you know, I feel like the company knows me and I’ve gone back in by the way and adjusted some of my answers to play around with it a little bit. And so for example, the first time I’d asked me, I’ll obviously I I’ll the joke before you do, but when it asked me about hair,

Joey Coleman (11:55):
Do you need some hair? I was gonna say, does ginseng help with hair growth? What’s going on here?

Dan Gingiss (11:59):
Yeah, but I, you know, like I went in and like retook the skin and nails part. I was like, Oh, well, what happens if I say that I, you know, am interested in nail strength or whatever. And I just wanted to see how the things change.

Joey Coleman (12:11):
Do you get, do you get different answers then? And did they send you different stuff?

Dan Gingiss (12:14):
You do – and you can, at any point retake the survey, or sometimes they ask in this particular case, they asked me the next time I logged on, they said, Hey, would you like to take an additional couple of questions about, about nails and skin? And I said, sure, why not? And so then it recommended two more. I haven’t ordered those yet, but the whole point is personalization, connection with a brand, and health and wellbeing – these are all themes that are really hot. And I think they’ve done a great job putting the whole package together and really making me feel like I’m doing something good for me. And so I highly recommend it. Thank you to Sarah Grace McCandless for recommending it to me. And I’ll recommend it to our listeners as well. And again, we’ll put a link in the shownotes!

Joey Coleman (13:00):
Just because you have required elements of your business doesn’t mean they need to be boring! It’s time to get creative, have some fun, and make people sit up and take notice. Get your customers talking when you Make the Required Remarkable.

Dan Gingiss (13:20):
You know, Joey, I still read the newspaper – like an actual paper newspaper.

Joey Coleman (13:27):
Dad? What’s a newspaper?

Dan Gingiss (13:30):
Exactly. I feel like, I feel like I’ve heard that question before.

Joey Coleman (13:34):
You’re a bit old school… I understand that I actually read a printed newspaper as well. I read the Sunday, New York Times every week, but not, I think you read daily, don’t you?

Dan Gingiss (13:43):
I read, I get a, uh, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, and Sunday subscription to the Chicago Tribune. And I don’t know why they do that.

Joey Coleman (13:53):
I know this segment isn’t about that, I presume it’s not about the Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and Sunday. It must have to do in the Cubs play? I don’t know. It’s something like that.

Dan Gingiss (14:03):
If it was actually when the Cubs play, I’ll probably go to seven days a week because then I want to read it even more. Anyway, it kind of comes from the fact that when I was in college, I was an editor of the college paper, the Daily Pennsylvania, and I’m now on the board of directors so I still, I believe in journalism, I believe in newspapers, yes. Any event, it was somewhat surprising to me to come across a full page printed advertisement from Facebook. And it stood out to me, not because it was from Facebook, but because it had an actual size image or maybe a little bit bigger of, are you ready for this? A floppy disk.

Joey Coleman (14:40):
Wow. Now that is a blast from the past Dan. I have not thought about a floppy disc in a very, very long time. Now let me clarify here. It was an ad for Facebook, with a floppy disk, but was Facebook even around at the time that there were floppy that like I remember using floppy disc and I remember getting onto Facebook. I don’t remember if those two things overlapped in any way, shape or form.

Dan Gingiss (15:04):
Well, it’s a good question. Facebook actually launched in 2004 and by that time, floppy discs were really already on their way out. And this was a picture if you’ll recall, because I know you, you and I are roughly the same age, certainly if I’m a little older and wiser, but this was the three and a half inch one, the hard floppy desk, which I sound a bit of an oxymoron, but the hard one versus those old bendable ones you remember that were bigger.

Joey Coleman (15:30):
Right, right.

Dan Gingiss (15:30):
And anyway, the headline of the ad read and I’m quoting the last time comprehensive internet regulations were passed. This is how files were shared. And the aunt goes on to say, it’s been 25 years since comprehensive internet regulations were passed. It’s time for an update. We support updated internet regulations to set clear guidelines for addressing today’s toughest challenges, learn more at: about.fb.com/regulations. So of course, since I thought this was really fascinating, I had to go to that website.

Joey Coleman (16:04):
So you thought to yourself, “Hmm… Fascinating PR move Facebook! Let’s see what’s going on on this landing page.

Dan Gingiss (16:11):
Exactly. So I went there and it says on the website, “We continue to take critical steps to improve and secure our platforms. Facebook is not waiting for regulation. We’re continuing to make progress on key issues. We’ve tripled our security and safety teams to more than 35,000 people and built new privacy tools. We’re also working with tech peers to make it easier for people to move their data between platforms securely.” And then it says that “Facebook is interested in promoting more legislation around a few topics.” Now let me stop there for a minute. They want more regulation. Now you used to work in government, Joey…

Joey Coleman (16:48):
I did – and I’m a recovering attorney as well. Uh, so here’s the thing, there’s a part of me that reads this and says, wow, okay, nice. I like that. They’re promoting for some regulation because the internet is the wild West. And while I didn’t know that the last time we had comprehensive internet regulation, the floppy disc was the King of file transfer I do now. But I’d be lying if I didn’t say Dan, that a part of me feels like this is a little bit of a “don’t break us up. Don’t break us up. We’d love to be in favor of new rules and new laws” that it’s a little bit of a, a logistical legal strategy. Move here to act like they’re for these things, because we know for anybody that’s been paying attention to what’s going on in the justice department, in the antitrust lawsuit. So it’s maybe just me of all the people listening, but we know there’s this pending case coming against Facebook that’s, I would posit, there’s a better than 50% chance, likelihood that they’re getting broken up in the next two and a half years.

Dan Gingiss (17:50):
Well, I’m glad you asked this joy because as we like to do here on the show, I reached out to Mark Zuckerberg to give us audio. Yeah. And listeners, he said, no, so we’re not going to have any audio from Mark, but I see, I hear what you’re saying Joey. And here’s what I thought about this. So I came from the healthcare industry and the financial services industry, both are, which are two of the most highly regulated industries in the United States. And over a period of time, I started to adapt some of my own philosophies about regulation. And in fact, in particular HIPAA, which we mentioned in the last segment, which is the privacy laws in the United States around healthcare information, HIPAA also has not been updated since the advent of social media or at least since 2004, when Facebook came aboard. And I know this because when I worked in healthcare, I read the entire HIPAA law.

Joey Coleman (18:46):
Such a good overachiever.

Dan Gingiss (18:47):
I know. Well, you know, I’m, I’m a recovering wanna-be-attorney. So in that way, but what’s fascinating is that here we have one of the most major pieces of legislation in our country on privacy. And it, there is no reference to social media. And so you think, well, gosh, all these years later, maybe somebody should update the darn thing and explain what that means. And I had a real case when I worked at Humana, where we had this situation where somebody left us this really long post on Facebook, talking all about her daughter’s illness and how we had rejected her claim. Now it turned out that the rejection of the claim made perfect sense because the doctor had actually prescribed the wrong thing. And so the claim was properly rejected and he just needed to re-prescribe it. Well, the lawyers initially did not want us to say anything, not even to acknowledge with any sort of response and, you know…

Joey Coleman (19:41):
’cause it was on social media. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right.

Dan Gingiss (19:45):
And you know how that made me feel?

Joey Coleman (19:46):
Yeah. The lawyers basically took the standard move of, let’s avoid any likelihood of the appearance of impropriety by even commenting on this, and you being somebody who puts customer experience far above legal requirements, obviously you want to play within the bounds, but you’re going to try to, over-index on taking care of the customer. You’re like, no, we need to respond to this!

Dan Gingiss (20:07):
Well. But also it didn’t make logical sense to me because I figured, Hey, if somebody is going to come to social media and tell the world that they have XYZ disease, what privacy are we protecting anymore? They’ve already, they’ve waited. Right. And so what’s, you know, and so how could you hold a company responsible then it’s not, they didn’t share the data in any event. The philosophy that I came up with in both industries is that I actually think most government regulation has the right idea in mind, the right ideas to protect the customer and to make sure that the little guy isn’t taken advantage of by big companies. Now from a CX perspective, I find that most of this regulation, when you just boil it down to what are they trying to achieve, it actually makes good sense from a customer experience perspective, right? We don’t want to screw over our customers either so inadvertently or on purpose. And so the concept is there, it’s usually where it usually falls apart is in the execution, is that, that then we’ll have, uh, you know, the government telling us how to protect people’s privacy. And, and I want to get into politics here, but I’m a believer that business can figure that out in a more innovative way. In any event, I think it’s smart to Facebook, whether it’s a PR play or not to get out in front of legislation before it happens, because then they at least have a chance to impact it and to have their voice included in it. I think they probably resigned themselves to the fact that we’re going to have new legislation at some point breakup or no breakup. And so, Hey, we might as well be part of the solution. And for that, I, maybe I’m giving them some benefit of the doubt, but I think that smart, I’d like to see the healthcare industry push for an update to HIPAA, to include social media. It’s something that’s missing. It should be there. And I, if I were still in the healthcare industry, I’d want to help write that.

Joey Coleman (21:58):
I think that makes, I think that makes perfect sense Dan. What I will say is that what is fascinating to me and let’s, let’s narrow the scope of this conversation. If we could briefly just to the concept of privacy, cause we’ve talked about it in the context of HIPAA, let’s look at it in a context of two of the biggest, three of the biggest texts, tech players in the space, Facebook, Google, and Apple. All three have remarkably different beliefs, actions, policies, attitudes around privacy. And depending on where you personally fall on the privacy meter, you are necessarily drawn towards the behavior of one or the others accordingly because their corporate beliefs or viewpoint or perspective aligns with your personal viewpoint or perspective. I happen to think that what Apple is doing about really saying, look, we are, we’re going to go toe to toe with Google and with Facebook, and we are going to be champions of protecting your privacy. There are some people that, that is going to actually decrease the experience because it’s not going to make things as convenient. You’re not going to be able to be fed ads based on, you know, certain data that these tools were collecting. But I do think that it’s carving out a space in the customer experience where they will attract a certain type of customer. And so I agree with you. I think what we’re seeing is that the companies are leading the charge on these legal issues and the behaviors they’re taking, because let’s be candid, the legislators are just woefully behind and, and I come from a family of politicians and lawyers, I say that respectfully, but you can’t see senators grilling Mark Zuckerberg on Capitol Hill in a hearing saying, but wait a second, how do you make money without saying, “okay, Boomer.

Dan Gingiss (23:55):
Do your homework.

Joey Coleman (23:56):
as the kids would say, I wouldn’t say that, but you know, go, go do your homework. Like you have to understand how this technology works a little bit, if you’re going to be asked to write laws about it.

Dan Gingiss (24:07):
Right. And, and I, Oh, I wonder in the healthcare space, you know, how many people in healthcare are helping to write healthcare laws, right? Because if you just have politicians writing healthcare laws, you’re gonna run into problems. Anyway, you might remember by the way for, uh, uh, listeners of longtime listeners to the show back in Episode 101, you and I had an agreed to disagree segment on privacy versus convenience. So listen to that. And that was an interesting conversation. Anyway, back to Facebook. So the items that they called out were combating for an election interference, certainly an important one, protecting people’s privacy and data, enabling safe and easy data portability between platforms and then supporting thoughtful changes.

Joey Coleman (24:51):
Aww – that’s an artful term!

Dan Gingiss (24:51):
And this is definitely the PR part that is the Communications Decency Act. And that is the section that specifically eliminates Facebook and other tech companies from being responsible for the content on their site. So Joey…

Joey Coleman (25:05):
It’s their get out of jail free card. Let’s be honest. That section was written by tech companies as a blanket, get out of jail free card. We’re not responsible. Now, should they be a hundred percent responsible for stuff on their side? I don’t think so, but should they be a hundred percent not liable? No, that doesn’t work either. We got to find some middle ground on this.

Dan Gingiss (25:24):
And frankly we have the technology to do it, right. They have technology that can, I can look at posts and identify things. And they actually listed a couple of topics with the illegalities that they think would be reasonable to add to such a policy. So I think the summary here was look, I was stopped in my tracks because I’m reading a printed newspaper, I see a printed full page ad from Facebook that is talking about additional regulation. Now yes, they may be doing it to make the politicians happy. But I did think that it was well thought out and I would encourage companies that are in regulated industries ’cause man, I spent more than half of my career there and it can be a bear get involved in the creation of these regulations. Talk to your Congressman and your senators and be part of the conversation because oftentimes companies act like regulation is something that happens to them. And I do think if Facebook is smart, they’re not going to wait for regulation to happen to them – they’re going to contribute to it and try to at least make it in such a way that they can work with it.

Joey Coleman (26:33):
Almost everyone has interacted with chatbots, but all too often, it’s been a bad experience. In MythBusters presented by Solvvy, we explore a common myth about CX chatbots and see how the right technology can create a positive experience every time.

Dan Gingiss (26:57):
Today’s myth about chatbots, they can’t help you with urgent issues. Joey, have you ever been stuck with a chat bot when you had a more serious issue that needed human support? The worst thing is being stuck with a robot on the phone or website with no good way to get to that real person, especially when you need an answer – Now! I’ve even tried to hunt down a customer service number, which of course is often a challenge for some companies. And one time the chat bot wouldn’t even stop after the human joined the conversation.

Joey Coleman (27:29):
I love it. Now you’re having a conversation with the chat bot and the human and you’re loving both of them!. Well, the reality is modern chat bots can seamlessly get you to a support agent when you need one intelligent chat. Bots can understand when your issue is urgent or it requires agent support and will quickly route you to the right place in those specific cases. Similarly, requesting to speak to an agent hands you directly to a real person – ensuring you don’t waste time, looking around for a phone number or sending an email to support or pounding on the “O” repeatedly in the hope that if you push it harder, it will get you to an agent faster.

Dan Gingiss (28:06):
Well, I’m not sure we should have shared this secret to super fast customer supposed support Joey, but I have to say, if I knew I could get to a human at any time, I’d probably be a little more patient with the old chat bot.

Joey Coleman (28:18):
That’s another Myth Busted – thanks to our friends at Solvvy, the Next Gen Chatbot.

Joey Coleman (28:27):
There are so many great customer experience articles to read, but who has the time! We summarize them and offer clear takeaways you can implement starting tomorrow. Enjoy this segment of CX Press, where we read the articles so you don’t need to!

Dan Gingiss (28:45):
This week’s CX press is by Branwell Moffatt on the Future of Customer Engagement and Experience website, which is managed by SAP CX – which in full disclosure is a client of mine, but that’s not why I’m sharing the article. And in fact, they don’t even know that I’m doing it. The article is entitled “Friction in e-commerce – sometimes it’s a good thing.”

Joey Coleman (29:08):
Now wait a second, Dan, we’ve talked about this on the show many times. Isn’t friction, usually a bad thing when it comes to customer experience?

Dan Gingiss (29:16):
Yes, of course it is. Which is why I thought the article was so interesting as Moffatt writes and I’m quoting convention tells us to remove as much friction as we possibly can, but there, but is there such a thing as having too little friction, can we go too far and actually damage our customer experience by making it too easy for them unquote. Now he points to Ikea the iconic furniture retailer that sells high quality pieces that the buyer has to assemble themselves. I’m quoting again. He says, “you’d expect the main advantage that this gives Ikea is a lower cost of sale, which can then be passed on to customers. However, the very fact that customers have to invest more time and effort into the collecting and building of the furniture causes them to place a higher value on it.” Unquote, now this psychological phenomenon actually has a name and it was coined in 2011 by researchers from Harvard, Gail, and Duke. It’s known as the “Ikea Effect.”

Joey Coleman (30:14):
Oh my gosh, I love it. Here’s the crazy thing, Dan, we just moved a few months ago and for the, let me count that, uh, one, two, three, four, five, six time I moved a dozen Billy bookcases from IKEA. Now I guarantee you when IKEA made this less than a hundred dollar bookcase, they did not think I was going to take it from Virginia to DC, to Colorado, to three different locations in Colorado, and back to Iowa. But I did. And I totally get that idea of being connected to the furniture in a different way, because you built it. And something like the Billy bookcase super easy to build, they have other bookcases, not so easy to build. Uh, and, and that’s kind of the adventure. Whenever you buy something new from IKEA, are you getting the easy to build one of the more difficult to build one, but I, uh, I resonate with this idea that even though there’s some frictions, uh, of building it, it does create more connection because I built this darn thing, I’m going to take care of it and get the optimal use out of it. Before you move on to another, giving it up so fast, that’s giving it up. I said, yeah, I spent a good amount of time on this. The Kallax, by the way, is the one that is just a killer. If you see the Kallax five by five cube, go get a PhD in furniture building, it’ll be easier.

Dan Gingiss (31:42):
Well, we actually talked about this way back in Season 2, Episode 42, when I bought some furniture from Target. And I expressed that and I still express it. I do not enjoy putting together furniture, but that Target’s directions made it really fine and easy. But I started thinking about some other examples. Well, first of all, actually, there were other examples in the article. And then I, I thought of some additional ones. He mentioned growing your own vegetables in the garden right there. They taste better because you grow them.

Joey Coleman (32:11):
Ironically enough Dan, you may recall, we talked about earlier this season about the, uh, special lettuce grower I got from my wife. We actually ate the lettuce from it the other night, the first time we harvested the lettuce that we grew in the basement. And I got to tell you, we asked around the table, the family and everybody was like, this tasted really good. And I, we talked about the fact that does it taste better because we know that we grew it as opposed to buying it at the store.

Dan Gingiss (32:37):
Yeah, for sure. For sure. And the article also mentioned the great brand build the bear, which is the store that lets you assemble your own Teddy bear, which in theory should be less expensive because they don’t have to pay for the labor, but it’s actually more expensive because you’re paying for the experience. So he says Moffatt writes, “by adding friction to the purchase process, these companies have managed to increase the perceived value of their products while also reducing their costs.”

Joey Coleman (33:04):
You know, it’s interesting, Dan, I understand the way that friction is being used here, but I, I’m not exactly sure that it’s the best word because I get what they’re, you know, friction is so regularly associated with an impediment or a slowing and yes, this is arguably a slowing, but when you’re enhancing the experience by slowing, like they do at build a bear, you’re actually increasing the experience. So I guess it’s the point that is being made. If you’re not going to make it uber-convenient, make sure that everything that takes time in your customer journey is a remarkable experience

Dan Gingiss (33:42):
Is worth the time, right? Because the issue with Build-A-Bear is it’s not about, I mean, it is a great experience, but it’s that they can charge more for that, right? Is that a, is that an already assembled teddy bear, which is a whole lot easier and faster and more convenient costs significantly less than one that you have to build yourself. Now I was starting to think of some other, uh, products. I, I was thinking over the holidays, I almost bought my son this, but you know, you see in the catalogs, those like those puzzles that you lock a a hundred dollar bill or a $50 bill in, and they can’t get to the money until they solve the puzzle. Right. It was dry. But man, when you get that money, you’re going to really feel.

Joey Coleman (34:21):
a different level of appreciation cause he had to work for it. Yeah. I get that. You know, I’m also thinking of things like cooking classes, right? Where you maybe go to a cooking class. I did one years ago where we learned how to make our own sushi. And that was awesome. And I feel like it was some of the best sushi I ever had. It probably wasn’t the best sushi I’ve ever had, but because I felt invested in the creation of it, I think it changed my, the taste profile or at least my experience of the taste profile.

Dan Gingiss (34:49):
Absolutely. So here’s the takeaway for our listeners. Even if you have a product or service that can’t be assembled by your customer, still try to look for ways to make it their own, right? It could be as simple as using their name on your website when they log in and then asking them if they want to change it to a nickname or a spouse’s name or something else right? Now you’ve made the product their own. So every time they log in, it feels like it’s something that they were invested in. So understanding that you may not be selling, you may not be a furniture seller that sells, made to build furniture. There are ways in lots of different companies to allow your customers to invest in the experience. And what we found from this article is that that ultimately pays off in a willingness to spend more.

Joey Coleman (35:46):
Thanks for joining us for another episode of Experience This! You are the best listener ever!

Dan Gingiss (35:52):
And since you listened to the whole show,

Joey Coleman (35:54):
Yay, you!

Dan Gingiss (35:55):
we’re curious, was there a specific part of this episode that you enjoyed the most? If so, it would mean the world to us if you could share it with a coworker, a friend, or someone that just loves listening to podcasts.

Joey Coleman (36:06):
And while you’re in the sharing mood, if you felt inclined to jump over to iTunes or wherever you find your podcasts and write us a review, we would so appreciate it. And when you do, don’t forget to let us know as we might have a little surprise for you.

Dan Gingiss (36:21):
Thanks again for your time. And we’ll see you next week for more,

Joey Coleman (36:24):
Experience.

Dan Gingiss (36:24):
This!

Episode 123 – Precision Produces Enhanced Experiences

Join us as we discuss an advertisement with extra special details, cutting edge research on the power of online reviews, and a creative way to get customers to follow your directions.

Skiing, Reviewing, and Cooking – Oh My!

Referenced in the Show

Check out the ad Joey saw from Stellar Equipment that showed the model’s name and size!

Host Contact Information

Email Dan: Dan@dangingiss.com

Tweet Dan Gingiss: @DGingiss

Email Joey: JoeyC@JoeyColeman.com

DanGingiss.com

JoeyColeman.com

Subscribe to Experience This on Apple Podcasts

Learn more about our Season 7 Partner – Solvvy – The NextGen Chatbot

Episode Transcript

Download an unedited transcript of Episode 123 here or read it below:

Joey Coleman (00:05):
Welcome to Experience This!

Dan Gingiss (00:07):
The podcast that celebrates remarkable customer experiences and inspires you to stand out from the competition by wowing your customers.

Joey Coleman (00:17):
Each episode, we bring you a healthy dose of inspiring stories, funny interactions, and practical takeaways. Marketing and customer experience thought leader, Dan Gingiss…

Dan Gingiss (00:30):
shares the mic with customer retention and employee experience expert, Joey Coleman, helping you to get people talking about your business.

Joey Coleman (00:40):
So get ready because it’s time to Experience This!

Dan Gingiss (00:49):
Get ready for another episode of the Experience This Show!

Dan Gingiss (00:54):
Join us as we discuss: an advertisement with extra special details, cutting edge research on the power of online reviews, and a creative way to get customers to follow your directions.

Joey Coleman (01:07):
Skiing, Reviewing, and Cooking… Oh my!

Joey Coleman (01:14):
Just because you have required elements of your business doesn’t mean they need to be boring. It’s time to get creative, have some fun, and make people sit up and take notice! Get your customers talking when you make the Required Remarkable!

Joey Coleman (01:34):
I have a question for you, Dan… When is the last time that you saw an advertisement and thought, “now, I haven’t seen that before!”

Dan Gingiss (01:41):
It’s probably like every time my 13 year old daughter finds something like the perfect pineapple corer or the avocado saver, or…

Joey Coleman (01:53):
Those slicers are lovely savers – a separate conversation.

Dan Gingiss (01:56):
Those items that only work for one thing…

Joey Coleman (01:59):
Fair enough, yeah, fair enough. I appreciate that. Well, I had an experience the other day where I got an email with an ad for something that in some ways I’d never seen before, but I had wished that I had seen many, many times, but first of all, before I explain the ad, let me give you a little backstory. So about two years ago, I stumbled across an ad on Facebook for a company called Stellar Equipment. Stellar creates high performance outdoor equipment using the best materials and factories in the world. Their specialty is ski wear jackets, pants, shells, layers. They offer entire technical outerwear systems (that’s their words – or ski outfits like you and I might say) that allow for optimal performance on the mountain while staying warm and looking good. Now they sell online and in two showrooms, one in Sweden and one in Switzerland now to be clear, Dan, I am not an amazing skier by any stretch of the imagination, but I do enjoy it. And after a decade or so of using my old ski pants and jacket, I thought it was time to invest in some upgraded ski wear. So in early 2020, about a year ago, I decided to purchase their signature system. And as a result, I started receiving their e-newsletter, which brings me to the advertisement that I referenced earlier. So if you go to our show notes page had ExperiencedThisShow.com you can see the images I’m about to describe, and we’ll include a link to the stellar website as well. So stellar sent this ad, announcing their new padded pants and shirts. This is basically a mid-layer, which is a fancy way of saying it goes over your long underwear and under your ski jacket, right? A mid-layer. And they describe the outfit as follows quote, “Using dermisaxNX from Japanese innovators Toray, this three layer shell is lightweight and stretchable while completely waterproof, completely windproof, and extremely breathable. In fact, you’ll have a hard time finding any shell material that can compete with its comfort and performance.

Dan Gingiss (04:00):
Joey windproof and breathable sounds sexy, right?

Joey Coleman (04:04):
So fun.

Dan Gingiss (04:05):
Well, it sounds pretty cool, but uh, why exactly did this ad stand out so much?

Joey Coleman (04:11):
Well, the ad stood out, not because of the copy, which was great, but because of the picture accompanying the copy now in the photograph, it showed a male model standing in a ski lodge, wearing the padded shirt and pants that were being advertised. But here’s where it got interesting super-imposed on the image was the following message. Cody is 184 centimeters and 78 kilograms or six foot one and 172 pounds wearing size L. In all my years, Dan of looking at ads where models were wearing clothing. I had never seen an ad calling the model by name and sharing their height and weight. So when I was looking at it, I could say, huh, he’s six one, I’m six, two. He weighs 172 pounds. I weigh a little more than 172 pounds. I would probably want size large. And I didn’t have to look at a sizing chart. I didn’t have to order both sizes and have them both shipped here and try and both on and decide which one fit and, you know, do the customer convenient, but environmentally unconvenient, send one back. I knew from the ad exactly what I was supposed to order if I wanted to order these clothes. So

Dan Gingiss (05:29):
I think that’s really neat. I also like the personalization of knowing his name, that it’s a real person. I think that was kind of clever. Now I want to ask you and, uh, and, and folks joy doesn’t know I’m going to ask him this question, but was your response so positive because he was so close to your size? Or, I mean, what if he was five foot, six and 320 pounds? Would you have been like, Ooh, so cool that they shared his height and weight or was it just that it happened to be close you?

Joey Coleman (05:58):
That’s a great question that I hate. I’m not exactly sure. I think it was relevant and not relevant. Here’s what I mean by that on one hand, I’m in that unique spot, especially when you think about European sizing where like in America, often I end up sizing towards the large size, maybe the extra large size that usually is height dependent in Europe though. It’s kind of a weird thing because as a general rule, Europeans maybe skew different sizes and shapes then most folks from the United States. So given that it’s a European country, I appreciated not only that they broke down and did me the courtesy of giving it to us in English instead of just in metric. But the fact that I could look at it and go six one six, two, Oh, that’s pretty close, large. I can see that, you know, there’s a little bit of extra length in the leg. That’ll probably be fine with another inch. So I think it was really useful that he was my size. What was interesting though, is if you go to the website, they also have a picture of a female model wearing their women’s version. And that version identifies the model as Emma being 169 centimeters and 56 kilograms or five foot seven, 123 pounds wearing size S – small. So again, they’re giving you some guidance visually in terms of the body shape and answering questions about the product fit that I think is going to help a prospective buyer realize not only how the outfit might look on them, which I think is lots of times what we think of when we look at a model, but also what’s it going to drape like, what’s it going to fit like?

Dan Gingiss (07:34):
Yeah, I think it’s really interesting and if I, if I could make a suggestion of even sort of where you would take it next would be to have the customer, have the ability to put in their own height and weight and to adjust the so-called model. Hey, maybe we’ll get little, Lil Miquela to be our model.

Joey Coleman (07:51):
I love that. Shout out to a previous episode, Dan love it.

Dan Gingiss (07:55):
Uh, but we could, you know, you basically, you could see a real live model that was your shape, shape and size because I think it’s great. I think it even, you know, I’m thinking to myself, okay, I’m not anywhere near six one. And so I think I probably could tell from looking at this guy that I would be a medium, but am I sure. And so I think it would be fascinating to be able to just put in your, you know, your own height and weight and get the picture or the model. But I think this is a really interesting start and I, I think it’s, I’m glad you called it out. I think it’s cool.

Joey Coleman (08:28):
Yeah. I’m excited. Cause I felt like it was a step in the right direction. I can not think of an ad that I have ever seen that called the model by name or gave their height and weight. Now sometimes you can look at it and you can make a guess, but let’s be candid – most of the models and clothing ads have bodies that the average person looking at the ad wishes that they had, you know, it’s like, hi, we’re selling this scarf with our six pack abs. And you’re like, what did the abs have to do with the scarf? Nothing. But what it does, what this ad from Stellar did is it, let me see, okay. I could see myself in these clothes and I could have a better idea of what I was going to, uh, look like wearing the clothes. You know, it’s interesting, I’m reminded of an ad. I created years ago when I was running my ad agency for a company called SMO, they were a heating oil and propane company in Southern Maryland and they did this huge rebrand and as part of the rebrand, we redesigned truck wraps for all of their vehicles. They had hundreds of vehicles and we did custom designs for the left side of the vehicle and the right side of the vehicle. So they were all different. And then we put a series of phone numbers on the different sides of the trucks, so that we could start to get an idea of which ad led to the most inbound calls, you know, kind of like split testing in a digital world but in the physical world with these trucks driving around the community, we had funny ads. We had poignant ads, but here’s the thing. The ad that drew the most phone calls was a picture of a dog in a bathtub with a line that said, “Don’t worry, we’ll keep the water warm” because they’re home heating oil and propane company, but here’s the thing, Dan, it, the phone rang off the hook like five to one for that ad. But everybody who called in wanted to know what the dog’s name was. Now, interestingly enough, the dog’s name was stock photo.com dog. You know, I mean, it was just, there was no name and we didn’t do a photo shoot. We bought a picture of a dog in a tub, but it opened my eyes in that moment to the fact that when we can personalize the advertisements, people connect at a much more emotional way, connect in a much more emotional way in a much deeper fashion.

Dan Gingiss (10:40):
Yeah. It’s like, we’ve talked about a number of products on this show where when you receive the package in the mail, it says it was packed by this person. And you know, you may not know that person, but at least you see it’s another human being or they sign their name or something like that. I’ve definitely liked the personalization. I think it’s a great ad. I love it.

Joey Coleman (11:00):
So what can we learn from this, forgive the pun, stellar ad from the team at Stellar. Like what I did there Dan? So if you want to introduce a new product to your customers, don’t just focus on the sales language and imagery. Personalize the conversation by telling us the name of the model. Let us see how the product is going to work for us by telling us about the environment where the images were taken, the models, using the product, how they’re interacting with the product. The more your communications can humanize your products and services, the more the humans you’re advertising to will want your products and services.

Joey Coleman (11:40):
There are so many great customer experience articles to read, but who has the time?! We summarize them and offer clear takeaways you can implement starting tomorrow. Enjoy this segment of CX Press, where we read the articles so you don’t need to!

Joey Coleman (11:59):
You’ve had the opportunity to speak for the fine folks at Podium – didn’t you, at some point in the past?

Dan Gingiss (12:05):
I did and in fact, I’m still doing so – they are a client of mine now and, uh, really liked those guys. I like working with them…

Joey Coleman (12:12):
They are fantastic folks. I had the pleasure of speaking to the Podium team as well last year. Uh, but to be clear, the story that we’re about to talk about is not a sponsored segment. In fact, Podium has no idea. We’re recording this conversation right now. Dan, you had no idea before we started recording tonight that we were going to be recording about this, but I had the chance to read their brand new 2021 State of Reviews Report. And to be honest, it was so full of actionable insights and just really eye opening observations that I wanted to share it with our listeners. Now, for context, if you haven’t heard of podium before podium is a fast growing software company that specializes in customer interactions. Now they call their solution, the “ultimate messaging platform,” because it allows for multi-channel communications to funnel into a single location. So you can text with your customers, connect with your website traffic, request and comment on reviews, collect payments. You can do so much more all in one software solution. Now I came to know of podium for their expertise in helping local businesses do more, to get reviews and then use those reviews to grow their business, which is why I was so curious about their findings in the 2021 State of Reviews Report.

Dan Gingiss (13:28):
Yeah, it’s obviously a fascinating and sometimes terrifying part of running a business, right? Is this whole thing around reviews. When do you ask for them, how do you ask for them? What do you do about them? Do you respond some sites? Don’t let you respond at all. What if they’re anonymous? What if people are complaining about you? These are things that keep small business owners up at night so it’s a very important topic.

Joey Coleman (13:55):
Absolutely. And you know, it’s interesting because I think it’s one of those topics, Dan, that everyone knows it’s important, but it’s kind of hard to know where to dive in, but there are so many moving parts to this, and that’s why I loved this report. So the 2021 State of Reviews rReport starts out with the following observation, which I found pretty profound, quote “Reviews have never been so important or influential. In the wake of COVID-19 the information they provide and customer experience they paint are closely and regularly analyzed by consumers. In our digital marketplace reviews are the first link to connecting with your business and the first deciding factor in moving to a competitor. To stay competitive businesses must proactively remove any obstacles that prevent customers from leaving reviews.” Now, the report goes on to share the findings of a survey that they did in October of 2020, across a US audience that included 1,543 consumers (aged 18 to 99, in all regions of the country) 455 small business owners or managers, and 378 enterprise business leaders in businesses with a local presence. Now let’s talk about a few of the interesting statistics that we found in the review. Dan, do you want to share one that you liked?

Dan Gingiss (15:15):
Sure. Well, the top characteristics that consumers say are most important when choosing a local business: Location is number one at 61%, Price or Promotions at 55%. And then we get into some interesting pieces: Personal recommendations at 50%, and Reviews at 41%.

Joey Coleman (15:36):
You know, I thought that one was really interesting, Dan, because when we think of a local business location, location, location, right, that’s pretty obvious price. Hello, die. Everybody knows about that personal recommendations. If you can get word of mouth, of course, but coming in, in the strong fourth place with double digit 41% reviews, I was somewhat surprised to see it that high in the list. But I wasn’t surprised when I learned the next statistic, which was 65% of consumers have read a review of some product or service in the last week. And 85% have read a review in the last month. People are reading reviews like crazy left and right, and that’s contributing to their buying decisions.

Dan Gingiss (16:22):
It makes sense. And 58% of consumers are willing to travel further and pay more to patronize a business with higher reviews. And this actually happened the other night was my daughter’s 13th birthday. She asked for sushi and she found, online, a new sushi place that we hadn’t been to. That was frankly, a little bit farther away than normal, but it got terrific reviews. And that’s why we tried it. And guess what? We loved it and we’re going to go back.

Joey Coleman (16:47):
I love it. I love it. Now here’s the question, Dan, have you written a review?

Dan Gingiss (16:52):
Great question. I have not. I probably should.

Joey Coleman (16:55):
Okay. If you haven’t because it illustrates the point. Here’s the crazy thing. 81% of consumers leave a review four times a year or less. So the majority of people, if they are going to do a review are going to do no more than four in a year, which means super reviewers are really rare. 20% of people say they have never left a review, in any capacity, for any product or service. Now I know from our conversations, you’ve left plenty of reviews over the years. But what I think was interesting about this statistic is what can we do to get people who like you had a great experience to actually write about the fact that you went further than you normally would, that you went for a special occasion, right? That you were doing this effort to go above and beyond because you wanted to try a new place and how it really paid off because of the reviews.

Dan Gingiss (17:47):
Well, and just to stay on that story, I’ll tell you exactly how they should have done it. They, I called in the order. So they had my name and phone number. And when I went to pick it up, I told them it was my first time being there. And she asked me where I lived and she said, Oh, you drove a little ways to get here. I said, yeah, they, all they had to do was call me half an hour later and say, Hey, how was your dinner? And ask me to write a review. And I, boom, I would have done it immediately.

Joey Coleman (18:10):
Or my gut instinct is you gave them your cell phone number. They could have even texted. You could have texted them interestingly enough – and this is a plug for our friends at Podium. I guess they have a texting solution that allows you to solve for that problem. But this kind of illustrates the point you were making earlier that we’ve got to know when to ask for the reviews and we have to actually do the ask. It’s not enough just to have a great product. We need to remind people that we made a promise of a great product we delivered on that product. And part of the payment that they can give back to us is to write a review.

Dan Gingiss (18:44):
Yeah. And one of the things I learned in corporate America was find that place where, you know, you make your customers happy and that’s when you ask them. So when I worked at discover, what we realized was the moment they were happiest with us was when customers redeemed their rewards, because it was like getting free money and who doesn’t like free money. So we learned that that was the moment to ask for a review because they thought they thought we were awesome. Right? And so we didn’t put on the website, leave us a review in 70 different places. We put it in the places where we knew that they were in, that customers were in a good mood and really happy with us. Right. And it worked, it, it it’s, you know, if you hit them at the right time, especially local businesses. And I think so many people now we feel for local businesses, we want to support them. And if a review helps you do have to make the because it’s not that I meant to not leave a review of this place. I just never thought about it.

Joey Coleman (19:39):
Right. And you got caught up with other things you had ordered dinner. I presume you were driving all the way back home to then sit down and have sushi dinner with the family. So what’s interesting is the report actually speaks to this. They noted that after having a good experience with a local business, consumers are 12% more likely to leave a review if they saw a sign asking them to in the business establishment, and 36% more likely if they receive an email invite to leave a review. Now, I’m not sure if there was anything in the research that talked about getting a text message to leave a review, but I bet that’s even higher, especially in like a takeout scenario like this, where if I could just click, Hey, I’ll give you five stars. Boom, they’ve got the review, which led to another interesting stat that was in the reports, which is 86% of consumers require at least a three-star average rating in order to even consider engaging with your business with 3.4 being the average star rating required. So if your business doesn’t have 3.4 stars out of five, they’re not even going to consider you. You’ve got to get that up in the four and five range.

Dan Gingiss (20:46):
Yeah. Would say personally, mine, my limit is usually a four.

Joey Coleman (20:51):
You have a higher threshold for awesomeness.

Dan Gingiss (20:53):
Exactly – or for pain – I don’t know. I know there are another related statistic here, which you and I have talked about before is that 68% of consumers agree or somewhat agree that they don’t trust a high review rating unless there’s also a high quality of reviews. And we’ve talked about this. I think I mentioned in a previous episode, how happy I was to get my first three star review on Amazon for my book, because everything up until then had been five stars. And it isn’t believable. I mean, even though they were all real people don’t believe that any product or services is exactly five stars. And so that one, three star review brought me down to like, uh, you know, whatever it is at 4.8, 4.9 and now it’s realistic.

Joey Coleman (21:35):
Absolutely. You know, it’s so funny. Dan years ago, a friend of mine had written a book and he had asked me to do a review and I knew how reviews worked. And I went on Amazon to see, and he had like twenty 5 star reviews. So I decided to write a four star review and I wrote the review and I made the lack of the fifth star. I called out why I wasn’t giving it a fifth star. And it was some benign reason like, Oh, I wish there would have been three more chapters. You know, something that anybody who is actually reading a review, it’d be like, Oh, just get over yourself. Give them the five stars. But when my friend, when we talked about it, he’s like, Oh, why didn’t you give me the four star? I was like, I give you the four star to help you. I’m not hurting you with the forced arm actually helping you. So I do think that it’s one of those things where we don’t want to always strive for just the five star reviews. Interestingly enough, one of the things that they also found in the study is that how you comment on reviews like negative reviews is really important. So there’s an encouragement there for any business that has reviews comment on the reviews. If at all possible. Now I get in some formats, you can’t do that. And in some platforms where reviews are left, but if you get the chance to actually comment, thank them for the review, acknowledged the review. If something has gone wrong, explain why it went wrong. Don’t get defensive, but either just genuinely apologize or point out some additional facts that might’ve been left out of the review, your customers and your prospects who have never done business with you are less crazy than the people who write one-star reviews and they will read through and become advocates for you.

Dan Gingiss (23:15):
Absolutely. And this is why we to ask for reviews of the ExperienceThisShow at the end of every episode. And here’s what we know from our friends at podium, even though we’ve been asking only a small percentage of listeners actually write reviews. So we want to make that easier for you.

Joey Coleman (23:32):
So we came across this interesting new service called love the podcast. Okay? So you have to participate. All you have to do is visit LoveThePodcast.com/ExperienceThis. And what it will do is it will identify what platform you’re on, either Apple or Android, and it will give you an easy way to leave a review for our show in the platform that best suits your needs. I know lots of times we talk about leaving a review on iTunes. This will, with some technology, figure out the best places for you to leave reviews. And if you do leave a review, please make sure to let us know so we can appreciate your review and all sorts of fun and creative ways.

Joey Coleman (24:15):
Almost everyone has interacted with chatbots, but all too often, it’s been a bad experience. In MythBusters – presented by Solvvy – we explore a common myth about CX chatbots and see how the right technology can create a positive experience every time.

Joey Coleman (24:40):
Today’s myth about chatbots? Chatbots are glorified search engines. Allow me to explain. Straightforward questions should have straightforward answers correct? So why is it that so many chatbots respond to straightforward, basic customer questions by providing a list of helpful links or perhaps a massive article that takes 10 minutes to scroll through, just to find the one piece of information that you actually need. I’m not sure about you, Dan, but when this happens, I wind up asking to talk to an agent or I submit a support ticket. So I don’t have to waste my time with the chat bot.

Dan Gingiss (25:16):
Yeah, I hear you Joey, but while there’s a myth that chatbots are glorified search engines, the reality is that intelligent chatbots provide specific answers and use images, videos, and even interactive tools to provide customers with great support. For example, let’s say a product you purchased, isn’t working the way you hoped you bought some ski pants for example, and they don’t fit! If you visited a company’s online help center, an intelligent chat bot is able to ask short questions to help narrow down your problem and effectively troubleshoot the issue instead of displaying a bunch of random links or just copy of the manual that came with the product, which you probably have anyway, the chat bot shares the specific instructions or videos that you need to resolve the problem with a next gen chat bot. Common questions do have straightforward answers.

Joey Coleman (26:05):
That sounds like such a better customer experience. It’s about time that the technology provided straightforward answers to straightforward questions. We’ll learn more about advances in chat bots and support automation throughout the season.

Dan Gingiss (26:20):
And that’s another myth busted – thanks to our friends at Solvvy, the Next Gen Chatbot.

Joey Coleman (26:27):
We love telling stories and sharing key insights you can implement, or avoid, based on our experiences. Can you believe that This Just Happened!

Joey Coleman (26:41):
As our loyal listeners probably remember, when it comes to the co-hosts of the Experience This Show, Dan is by far the better of the two of us when it comes to things like pinball, Chicago Cubs fandom, Twitter, and cooking.

Dan Gingiss (26:56):
Oh, well, hey, thanks man, pat me on the back! I really appreciate all the fine compliments. Uh, you’re definitely better when it comes to hair. I would say definitely a better singer. I would say for sure.

Joey Coleman (27:11):
No, no, not!

Dan Gingiss (27:11):
A better LEGO builder absolutely. Uh, but hey, I’m glad you called out cooking because I do love cooking and I am proud to say that I cook for my kids multiple times a week, usually at least four times a week and I have so much fun doing it. Now I’ve got them involved in it too.

Joey Coleman (27:28):
And you cook for teenagers and they eat what you cook, which is pretty impressive Dan! It shows that you

Dan Gingiss (27:33):
They do eat a lot of what I cook!

Joey Coleman (27:34):
They eat a lot of what you cook. I love it! So here’s the thing, I’ve got to confess, as we start out a new year, I’ve been considering some enhancements in my personal life. And one of those areas is to potentially improve my culinary skills. So I actually helped to make dinner tonight before we recorded this episode.

Dan Gingiss (27:54):
Really? Now I know your wife Berit is quite a good cook, so what was on the menu tonight?

Joey Coleman (27:59):
Yes. Berit is definitely the better cook in the family. She is normally the one providing all of the meals, which I so greatly appreciate. But tonight I thought I would start with pasta in boiling water.

Dan Gingiss (28:10):
Wow Joey! You’re like next stop, Top Chef right?

Joey Coleman (28:17):
And I can feel it coming well, no, I let’s be candid folks. We got to start somewhere. Right. But I have a question for you, Dan. How do you know when the spaghetti is ready?

Dan Gingiss (28:28):
The spaghetti is ready? Uh, well, uh, you know, usually I asked my friend a L E X a to set a timer for me, but if I forget, I kind of have to do the old, like tasted, burned my hand on the hot pasta if it’s too crunchy, put it back in. Okay.

Joey Coleman (28:44):
All right. So either the timer or the taste method, I also know this, throw it against the wall method. I’ve heard about, I’ve heard about the cut it in half method, which some people swear by, some people think that ruins the entire meal, but I tonight actually had some additional help in the kitchen that went beyond any of these techniques. I had some help from the fine folks at Barilla.

Dan Gingiss (29:09):
Barilla, like the Italian pasta company?

Joey Coleman (29:12):
Yes. And they helped me with music.

Dan Gingiss (29:17):
Music? I’m not sure I understand.

Joey Coleman (29:20):
Well, here’s the thing… A few weeks ago, a series of custom playlist appeared on Spotify. So let me play you a little sample:

Barilla Narrator (29:27):
[Italian well wishes…] [Inaudible].

Dan Gingiss (29:39):
Wow. Well, I didn’t really understand that, but I think the speaker was speaking Italian. What was being said there?

Joey Coleman (29:48):
Yeah – I have no idea. I agree. It was Italian and I don’t know what the speaker was saying, but here’s what I do know is that that clip came from the Mixtape Spaghetti playlist.

Dan Gingiss (29:59):
Of course it did!

Joey Coleman (29:59):
Play last mix tape spaghetti, right? This playlist is nine minutes and three seconds long. And if you start playing the playlist, when you add the spaghetti to the boiling water, when the last song ends on the playlist, you know, it’s time to remove the spaghetti and it will be cooked perfectly.

Dan Gingiss (30:18):
Nine minutes and three seconds.

Joey Coleman (30:20):
And three second!

Dan Gingiss (30:21):
I’ve never waited that three seconds.

Joey Coleman (30:27):
And there you go.

Dan Gingiss (30:28):
I love that. That is a kind of a fun way to it’s better than just a timer, tick, tick ticking, or, or the silence that you hear when you ask for a timer on your phone or your A-L-E-X-A. That was fun!

Joey Coleman (30:40):
Absolutely. And let’s be candid if you’re into pastas other than spaghetti, don’t worry. Barilla’s got you covered. In addition to Mixtape Spaghetti, you can listen to the Boom Bap Fusili, the Pleasant Melancholy Penne, the Moody Day Linguine, Top Hits Spaghetti, Best Song Penne, Timeless Emotion Fusili, and Simply Classics Linguini. All of those have their own playlist in short, there’s a musical playlist for pretty much every variety of pasta you might hope to cook.

Dan Gingiss (31:13):
I love that. And I, I would assume that sometimes you have to cook different pastas for different lengths. So I assume that

Joey Coleman (31:19):
Play this role different way.

Dan Gingiss (31:22):
Cool. It kind of reminds me, uh, you know, somewhat recently we were talking about, uh, the LEGO white noise music that you played for me.

Joey Coleman (31:30):
Uh, yes Dan, that would be Episode 121.

Dan Gingiss (31:34):
Aay! Look at you!

Joey Coleman (31:39):
Yeah, two episodes ago – this is not a huge stretch friends, but yeah, this whole idea of products that are going to be in people’s homes, providing a soundtrack for the product. So what can we learn from the creative folks at Barilla? Well, part of the customer experience is what happens when a customer is using your product or service and you’re not in the room with them to make sure it goes well. For years, companies have printed recommended cook times on the box of pasta that sometimes are read and followed, but most times aren’t by creating a Spotify playlist, Barilla is bringing some fun and entertainment to the kitchen. They know you might be listening to music while you cook. So why not let the music be part of the cooking experience. Now Dan and I realize you may not be in the business of making pasta and the playlist may not enhance your customer’s experience, but it does beg the question: what can you do to help your customer succeed when using your product or service? And how can you be creative in a way that lets them comply your instructions, even when you’re not in the room and thus get the full benefit of choosing to do business with you. Bon Appetito!

Joey Coleman (32:48):
Thanks for joining us for another episode of Experience This! You are the best listener ever!

Dan Gingiss (32:58):
And since you listened to the whole show…

Joey Coleman (33:01):
Yay you!

Dan Gingiss (33:02):
We’re curious… Was there a specific part of this episode that you enjoyed the most? If so, it would mean the world to us if you could share it with a coworker, a friend, or someone that just loves listening to podcasts.

Joey Coleman (33:12):
And while you’re in the sharing mood, if you felt inclined to jump over to iTunes – or wherever you find your podcasts – and write us a review, we would so appreciate it. And when you do, don’t forget to let us know as we might have a little surprise for you.

Dan Gingiss (33:28):
Thanks again for your time and we’ll see you next week for more.

Joey Coleman (33:31):
Experience

Dan Gingiss (33:33):
This!

Episode 121 – The Sound and The Story

Join us as we discuss products that provide their own soundtrack, rockstars that aren’t real, and a story that made me want to try a brand new product.

Making, Faking, and Salting – Oh My!

Host Contact Information

Email Dan: Dan@dangingiss.com

Tweet Dan Gingiss: @DGingiss

Email Joey: JoeyC@JoeyColeman.com

DanGingiss.com

JoeyColeman.com

Subscribe to Experience This on Apple Podcasts

Learn more about our Season 7 Partner – Solvvy – The NextGen Chatbot

Episode Transcript

Download an unedited transcript of Episode 121 here or read it below:

Joey Coleman (00:05):
Welcome to Experience This!

Dan Gingiss (00:08):
The podcast that celebrates remarkable customer experiences and inspires you to stand out from the competition by wowing your customers.

Joey Coleman (00:17):
Each episode, we bring you a healthy dose of inspiring stories, funny interactions, and practical takeaways. Marketing and customer experience thought leader, Dan Gingiss…

Dan Gingiss (00:30):
shares the mic with customer retention and employee experience expert Joey Coleman, helping you to get people talking about your business.

Joey Coleman (00:40):
So get ready because it’s time to Experience This!

Joey Coleman (00:49):
Get ready, for another episode of the Experience This Show!

Dan Gingiss (00:53):
Join us as we discuss products that provide their own soundtrack, rockstars that aren’t real, and a story that made me want to try a brand new product.

Joey Coleman (01:06):
Making, faking, and salting – Oh my!

Joey Coleman (01:12):
We love telling stories and sharing key insights you can implement, or avoid, based on our experiences. Can you believe that This Just Happened?

Joey Coleman (01:26):
We’ve spoken about LEGO many times before on the show and as our loyal listeners know, I am a big fan!

Dan Gingiss (01:34):
I sure hope you’re not going to make me go find all those episodes, but yes, we have brought up LEGO and, you know, just to say, Joey, I am also a big fan. Although I would say that when my kids stopped playing with LEGOs, I also did. And so, but I, I know the feeling of getting a new set and tearing, open the package and getting ready to build something new. And it’s, it’s definitely a ton of fun.

Joey Coleman (01:58):
It is, and I will say I played with LEGO as a kid growing up. I then didn’t do as much LEGO before I had kids. Now my boys at ages five and seven are right in the LEGO sweet spot, uh, where they’re old enough to not be playing with DUPLO and excited about building sets and can follow the directions. My five-year-old is regularly doing the super advanced sets and he gets a kick out of that. And I think it’s fun too. And so just a big fan, but that’s part of the reason why I wanted to come back to LEGO and no, I’m not going to make you Dan “Rain Man,” us with all the previous episodes. You’re right. But there was a new aspect of my LEGO experience that came up over the holidays that I wanted to share. So for Christmas, my two boys gave me the Iron Man LEGO art set.

Dan Gingiss (02:45):
Oh yeah. I think I saw that in a catalog or a circular or something. It’s the one where you make a portrait of iron man out of LEGO?

Joey Coleman (02:54):
You are correct. I love that you get circulars!

Dan Gingiss (02:55):
Oh, I get the Sunday paper, man. I read the ads.

Joey Coleman (03:00):
I love it. I love it. As part of their new art series, LEGO is celebrating some of the world’s most iconic artists and bands and characters with sets that allow you to not only make wall art to display, but each set comes with several building options. So not only could I make a portrait of the famous Iron Man, Mark III, which for those of you that are not huge Iron Man fans is the suit that he wore in the first Iron Man movie. But with those same pieces and that same board, if you will, I could also make the Hulkbuster Mark I or the Mark 85, which the Mark 85 is famous for being the suit that he wears in the final battle against Thanos in the last Avengers movie

Dan Gingiss (03:49):
You asically lost me. But I think I am going to say that I know enough to know that Hulk Buster refers to “Incredible” not “Hogan.”

Joey Coleman (03:58):
You are correct.

Dan Gingiss (03:59):
Okay. That’s good.

Joey Coleman (04:00):
That’s when Incredible Hulk got into like the costume and then they had to make the, a bigger costume so that Iron Man could fight Hulk it anyway, long story short, to be honest, I’m not as much of a comic book, aficionados as I might come off as in this conversation. But I was really intrigued by this, just this whole general concept of these LEGO art sets. And if that wasn’t enough, if you purchase three of the art sets, you can combine all of them to create a giant picture or as LEGO says the “Ultimate Iron Man” piece. So as you might imagine, I’m in the process of building the ultimate Ironman piece, which is what I wanted to talk about today.

Dan Gingiss (04:39):
I think this segment might be better with video cause I could see this.

Joey Coleman (04:43):
I think it definitely would be better with video and in the interest of full disclosure, maybe by the time we released this episode about, uh, don’t hold your breath fans. I don’t know that I will be able to, uh, complete this setup before then. But if you go online and you look at Ultimate Iron Man LEGO, you’ll see a picture of it, but long story short, instead of while video would make it great. I actually wanted to talk about the audio,

Dan Gingiss (05:07):
The audio? Our listeners are already experiencing the audio.

Joey Coleman (05:13):
Well, yes they are. But I wanted to talk about the audio experience of the Iron Man LEGO art set. So when you open the box, you find the assembly manual, as you might imagine. And in the front of that manual is a little QR code with the following text underneath it. And I quote, “LISTEN – start your exclusive podcast and immerse yourself in the Iron Man story. BUILD – follow the simple building instructions in this book to create your art piece, RELAX – LEGO art is the perfect way to disconnect de-stress and decompress.” Now, when you open the landing page that the QR links to there is a one hour and 30 minute podcast featuring interviews with comic book aficionados members of the Marvel comics team that worked on iron man and the two Lego designers that oversaw the creation of this specific LEGO art set. It’s entertaining, it’s educational. It’s just the sort of unique experience that adds an unexpected layer to the LEGO set.

Dan Gingiss (06:15):
Now, hold on, hold on. Before we go further, are you about to tell me that there’s going to be a new LEGO set that comes out with a QR code that links to the experience of this show?

Joey Coleman (06:23):
You know, that would be pretty fabulous. We would have to work on that. No, but I love this idea of, and I’m not a huge QR code guy, but ever since they made it so that your phone automatically links and you don’t have to like have a separate app and figure all that out, it makes it a lot easier. But I want to play a little sample of what you hear when you start off the podcast.

Guest Voices (06:46):
It was just an interesting idea. You know, of a guy who has to wear this big bulky armor as he did at first, but you still have to build in that weakness. What is his weakness? Wait a minute. Why is this thing on his chest? Oh, wait, he almost died. You know, he’s this very fragile guy in a certain way, but he’s also like one of the richest guys in the world, a great inventor and so forth. He’s a cool exec with a heart of steel. What else is there? Iron Man was always a, uh, an evolving look. It was interesting to see the story evolve because that first outfit that Iron Man had looked like a hot water tank.

LEGO Narrator (07:22):
Imagine crafting your own wall art. Maybe it’s a passion that fascinates you, or maybe it’s the promise of an immersive creative experience. Like no other, a piece of iconic art you can build for yourself, relax and reconnect with your creative side.

Joey Coleman (07:42):
Now this podcast, as you can tell is fun. It’s educational. It’s just some interesting yet relevant background sound to accompany you, building the LEGO set. And as I think Lego probably figured out, there are a lot of people who are fans enough of Iron Man to get the set, but they’re not crazy fans in the sense. And I, and I say that lovingly not pejoratively. They’re not going to know all the nuance of who drew, which comic and what the evolution of the various costumes were. But because they’re basically showing the different outfits that are Iron Man wore, the different armor suits, they’re walking you through the history and the evolution of the armor. And I got to say this podcast soundtrack thing that they did added an entirely new dimension to my LEGO experience. I’ve been building LEGO sets since I was seven years old and I’ve never considered what I’m listening to while I build the set.

Dan Gingiss (08:43):
So it’s fascinating because we’ve talked before about different senses on the show. We’ve talked about adding smell to a hotel, lobbies talked about the bookstore that I didn’t have any lights. And so this is interesting that we’re adding some audio here. What my question for you is does it make it easier or harder to put together the LEGO set? Like, are you busy listening to the podcast? And so now it’s hard to read the instructions or does it kind of just all flow together?

Joey Coleman (09:14):
Well, what’s interesting about the Lego art sets is the best way to describe it is it’s kind of like assembling a mosaic, right? You’re looking at a grid and they’re very specific little colored disc and you’re putting them in rows. So it’s kind of a rote task, you know, put the blue one here, put the black one here. Now put another blue one. So it doesn’t require kind of the same level of mental engagement that building a set where you’re building a tower or a ship or something like that might. So I actually found it additive. I could totally understand that thought of like, Oh, is it distracting? Which interestingly enough leads me to. The next thing I wanted to share, which is that not only is LEGO created soundtracks for the various Lego art sets and you can listen to these, by the way, on the LEGO website, you don’t need to purchase the set. You can just go listen to the various soundtracks they built, but they also recently announced another sound project and knowing how much you’re a Name That Tune kind of guy, Dan, I would like to play a little tune and see if you can guess what you’re listening to. Okay. So I’ll give you a hint, obviously it’s LEGO related, but see if you can tell me what this is

Random Sound (10:42):

  • sound

Dan Gingiss (10:43):
So it kind of sounds like a bunch of LEGOs falling down, but I’m not sure…

Joey Coleman (10:46):
You are so good at name that tune, Dan. Yes, it is a waterfall of LEGOs. And not only is it a waterfall of Legos, it’s a 30 minute track of LEGOs falling of like just falling and falling and falling and fall sound. Yeah. And what’s interesting is that is one of seven tracks on the white noise playlist from LEGO available on Spotify, which we’ll link to on our show notes page. So the interesting thing about this is LEGO has realized that some people might want sound in the background and they created these long play, looping 30 minute things that are just ambient background noise, but is LEGO related. Now I’ll be honest. It might be, uh, that might be a little too far for some people, but I just thought it was super creative that they did something like that.

Dan Gingiss (11:41):
Yeah, it is pretty neat. I mean, if it’s something that you want to listen to, I don’t know if does it help you go to sleep or…

Joey Coleman (11:46):
soothing background noise when you’re making Legos, guess.

Dan Gingiss (11:53):
It kind of sounds like maybe I should create one with like pinball sounds or something.

Joey Coleman (11:57):
Yeah – exactly! Well, and I think, I think the moral of the story is Lego has recognized that they can add another dimension to their experience by thinking about the auditory experience of what’s going on when people are building their LEGO set. So what can we learn from the incredible team at LEGO? Well, consider the environment where your customer is going to be using your product or your service consider why they use your product. And if the goal is something akin to LEGO users who have a goal of disconnecting and de-stressing and decompressing, you might want to help them achieve their goal by adding an auditory experience of your brand, what is the sound of your product? How can you use sound to entertain your customers? How can you use sound to educate your customers? Take note from the creative team at LEGO and make sound a bigger part of your customers’ experience.

Joey Coleman (12:53):
Sometimes a remarkable experience deserves deeper investigation. We dive into the nitty gritty of customer interactions and dissect how, and why, they happen. Join us while we’re Dissecting The Experience.

Joey Coleman (13:11):
I’m curious, Dan, have you heard this singer before? I’m going to play a little clip:

Guest Voices (13:19):
You my número, número uno, but we overdosed You were there in my orbit like Pluto When we used to be close You said you were home, but I just caught you High at Chateau People said we would fade like a photo Didn’t think it would happen with you though I miss what we used to be Out every night in the streets.

Dan Gingiss (13:41):
Well, actually, Joey, this might surprise you… I have no clue.

Joey Coleman (13:49):
I had a feeling this one might be a little bit of a stretch, but before I explain, let me ask this. Is there anything that you can discern or tell me about this singer based on that little clip you just listened to?

Dan Gingiss (14:04):
Well, I mean, she’s females, it seems like a younger woman and uh, definitely, she was definitely saying some words in Spanish. That’s about all I got.

Joey Coleman (14:15):
All right. Well that is a pretty accurate guess. All things considered Dan you’re right? That she is a young singer. She’s 19 years old. She’s actually a Brazilian American model singer and Instagram influencer. And she’s also not human.

Dan Gingiss (14:32):
I’m sorry. I’ll rewind here. I’m sorry. Not human.

Joey Coleman (14:39):
Not human. Correct.

Dan Gingiss (14:40):
All right. I’m going to need an explanation here, Joey.

Joey Coleman (14:44):
All right. Well, I was definitely a little bit confused and wanted an explanation as well. When I first came across Lil Miquela, Dan, as it turns out, Lil Miquela is a computer generated persona created by the Los Angeles based firm Brud. Now Brud is a “transmedia studio that creates digital character driven story worlds that unfold across today’s social platforms.” Now I know that’s kind of a mouthful. That’s the way it’s described on their VC page. But the founder was previously a talent manager at Spotify and was helping artists build their personas. Now, instead of working with temperamental young recording artists, they build computer generated personas, and then bring them to life like Lil Miquela. She has over 27,000 followers on Twitter, which puts her at about 26,980 more than me. But here’s the real kicker. She has over 3 million followers on Instagram.

Dan Gingiss (15:50):
And do people know that she’s not real?

Joey Coleman (15:53):
That’s the kicker everybody’s in on it. Everybody’s in on the joke. They know that this is a computer generated avatar. It’s not a real human and they’re okay with that and they’re fans. And she interacts with people. Now we’ve spoken about something similar to this in our conversation about deep fakes being used in politics. And as you may recall, in that episode, we talked about deep fakes. It looks so real that they could confuse viewers. Now, Lil Miquela is admittedly, not real, but that takes us, I think, to a fascinating conversation about what’s real or not real. And whether that actually matters or not. Does it matter if the influencer promoting your brand or product is real? Does the analysis change when the audience knows the person isn’t real and they don’t care or better yet, they actually prefer knowing the person isn’t real like the case with Lil Miquela. Now I recently came across this website: ThisPersonDoesNotExist.com no, seriously, just type it in: ThisPersonDoesNotExist.com And when you go to this website, you’ll see a picture of a person, except it’s not a real person. It’s a computer generated image made using software from Nvidia to create an image that looks like a real person, but it isn’t a real person. And I’ll tell you, it’s almost impossible to tell the difference between what is the fake person and what is the real person.

Dan Gingiss (17:20):
ThisPersonDoesNotExist. Woah! She’s pretty…

Joey Coleman (17:27):
Yeah!

Dan Gingiss (17:27):
It’s just not real.

Joey Coleman (17:29):
Now. Now wait. And after a couple of seconds, a little thing will pop up. That explains that they use software to create this person. And if you hit refresh, you’ll see a different face… You’ll see another person.

Dan Gingiss (17:42):
Wow.

Joey Coleman (17:43):
Except except these aren’t real people. Now what’s crazy is the same creators of ThisPersonDoesNotExist.com, they have a website for cats: ThisCatDoesNotExist.com. Horses: ThisHorseDoesNotExist.com. Art! Well, you get the picture. And yet all of the pictures they’re sharing are computer generated. They aren’t real. Now while this is arguably a very interesting and maybe strange thing for us to be talking about on the experience. This show, I think this type of technology has a ton of experiential applications. I mean, within the last year of COVID protocols and lockdowns, imagine if you could still shoot commercials with quote “people,” by building them inside the computer program, imagine a manager that never needed to worry about their singer trashing a hotel room. Imagine a studio that could have an actor, an actress that never ages. Now some of these concepts were explored way back in the 2002 movie Simone. You remember that one Dan with Al Pachino?

Dan Gingiss (18:42):
I think so…

Joey Coleman (18:44):
But what’s interesting is in that movie, Al Pacino creates this computer generated actress who goes on to win all these acting awards. And that was science fiction in 2002, but that’s reality in 2021. I mean, it’s not even 20 years later. And this thing that was a Hollywood concept movie is a software that you can go on YouTube and watch a tutorial of how to make it create fake people.

Dan Gingiss (19:12):
Well now see, I was Lil Miquela. Cause you know, when you watch the video on YouTube, you can kind of tell it’s a computer generated character and hey, if her music sounds good to people. That’s all good, but I’m still stuck on ThisPersonDoesNotExist that I keep hitting refresh and refresh. I’m like, wait a minute. These people don’t exist. They all look like unbelievably real. And that starts to get really, really scary, especially in a world that you and I have been living in, in the United States where real news fake, no news lie is true. We don’t even know the difference anymore. This can make that even more complicated.

Joey Coleman (19:50):
Absolutely. And when you think about your brand and when you think about, you know, spokespeople or influencers that you might want promoting your products or services, and then you think about customers that you might interact with, or customer photos that you might have on a website or use in your marketing materials. Do those have to be real people? I mean, I think at the end of the day, most Americans know when they see an advertisement that those are actors that they’re hired to play.

Dan Gingiss (20:21):
Or are they?!

Joey Coleman (20:23):
But here’s the crazy thing. What if they’re not, what if you can get them to say anything? What if you can make a video or a computer generated persona that looks like someone famous, but isn’t really them. I mean, there was an ad during the Super Bowl that was about all the lookalikes and it had Christopher Walken’s voice and then the final, this, we’re long enough after the Super Bowl, I feel like I don’t need to say spoiler alert, but at the end of the commercial, they pull back and it’s a guy who says, and I’m not Christopher Walken and they show the guy and he’s definitely not Christopher Walken. And yet all this time, you’ve thought Christopher Walken was doing the voiceover. I think this is just crazy. When we think about building brands and building experiences and building interactions with our customers and with our employees, what defines real?

Dan Gingiss (21:14):
Well. I think that we know in customer experience that authenticity being genuine are things that customers value. So in the situation of Lil Miquela where people know they’re listening to something, computer generated fantastic, right? I mean, that’s part of the allure. And so I love that. I think we gotta be very careful though, when we’re trying to deep, fake our own customers into thinking something is real when it’s not, you know, you could go down a whole lot of bad paths with this, including, you know, fake testimonials and all sorts of things that I think are, we certainly would not advise on this show, but like the deep fakes that we talked about, I think it’s great to know that this technology exists so that you can watch out for it – either you, or your competition, or whoever else – and be aware of it and look, let’s keep it real folks.

Joey Coleman (22:08):
Absolutely. I mean, I don’t think I want to be very clear. I’m not suggesting any of our listeners create deep fake customers or personas. But what I am suggesting is that the landscape of influencers and content creation is changing in ways that I think most people aren’t even aware of let alone, considering I’d ask those people who are listening to answer this question, honestly, had you even heard of Lil Miquela before this segment? Now the answer is no. I’d like to suggest that you ask some teenagers, you know, or some folks that are in their early twenties, if they’ve heard of Lil Miquela and if so, what if they, what do they think of her or her music, or if you’re not into regular conversations with, uh, teens or people in their early twenties go to Lil Miquela’s Instagram profile and look through some of the images, try to find ones that you know are fake, but look real and then read her posts and the comments and the interactions and see if you can get a feel for what the personality is like. And then ponder the fact that you’re considering a personality and a persona that is entirely computer generated, and then ask what would happen if you brought this same level of creative thinking and technology application to the experiences that you’re creating for your customer.

Joey Coleman (23:28):
Almost everyone has interacted with chatbots, but all too often, it’s been a bad experience. In MythBusters – presented by Solvvy – we explore a common myth about CX chatbots and see how the right technology can create a positive experience every time.

Joey Coleman (23:54):
Today’s myth about chatbots? Chatbots are difficult and expensive to build and manage. Most people think that chatbots require significant time and an entire engineering team to build, not to mention dedicated subject matter experts and even more engineers to manage on an ongoing basis. Once the chatbot is put in place. In other words, chatbots require lots of time, money, and resources.

Dan Gingiss (24:22):
Now, while there is a myth that chatbots are expensive and difficult to manage, the reality is that modern chatbots are easy to implement and can learn on their own. Unlike traditional chatbots that require you to code for every possible question and answer combination you might possibly see next gen chatbots are able to access your company’s help content and use that information to answer customer questions.

Joey Coleman (24:46):
You don’t need to have a whole team on standby either. The chat bot learns and updates answers dynamically, which means the chatbot continues to get better with each passing day. Now, the best part modern chatbots can be fully rolled out and implemented in weeks, not months, and often don’t require any engineering support, friends. This isn’t like creating a computer, generated Instagram influencer and growing her following to 3 million plus people. No! It’s much easier and it requires a much smaller investment.

Dan Gingiss (25:20):
Well, that sounds so much better than what I was thinking, Joey, because let’s be honest. I didn’t exactly go to school to be a computer engineer. And I like how that a project isn’t going to have costs that spiral out of control once I decide to jump in.

Joey Coleman (25:34):
That’s another myth busted, thanks to our friends at Solvvy – the Next Gen Chatbot.

Joey Coleman (25:43):
Sometimes a remarkable experience deserves deeper investigation. We dive into the nitty gritty of customer interactions and dissect how, and why, they happen. Join us while we’re Dissecting the Experience.

Joey Coleman (26:00):
I receive a fair number of e-newsletters each week and every once in a while, something grabs my attention and causes me to act such was the case. When I was reading my buddy Nathan Barry’s newsletter. Now Nathan is the CEO of ConvertKit, a fantastic email marketing tool, and while his communications are often about advances in email technology or growing subscribers or turning audience members into fans, this particular email was all about salt.

Dan Gingiss (26:31):
Was it worth its salt?

Joey Coleman (26:34):
Gosh, I can’t believe you went there. Yes, yes, indeed. It was worth its salt. So Nathan told this story of some salt that his wife ordered from San Juan Island Sea Salt. That’s the name of the company. And the story was so different and so interesting that based on his telling of the story alone, I decided to order some, I then had my own experience with the salt, which I wanted to dissect in our conversation here today.

Dan Gingiss (27:02):
All right! Let’s spice things up!

Joey Coleman (27:07):
Sorry ladies and gentlemen, he’s out of control! All right. Let’s get into the salt. All right. So first things first I went to SanJuanIslandSeaSalt.com. Okay. Real easy to remember URL San Juan,

Dan Gingiss (27:21):
It’s real sea salt, right?

Joey Coleman (27:24):
This is not Lil Miquela’s favorite sea salt.. And I immediately saw this text, “Sunshine and seawater. It’s a simple formula. We rely on purely solar heat to evaporate our seawater. No fans, no heaters, no boiling.” Now Dan, you’ve never heard of San Juan Island sea salt before, correct?

Dan Gingiss (27:45):
I can’t say that I have Joey…

Joey Coleman (27:47):
But what do you think they sell?

Dan Gingiss (27:49):
Uh, I’m going to go out on a limb and say sea salt?

Joey Coleman (27:52):
Exactly. And where are they based?

Dan Gingiss (27:54):
Oh, how about San Juan Island?

Joey Coleman (27:57):
And how do you think they make the salt? What’s the process by which they make the salt?

Dan Gingiss (28:02):
Oh, well it’s a simple formula. They rely on purely solar heat to evaporate the seawater. No fans, no heaters, no boiling!

Joey Coleman (28:09):
Exactly. Now here’s the crazy thing. I know you are a huge fan of clear language and using specific, clear, easy to understand by everyone language in your marketing. And here I am three and a half seconds into their website experience. And I know exactly what they do. That’s not always the case when I go to a website. In fact, that’s rarely the case. When I go to a website now, a couple of the text, I just shared with the images of the water and the various greenhouses, where they had these trays of water laid out to dry in the sun. And then more images of them actually scooping salt out of the trays. And I get it. So now it’s time to check out their website navigation. So I see the following words for the navigation: Story, Salt, Shop, Honey, and Contact.

Dan Gingiss (28:57):
Well, this is very clear and straight forward and much better than navigation on a lot of companies, websites. We talked about this as well in a previous episode about how navigation I remember we had, we talked to those, to that design company that had gone through the B2B navigation site.

Joey Coleman (29:18):
Exactly! And basically found that the navigation was horrid. Yeah, actually, Oh,

Dan Gingiss (29:22):
Now I got it. Joey. It was Season two, episode 48. Of course it was Tank Design.

Joey Coleman (29:29):
Wow, impressive. Impressive. Yeah. I would not have remembered this specific episode or season as usual. I love it. I love it. So I decided that I would click on story because I to learn more,

Dan Gingiss (29:42):
You see, I would’ve chosen honey, but okay. Keep going.

Joey Coleman (29:44):
I figured as much exactly. Well then I learned that the business began when the founder is a young college student made sea salt for Christmas gifts. He and his friends boiled seawater on their parents’ stove, but it took forever. It made a huge mess in a wasted, a ton of electricity. So years later, after working on a vegetable farm, he thought he could use his greenhouse building skills to create a salt operation. That was more energy efficient. He created a batch, took some jars to the local farmer’s market and sold $700 the first day.

Dan Gingiss (30:14):
I love it. He was like a self-made man with salts. I mean, it’s, that’s a fantastic story. And I love that story is even part of their navigation and, and you’re right for going there because we all like a good story about a brand. We all want to hear where things come from. A lot of people, I know you and your wife care very much about how things are made and where they come from and how environmentally friendly it is and all that sort of thing. So this definitely sounds interesting.

Joey Coleman (30:43):
Yeah. You know, it’s salt, it’s something that we use pretty regularly. I would say almost every dinner. There’s some involvement in salt, either in the preparation of the meal or in the actual eating of the meal. And this is kind of a fun way to support a local small business. So I’m in, unlike in the story, I think it’s fascinating. And so I went to their shop and I purchased three jars of salt, their signature natural salt, a steak blend salt, and a bull kelp salt.

Dan Gingiss (31:15):
Of course you went for the bull kelp salt! What the heck is bull kelp salt anyway?

Joey Coleman (31:20):
Well, I was wondering the same thing. And when I read the description on their website, which I’m going to share here in a second, I was sold before I got to the last paragraph. So let me read this. And you tell me when you’ve moved from just being curious or intrigued to, I got to taste this. “Bull kelp (Nereocystis lutkeana) is the king of the vegetative waterworld here in the Pacific Northwest. It has always captured my imagination for the thick forest. It forms along our islands, Rocky shores and for its sheer growing ability. Its average growth rate is four inches a day. But what many people don’t realize is that bull kelp is also a delicious and nutritious seafood. It’s with this in mind that we bring you our Pacific Northwest inspired flavored salt. We source our bull kelp from a very cool small family business in British Columbia, Canada called BC kelp. The business is run by a lovely young couple and they wild harvest all different sorts of seaweed in a sustainable manner from the cold clean waters of the queen, Charlotte islands. In fact, they learned their trade studying under the legendary wild plant guru, Ryan Drum of Waldron Island. The taste and smell of this product will remind you of picnics on a Rocky Northwest beach in the summer briny, salty, with a deep green earthiness. We like our kelp salt on eggs potatoes. And of course, salmon rounding out local seafoods “merroir” like terroir for the sea.

Dan Gingiss (32:52):
Oh, sign me up. I’m hungry, man.

Joey Coleman (32:55):
I mean, I, I read this and I was like, Oh my gosh, the story is in the product listing. And like, I want to know about this couple and I’m intrigued like, Oh, they’re getting the kelp and they’re mixing it in. And then as it dries, I’ve got little kelp flakes blended in with the salt and I’m there. So I put everything in the cart and I get a message saying that because of COVID they were only shipping once a week. So understandably expect some delays receiving the salt and then they signed off with a message. It said, “Thank you for shopping with us. It allows our family to do what we love for a living and live in the most beautiful place in the world. We’re so grateful for the opportunity to serve you.”

Dan Gingiss (33:31):
I see. There you go. You just put some money on your credit card. You could have buyer’s remorse, but you get a message like that and you feel good about making that purchase.

Joey Coleman (33:40):
Absolutely. And let me tell you I’ve purchased salt at the grocery store many times over the years I’ve even purchased some kind of fancy salts. I’ve never felt like I’m actually helping a human live, their dream and help their family, and envisioning what their salt farm must look like. Now, despite thinking that it would be a week to 10 days before I received my salt, three days later, a package arrived in the mail with a sticker on the side that featured an infographic that explained the sea salt harvest process at San Juan Island Sea Salt and an illustration of Essene. I think I’m saying Essene’s name properly, but if I’m not, please forgive me. Evidently as Essene is the employee that packed our salt and it showed that as Essene’s favorite product offered by San Juan Sea Salt is their Chili Lime Salt, the favorite place on the Island is Ruben Tart park in the Moonlight, and a little factoid about Essene is that their first job ever was wrapping caramels with San Juan Island Sea Salt

Dan Gingiss (34:45):
Things here. Sign me up for some chili lime salt, please. And I also noticed that this company sells caramels with sea salt and sign me up for some of those too.

Joey Coleman (34:55):
Amen brother. Right? How classic that they’ve built this entire salt based ecosystem.

Dan Gingiss (35:02):
All right. So we got to get down to this. So yeah, open the package, cook up your salmon or whatever it is and you use it was this like better than the salt at the grocery store.

Joey Coleman (35:12):
Oh my gosh. Here’s the thing. Not only do I think it tasted better, but I actually thought about the story while I was eating it. And I shared with my family, Hey, guess how they made this salt? I’m talking to my boys about how we made salt and I’ll be honest. And maybe this shows bad parenting that prior to now, we’ve never had a conversation about where does our table salt come from,

Dan Gingiss (35:35):
Terrible.

Joey Coleman (35:37):
But I found myself talking about it and the boys were asking about the bull kelp and you know, how did it work and how, what does it mean to harvest kelp? And how does that work? And we’re now living in Iowa and we’ve got a family farm here and so we are going to be, you know, the boys were part of the harvest that we had last fall and they’re going to be part of the planting in the spring. So it just felt like this great opportunity to connect with the source of our food, which is you and I have talked about before is increasingly such a big part of what so many consumers are looking for. Now, you might be listening to this and thinking to yourself, okay, but Joey, I don’t have a sea salt company. I don’t have a product company. I don’t…

Dan Gingiss (36:20):
Bring it home Joey. That’s what they’re saying. Bring it home!

Joey Coleman (36:22):
Let’s dissect it. What can we do? Number one, make sure your website is straightforward and easy to navigate. Explain what you do quickly and efficiently. Go on your website right now and if in 3.5 seconds, a brand new visitor, who’s never even heard of your company knows doesn’t understand exactly what you do, start rewriting your copy. Number two, tell your story in a compelling way, your imagining what this family looks like. You’re imagining harvesting the bulk help. You’re imagining what it looks like to stand in these greenhouses and see the sun evaporating the seawater and leaving the salt that they then scoop into the jars. Why are you imaginating that? Why are you imaginating that? That’s classic

Dan Gingiss (37:04):
Why are you making up words?!

Joey Coleman (37:05):
Exactly. Why are you imagining that? Because they told a great story. So explain your inspirations, explain your evolutions. Number three, make it easy to give you money. Oh man, the checkout process should be smooth and you should manage expectation. And they did a great job. Number four, be sincere. Say, thank you. Explain how much you appreciate your customers’ patronage. Number five, deliver early. It’s better to tell me the package will be there in 10 days and then have it arrive in half that time then to tell me it will take two days and have it arrive on day three. And number six, use your packaging to continue telling your story long after the sale has concluded. Don’t make your packaging just about a brand expression. Make it a story expression. Now, if you’ve been intrigued by San Juan Island Sea Salt, I suggest you check them out. See if you like their story. And if you do buy some salt and by the way, there might be some salt sitting around here in some care packages that we send to some of our loyal listeners who reach out and share ideas with us for segments during season seven, or make suggestions for our new, ask us anything segment you might’ve heard about in one of our earlier episodes or take other steps just to let us know you’re listening. Hey, we want to send you some salt and whether it’s the chili lime salt or the bull kelp salt, you think you’re going to like it!

Dan Gingiss (38:23):
And it’s going to be worth it’s salt!

Joey Coleman (38:25):
Thanks for joining us for another episode of Experience This! You are the best listener ever!

Dan Gingiss (38:36):
And since you listened to the whole show,

Joey Coleman (38:38):
Yay you!

Dan Gingiss (38:39):
We’re curious… Was there a specific part of this episode that you enjoyed the most? If so, it would mean the world to us if you could share it with a coworker, a friend, or someone that just loves listening to podcasts!

Joey Coleman (38:50):
And while you’re in the sharing mood, if you felt inclined to jump over to iTunes or wherever you find your podcasts and write us a review, we would so appreciate it. And when you do, don’t forget to let us know as we might have a little surprise for you.

Dan Gingiss (39:05):
Thanks again for your time and we’ll see you next week for more,

Joey Coleman (39:08):
Experience!

Dan Gingiss (39:08):
This!

Episode 120 – Zero In on Small, Personalized Touches

Join us as we discuss a portrait of your pet, zeroing in on customer centricity, and how “mini” — and even “no” — have become big..

Painting, Disrupting, and Adapting – Oh My!

Host Contact Information

Email Dan: Dan@dangingiss.com

Tweet Dan Gingiss: @DGingiss

Email Joey: JoeyC@JoeyColeman.com

DanGingiss.com

JoeyColeman.com

Subscribe to Experience This on Apple Podcasts

Learn more about our Season 7 Partner – Solvvy – The NextGen Chatbot

Episode Transcript

Download an unedited transcript of Episode 120 here or read it below:

Joey Coleman (00:05):
Welcome to Experience This!

Dan Gingiss (00:08):
The podcast that celebrates remarkable customer experiences and inspires you to stand out from the competition by wowing your customers.

Joey Coleman (00:17):
Each episode, we bring you a healthy dose of inspiring stories, funny interactions, and practical takeaways. Marketing and customer experience thought leader, Dan Gingiss…

Dan Gingiss (00:30):
shares the mic with customer retention and employee experience expert Joey Coleman, helping you to get people talking about your business.

Joey Coleman (00:40):
So get, ready because it’s time to Experience This!

Dan Gingiss (00:48):
Get ready, for another episode of the Experience This Show!

Joey Coleman (00:54):
Join us as we discuss: a portrait of your pet, zeroing in on customer centricity, and how “mini” and even “no” have become big.

Dan Gingiss (01:07):
Painting, Disrupting and Adapting – Oh my!

Joey Coleman (01:15):
There are so many great customer experience articles to read, but who has the time?! We summarize them and offer clear takeaways you can implement starting tomorrow. Enjoy this segment of CX Press – where we read the articles, so you don’t need to!

Dan Gingiss (01:33):
This week’s CX Press comes to us from one of my local newspapers, the Chicago Sun Times, and it’s entitled, “Cezanne or Chewy?” Now we’ve talked about Chewy, the online pet supplies retailer in two previous episodes – Episode 17 where we shared some customer stories, and Episode 50 where we talked about what I called “the greatest customer service email in the history of customer service or email.” Now they’ve achieved the trifecta!

Joey Coleman (02:06):
Has anybody else even come close to the trifecta Dan? I don’t think so. Like I know we’ve talked about Amazon and Apple. We’ve talked about lots of great brand experiences, but I don’t think anybody – but Chewy – has done three separate segments totally on their business.

Dan Gingiss (02:21):
I think it is possible this is a first… I’d have to go back and look in the archives.

Joey Coleman (02:25):
Woo! I’m feeling excited. This is, this is groundbreaking stuff here.

Dan Gingiss (02:28):
Well, Chewy was in the news again just after New Year’s with this story. And I know you’re a pretty big art fan, Joey, but can you even imagine how a famed artist like Paul Cezanne gets compared to a pet supplies company?

Joey Coleman (02:43):
I can not. I can not. I, as you know, am definitely familiar with Cezanne’s work and am a fan of Cezanne’s work, but Cezanne plus Chewy? I’m confused.

Dan Gingiss (02:52):
Well, it turns out that Chewy sends out more than a thousand hand-painted portraits of its’ customers pets every week… just as a surprise to say, thank you. Now, not surprisingly, the pictures have become social media gold. As many of the lucky recipients post them online for their friends and followers to fawn over. And one customer even told the Sun Times, quote, “I just want to buy everything from them. They’re a big company. I was shocked that they did something so personal.”

Joey Coleman (03:25):
Oh, I love it. I love this story. I love this behavior by Chewy. I love the personalization. But most importantly, I want to go back to that quote from the article. “I just want to buy everything from them. They’re a big company. I was shocked they did something so personal.” There’s two pieces of this puzzle friends: if you create remarkable customer experiences, your customers will want to do business with you again, and again, and again, and again. And the bigger you are, the less they expect something personal. Or if you’re in an industry that is not notoriously known for personal interactions and you do something personal, it is going to shock and all them, this is definitely, you know, while I get that, not everybody who’s listening is going to start sending, you know, hand painted portraits of their customers’ pets to them, there is a variation on this theme in every listener’s business.

Dan Gingiss (04:25):
Well, and I would go so far as to say that being big is not an excuse for not trying this.

Joey Coleman (04:31):
Totally! Totally!

Dan Gingiss (04:33):
And so look, they don’t send it to every customer and that’s okay. They’re sending it to a lot of customers, but just because they’re big doesn’t mean that they can’t make something like this happen, and operationalize it, and scale it. Now, they’re a little bit secretive about how they select which pets they feature. You can’t purchase the portraits – even if you ask really nicely to customer service, they’ll say no. The article says that Chewy works with hundreds of artists around the country who create them based on customer photographs. So obviously there’s some process in which customers have to send or upload a photograph of their pet,

Joey Coleman (05:09):
But this is also a great way by the way, to, you know, give back for them too, for lack of a better way of putting it for chewy to support some local artists as well. I mean, hundreds of local artists, it sounds like.

Dan Gingiss (05:21):
Absolutely for sure. And one of the most interesting parts for me of this article was there was a big discussion about how well chewy is doing as a company. And let me just give you some stats. The company has become the number two in the pet supplies industry with a 34% market share. Now, Amazon is first at 50% – and it’s benefited from two different pandemic trends. The first is that people are staying home and not venturing out to big box retailers and people are adopting new pets at a record pace. In fact, Chewy added 5 million new customers in 2020 and its stock price tripled. So anybody that asks you does customer experience pay off? Is there an ROI to customer experience? Here’s perhaps the only company that we featured on three different segments on a customer experience show and look at how well their business is doing. So this stuff works now, is it cheap? No – they’re paying artists, they’re shipping out these portraits. It’s some money. There’s no question they’re investing in this, but look, what happens. These customers get the portraits. They feel so great about chewy. They want to go share it with their friends and followers on social media, which of course is basically doing Chewy’s marketing for the company, right? So this is marketing dollars that is much better spent in my opinion than buying a Facebook ad or sending out yet another email campaign.

Joey Coleman (06:58):
Absolutely. And Dan, I guarantee that the folks at Chewy that are responsible for coordinating these paintings are having fun to. Talk about a fantastically unexpected moment of surprise and delight for the customer… But I would imagine, you know, getting the art back from the artist and seeing the paintings and seeing the photographs of those and knowing when the customer receives them, how happy they’re going to be. And then seeing the posts on social media, this kind of gets back into that whole thing we talked about in our last episode, this idea of your culture being part of the customer experience. They create better experiences for the customers, which by default create better experiences for the employees, and these things have a tendency to feed in a fulfilling.

Dan Gingiss (07:43):
And another thing I would add here is I know some listeners are saying, okay, that’s great, but Julia is a pet supplies company. So of course they’re going to do portraits of their pets. But I think almost every company has an opportunity to do something personalized for their customers. So let’s say that you’re a B2B software company, right? Couldn’t be any farther away from a retail pet supplies company. But you know, what’s been happening over the last year. You’ve been on more zoom calls with people and you know, what’s been happening during those zoom calls. People’s pets come into the picture, their dogs, their cats, they’re all over the place. So you actually know that your clients have pets. Now, you don’t have to send them a portrait, but can you imagine what would happen if one of your clients received a bag of treats in the mail from you for their pet, the way that people think about their pets as family members that is going to go a really long way with people. We also know a lot more about people’s kids and spouses and everybody else has been running over and running through the picture in the last year. And I think that’s a good thing because it adds a level of familiarity between people that wasn’t there before, even between colleagues at the same company that wasn’t there before. And I think that we can leverage this as businesses because the more that we know about people, the better we can connect with them. I just had a call the other day with somebody where I was doing sort of them the favor, right. They called on me for some advice and help, and I met with him for half an hour. And the next thing I knew, I got a package in the mail from Amazon and it was a t-shirt that had a pinball machine on it that said “Pinball Wizard!

Joey Coleman (09:22):
Oh, nice. Right to Dan’s heart ladies and gentlemen.

Dan Gingiss (09:25):
He knew that that’s something that I loved. We didn’t even talk about pinball!

Joey Coleman (09:28):
Chicago Cubs, pinball wizard, pinball games, board games, and I don’t know… imperfect produce! Those are like four high listing, uh, loves of Dan Gingiss, ladies and gentlemen.

Dan Gingiss (09:42):
And what I thought was great was that we didn’t even talk about it. You know, he saw that somewhere online. He learned that about me, it’s in one of my bios or whatever. And man, I mean, how much better is that than just sending something random or not sending anything at all.

Joey Coleman (09:57):
Or sending something with your logo on it. I mean, at the end of the day, friends, this far into the pandemic, if you aren’t creating personal connections with the people that you are literally seeing into their homes, again, whether that’s your clients, your customers, your colleagues, your coworkers, you’re missing a huge opportunity. And if you don’t want to go so far as to order them a gift or a present, what about just asking them a question, being on the Zoom call with them and saying, Hey, that looks like a really interesting piece of art behind you. What is that? Or where did you get that? Or, Hey, is that a photograph I see on your desk? Who’s in the photograph or was that a streaker that just ran by? Oh, that was your three-year-old. Oh, well, do we need to end the call? You know, there’s any number of ways that we can engage in a personal way to bring a little more humanity back to our discussions. You know, one of the things I’ve been spending a lot of time thinking about over the course of the last year and is going to be a subject of a future book is this idea that we talk about customer experience and we talk about employee experience, but at the end of the day, isn’t it really all just human experience. And the more we lean into the human experience, I think the better interactions, the better reactions, the better situations, the better scenarios we’ll be able to create, not only for the people we interact with, but for ourselves as well.

Joey Coleman (11:25):
We’re excited to give you an overview of an important book you should know about – as well as share some of our favorite passages – as part of our next Book Report.

Dan Gingiss (11:41):
Today’s book report is “The Zero In Formula: The Definitive Guide to Building a Disruptive and Sustainable Business Through Customer Centric Innovation” by author Dennis Geelen. The book is brand new, just released in 2021, and starts with an important question: can a business be disruption proof? A pandemic reveals the answers. There are also lots of case studies, including from Coca Cola, Goodwill, and Kodak. And it also contains a self-assessment tool that helps companies rate their effectiveness when it comes to customer centric and innovative strategies, tools, and practices. Now, as always, we ask the authors to summarize the book for us. So here’s Dennis Geelen describing the Zero In Formula, in his own words:

Dennis Geelen (12:31):
The Zero In Formula was written specifically for business owners and leaders. Whether you’re looking to start a new company or you’ve been in business for several years, I believe that all organizations larger, small in all industries face two major challenges that eventually decide their longterm fate. And that’s the problem of indifference. So why is that two challenges? Because the indifference can either be external. Your customers are internal, your team members. You end up with indifferent customers when there’s no compelling reason to purchase your product or service, rather than your competitors. Internally, many businesses end up with indifferent employees who are complacent because they’re just not passionate about coming to work each day, the company has no compelling purpose or direction, or the culture is either too rigid or too stale. The Zero In Formula is a guidebook to help leaders win the battle against indifference by laying out a framework for a customer centric and innovative company. When your business is truly customer centric, you are intentional about having proper strategies and tools in place to know your customers and building your company around, serving them and giving them the ultimate customer experience. An innovative organization is one where new ideas for products and services and experiences and processes that better serve your customers, don’t happen by accident. Innovative companies understand the principles and practices required to cultivate a culture of collaborative teamwork, focused on finding new and better ways of doing things. The book is full of tools, templates, and strategies that any leader can apply to their own business or team. And it’s chocked full of examples and stories from businesses and leaders around the globe. That’s going to help the reader relate and resonate. My consulting practice is called Zero In, and this book and feels the formula that I use when working with my business clients, allowing you to harness these proven tactics in your company, to become a customer centric and innovative as possible and set your business up for longterm success.

Joey Coleman (14:37):
I think the call-out about indifference emerging from both external and internal forces is spot on. We know that happy employees equal happy customers, but the word indifference is so powerful because that’s when people decide to leave a company when they don’t care. You know, it’s interesting. I remember in school being asked the question like in junior high, what is the opposite of love? And a lot of kids in the class thought, and myself included at first, the opposite of love was hate. When the reality is the opposite of love is indifference. It’s that you actually don’t care at all. And I think that is so true and so often people are, you know, worried about who the haters are, is our friend Jay Baer would say, when the reality is we need to pay more attention to things we’re doing that are creating moments of indifference. You know, on every book report, we love having the author pick their favorite passage as well. And so enjoy while Dennis reads his favorite section from the book:

Dennis Geelen (15:43):
The story of Greg Meade, Chris Mead, Mike Del Papa, and their company CrossNet is one of just over 627,000 new businesses starting up in the U S each year. New technologies, new ways of communicating, connecting, and selling means more products, more services, and more business models to meet newfound needs. It’s easier now to start up a business than in any era in the past, the internet provides access to the tools and resources. You need to understand how to start a business at your fingertips. If capital is required, there’s venture capitalists and angel investors looking to help finance the next big business idea. Stats for the U.S. show that there are over 30 million small businesses in the country alone making up 99.9% of all U.S. businesses. Starting a company is easy, but just starting is not the goal studies show. 20% of new businesses fail during the first two years, 45% fail in the first five years and 65% in the first 10 years, only 25% of businesses survive 15 years or more. Why? What mistakes are businesses making? If there’s more demands, if it’s easier to market and sell to people around the world. And if the, if you have the information and resources required to start a business, what’s the problem? To put it simply, with more businesses, there’s more competition. Will CrossNet be a long-term successful game, product and company, for sure, off to a terrific start, but many opportunities and challenges lie ahead for the young entrepreneurs. How will they face those challenges? Time will be the ultimate judge, but as you will see in this chapter, CrossNet has a big leg up on other businesses by deciding to build theirs on a proper foundation, you know,

Dan Gingiss (17:35):
Like to share my favorite passage from the book as well, and then give Joey a chance to do so. For me, it was a setup in the introduction that called out two reasons why so many companies fail and here they are: “(1) they lose sight of the purpose behind why they started after some success. The focus turns to maximizing quarterly revenues, finding efficiencies for standardizing their processes. There are no longer the customer centric and innovative company that they were in the beginning. (2) They’re not flexible and adaptable to handle major challenges that come their way and economic downturn, a new player in the industry, a change in customer habits will disrupt their business model. They’re too rigid or stubborn to adapt and customers end up leaving.

Joey Coleman (18:31):
Oh, if there’s anything that the last year has taught, hopefully every business on the planet, is the importance of adaptability friends. I can’t imagine that your business today has the exact same service offerings and exact same product offerings, delivered in the same way that it did a year ago. And it’s so funny because pre-pandemic, I think this concept of adapting was something that was, you know, regularly thrown around. Well, either adapter become extinct. And, you know, it was kind of a trope that was used in a lot of different business books and business discussions. But I think every business has had to do that and has realized that we probably weren’t as flexible as we had believed that we were. My favorite quote is as follows: “If after collecting data surveying and talking to your customers, you are still not able to understand the emotions they feel and subsequently empathize with them, I highly suggest you put yourself in their shoes. There’s credence to the old saying, “do not judge a man until you walk a mile in his shoes” and “do unto others, as you would have them do onto you.” Ultimately, if you are able to know exactly what your customers are feeling that caused them to want, or need your products or services, how it makes them feel when your product or services provide the value they need, how it feels when your products or services do not provide the value they require, then you are now set up to do something about it and serve them the way you would want to be served the best way to understand how your customers feel is to experience and feel the same things yourself.

Dan Gingiss (20:16):
You know, I’m so glad you selected that passage, Joey, because I’m often asked what’s one tip that you can give to companies if they need to start thinking about customer experience or to really change how they’re doing things. And my tip is always become a customer of your own company. It is unbelievable to me how many companies there are, where the executives, the employees, are not customers of their own companies. So they have no idea what customers actually go through.

Joey Coleman (20:49):
Or if they are customers, Dan, they get the special VIP helpline. They don’t have to call into the main call center. They get to, you know, have a private, “immediately picked up” solution to all of their tech problems.

Dan Gingiss (21:03):
They’ve got the Bat Phone on their desk. Right?

Joey Coleman (21:05):
Exactly. Exactly.

Dan Gingiss (21:06):
And yeah. And so that’s not understanding how customers experience you either. And I’ll tell you another thing is if you sit through call listening in a, in a contact center, you’ll be amazed when you hear the customer’s own voice talk about doing business with you. It is eye-opening, it’s humbling and you’ll learn what you’re doing well and what you’re not. And so I think this is so key to get into your customer’s shoes and either become a customer or, you know, in some businesses, it may be impossible for you to do that. You’ve got to saddle up next to an existing customer and have them walk you through what it’s like. Or you’ve got to listen in your call center and hear what people have to say. So I thought this was a really great book to kick off 2021. This idea of avoiding indifference with your employees and your customers is so important. And the idea of understanding the experience from your customer’s eyes, all terrific tips. We encourage you to pick up the Zero In Formula: The Definitive Guide to Building a Disruptive and Sustainable Business Through Customer Centric Innovation” by Dennis Geelen, wherever fine books are sold.

Joey Coleman (22:22):
Almost everyone has interacted with chatbots, but all too often, it’s been a bad experience. In MythBusters – presented by Solvvy – we explore a common myth about CX chatbots and see how the right technology can create a positive experience, every time.

Dan Gingiss (22:47):
Today’s myth about chatbots? they’re designed to replace your support team. Many people think that adding a chat bot means you’ll no longer need live agent support. That support seems there’ll be downsize and that personalization and the high quality of support will inevitably suffer.

Joey Coleman (23:05):
Now while people worry all about the replacement of the support team, the reality is that modern chat bots effectively supplement your team. They don’t replace it. You will always need agents for your VIP customers and for your extremely complex issues. That being said, we can all agree that it’s no fun answering basic, repetitive questions all day long things like password resets, or collecting basic information so that you can find a customer’s account.

Dan Gingiss (23:36):
Chatbots can be invaluable in helping your team to scale during surges and activity, holidays, system outages, and other situations. Modern chatbots are also able to collect some info about a customer’s issue and pass that along to an agent to help speed up resolution time.

Joey Coleman (23:54):
I liked it because while I’m okay with the chat bot, answering a simple question. When I want to talk to a human, I want to talk to a human. We’ll learn more about advances in chat bot and support automation throughout the season.

Dan Gingiss (24:08):
That’s another myth busted – thanks to our friends at Solvvy – the Next Gen Chatbot.

Joey Coleman (24:13):
With a pandemic, sweeping the globe and shifting the way organizations interact with their customers. Many of the old ways of operating just don’t work anymore. As we all navigate a COVID-19 world, it’s time to Redesign the Experience.

Dan Gingiss (24:34):
You may remember way back in episode 46, that we talked about Sipsmith gin and its ingenious pop-up experience to get people, to taste their product in a new way.

Joey Coleman (24:45):
Which I always thought was funny because we’re going to be drinking gin and trying to say Sipsmith gin, Sipsmith gin.

Dan Gingiss (24:53):
Exactly. Keep sipping away! There was the impeccably dressed bartender, the choice of several tonic flavors, the garnish bar with more than a dozen options. And then the personalized name tag that each taster created and of course shared their creation on social media. I love that example so much that I’ve included it in my keynote presentations, and it’ll be in my new book coming out this year (but more on that in a future episode) – anyway, live tastings aren’t exactly popular right now due to the pandemic. So alcohol companies have had to adapt. And one fascinating trend is the return of the 50 milliliter mini bottle.

Joey Coleman (25:32):
Wait, you mean like the ones they have on airplanes or in the hotel minibar?

Dan Gingiss (25:37):
Yes, my world traveling friend, you are correct. And don’t worry. I know that you don’t drink alcohol, but there is something for you in this segment too, if you will just bear with me.

Joey Coleman (25:48):
All right. I’ll hang in there!

Dan Gingiss (25:50):
Many craft distillers have started producing more mini bottles due to tasting room closures and canceled events. As Scott Harris, co-founder of Catoctin Creek Distilling Company, told Whiskey Advocate magazine quote “Store tastings have stopped completely nationwide and without tastings, there is no easy way to get customers to try our products before committing to a larger 750 milliliter purchase.” Not surprisingly whiskey advocate focused on whiskey, examples of the trend, and they range from a $2 Bushmills Red Bush Irish whiskey to a $20 Johnny Walker Blue Label, even coveted single malts have gotten into the game. And one distiller compass box saw success packaging for different mini bottles into a set, essentially a tasting a box. This is a trend that is likely to continue because it gives people the ability to try before they buy any much lower cost. And importantly, just to Sipsmith figured out in a way that they would more typically consume the drink versus a plastic cup shot in the grocery.

Joey Coleman (27:01):
You know, I really liked this idea, Dan, because not only does it give you a little bit of a sampler, but it’s a much better experience for the brand, right? And those little bottles, they’re kind of fun. And, you know, I know from our mutual friend, Rohit Bhargava, there’s actually a mini liquor bottle museum in Scandinavia. Like these are fun, little design pieces. Uh, and I liked the idea that they’re, they’re pivoting and they’re adapting to this new world they’re in and creating something that, you know, consumers will get a chance to try it, you know, before they buy it or make a smaller investment to try it. But I got to admit, I’m a little curious, I mean, while this is interesting, you had mentioned there was a specific part of the story that you said I’d be excited about.

Dan Gingiss (27:43):
Well, actually it’s about a different pandemic trend related to alcohol, and that is that people are drinking more at home. And so there is a newfound demand for, are you ready for it? Non-alcoholic beer.

Joey Coleman (28:00):
Haha! Like, O’Douls and stuff like that?

Dan Gingiss (28:03):
Actually, specifically not like, O’Douls. It’s the craft breweries that are now getting into the game, creating Brown ales, wheat beers, IPA’s coffee, stouts, and even Oktoberfest varieties all without alcohol. Now this follows the success of a very big brand Heineken debuting it’s Heineken 0.0 product in 2019, which quickly became the number one selling non-alcoholic beer in the United States, knocking out your friends at O’Douls by the way. Now, according to the Chicago Tribune, non-alcoholic beer sales were up 38% in 2020. And although it still only represents one half of 1% of the entire beer industry, NAs are sprouting up everywhere and industry observers think that this trend has legs.

Joey Coleman (28:53):
Well, Dan, I am definitely interested in this one. I have not been a consumer of alcohol for wow. Probably close to we’re fast approaching 20 years now, more than 20 years now that I think about it. But what I love about this pivot or this kind of additional offering to the marketplace is, there are so many scenarios where I find myself at a bar or at a happy hour, obviously pre-pandemic and I’m sure this will come back post pandemic where there’s really nothing that I’m excited to order. You know, uh, as our listeners know, I’m a root beer fan. If there’s a root beer, I’m feeling good. If there isn’t a root beer, my default is usually a 7-Up or Sprite and grenadine, which is effectually known in most circles as a Shirley Temple, but it sounds more manly when I order it.

Dan Gingiss (29:48):
Or a kiddie cocktail!

Joey Coleman (29:48):
I like the idea of being able to have different options that, you know, maybe give more of a beer vibe or more importantly, kind of a beer look, because I know that’s important for some people when they’re out networking, they want to have a look as if they’re drinking a beer along with it. So I think this is an interesting, uh, an interesting trend to say the least.

Dan Gingiss (30:09):
Well, and also, I mean, you’re not the only person I know who doesn’t drink or who has stopped drinking alcohol. And there is often this residual desire for the, for the taste of it without the effect of the alcohol. And I think that what’s long been the case, is that NA beers have been a somewhat poor substitute that it just doesn’t, you know, it doesn’t have the bite or it doesn’t have the flavor or whatever. And when I started reading this list of like brown ales and coffee stouts and stuff like that, I think that sounds terrific and, and even as a person who is fine having a beer with alcohol in it, I would be more inclined in certain situations to order the non-alcoholic variety, because now I’ve got something to choose from that actually is interesting.

Joey Coleman (30:59):
Well, and you buy into the marketing, right? And the branding. And I’m not saying that as a, as a bad thing, right? Why do most people choose the products or the services they choose? There’s a heavy influence of branding. And I agree with you, it sounds a lot better to get, you know, a wheat beer or a coffee stout than what I often heard talked about in the bars. I didn’t say this, but, you know, an “O’Don’ts” as opposed to “O’Douls.” Right? And so I think there’s certainly space in the market for these type of offerings.

Dan Gingiss (31:28):
Yeah. And I think, again, the summary here is I thought, I mean, within the span of a week or so, I saw two articles about these two different trends in two different publications. And, you know, the miniature bottle thing is really interesting because companies are having trouble getting people to taste. And when you buy a 750 milliliter bottle, you’re usually forking out, you know, 30, 40, 50, 70, $90. And so people want to taste it before they buy it, which makes sense and they don’t have an avenue to do that. With the non-alcoholic beer piece, you have other parts of the pandemic that have affected this trend. People are drinking more at home and they’re realizing, Hey, I probably should cut back. And also, you know, people are looking for different things and this gives a new choice if you will, uh, to somebody who maybe wants a non-alcoholic option and doesn’t have to succumb to the Shirley temple or the orange juice or whatever it’s going to be. So I thought both of these were really interesting trends that have appeared because of the pandemic, but trends that demonstrate that pandemic era pivots may just create the next big thing. And even if not, are probably here to stay.

Joey Coleman (32:51):
Thanks for joining us for another episode of Experience This! You are the best listener ever!

Dan Gingiss (32:57):
And since you listened to the whole show…

Joey Coleman (32:59):
Yay, you!

Dan Gingiss (33:00):
We’re curious… Was there a specific part of this episode that you enjoyed the most? If so, it would mean the world to us if you could share it with a coworker, a friend, or someone that just loves listening to podcasts!

Joey Coleman (33:11):
And while you’re in the sharing mood, if you felt inclined to jump over to iTunes or wherever you find your podcasts and write us a review, we would so appreciate it. And when you do, don’t forget to let us know as we might have a little surprise for you!

Dan Gingiss (33:26):
Thanks again for your time and we’ll see you next week for more…

Joey Coleman (33:29):
Experience!

Dan Gingiss (33:29):
This!

Episode 117 – Making Your Mark on Brand Ambassadors

Join us as we discuss making your mark on your best customers, why the robots may be coming faster than we think, and how holiday shopping habits are changing amidst a global pandemic.

Ambassadors, Game-Changers, and Shoppers – Oh My!

[Dissecting the Experience] Making Your Mark on Brand Ambassadors

Things We Mentioned in This Segment:

Makers Mark
Maker’s Mark Ambassador Program
• “If this is a Consular Ship, where is the Ambassador?
Makers Mark Invitation
Giftology – by John Ruhlin
Never Lose a Customer Again – by Joey Coleman

[Book Report] The Age of Intent

Things We Mentioned in This Segment:

P.V. Kannan
[24]7.ai
Age of Intent – by P.V. Kannan
F8 Conference

[Partnership with Avtex] The Dream Job – Game Show Host!

Things We Mentioned in This Segment:

• Experience Points – presented by Avtex

[CX Press] Ecommerce Marketing 2020

• Ignite Visibility
• Ecommerce Marketing Study 2020

Host Contact Information

Email Dan: Dan@dangingiss.com

Tweet Dan Gingiss: @DGingiss

Email Joey: JoeyC@JoeyColeman.com

DanGingiss.com

JoeyColeman.com

Subscribe to Experience This on Apple Podcasts

Episode Transcript

Download an unedited transcript of Episode 117 here or read it below:

[SHOW INTRO]
Dan Gingiss (00:05):
Welcome to Experience This!

Joey Coleman (00:08):
Where you’ll find inspiring examples of customer experience, great stories of customer service, and tips on how to make your customers love you even more.

Dan Gingiss (00:17):
Always upbeat and definitely entertaining customer retention expert, Joey Coleman.

Joey Coleman (00:23):
and social media expert, Dan Gingiss, serve as your hosts for a weekly dose of positive customer experience.

Dan Gingiss (00:30):
So hold on to your headphones… It’s time to Experience This!

[EPISODE 117 INTRO]
Dan Gingiss (00:39):
Get ready, for another episode of the Experience This! Show!

Joey Coleman (00:45):
Join us as we discuss: making your mark on your best customers, why the robots may be coming faster than we think, and how holiday shopping habits are changing amidst a global pandemic.

Dan Gingiss (01:00):
Ambassadors, game changers, and shoppers. Oh My!

[SEGMENT INTRO – DISSECTING THE EXPERIENCE]
Joey Coleman (01:08):
Sometimes a remarkable experience deserves deeper investigation. We dive into the nitty gritty of customer interactions and dissect how and why they happen. Join us while we’re Dissecting the Experience.

[DISSECTING THE EXPERIENCE][Making Your Mark on Brand Ambassadors ]
Dan Gingiss (01:25):
Well, Joey it’s time for the holidays and you know what that means.

Joey Coleman (01:30):
Snow covered rooftops, the crackling fire, a glass of eggnog, presents under the tree…

Dan Gingiss (01:36):
Nope.

Dan Gingiss (01:36):
Wait, what do you mean? Nope. All of those things are coming?!

Dan Gingiss (01:39):
Well, those are all fine things except for eggnog, which I happen to think is the single grossest substance ever invented.

Joey Coleman (01:48):
You know, egg nog is not that bad. It can be pretty tasty if you get the right brand, if you get the right brand. It’s a branding question here.

Dan Gingiss (01:54):
But anyway, I wasn’t talking about that. I was actually thinking about something else. I was thinking about the annual gift that I receive in the mail from Maker’s Mark bourbon.

Joey Coleman (02:03):
They send you bourbon in the mail?

Dan Gingiss (02:06):
Uh, Joey, from your lips to the master distiller’s ears. But nope, I don’t think they’re allowed to do that, but still they always send me a gift and they have for years. Once a year, I get a surprise in the mail from Maker’s Mark. One year I got ice ball molds with their logo in it. I got a little miniature Christmas sweater for my bottle. I got a little Santa hat for my bottle. I got coasters. And one year I got this gigantic tube in the mail and I had no idea what it was. It turned out to be maker’s Mark wrapping paper, complete with the Makers Mark bows to go on top.

Joey Coleman (02:44):
Wow!

Dan Gingiss (02:44):
And I get all of these gifts because I am what is called a Maker’s Mark ambassador.

Joey Coleman (02:53):
Aww haw haw! So you should be properly addressed that way. I think going forward…

Dan Gingiss (02:56):
Mr. Ambassador, yes…

Dan Gingiss (02:58):
Actually, if you must…

Joey Coleman (02:59):
Is there an ambassador on this ship?!

Dan Gingiss (03:01):
I don’t know. I don’t know if I, this is maybe fast forwarding to the end here, but I’m actually an ambassador for life.

Joey Coleman (03:06):
How does that happen?!

Dan Gingiss (03:06):
So you should refer to me as “Mr. Ambassador” for life.

Joey Coleman (03:10):
Usually the ambassador changes with the next election and the next administration. So I’m, I’m calling fake news on this ambassador for life thing!

Dan Gingiss (03:19):
I caan show you my “Ambassador for Life” wooden business card, if you like.

Joey Coleman (03:25):
Wow. We should get a photo of that for the show notes!

Dan Gingiss (03:28):
Let me tell you how this began a long time ago, I went down to Louisville to visit and I did a distillery tour or wanted to do a story to, or rather at Maker’s Mark, which is actually located outside of Louisville in Loretto, Kentucky. And unfortunately the day that I got there, they told me that the distillery was closed. Why was it closed? Well, because they were celebrating Ambassador Day and only ambassadors could take the distillery tour. So true story. I said to the nice lady, well, how do I become an ambassador?

Joey Coleman (04:01):
What kind of donation do I need to make? Or who did I need to be college roommates with to become an ambassador?

Dan Gingiss (04:06):
Exactly. And she said, just fill out this form.

Joey Coleman (04:12):
Wow! Nice!

Dan Gingiss (04:12):
Does it cost anything? No. Okay.

Joey Coleman (04:15):
Really?! Oh nice!

Dan Gingiss (04:16):
So I filled out the form and became Maker’s Mark’s newest ambassador, and then was allowed in on the distillery tour, which was great. Now what happens when you become an ambassador at maker’s Mark is they actually put your name onto like a metal badge onto the barrel. So it gets affixed onto the barrel. And your name is with, uh, I dunno, about 10 other names on each barrel. And for those that don’t know, I mean, a barrel makes at least a couple hundred bottles of, uh, of, uh, bourbon. So it’s big, but your name gets put on it and they send you in the mail, a photo of the, of your barrel that has your name on it. They send you a birth certificate, quote, unquote of, uh, the day that your barrel was born and was first filled.

Joey Coleman (05:03):
Nice. It’s kind of like the birth certificate you used to get if you got a Cabbage Patch Doll, but this is for grown ups.

Dan Gingiss (05:09):
Exactly!

Joey Coleman (05:10):
I like it! I like it!

Dan Gingiss (05:10):
They send you periodic videos of the progress of, uh, your barrel because you may or may not know Joey, but…

Joey Coleman (05:17):
It ages over time!

Dan Gingiss (05:18):
It does, at least at Maker’s Mark, for eight years.

Joey Coleman (05:22):
That’s a long aging process.

Dan Gingiss (05:25):
It is, it is. And so eight years Maker’s Mark is obviously playing a long game and I was trying to figure out all along the marketer in me, what is the long game? And during those eight years, every one of them, they sent me a gift at the holidays.

Joey Coleman (05:41):
Now, just to make sure I’m understanding, because I think our listeners might be wondering the same thing. You’re getting all these gifts and you haven’t spent a penny with them, right?

Dan Gingiss (05:51):
They don’t know and I think that’s one of the most fascinating parts…

Joey Coleman (05:55):
They might presume that because you’re an ambassador, like who would come and sign up to be an ambassador if they weren’t already a fan of the brand, but there’s no requirement to give them money to get these perks…

Dan Gingiss (06:04):
There is no requirement and they don’t have the ability to track because it’s a product that’s bought at a retail store. They don’t guarantee data right now, as it turns out, I am a fan of Maker’s Mark bourbon, but they, again, they don’t know that. And I think that’s one of the key parts of this story is that they, there is some faith that they’re putting into their ambassador program, that these are people that care enough about the brand. I mean, just some of the people take the gifts and go put them on eBay every year. Yes they do. But for the most part, these are people that really are big brand fans. And the climax of the experience comes when you get the invitation.

Joey Coleman (06:44):
The invitation, what is the invitation to?

Dan Gingiss (06:49):
Well, it actually looks like a wedding invitation and it’s got this fancy script writing. And it says that you’re cordially invited to Loretto, Kentucky, to Maker’s Mark distillery to claim two bottles of Maker’s Mark from your very own barrel. So your little, your baby, that you got the birth certificate for is now all…

Joey Coleman (07:11):
Eight years later, you get to go to the graduation ceremony and get two bottles. So let me guess… You got in your car, you drove the five and a half hours from Chicago to Loretto, and then you…

Dan Gingiss (07:22):
Wait, wait, whose story is this?

Joey Coleman (07:24):
Okay. Sorry. Sorry.

Dan Gingiss (07:26):
Okay. So I got in my car and I drove the five and a half hours from Chicago to Loretto. We had the most amazing experience at the distillery. I’m not kidding you walk in. And when you say that you’re here to collect your bottles, it is almost like how you greeted me at the beginning of this segment. Every one of the employees is in on the experience and they hand you a, they first give you a lapel pin to put on your shirt so that everybody knows that you are a visiting ambassador and they all treat you like you’re royalty. And you go through these various steps. So they actually handed me the bottles and they were completely blank. They were filled, but they were completely blank. And the first thing that I, the first station I went to, they printed a label and it was a personalized label. I could have it say anything, you know, my name or whatever, anything that I wanted on the label

Joey Coleman (08:16):
Gift for Joey Coleman, for example!

Dan Gingiss (08:17):
Exactly, except I an know that’s not appropriate gift or you so I wouldn’t do that.

Dan Gingiss (08:23):
My personalized label. And they print it out. I get to affix the labels to the bottles myself. And then they bring you over to anybody that knows the brand Maker’s Mark knows that the Maker’s Mark bottle is known for being dipped in wax. [inaudible]

Joey Coleman (08:39):
Right. Yeah. And it’s usually red, but if it’s one of the more signature brands I think they do a blue,

Dan Gingiss (08:44):
Well, they sometimes celebrate sports teams and that sort of thing, but I got to dip my own bottles into the hot wax and it was so cool. And of course at that station, you know, that it’s a different person, but that, that person is like, well welcome, Mr. Ambassador. We’re so happy to have you. And you know, everybody’s so nice. So you get to, you get to dip your, put your label on and you dip the thing. And anyway, this all happened. Probably now I’m going to say at least eight years ago that I went and picked up my eight year old bottle.

Joey Coleman (09:18):
So you’ve been an ambassador for 16 years…

Dan Gingiss (09:21):
Something like that. Yeah. Something like that. And you know, what’s really interesting. I have not opened either one of those bottles and I can’t.

Joey Coleman (09:28):
I feel like you never would, right? Because it’s like, Oh, it’s, it’s a memento. It’s not that, you know, you were going to drink it. It’s a, it’s an artifact of your experience.

Dan Gingiss (09:39):
Yeah – I could drink it and I could refill it. And no one would be any of the wiser other than me, but I would say, yes, that is true. But in any event, I am reminded of this every single year. And I haven’t yet gotten my maker’s Mark gift this year, but I will be sure to let you know when it comes, because it’s always creative, it’s branded, but not in the way that, uh, that your friend, John Ruhlin at Giftology says don’t do you know that it’s not like a commercial for Makers Mark after all, this is a brand that I have an affinity towards. So I kinda like that it’s branded.

Joey Coleman (10:13):
Sure, sure.

Dan Gingiss (10:14):
And I just, I think that the lesson here is that not enough companies play the long game with their customers and you know, you, we talk about, you know, your book talks about how to get people in the first hundred days to stick with you for a long time. And when we are able to improve our retention. And as I like to say, stop the leaky bucket and keep our customers, we still got to make sure that that experience continues to be something that’s worthy of them giving us their loyalty all these years.

Joey Coleman (10:47):
Absolutely. Well, I mean, this really appreciates the lifetime value of the customer. I mean, when you sign up to be an ambassador, they already have the next eight years of communications planned. Now they might not necessarily know what gifts they’re going to give in year five. Right? But they know they’re going to give you a gift in year five. And it wouldn’t surprise me if the folks at maker’s Mark, given the thoughtfulness that clearly they put into the ambassador experience that they’re actually planning out the gifts so that each year they’re kind of building in a sequence. So yeah. Talk about practicing what you preach. You say you care about your customers. How many of our listeners are really thinking about the relationship they’re going to have with their customer today, eight years from now?

Dan Gingiss (11:34):
Exactly, exactly. And that long game is so important. We talk about lifetime value, but we talk about it as a number, literally as a dollar amount. And that’s almost as bad as, you know, treating a customer like an account number, right? Your value is not just a dollar number. And I think if we look at our customers that way and look at the true long-term relationship and what that means, and, you know, for example, long-term value, doesn’t include how many times I tell people about Maker’s Mark, right? It might, it might include how many bottles I buy. I obviously we said they can’t track that, but for, you know, for your company out there, listeners, it might involve sales, but does it even take into consideration that a loyal customer is going to tell other people the other takeaway? I think that is important is it is the holiday season. And it is a, an obvious, but also still great time to remember your customers. You don’t have to send them a gift, but do something other than sending an email saying happy holidays, right? Do something that at least shows you – shows them – that you remember them and appreciate them and get them into the holiday spirit. As they’re thinking about,

[SEGMENT INTRO – BOOK REPORT]
Joey Coleman (12:44):
We’re excited to give you an overview of an important book you should know about as well as share some of our favorite passages as part of our next Book Report.

[BOOK REPORT][Age of Intent by P.V. Kannan]
Dan Gingiss (12:56):
This week’s Book Report features a book called the age of intent using artificial intelligence to deliver a superior customer experience. It’s written by PV Kannan, who is the founder and CEO of a company called 24 seven.ai, which is an artificial intelligence powered digital and voice automation platform. Now, I thought this was a provocative title because let’s face it. We’re still figuring out the role of artificial intelligence in our business, let alone in the customer experience.

Joey Coleman (13:29):
I agree, Dan, you know, I got to say, when you mentioned to me before we started recording that we were, when we talked about featuring this book in a book report, I was intrigued and I got even more intrigued when we got into the book, which we’ll come to because AI is talked about so much, but I know very few companies that have actually figured out how they’re going to do this. And I wonder if at some point we’ll look back on this time in history and be like, gosh, do you remember when people weren’t using AI? Kind of like we might say, geez, do you remember when people were using fax machines or do you remember when people didn’t have cell phones? You know, it seems so, so long ago and those are tools. Whereas I think of AI, as you know, frankly, at layering, a level of intelligence on your business that we can’t even begin to fathom all the things we’re going to learn.

Dan Gingiss (14:23):
Well, I can tell you, Mr. Kannan has started fathoming it and I think that’s what made this book really cool. And yeah, I agree. I mean, I look at AI and on one hand it scares me. And on the other hand, it excites me and I’m always reminded of a few years ago, I was asked to do a very, uh, private presentation in a Las Vegas conference room for a company’s top six or clients and one of the things they asked me to do in the presentation was to bring, and I’m quote, an example of a great chat bot. I was like, Oh my wow. That’s like the toughest assignment I’ve ever been given…

Joey Coleman (15:06):
That’s an oxymoron isn’t it? Like, especially then! Maybe now it’s better, but ugh…

Dan Gingiss (15:11):
Exactly. Then it really was tough. And I do think that it’s gotten far better and thanks to companies like [24]7 and so that’s what I thought it was really interesting. So let’s jump to PV Kannan, in his own words, giving us an overview of his book.

P.V. Kannan (15:27):
I wish that every company you interacted with could just know what you wanted and go get it for you. That when you pick up the phone or open the chat window that the company would use, what did knew about you to anticipate your needs there on the words of a future, just like that. As a leader of [24]7.ai, a company that uses AI to improve customer experience. I share my expertise here on how and why, which will agent rollout succeed or fail. Uh, explain how to architect key information systems overcome corporate resistance and bad practices and successfully analyzed customer journeys to make virtual agents effective. The book that I wrote, Age of Intent, is about a world where the smartest type of chat bots known as virtual agents are powered by artificial intelligence and connected to a customer’s complete profile and past history in order to be generous of the customer. These virtual agents can anticipate just what a customer is looking for, answering questions through chat on the phone, through Apple iMessage and Facebook Messenger and through smart speakers like Amazon’s Alexa and Google Home, they will transform the business world with efficient, scalable service. That’s available 24 seven and get smarter every day. The book contains real world examples from leading companies, both those who got it right and those who got it wrong – with lessons learned that you can apply to your business. I’m very proud to say that the age of intent was named one of the best business books by Strategy & Business and award-winning management magazine for decision-makers around the world. I hope you enjoy reading my book as much as I enjoyed writing it.

Dan Gingiss (17:27):
So, Joey, what do you think of the world of which P.V. speaks, where, and I quote, “every company you interacted with could just know what you wanted and go get it for you?”

Joey Coleman (17:38):
You know, Dan, like you said, before we heard from P.V., AI excites me, and intrigues me, and it terrifies me as well. Right? I think the, the most recent research I saw about Facebook and just the algorithms that are running and to make a distinction here, algorithms versus AI, two very different things. The algorithm, if you like a post after 150 likes the algorithm at Facebook is better at knowing whether you will like the next post you see than your spouse is and after 300 likes, it’s better at knowing whether you will like the next post than you are. Right. And that’s an algorithm. So the AI piece of this that is scary is like, Oh, at what point do the robots take over? And are they smart, quote, unquote smarter than us. But the flip side of it is every area of my life. I find myself running towards the convenient solution. I find myself running towards the thing that can take the parts of life that I don’t really get excited about and just put them on autopilot. Like I don’t get excited about finding out that we’re out of paper towels. Right? I would love it if they just showed up, I would love it. If just some of these things happen, I would love it. If you know, the 10 sites that I actually care about AI knew to put their Cyber Monday deals in front of me, you know, and that type of thing. So I do think there are some places where AI can really make our lives easier. And I’m excited to see what that’s gonna look like!

Dan Gingiss (19:14):
For sure. I mean, automation can be great. It’s a, it is a convenience factor. It’s a speed factor as, as you said, and those are things that we know customers want. I think the key is, and I’ve been saying this for a while, is that there is a human element that customers, I believe personally are always going to want to desire, but they certainly desire today. And the machine has to know when it’s hit its limit. And so what I ended up doing in that speech, by the way, because I literally at the time could not find one that I thought was worthy of sharing is I ended up sharing one that was held up by Mark Zuckerberg at, uh, at the at Facebook’s F8 conferences being, you know, one of the newest and greatest at the time. And I went through the experience and what I found was when I got stuck and I needed help, the whole experience collapsed because in my case, what happened was the chat bot asked me if I wanted to talk to customer service. I said, yes, it responded to customer service was closed, begging the question, why it asked me in the first place, but then, but then the live customer service agent actually joined the chat. And I was talking to both the bot and the agent at the same time.

Joey Coleman (20:31):
Nice.

Dan Gingiss (20:32):
And so like, my head was going to explode!

Joey Coleman (20:35):
Yeah, exactly. Well, and, and it begilles the phrase “artificial intelligence” when it’s not acting intelligent. Right. And chatbots probably aren’t necessarily seen as artificial intelligence and even the conversation or the example I was giving about automation really isn’t necessarily artificial intelligence. It’s maybe the lowest levels of artificial intelligence where my gut instinct is P.V. Is hinting at things that go beyond what we’ve seen now.

Dan Gingiss (21:04):
Absolutely. Absolutely. And that brings me to my favorite passage, which I think is one of his key selling points for why we should be thinking about this. And you and I have both heard hundreds of times of companies looking at the entire contact center as a cost center. And I think we know better that, that it really should be looked at more as a revenue center, but one of the things I was worried about when AI came onto the scene and virtual agents came onto the scene was that there would be some companies that would immediately look at it as a cost savings initiative. Hey, let’s get rid of all the human agents and just have the computers do it, or the robots do it. So this is the quote that I really loved from his book. He said, “[o]nce you recognize that virtual agents, aren’t primarily about squeezing out costs, you can see the big picture, how they position your service operation to generate a better experience, build loyalty and focus humans on what humans do best, which is to solve complicated problems and make emotional connections.”

Joey Coleman (22:07):
Uh, so well said, Dan! Especially that part about emotional connections. Cause I do agree that’s the piece of the puzzle that we’re going to struggle with with AI. Can we teach AI empathy? You know, it’s funny. My favorite passage actually comes directly after yours in the book in chapter three. Now this may be a first ladies and gentlemen that, you know, Dan and my favorite passage bump up against each other, but P.V. notes that there are seven ways virtual agents improve customer service. Here they are: (1) Consistency. It gives the same right answer every time. (2) Uptime. Making service available 24/7. (3) Capacity. You can scale up to serve customers quickly, even during peak service periods. (4) Speed – reduce time spent waiting for a human agent. (5) Productivity – help human agents deliver smarter and better service. (6) Intelligence – generate new insights by analyzing aggregated service interactions, and (7) Channel Independence. Consumers can use voice or text chat and get the same answer from the same bot.

Dan Gingiss (23:21):
Now I admit, a couple of those were new to me and I thought that was a very interesting passage as well because of that list. The one that really stuck out to me was number five, which is productivity, because I think it is so cool to imagine an agent sitting next to, you know, I always think of like IBM’s Watson, right? It went on Jeopardy and beat all the human contestants, right? Because it knows everything. And so I always imagined this agent, this human agent sitting next to a supercomputer that knows the answer to every question that the customer could possibly ask. And it knows everything about that customer because it has entire order history and addresses and phone numbers and children’s names and all this sort of stuff everything’s there. It makes that agent so much smarter. And as, as P.V.vVery well said in the, in the quote that I shared, it allows the human agent to do what they’re good at that I don’t think computers are ever going to be good at, which is to be human, right? Because that is still part of the customer service experience that we want. And so I, I love that concept. And to me, the companies that figure out how to use this technology to make better agents, instead of trying to replace their agents. I think those are the ones that are going to win. Did any of them stick out to you?

Joey Coleman (24:45):
You know, they did. I liked that one, Dan, but I also liked ironically enough, the next one in the list. Number six intelligence…

Dan Gingiss (24:51):
He’s always a step behind ladies and gentlemen.

Joey Coleman (24:54):
It’s story of my life. Just trying to keep up with Dan Gingiss ladies and gentlemen. Well, if we’re not seeking ways to gather the data from our customers, which a lot of businesses are doing, but then turn it into intelligent insights – not just data collection for data collection sake, but rather to drive intelligent insights – we’re missing a huge opportunity to mine, that data, to find the golden customer experience. I really think there’s a tremendous opportunity to incorporate more intelligence into businesses. And I think AI is going to make that a lot easier to do, to do it at scale, to do it more in more cost effective ways and to do it much, much faster.

Dan Gingiss (25:38):
I couldn’t agree more with you, Joey. I think that is also, uh, a great example and I mean, all seven of them are cool. And like I said, got me thinking, but I think we nailed the two if I say so myself. So let’s hear from the age of intent author, P.V. Kannan and let’s have him read his favorite passage.

P.V. Kannan (26:00):
Here’s the question: are you ready for virtual agents? Every company that is considering virtual agents does so far, for two reasons, it provides a better customer experience and it saves money. They’ll make the case effectively. He must generally prove improvements on both fronts, which you emphasize will depend on what’s going on strategically at your company. But regardless of which facet of the decision you focus on you won’t succeed unless you’ve laid the groundwork as a major telecommunications company discovered there are four types of questions you should ask to get that groundwork ready. The first one is economic. Where will you save or money from automating your customer facing processes? The second one is technical. What work will be required to get your technology infrastructure ready to connect to intelligent chatbots? The third one is political. What must you do to win our key executives in the company? And the last one is cultural. What will it take for your company to become comfortable with allowing customers to interact with virtual agents as well as humans to get your company ready for virtual agents, you’ll need to face and work through all four of these challenges.

Dan Gingiss (27:20):
So folks, P.V. Is asking all the right questions and he helps to answer them in the Age of Intent using artificial intelligence to deliver a superior customer experience. I suggest you go out, get the book and read it and learn how you can use this evolving technology to improve the customer experience at your business.

[PARTNERSHIP WITH AVTEX][The Dream Job – Game Show Hosts for Experience Points]
Joey Coleman (27:52):
Dan, this season has been all about games in many ways. Let’s play a little game. You and I, I’m going to name a famous game show you tell me who you think the host was, or maybe you know who the host was. We’ll start off easy though. Wheel of Fortune?

Dan Gingiss (28:07):
Pat Sayjack.

Joey Coleman (28:09):
That’s an easy one. Jeopardy?

Dan Gingiss (28:10):
Aww, rest in peace, Alex Trebek. I actually got to interview him in college. It was amazing.

Joey Coleman (28:16):
So nice. So nice. Yes. Very well known host. Let’s make it a little more difficult. What about Joker’s Wild?

Dan Gingiss (28:21):
One of my favorite game shows as a kid, Jack Barry.

Joey Coleman (28:26):
Wow, nice. I liked Tic-Tac-Toe…

Dan Gingiss (28:29):
And Wink Martindale of course.

Joey Coleman (28:31):
Very nice Price Is Right?

Dan Gingiss (28:33):
Who could forget Bob Barker and yeah, I know there’s a comedian that does it now, but nobody will ever be Bob Barker..H

Joey Coleman (28:40):
Even though after Happy Gilmore, my, my view of Bob Barker kind of changed a little, but that’s okay. What about Card Sharks? We’re going to start bringing out some difficult ones.

Dan Gingiss (28:49):
Uh, I think that was Bob Eubanks.

Dan Gingiss (28:51):
Impressive, uh, $100,000 Dollar Pyramid?

Dan Gingiss (28:54):
Uh, Dick Clark and I think and, uh, pre New Year’s Eve Dick Clark, if I’m…

Joey Coleman (28:59):
Yes, yes. Definitely a classic. What about the Dating Game?

Dan Gingiss (29:03):
Oh, that was Chuck Woolery.

Joey Coleman (29:06):
Who, in many ways, had the best name in game show hosts. How about Family Feud?

Dan Gingiss (29:11):
Also a favorite. I mean, you had to love the, uh, completely un-pc Richard Dawson, but then even, uh, you know, today Steve Harvey hosts it and, and he does, he’s hilarious too.

Joey Coleman (29:25):
Yeah, exactly. Here’s a favorite of mine? How about Who Wants to be a Millionaire?

Dan Gingiss (29:29):
Uh, another, another RIP – Regis Philbin. Uh, one of the best!

Dan Gingiss (29:33):
Yeah, very big Notre Dame fan. I had the chance to meet Regis a number of times. Great. Great. I mean the reality here is, we’ve just revealed something that I’ve known about you for years, Dan, that maybe our listeners didn’t and that’s, if you could have grown up to be anything in the world, other than shortstop for the Chicago Cubs, I think it might’ve been a game show host.

Dan Gingiss (29:57):
Second base, but yeah, you’re right. You’re absolutely right. And my kids will tell you, even if we, if we sorta follow game shows into, you know, what has become, I think a reality TV, I’ve had a man crush on Jeff Probst for a long time and survivor. I’ve never missed an episode. So yeah, I’ve always wanted to be a game show host, which is why I was so excited when Avtex asked us to host their new game show called Experience Points. Now, Experience Points is the most fun that you can have talking about customer experience. Now we have a lot of fun here, absolutely, but you know, we got to put our serious hats on every once in a while so that we…

Joey Coleman (30:40):
We try to act professional!

Dan Gingiss (30:42):
But this is so much fun. We have new episodes each week. We have celebrity contestants that play three different games over a three-week period. And so CX thought leaders actually get to earn cash for their favorite charity as the answer CX questions and share their expertise on how to fuel exceptional experiences for customers. So join your newly-minted game show hosts, Joey Coleman.

Joey Coleman (31:07):
and Dan Gingiss.

Dan Gingiss (31:09):
for experience points brought to you by Avtex your end-to-end CX technology and consulting partner.

Joey Coleman (31:17):
You can find Experience Ppoints at www.experiencepointsgame.com that’s www.ExperiencePointsGame.com or on YouTube at the Avtex channel or on your favorite podcast app, just search Avtex Experience Points. That’s A- V-T-E-X, Avtex Experience Points, and you too can be part of the Experience Points Game Show experience.

[SEGMENT INTRO – CX PRESS]
Joey Coleman (31:46):
There are so many great customer experience articles to read, but who has the time?! We summarize them and offer clear takeaways you can implement starting tomorrow. Enjoy this segment of CX Press, where we read the articles, so you don’t need to!

[CX PRESS][Ecommerce Marketing Study of 1,000 Consumers Shows Drastic Shift]
Dan Gingiss (32:05):
In this week’s CX Press, we’re going to look at a new study by Ignite Visibility, a digital marketing agency based in San Diego, California. Now they surveyed a thousand customers about their holiday shopping habits to find out how they expect to shop this season. So from the e-commerce marketing study, by Ignite Visibility, here are some of their key findings. (1) Most consumers will be shopping and buying on a desktop compared to mobile. That’s 50% to only 15% – a third of customers said both.

Joey Coleman (32:45):
I resonated with this one totally. I know it makes me sound old and anybody who’s a regular listener knows I am the least tech savvy of the two hosts here to experience this. But I’m all about the desktop. When it comes time to shopping and buying, I just find it easier to search, easier to have multiple windows open, easier to do a lot of things. So that one did not surprise me. I was super excited about that.

Dan Gingiss (33:08):
And listeners may also know that I prefer the desktop too, except I am the PC guy. And Joey is the Mac guy. So feel free to write in or call and tell us what you are.

Joey Coleman (33:18):
Yeah, exactly. I love it. I love it. And full disclosure, I’m probably in the category of both. I have purchased some things on mobile. Random question, Dan, what’s the most expensive thing you’ve ever purchased on mobile?

Dan Gingiss (33:30):
Wow.

Joey Coleman (33:31):
Throwing him a little bit of a curve ball here, ladies and gentlemen. I’m not sure… I probably I’ve, I definitely have bought a couple of my pinball machines on eBay. And I mean, that could have been a mobile purchase.

Dan Gingiss (33:43):
Nice. I once had to buy a rather expensive plane ticket – that’s a story for another episode – that was about a, just under $2,000 plane ticket on my phone. That was, I think the most I ever spent on it, but it was like a same day or same day ticket. And it was crazy. But long story short mobile is the future. Just not quite yet. Okay. Number two, consumers were equally open to clicking on an ad in Google or an organic listing in Google for purchasing a product. This is significant as studies in the past have shown strong favoritism for organic listings. So people are getting more comfortable with clicking on those ads, even though it says “ad” right next to it.

Dan Gingiss (34:22):
Yeah. And a lot of people know that. I mean, you, you should be able to tell the difference between the ads and the organic listings. And a lot of people will just breeze right over the ads to get to what they know is kind of Google’s recommendation. But it does look like, and this could be the language in the ads that the people are starting to at least equal that out.

Joey Coleman (34:42):
Well, and I’ll be honest, I like to actually, if I like the brand, I click on their organic listing. And if I don’t like the brand, that I’m like disgruntled that I have to buy there, I click on the ads. Exactly. I’m a little weird that way. I love it. All right. Number three 86%. That’s 86% of consumers need to see an ad two times or more before buying and 31% need to see it six times or more before buying. Now, this resonated with me because as a marketer you’re told over and over again, that people have to see your message more than once in order to respond. But man, six times it just feels like you’re bothering them, but it works.

Joey Coleman (35:26):
It is bothering them. But I will say as somebody who, as you know, really the only social media app I spend time with is Facebook. Maybe this is why I keep getting fed the same ads over and over and over again in Facebook. And I’ll tell ya, I purchased three things. This holiday season that I would not have known about had I not been fed ads in Facebook. So thanks Facebook for listening to me talk and then serving up ads that are about,

Dan Gingiss (35:53):
They know you better than you do.

Joey Coleman (35:54):
They know me better than I know myself. Keep on liking it. All right. Number four, I thought this was an interesting one. And it segues to something we’ve talked about before in the past 55% of people will be shopping more on Amazon this year versus last year. But interestingly enough, that’s kind of not a surprise. We know Amazon’s eating the world is getting bigger and bigger, but what that means is that 45% of respondents actually plan to use Amazon less. Now this is in line with recent trends, such as a rise in consumers, wanting to support small businesses and looking for direct to consumer experiences, three quarters of shoppers say, they’re not afraid to go into stores despite the COVID 19 pandemic. It’s just the other quarter of shoppers who are saying, you know what, everything’s online this year. So yeah, lots of shifting behaviors in 2020 when it comes to online purchases.

Dan Gingiss (36:46):
Yeah, I thought this was really interesting. I mean, there are days where I feel like I could buy absolutely everything I ever needed on Amazon and yet I don’t. And I do think that, uh, that people want to support their local businesses. Even the large chains that are local, they want to support them because heck a large chain is a whole lot better than an empty strip mall. Right? So it’s, uh, it, you know, we do want these stores to stay in our, in our neighborhoods and communities. And so we definitely want to support them as well. And I believe you can be both. I mean, I love Amazon and I shop elsewhere as well.

Joey Coleman (37:19):
A hundred percent. I don’t think you necessarily need to be. I’m a hundred percent old Amazon all day long, or I’m anti Amazon. There’s a giant gray area in the middle. I also think when it comes to shopping in your local community, yes, you may be shopping in a chain store, but the employees that work there live in your town, they live in your neighborhood. So you, you are putting money back into your community based on the wages that those employees are making from working there. So definitely not a clear line here, but some interesting developing trends.

Dan Gingiss (37:52):
Oh, for sure not to mention the taxes that are collected by the company. Number five, customers are shopping and purchasing products much earlier this year. And despite the current economic climate, more than half of consumers plan to spend the same or more this year compared to last year. So folks, basically that means by the time you’re listening to this podcast, you’re already behind the ball and shopping cause most of your friends and family have already got their holiday shopping done.

Joey Coleman (38:21):
So true. I will say this, which I, a mom, hopefully you don’t mind me sharing this story. I was talking to my mom actually earlier today and she said she has never been further ahead in her Christmas shopping then she is this year. And I think part of the reason for that is so many people are home and they’re looking forward to the holidays, even if it’s going to be a socially distance, not hanging out with family holiday, that they’re actually putting more thought and energy into it and coming to the table with their shopping earlier. So it’s playing out that way in the Coleman household for sure. And I imagine it might’ve played out that way in your households to.

Dan Gingiss (39:01):
Indeed. And number six, takeaway from the study was the most important deciding factors in an Amazon purchase are the number of stars and positive reviews followed by delivery time. And I think that is certainly makes sense to me. I mean, I check the reviews of every product and, uh, and not just the stars. I actually like to go and read the reviews of both positive and negative reviews, but it is amazing how much impact that now has in the purchasing decision.

Joey Coleman (39:33):
It really is, especially when you think back to pre-Amazon, or even just five, ten years ago on Amazon, the reviews didn’t play as big a role as they do today. It’s like with each passing year, they play a bigger and bigger role. And so the review strategy for your business is important, but it’s also important for us as consumers. So I totally get it. I mean, I think some key takeaways from this study, Amazon is still the e-commerce powerhouse, but there is plenty of room for other competitors. I mean, Shopify is coming along and making e-commerce solutions for small and medium-sized businesses much easier to use. You don’t have to try to be Amazon. They are who they are and they’re the best at what they do for a reason. You can just be you and create a more personal experience, which is something that Amazon will always struggle to do.

Dan Gingiss (40:27):
Agreed. And especially if you have a bricks and mortar store, because that’s the one thing that, uh, other than the, some of the small stores that we’ve referred to in past episodes, they don’t really have that physical presence that a, that a local store does. Pay attention to how the pandemic affects shopping behaviors this holiday season. because I definitely think that some of those trends are likely to follow in 2021 and as always make things simple and convenient for your customers and they will keep coming back. Happy holidays to all of you, our listeners. We so appreciate you enjoy the season, stay healthy and safe!

[SHOW OUTRO]
Joey Coleman (41:15):
Wow. Thanks for joining us for another episode of Experience This!

Dan Gingiss (41:19):
We know there are tons of podcasts to listen to, magazines and books to read, reality TV to watch. We don’t take for granted that you’ve decided to spend some quality time listening to the two of us.

Joey Coleman (41:28):
We hope you enjoyed our discussions, and if you do, we’d love to hear about it. Come on over to ExperienceThis Show.com and let us know what segments you enjoyed, what new segments you’d like to hear. This show is all about experience and we want you to be part of the Experience This! Show.

Dan Gingiss (41:46):
Thanks again for your time and we’ll see you next week for more…

Joey Coleman (41:50):
Experience.

Dan Gingiss (41:50):
This!

Episode 116 – The Sonic Brand of Your Experience

Join us as we discuss using handwritten notes to create connection, refreshing the sound of your brand, and trying to figure out what happened next when you only know the first half of the story.

Connections, Cues, and Cameras – Oh My!

[CX Press] If You Can’t Touch, Use a Personalized Touchpoint

Things We Mentioned in This Segment:

On This Delta Flight, the Crew Did Something to Remind All of Us of the Importance of Creating Personal Connections – by Jason Aten on Inc.com
• Delta Airlines
• LaGuardia Airport (LGA)

[Dissecting the Experience] Evolving a Sonic Brand

Things We Mentioned in This Segment:

NBC Chimes
• Sports Center Intro
• Disney Intro
• THX Surround Sound Test
BYU’s a cappela group “Vocal Point” sings the THX Sound Cue
• Netflix “Ta-Dum”
• Netflix’s New Cinematic “Ta-Dum” Sound Cue – by Hans Zimmer
• Hans Zimmer

[Crossover Segment] Experience Points – What Happened with Rohit Bhargava

Things We Mentioned in This Segment:

• Experience Points – presented by Avtex
• Rohit Bhargava – innovation and marketing expert, founder of the Non-Obvious Company, and Wall Street Journal best selling author of six business books
• What Happened? – Celebrity Guest Rohit Bhargava – Experience Points
• Fake or Fact?! – Celebrity Guest Rohit Bhargava – Experience Points
• Think Fast! – Celebrity Guest Rohit Bhargava – Experience Points

Host Contact Information

Email Dan: Dan@dangingiss.com

Tweet Dan Gingiss: @DGingiss

Email Joey: JoeyC@JoeyColeman.com

DanGingiss.com

JoeyColeman.com

Subscribe to Experience This on Apple Podcasts

Episode Transcript

Download an unedited transcript of Episode 116 here or read it below:

[SHOW INTRO]
Dan Gingiss (00:05):
Welcome to Experience This!

Joey Coleman (00:08):
Where you’ll find inspiring examples of customer experience, great stories of customer service, and tips on how to make your customers love you even more.

New Speaker (00:17):
Always upbeat and definitely entertaining customer attention, expert, Joey Coleman,

Joey Coleman (00:23):
and social media expert, Dan Gingiss, serve as your hosts for a weekly dose of positive customer experience.

New Speaker (00:30):
So hold on to your headphones… It’s time to Experience This!

[EPISODE 116 INTRO]
Joey Coleman (00:39):
Get ready, for another episode of the Experience This Show!

Dan Gingiss (00:44):
Join us as we discuss: using handwritten notes to create connection, refreshing the sound of your brand, and trying to figure out what happened next, when you only know the first half of the story!

Joey Coleman (00:57):
Connections, cues and cameras. Oh, my!

[SEGMENT INTRO – CX PRESS]
Joey Coleman (01:05):
There are so many great customer experience articles to read, but who has the time! We summarize them and offer clear takeaways you can implement starting tomorrow. Enjoy this segment of CX Press, where we read the articles, so you don’t need to!

[CX PRESS][If You Can’t Touch, Use a Personalized Touchpoint]
Joey Coleman (01:23):
Alright Dan, I have a confession to make…

Dan Gingiss (01:25):
Oh boy, I’m not entirely sure I’m qualified to hear this, but go ahead.

Joey Coleman (01:30):
All right – here’s my confession. It’s been 244 days, nine hours, 11 minutes and 19 – wait, make that 20 seconds – since the last time I was on an airplane!

Dan Gingiss (01:47):
It’s been that long?! That’s a long time Joey!

Joey Coleman (01:52):
It hurts. It hurts…

Dan Gingiss (01:52):
For guys that are used to being on an airplane, you know, sometimes, uh, several times a week, uh, back and forth, it, it really is – it’s a big part of our lives that has just completely disappeared.

Joey Coleman (02:06):
Vanished in 2019, I flew over 160,000 miles on Delta and I, yeah, it’s just it’s I miss it. I miss it. And while I don’t miss all aspects of flying, there are definitely some aspects that I do miss. And as our Experience This listeners know when I fly, as I mentioned earlier, you’ll find me flying Delta,

Dan Gingiss (02:29):
But I do think it’s been 244 days, nine hours, 11 minutes and 20 seconds since you’ve mentioned Delta on this podcast as well!

Joey Coleman (02:37):
It might be, it’s been awhile. It’s been awhile, but, um, that is probably why. And fans know that I’m a huge fan of Delta. That is probably why three people, including my amazing wife Berit, loyal Experience This show listener, Nick Hemmert, and Barry Glassman advisor to the wealthy around the world, sent me a link to the CX Press article. We’re going to talk about today within an hour of it being published. Like, you know, that my brand has been associated with Delta when there is a story that is published and within an hour of it going live, I get it from three completely different people. So let’s talk about the article. You can find a link to this article, which was written by Jason Aten, in the show notes that experienced this show.com or directly on inc com. And the article is titled, “On this Delta flight the crew did something to remind all of us of the importance of creating personal connections.” And this article details, a remarkable experience that Jason had while flying on a Delta flight to New York city and specifically to LaGuardia airport,

Dan Gingiss (03:45):
Because let’s face it folks, you aren’t going to have a great experience at LaGuardia airport!

Joey Coleman (03:51):
Oh, our poor friends at LaGuardia – that hurt!

Dan Gingiss (03:56):
It’s my least favorite airport on the planet. I’m sorry. I’m sorry guys in New York. I know, but no, I just it’s.

Joey Coleman (04:04):
We, we, we all have a challenging airport – Dan’s is LaGuardia. Well, anyway, as the plane was taxing to the gate, after landing a flight attendant came around and delivered handwritten notes to the passengers. Now the note which Jason included a picture of in his article, and again, we’ll link to in our show notes, read as follows:

Joey Coleman (04:26):
“Mr. Jason Aten – I wanted to take a moment to say thank you for flying with us today. Thank you also for being a Silver Medallion with us, it truly is passengers like you that make my job not only great, but also make Delta the airline that it is today. Thank you so very much for your continued loyalty, all my best and safe travels, Gabby bragger.

Dan Gingiss (04:50):
Well, I think this is awesome, but I hate to say my first reaction is this was easy to do because there were probably only four people on the plane!

Joey Coleman (05:00):
Now I will say the article kind of alludes to it. Wasn’t a super heavy packed flight, right? That were less people. But I think that proves the point. If the, if you’re dealing as most businesses are right now in this COVID era with even less customers than you have in the past, are you upping your game? Are you upping the experience? I mean, so many businesses are looking for ways to stand out in the marketplace, to connect with their customers, to get more business out of the clients that they do have. And this is a fantastic example of something that every business can do. It’s low cost, but it’s high ROI. It’s a small commitment of time, but it delivers longterm value. It’s such an easy thing to do, but here’s the reality. So many people who have found the time to listen to this episode of the experience, this podcast will not find the time or rather schedule the time to sit down and write. Thank you note to a customer. And I don’t say that to be critical of our listeners. I say, that’s how low hanging this fruit is and available for you friends. Like all you got to do is write a thank you note.

Dan Gingiss (06:09):
Yeah, I definitely agree. And it is a much under-utilized practice, much like recognizing birthdays, which we’ve talked about before. And I know in a previous episode we talked about one of my favorite brands called PunkPost, which is a terrific way to send thank you notes. If like me, you don’t have all the pretty stationary sitting around and you don’t feel like actually writing it yourself. PunkPost will do it for you. But I definitely think that is a amazing thing to do. And all jokes aside about how many people were on the plane. It is a fantastic practice. And I think it was clearly meaningful to this guy. I’m guessing that the flight attendant didn’t know that he wrote for inc. And we’ve mentioned many times before that we don’t always know if our customers have podcasts or write for anchor Forbes or have their own blogs or have social media followings, but that doesn’t really matter. Ultimately, what we want is for those customers to tell a friend, to tell a colleague, to tell a family member that this happened to them on Delta or on whatever company with whatever company you’re dealing with. And that becomes the elusive word of mouth marketing that, you know, I was a marketer for 20 years, this is the thing all marketers are trying to get is word of mouth marketing. And it comes down not to a funny advertisement or something like that, but something as simple as writing a thank you note.

Joey Coleman (07:37):
So true Dan, and something that folks who don’t regularly fly Delta may not know. There’s that reference in the note. Thank you for being a Silver Medallion, Silver Medallion in the Delta flight loyalty world means you fly 25,000 miles a year. So it’s actually their lowest threshold for being a recognized medallion or kind of loyalty member. So if, if this was going to somebody who flew a hundred thousand miles a year, you could kind of say, Oh, well of course this is their top customer. I’m not saying that Jason, isn’t a great customer and a loyal customer. But what I love about this is it’s a way to connect with people who maybe someday will be at the next level of being a customer. And you can lay a foundation with these personal touch interactions that kind of continue the conversation going forward.

Dan Gingiss (08:29):
So in other words, those Silver Medallions are the people that you diamond people look no, look down on?!

Joey Coleman (08:35):
No, no, no brother, every year I’ve got to work my way through silver, to gold, to platinum and finally land in diamond. Uh, so I to go through silver at the beginning of the year, I tried to go through it quickly. So I get to the next levels, but yeah, it’s all part of it. And I think so often people will ask whether it’s, you know, when I’m doing a virtual keynote or consulting with a client, they’ll say, well, Joey, is it okay if we treat different levels of our customers in different ways? Can we put more praise and more interesting things and more touch points onto our highest paying or our most profitable or most loyal customers? And I always say, yes, you absolutely can. As long as that doesn’t mean you have a pathetic experience for the people who haven’t reached that level.

Dan Gingiss (09:19):
Sure. The base, the base level still has to be good for you to do.

Joey Coleman (09:22):
Exactly. Exactly. So I don’t mind extra gilding for the people who are your most loyal or your most profitable or whatever categorization you might want to give them, but you gotta deliver something to everyone. And as I understand from the story and the article, doesn’t clearly detail this, but it’s written in a way that it makes me believe that everyone on the plane got a handwritten note. And stop and think about those long flights, where, and I say, this respectfully everybody’s been served, everybody’s gotten their food, their snack, their drinks, they’re watching their movie, they’re working on their laptop. They’re doing whatever they’re doing. And I’m describing this in detail because it’s been so long since most of us have been on a flight. I want you to remember what it was like lots of times the flight attendants disappear for 20 minutes, 30 minutes an hour on these long haul flights or they’re there, but it’s kind of getting missed during that downtime. Yes, they could be playing candy crush on their phone, or they could be writing a handwritten note. And this flight attendant happened to take the time to write the handwritten note, which really stood out and led to the article.

Dan Gingiss (10:20):
And look, I think for people listening, this is probably the most important time for you to do this because if you’re not an airline, you’re probably not in front of your customers right now. And, and they’re not in front of you even if they want to be. And so it’s a great time for you to reach out to people, to remind them that you appreciate them when times are down, when the chips are down and when times are good. And these are the customers that are continuing to purchase your products and service even during a pandemic. And I think they deserve special attention or recognition for their continued patronage, even when it might be a little tough.

Joey Coleman (11:01):
100%. I mean, if you can’t have personal touch interactions because we’re not doing actual touching at least have a cool touch point like this. And I think the handwritten thank you. Note is an no-brainer. I mean, when it comes to the investment that it takes you to write a handwritten, thank you note, compared to the impact that has on your relationship with the recipient. I actually can’t think of a single customer touchpoint or experience enhancement that will have a greater return on investment or better outcome for you. I mean, thank you. Notes are increasingly rare in our, on the go transactional. We don’t teach cursive anymore digital world, right? They offer a physical memento of a personal relationship with someone that is all too often relegated to a fleeting text message or an archived, or God forbid even deleted email message. It requires less than minutes of your time, but people keep notes like this around for months or even years. I mean, let me ask this question of you, Dan and everybody who’s listening at home. You can play along too. Do you have in your house a thank you note that somebody wrote to you? Yes or no?

Dan Gingiss (12:09):
I do. Yes.

Joey Coleman (12:10):
Yes. Now let me ask this question, is that, thank you note older than three months old?

Dan Gingiss (12:15):
Yes.

Joey Coleman (12:16):
Yes! So here’s the fascinating thing. You still have the note, you remember who it was from? You’ve read it at least once, if not more. And you kept it.

Speaker 3 (12:26):
Yeah.

Joey Coleman (12:28):
This is a hundred percent unscripted! Tell us about it.

Dan Gingiss (12:30):
Yeah. I have two of them hung up in my office because they inspire me and I read them all the time.

Joey Coleman (12:37):
I love it. I love it. So here’s the thing. We as human beings in, since the beginning of time, but particularly in the middle of this pandemic, we are dying for physical proof that we matter. We are dying for evidence that we have created a connection with someone that we have served, someone that they appreciate our presence on the planet. And a thank you note is a such an easy way to let them know that and people will keep these and they will look back on them and they will remember you. And they will think fondly of you and folks, it’s like, you can do this for less than a $1.50 per customer, like easy for less than a $1.50 per customer. And I’m counting postage, and the note, and the envelope, all in… Everybody should be doing this.

Dan Gingiss (13:21):
So as Jason Apley notes in the article, quote, “[e]very time you interact with a customer, you have an opportunity to reinforce your values and build the relationship. At a time when personal connections are more than a bit strained, every effort you make to reach out to your customers or anyone for that matter is a big deal.”

Joey Coleman (13:41):
Absolutely. So friends, we have a challenge for you. Having recently celebrated Thanksgiving here in the United States and in Canada, and with a nod of appreciation to our listeners outside of the United States and Canada, all of you listening around the world. Thanks so much for your support. Here’s the challenge. Pick one of your customers. And if you’re one of those overachievers, go ahead and pick three, but don’t pick more than three and write them a handwritten note, a physical handwritten note with your hand or a pen, thanking them for sticking with you through 2020, thanking them for their continued patronage. Let them know how excited you are to be serving them now and to continue serving them into the new year and beyond. Write the note and see what happens.

[SEGMENT INTRO – DISSECTING THE EXPERIENCE]
Joey Coleman (14:29):
Sometimes a remarkable experience deserves deeper investigation. We dive into the nitty gritty of customer interactions and dissect how, and why, they happen. Join us while we’re Dissecting the Experience.

[DISSECTING THE EXPERIENCE][Evolving a Sonic Brand]
Joey Coleman (14:47):
Dan, I know you are a huge fan of game shows.

Dan Gingiss (14:52):
I always have been. And I assume we’re going to talk about our new game show, Experience Points?

Joey Coleman (14:59):
Uh, not in this segment. We’re actually going to talk about Experience Points in the next segment, Dan, but for now, I want to give you a chance to play the Experience This version of a little game called, “Name That Tune!”

Dan Gingiss (15:12):
Okay. In all seriousness, and this is unrehearsed, that was one of my favorite game shows. And of all the game shows that have come back that have been resurrected over the years. I cannot figure out why Name That Tune has never come back?

Joey Coleman (15:24):
I know, I know it’s it’s so, especially with the advent of so many more people listening, I mean, let’s, let’s take it back from like the Walkman to the iPod, to Tik TOK today. Like music is such a bigger part of everyone’s life today in many ways than it was even 20 years ago. I agree with you Name That Tune would be an obvious, obvious play, but what I decided, cause I knew and the folks, this is completely unrehearsed. Dan has no idea where this is going because I know you’re a big fan of game shows. And there was a interesting little story. I came across that I wanted to share. I wanted to turn it into a game. So what I’m going to do is much like name that tune. I’m going to play a little audio clip and Dan, you get to guess where it comes from. All right. So here is your…

Dan Gingiss (16:10):
Put me on the spot.

Joey Coleman (16:13):
Here’s your first one.

Dan Gingiss (16:18):
Okay. Not only do I know that that’s NBC, but you know, it was really weird. Joey. I had a sense that that was the first one you were going to show me as soon as you said, here’s the first one. I’m like, it’s going to be done. And uh, I don’t know.

Joey Coleman (16:34):
I love it. It is a very, very famous sound cue. You did a great job of getting it. I love it.

Dan Gingiss (16:42):
Whew, I didn’t miss them all. So now I can relax a little bit.

Joey Coleman (16:45):
Exactly. You can breathe. These are, you got the first one right now. I got to tell you, Dan, of all the sound cues in the game. No pressure. This is the one I think you have the highest likelihood of getting, right? So you already got NBC, right? So you’re doing well. But this one, I really think there is a strong possibility. You’re going to get it right. All right. On your marks. Get set. Go.

Dan Gingiss (17:12):
Yes, definitely! ESPN Sports Center!

Joey Coleman (17:16):
Yes. Sports Center. You are correct. Dan Gingiss ladies and gentlemen to, for, to get it done. He knows. He knows his points. We’re not going for charity just yet. I’m not making a donation. Maybe if you get all five, I’ll do something special for you, Dan. All right. Now this one may be not quite as familiar to you, but I know will be familiar to a lot of our listeners.

Dan Gingiss (17:43):
You’re the dummy Dan? Everyone else will know it.

Joey Coleman (17:45):
No, no. I think you’ll know this one too. There you go. This, this, one’s got a little bit of a buildup. All right, that’s plenty.

Dan Gingiss (18:08):
Yeah. At the beginning I was like, what the heck is that?

Joey Coleman (18:11):
It’s the buildup…

Dan Gingiss (18:11):
I’m going to go with Walt Disney or Disney?

Joey Coleman (18:14):
You are correct. That is the opening theme to all Walt Disney movies. All right. We’ve got another one for you. Dan. Here you go again. This one’s got a little bit of a buildup.

Joey Coleman (18:53):
So it’s been awhile, I imagine. But do you remember where you heard that one?

Dan Gingiss (18:57):
I believe that is, I hope I get the brand right, but is that the Dolby sound surround sound?

Joey Coleman (19:02):
So close? It is THX. You are right. It is okay. It is the sound that they play at the beginning. When you’re at a movie theater.

Dan Gingiss (19:10):
Actually you’ll appreciate this, I once heard an acapella group do that and it was unbelievable because it actually heard in like five different sounds at the same time. And it came out amazingly well saving and I love it.

Joey Coleman (19:25):
We’ll see. We’ll see if we can track that down and put it in the show notes had experienced this show.com. All right. Now this is the last one. Dan, here’s the last sound cue for you? And I will tell you this one in advance. It’s actually quite short. All right. What do you think, Dan?

Dan Gingiss (19:43):
Yeah, I hear this one. I don’t know, like five times a week. I, I think it’s Netflix.

Joey Coleman (19:49):
Yes, sir. You are correct. Ladies and gentlemen, Dan Gingiss game show host-wanna-be extraodinairre, his favorite game show was Named That Tune and you proved it today with this segment, Dan, you got all of them, right? I love it. Now I got to tell you that last sound cue is pretty interesting because millions of people around the world are familiar with the tandem. You can’t log into Netflix, queue up some cartoons for the kids, or sit down to binge, watch a series without hearing that opening sound cue. Now as observed by Netflix product, vice president, Todd Yellin, quote, it’s become the gold standard for sonic brands. It’s immediately recognizable and everyone knows that it means Netflix.

Dan Gingiss (20:40):
Well, I feel like we could do a whole segment on what makes a sonic brand, which is kind of a cool term I haven’t heard before. But what I think is so interesting about this is we’ve touched on multiple different senses in our previous episodes, right? We earlier this season, we talked about the bookstore that is completely dark. And you talked about a restaurant that you went to in the dark and we’ve, uh, w last season we interviewed somebody that works for, uh, a company that produces scents, very memorable scents in hotels and, and other places and

Joey Coleman (21:16):
And we’ve talked about bespoke touch, you know, experiences like, you know, velvet touch, magnetic enclosures on packages and velvet paper for brochures. Yeah. We’ve talked a lot about different ways that senses can be incorporated into the customer experience.

Dan Gingiss (21:31):
Absolutely. And sound, for certain businesses, is absolutely one of those things.

Joey Coleman (21:36):
Absolutely. Now, while sound cues in general are fascinating. Here’s where the Netflix “ta-dum” ran into some challenges. Now, Netflix has grown beyond mailing DVDs to your house, right? They then went to streaming movies to your home, to funding their own movies for theatrical releases. And since 2018, they’ve been releasing original films that they produced and funded in the cinemas. And what happened is Netflix felt that the “ta-dum” sound felt a little too rushed for the cinematic setting.

Dan Gingiss (22:11):
Ooh, it sounds like they needed a little Hollywood boost!

Joey Coleman (22:15):
Exactly! And so according to the fine folks@classicfm.com quote, they needed a movie mood, a symphonic version of the sound to set people up for a longer experience. So what did they do? They hired Hans Zimmer. Some of our listeners may not know Hans Zimmer by name, but I guarantee you’re familiar with the sounds he’s created over the years, including the scores for 150 blockbuster movies like Inception, the entire Pirates of The Caribbean series, Gladiator, the Dark Knight trilogy, and the Lion King. So Zimmer worked to put together an epic new version of “ta-dum”, which I’d love to share with all of you now…

Joey Coleman (23:02):
So it still has the nice “ta-dum” at the end, but it’s a lot more substantial than what we heard.

Dan Gingiss (23:23):
Yeah. It’s interesting. And I I’d be very fascinated to see whether people recognize it as an enhancement to “ta-dum,” or whether they think of it as something completely different. I don’t know. I mean, listening to it, I’m not sure that I can say.

Joey Coleman (23:41):
Yeah, I’m not sure either. And again, we’ll have to see what it’s like in the movie theater when hopefully we can get back to movie theaters soon, but the reality is it’s 16 seconds long. It went from being a two to three seconds long to 16 seconds. I personally think it gives a totally new feel and, you know, the “ta-dum” sound has become really iconic in a short amount of time. And I love that Netflix went to the extra level of saying, you know what, in a theater setting, if we just pop up the Netflix logo and say, we want something a little more, we want to separate the fact that this is Netflix in the cinema, as opposed to Netflix in your home.

Dan Gingiss (24:23):
Yeah. And I think that’s the real reason for doing it is that this is a different product, frankly, that they’re putting out. And ultimately I’m assuming the cinema movies will end up on the streaming services as well. But I think that’s the goal is to differentiate it. And I think that, you know, even that Sports Center theme song that you’ve, uh, that you played has changed over the years and has evolved over the years. And I think that just like we look at our logos, and our colors, and our brand palette, and all that sort of thing, if you have a sound associated with your brand, it’s definitely something that you ultimately want to refresh at some point, you know, we’ve seen, if we stick with movies, you know, you see a company called 20th century Fox that had to grapple with, you know, whether they had to change their name as we entered the 21st century. And, uh, and you, and, and yet sometimes you see throwback. So Disney often leads with that, you know, the old 19, what is the twenties? And so I think you can go both ways. You, you can get that vintage, look if that’s what you’re looking for, or I think, you know, for Netflix, cause to really isn’t the vintage Netflix, so to speak, I do think they’re always looking to be cutting edge. And as the guy said, uh, to be a sonic brand.

Joey Coleman (25:41):
So true. And here’s the thing, listeners, friends, you might be sitting here thinking, all right, guys, what are we supposed to do with this segment? How are we supposed to learn from Netflix’s new symphonic sound cue? Well, here’s a few thoughts. Number one, if you don’t have sound cues in your business, you should consider them in a world where audio is becoming more and more important, whether that’s via voice assistance like Alexa. And I know I just turned her on when I said that or the rising prevalence of podcasts, your brand can and should be thinking more about audio and the sound of your brand. Then maybe you have in the past,

Dan Gingiss (26:20):
I got to interrupt you for a second here. So our listeners may or may not know Joey and I split up the duties of our podcast with not only writing the episodes, but also the kind of behind the scenes thing. And one of the duties that I have is I listened to the episodes before they air. And I am telling you, it would be so easy for me to fast forward through our intro music. I am always humming along with it. And like, you know, speaking on top of the voices because it’s just become, you know, like I get excited when I hear it. And so I, I think that is true of so many things that we don’t even think about how a sound or a jingle or a, or, or some sort of a cue can affect us.

Joey Coleman (27:01):
Yes, absolutely. And let’s be honest again, pull the curtain back a little bit more. We hired a composer to custom compose our music, not only for the show, but for the interstitials between segments and all the segment intros. Ironically enough, my college roommate, Davin Seaman, who’s an amazing musician and composer and keyboard player. We hired him to put something together for us and we’ve intentionally kept the same, you know, general feel to the music. Even as we’ve added new segments from season to season, we always go to him between seasons and we’re like, Hey, we’re going to have two new segment types this season, or we’re going to do this new this season, and he writes new music that fits in the same genre. So there’s regardless of how big or small your brand is, you can make a decision to invest in the sound. The second thing I want to point out is that as your brand develops over time, it’s really important to look at your brand identity elements and make sure they still work well with your current product and service offerings. I was the guy who for many years, spent time designing logos and getting organizations to have a brand style guide. But one of the secrets to a successful brand style guide is that it’s a living, breathing document. And in the same way that Netflix has moved out of the home, into the cinemas, they needed a sonic rebranding. And finally, when you think about how your brand fits with other brands, make sure you’re playing the same type of tune. What I mean by that is a three-second sound. You works for the Netflix login screen in your house – but in a movie theater that THX sound to you that we played earlier in the show is 27 seconds long. You can’t have the standard quote, “are the speakers working” sound to be longer than the sound cue for your feature film? So give it some thought, what’s the sound of your brand and what can you do to get that sound out to your audience?

[SEGMENT INTRO – CROSSOVER SEGMENT – EXPERIENCE POINTS]
Joey Coleman (29:03):
The following is a crossover segment from the new game show that Dan and I have been telling you about – Experience Points – brought to you by our friends at Avtex who also sponsor Experience This, the new game show combines customer experience trivia with lively discussions on how to create remarkable experiences in your business. And along the way, we try to have a lot of fun with our guests contestants. This week, we feature a game called what happened with innovation and marketing expert and all around great guy, Rohit Bhargava, enjoy the segment and see if you can guess what happened

[CROSSOVER SEGMENT – EXPERIENCE POINTS][What Happened with Rohit Bhargava]
Rules Hostess (29:40):
In What Happened?, watch the first half of an experience story. Choose what you think happens next from four possible endings. Answer correctly, for 500 points. If incorrect, you’ll be granted an extra life and the opportunity to answer from the remaining three endings for 250 points,

Joey Coleman (30:01):
Let’s earn some money for Donors Choose, are you ready to get started?

Rohit Bhargava (30:06):
I am ready to get started.

Joey Coleman (30:08):
Let’s do it.

Dan Gingiss (30:09):
All right. This is Nate Brown. He is the Chief Experience Officer of at Officium Labs in Nashville, Tennessee. He’s a CX guy through and through. In fact, he started a group called the CX Innovators and not surprisingly, he had a customer experience story that he wanted to share with us.

Nate Brown (30:28):
Hello there Dan and Joey, Nate Brown here. And I do have an experience for you. I knew quite a bit of photography. And last year I had a lens and a Canon 85 millimeter, 1.2 that I really loved, but I just didn’t need it anymore. It’s an expensive lens. And one that was collecting dust. So I began the process of researching, how can I trade this in and get something that would fit my needs a little bit better, something a little more wide angle and landed, uh, at the site of a major camera retailer based in New York and, and called them up and, uh, got a really nice gentleman there who, uh, offered. Yeah, you could trade that lens in and we’ll be able to get you a new lens. Uh, that is very, very close to what you’re looking for there. Go ahead and send that lens on end my goodness. If I only knew what was about to happen, I would have just kept that darn thing.

Dan Gingiss (31:17):
Okay. So Nate sent his lens into the camera store. What happened next? Is it (a), he receives a new lens along with a handwritten note and a free tripod.

Rohit Bhargava (31:31):
sounds good.

Dan Gingiss (31:32):
(B) he receives a new lens that quickly breaks and then finds out that the lens was a fake. (C) the company keeps his old lens and never sends a new one, or (D) he receives a better lens than he expected. He enters and wins a photography contest with it. What do you think Rohit? What happened to Nate?

Rohit Bhargava (32:03):
I think that he, uh, I’m going to go with C company, keeps the lens and never sends a new one.

Dan Gingiss (32:16):
And tell us why.

Rohit Bhargava (32:18):
Uh, I don’t have much to go on on this one. So this one’s kind of a guess.

Joey Coleman (32:25):
I love the honesty Rohit of a guess – indeed indeed!

Dan Gingiss (32:31):
So what if we told you Rohit that you should guess again, because it isn’t C. So why don’t we use our extra life and choose between A, B and D.

Rohit Bhargava (32:48):
All right. Um, I will go with, I’m going to stay negative on this one and go with B because I chose a lane, you know, so I’m going to stick with the, I think it was a negative experience.

Dan Gingiss (33:09):
Is there anything other than that this company was in New York that makes you think that it would be a negative experience?

Rohit Bhargava (33:15):
Um, no, pretty much the New York thing. It gives it away. I think that was entirely, you know, that was entirely it. I just think that you couldn’t possibly have a good experience going to New York. That must be it. Yeah. That’s it.

Dan Gingiss (33:26):
Sorry to our viewing audience in New York.

Joey Coleman (33:29):
One of the great things about Experience Points ladies and gentlemen, it’s always fun to see the logic and the rationale that our contestants put towards figuring out the game. Rohit – you said B – that Nate received a new lens that quickly broke and then he found out that the lens was a fake. Let’s go back to Nate to see what actually happened.

Nate Brown (33:50):
So conclusion to that story, it was an elaborate manipulation. They did not deliver on the promise that they had made originally had to pay significant money in to get the lens that I had asked for. And finally got the lens after they overcharged me $700 on my credit card had to spend weeks fighting to get my money back, get the lens works for awhile. The lens breaks I call the manufacturer. They, I give them the serial number. It turns out this company had given me a gray market version of the lens that the manufacturer won’t even repair. So now I’m stuck with a broken piece of equipment. I’ve been manipulated. They’ve done nothing to make this right now. It’s, it’s incredible to me. I’ve reported them to the federal trade commission. They’ve been a nightmare for me. I’m going to be a nightmare for them. I hate it. I don’t want it to be this way, but they have certainly earned it.

Dan Gingiss (34:36):
All right,

Rohit Bhargava (34:37):
Victory. You know, those new Yorkers, I got to say, it must be that!

Joey Coleman (34:45):
That extra life paid off row hit. You got it correct. On the second tribe. Wow. What a story, you know, really at the risk of, let’s not bag on New York, right? But let’s talk about the fact that sometimes people can have a preconceived notion about what it’s going to be like to do business with you based on your geographic location, based on what your website looks like, et cetera. Could you talk a little bit about how, you know, a reputation can precede you, uh, depending on, you know, extraneous factors that your prospects, your customers might build into their consideration?

Rohit Bhargava (35:24):
Yeah, I think, well, this part of it’s nothing new. We, we, I think anybody in business knows when you give someone a negative experience, you know, they’re going to have that negative experience and they’re not coming back. I think people underestimate is just how angry people can be and just how vocal they can be about their anger. And you heard it from Nate, uh, where he, he didn’t just say, man, I hate them. I’m never going back. He said, I hate them. And basically I’m going to tell everyone who will possibly listen to me how bad they are. And that’s a viral kind of hate that. We’ve really got to be concerned about anybody in business, because when you screw up and you own up to it and you try and fix it, uh, that person might not come back to you. Okay. But they don’t turn into that vocal hater that tells everyone how crappy you are. They just shut up, which is kind of worth it. If you think about it because not everybody does things perfectly all the time, but to be able to at least get somebody to a point where they can keep their negative experience to themselves is a certain type of victory.

Joey Coleman (36:30):
Absolutely. You know, I think Rohit one of the interesting things is, uh, lots of businesses refer to their negative customer reviews or the people that aren’t interested as detractors. And I think that limits the actual impact. If we think of having, you know, either advocates or detractors, it’s a different conversation than having advocates, detractors, and haters. I agree with you. Nate’s a great guy. He’s a super nice guy. He’s a friend of the show, but you can tell that they went too far and it’s almost like he’s on a mission to kind of bring the dishonesty that he experienced, uh, to bear to the greater public. So people don’t get taken advantage of the same way he did.

Rohit Bhargava (37:13):
Yeah. And you know, I think, I mean, you may have even written about this, like the opposite of love. Isn’t hate it’s indifference. And so like, we don’t usually care until you make us care so much that we actively hate you. And at that point we’re going to do more work. Cause like, look, it’s easier for him to do nothing, right. I mean, he’s not waking up in the morning saying I’d love to devote one hour a day to talking about how much I hate these guys. Like nobody wants to do that, but because his emotion so high, like he’s going to do it whenever he gets a chance to, and appear on a talk show to talk about it. Right.

Dan Gingiss (37:47):
Yeah. And I, one of the things that stands out to me here is, and maybe this is just my values and morals, but I, I can kind of guess that, uh, that you guys share them with me is if you’re gonna choose the path of being dishonest with your customers, you may win that transaction, but you sure as heck are not going to stay in business long and keep customers for a long time. You know, I had, uh, an experience ironically in New York city as well, where I was recording a podcast, probably with Joey, and I had forgotten my microphone. And so I needed to buy a microphone quickly. And so I went to, uh, time square and went into one of those ubiquitous electronic shops. And I found a Sony microphone and it was like a hundred dollars. And it’s just was more than I wanted to spend, but the guy had shown it to me and said, nah it’s too much, I’m okay. And as I was walking out the door, he said, how about 50? And I was like, wow. Okay. So it was right at the a hundred was more than I wanted to spend. I decided at that moment that I was not going to check my phone because I really needed the microphone. So I bought it for 50, got back to my hotel room, looked up the microphone on Amazon $7 and 99 cents. Right. And so I feel like, and then I look at the receipt and stamped on the receipt, no returns. And I’m thinking to myself like, okay, I get it. Maybe you’re preying on tourists or what have you, but this is not a way to run a business, especially today. Whereas you say Rohit, the people have a voice on social media and they’re not afraid to use it when they feel like a company has taken advantage of that.

Rohit Bhargava (39:22):
Yeah, it’s true. It’s true. Um, and I think that people are much more willing to talk about that and feel better when they do.

Joey Coleman (39:30):
You know, I think if we were to roll back the clock in history to when everybody lived in smaller towns or villages, if your product or your service didn’t work, not only did you offend that customer, but because your entire marketplace was just that little town or village, all the other people in the town or village knew about it. And so as a result, I think people try to deliver a better quality product. They tried to be honest with what they were doing and as time went on and cities got bigger and we grew, and we started to have things like Dan’s talking about being a tourist in a city, buying something, companies got to the place where they could take advantage of the fact that there was a bigger world that they could sell to and the likelihood of any one customer really being able to cause them problems was pretty small so they could cut corners and be dishonest. The reality today is though I think with everyone walking around with a phone that has a video camera in it, that they can shoot a testimonial video video, either positive or negative and post it to YouTube or TikToK or LinkedIn, or even the Twitters. Cause I know Dan’s all about the Twitters, uh, you know, wherever you’re posting it, it can go viral and suddenly the entire world knows you’re dishonest. So I think even if we don’t go to the place of morals that you illustrate Dan, which hopefully that’s where the majority of people are. And I imagine, and know all of our great listeners, they’ve Experience Points are, uh, it’s now to the point where you can’t hide anymore, the reality will catch up with you. And boy, if you create haters, they’ve got a lot more power and ability today than at any other time in history.

Dan Gingiss (41:05):
All right, Joey, let’s recap. How did Roe hit do playing? What happened?

Joey Coleman (41:11):
Well in this game, correct answers are worth 500 points. And while Rohit didn’t get it correct on his first try, he used his extra life, any answer to it correctly, which means he earned 250 points. Those points convert into dollars, which means that Rohit earned eight $250 donation to Donors Choose. Congrats, Rohit! Great job!

Rohit Bhargava (41:34):
Thank you.

Dan Gingiss (41:35):
And that concludes this episode of Experience Points. Check out more games with Rohit and our other celebrity contestants at ExperiencePointsGame.com. That site again is ExperiencePointsGame.com. We’ll see you soon for more examples of remarkable customer experiences here at Experience Points presented by Avtex.

Dan Gingiss (42:05):
We hope you enjoyed that sample segment of Experience Points! For more game show episodes, head over to www.ExperiencePointsGame.com or you can visit Avtex’s YouTube channel, or your favorite podcast app. Just search for Experience Points.

[SHOW OUTRO]
Joey Coleman (42:29):
Wow, thanks for joining us for another episode of Experience This!

Dan Gingiss (42:33):
We know there are tons of podcasts to listen, to magazines and books to read, reality TV to watch. We don’t take for granted that you’ve decided to spend some quality time listening to the two of us.

Joey Coleman (42:43):
We hope you enjoyed our discussions, and if you do, we’d love to hear about it. Come on over to ExperienceThisShow.com and let us know what segments you enjoyed, what new segments you’d like to hear. This show is all about experience, and we want you to be part of the Experience This Show!

Dan Gingiss (43:01):
Thanks again for your time, and we’ll see you next week for more…

Joey Coleman (43:04):
Experience.

Dan Gingiss (43:04):
This!